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LOVING It.....was/New Crystalyte Buzzing a Bit??

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  • Danny G.
    Hi Gang, Words just can t describe my excitement over having an electric-human hybrid bike. I just have to tell you all how much I flippin love my E-Cruiser.
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 17, 2006
      Hi Gang,
      Words just can't describe my excitement over having an electric-human hybrid bike.

      I just have to tell you all how much I flippin' love my E-Cruiser. It is so much fun to ride an electric bike. It would be tough to attain this speed or distance unassisted.

      Thank you all for helping me get into this cool hobby/sport/fetish hehehe. But mostly thanks to Danny at Largo Scooters for such a solid product and excellent sales-support. He's a good guy to deal with.

      Cheers,
      Dan--Ft. Lauderdale
      Strangely enough, nobody notices that my bike is electric as I'm buzzing around the block at 25mph without pedalling!

      Richard Papa <papapro1@...> wrote: Good stuff Dan,

      This is also known as the "Shudder" which is fairly common with Crystalyte
      and the WE kits. One thing we determined was some controllers were better
      "Matched" to the motors than others. This is why some are getting the
      slight shudder. Another cause with a similar effect is Voltage Sag as the
      packs cannot take the power. Also, bad connectors can cause this as I have
      experienced with a friends WE kit.

      If it's just a slight shudder and a slight hum then nothing to worry about.
      If it gets worse then it's probably one of the above. You may also notice
      the shudder go if you feather the throttle. Good indication it could be one
      of the above.

      Good luck Al,

      Richard Papa






      ---------------------------------
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    • grr_doh
      Just to set the record straight, that someone & *only* one you would have heard this from is bocadude who has been on a personal Jihad ever since the SR
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 18, 2006
        Just to set the record straight, that someone & *only* one you would
        have heard this from is bocadude who has been on a personal Jihad
        ever since the SR Suntour fork on his TF broke apart. So give it up
        already.

        His assertion that a WCL motor is noisier than the clyte is simply
        not true, based on the postings from wcrider who has driven & owned
        both. He doesn't have any good things to say about TF & even he
        grudgingly concedes this point. It has never stalled for me either
        for that matter.

        Think about it logically. It is self evident that the question of
        this thread would not even have been posted in the first place except
        for the fact that the poster has been spoiled the silent running of
        his WCL motor & is his only baseline reference to compare to.


        BTW, I must be mistaken as I thought you are a moderator.

        Moderator note: Yes Charlie is a moderator. I don't understand what that has to do with anything about this post. Bill (one of the other moderators)

        --- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "chashb" <chblow@...> wrote:
        >
        > "Because my Tidalforce is silent I was afraid something was
        > wrong."
        >
        > Didn't I read where someone suggested that Tidalforce was more
        noisy
        > than Crystalyte? Sounds like a showdown in an acoustical chamber
        with a
        > db meter at 20 paces. LOL
        >
        > Charlie
        >
      • gormanao
        I finally tensioned my spokes, and a lot of the noise I had disappeared. BUT there is still a rattly/rumbly noise as the throttle is applied until (I m
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 23, 2006
          I finally tensioned my spokes, and a lot of the noise I had
          disappeared. BUT there is still a rattly/rumbly noise as the throttle
          is applied until (I'm guessing) the wheel speed catches up with the
          motor speed. This must be the shudder others have described. I'm
          getting better at avoiding it by shifting gears, pedaling and
          feathering the throttle. The loose spoke noise was really more
          irritating.
          Andrew

          -- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "gormanao" <gormanao@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > I've had a similar thing going on with a Wilderness Energy B36, and I
          > think it is caused by slightly loose spokes vibrating. The wheel came
          > well laced, true and usable, but not tensioned as much as I think it
          > should be. Of course I haven't tensioned my spokes yet, so I can't
          > prove it.
          > Andrew
          >
        • jpiperson2002
          ... I ve lost track of whether you have a front or rear mounted motor, but I used to get some noisy vibration with a front mounted hub motor in a regular rim.
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 24, 2006
            --- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "gormanao" <gormanao@...> wrote:
            >
            > I finally tensioned my spokes, and a lot of the noise I had
            > disappeared. BUT there is still a rattly/rumbly noise as the throttle
            > is applied until (I'm guessing) the wheel speed catches up with the
            > motor speed. This must be the shudder others have described. I'm
            > getting better at avoiding it by shifting gears, pedaling and
            > feathering the throttle. The loose spoke noise was really more
            > irritating.
            > Andrew
            >
            > -- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "gormanao" <gormanao@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > I've had a similar thing going on with a Wilderness Energy B36, and I
            > > think it is caused by slightly loose spokes vibrating. The wheel came
            > > well laced, true and usable, but not tensioned as much as I think it
            > > should be. Of course I haven't tensioned my spokes yet, so I can't
            > > prove it.
            > > Andrew
            > >
            >

            I've lost track of whether you have a front or rear mounted motor, but
            I used to get some noisy vibration with a front mounted hub motor in a
            regular rim. Using a double strength rim dampens the vibrations
            considerably and is also safer for carrying the extra weight of the
            motor in the wheel. I've had problems with spokes working loose as
            well, just got some blue locktite (mild adhesive which prevents nuts
            from working loose) yesterday to use when I retighten my spokes this
            weekend. Front motors tend to be noisier than rear mounted motors
            because any vibration is transferred directloy through the handlebars
            to your hands. If you check your power draw with a Braindrain or other
            meter you'll find that the power draw goes up considerably whenever
            you accelerate, especially at low speed if you are not pedalling.
            Whenever the motor hums it's telling you that the power draw has gone
            up, mine might triple from 300Watts at a slow steady speed to
            1000+Watts under acceleration. Complete motor silence only comes when
            the bike (I have a 408 in a 26" wheel) gets going over 10mph at a
            relatively steady speed, hard acceleration always produces some hum at
            any speed, modest acceleration over 10mph with accompanying pedalling
            to keep the power draw from increasing to max cannot be heard by this
            rider.
          • Brian_D_Smith
            Have you considered adding a REAALLY large capacitor to the input of your controller? I have done this with a couple of Golden Motor brushless controllers.
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 24, 2006
              Have you considered adding a REAALLY large capacitor to the input of
              your controller?

              I have done this with a couple of Golden Motor brushless
              controllers.

              What I did was drill out the side plate nearest the input wiring and
              install two 5-way banana jack posts. Then I made a ring-terminal
              wiring harness for the capacitor. This way you can easily try the
              capacitor in and out of the system to do an A/B test. You just have
              to be careful and not plug it in backwards, lots of smoke and noise.

              I was satisfied with the results.

              Also moving to a higher input voltage (more batteries in series) may
              help with the shudder. Its a qhantity of charge near the FETs issue.
              Charge is 1/2 * C * V^2 You get more bang for the buck increasing
              voltage than capacitance but adding a cap is sometimes easier than
              adding voltage.

              If you email me off-list I can take a picture and email it to you.

              Brian





              --- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "gormanao" <gormanao@...> wrote:
              >
              > I finally tensioned my spokes, and a lot of the noise I had
              > disappeared. BUT there is still a rattly/rumbly noise as the
              throttle
              > is applied until (I'm guessing) the wheel speed catches up with the
              > motor speed. This must be the shudder others have described. I'm
              > getting better at avoiding it by shifting gears, pedaling and
              > feathering the throttle. The loose spoke noise was really more
              > irritating.
              > Andrew
              >
              > -- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "gormanao" <gormanao@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I've had a similar thing going on with a Wilderness Energy B36,
              and I
              > > think it is caused by slightly loose spokes vibrating. The
              wheel came
              > > well laced, true and usable, but not tensioned as much as I
              think it
              > > should be. Of course I haven't tensioned my spokes yet, so I
              can't
              > > prove it.
              > > Andrew
              > >
              >
            • Bob McRee
              ... adding a big cap to the input of a speed control can also help your batteries last longer. this is a lesson that has been learned by folks who have massive
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 24, 2006
                Brian_D_Smith wrote:

                > Have you considered adding a REAALLY large capacitor to the input of
                > your controller?
                >
                > I have done this with a couple of Golden Motor brushless
                > controllers.
                >
                > What I did was drill out the side plate nearest the input wiring and
                > install two 5-way banana jack posts. Then I made a ring-terminal
                > wiring harness for the capacitor. This way you can easily try the
                > capacitor in and out of the system to do an A/B test. You just have
                > to be careful and not plug it in backwards, lots of smoke and noise.
                >
                > I was satisfied with the results.
                >
                > Also moving to a higher input voltage (more batteries in series) may
                > help with the shudder. Its a qhantity of charge near the FETs issue.
                > Charge is 1/2 * C * V^2 You get more bang for the buck increasing
                > voltage than capacitance but adding a cap is sometimes easier than
                > adding voltage
                >
                adding a big cap to the input of a speed control can also help your
                batteries last longer. this is a lesson that has been learned by folks
                who have massive amps on their car stereos. the huge momentary current
                drains drawn by these amps damage the plates in the batteries even
                though the average power is not that high. adding a big cap improves
                transient response and lets the battery provide current at a more
                reasonable rate, preventing the huge momentary surge currents that
                deplete the surfaces of the plates.

                -bob
              • Mr. Petard
                ... Like these? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2429610 http://www.ambientweather.com/dbcap1.html
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 24, 2006
                  > Brian_D_Smith wrote:
                  > > Have you considered adding a REAALLY large capacitor to the input of
                  > > your controller?

                  --- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, Bob McRee <bobmcree@...> wrote:
                  > adding a big cap to the input of a speed control can also help your
                  > batteries last longer. this is a lesson that has been learned by
                  > folks who have massive amps on their car stereos.

                  Like these?

                  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2429610
                  http://www.ambientweather.com/dbcap1.html
                  http://www.phoenixgold.com/2004/capacitors.html

                  What is the maximum voltage for these?
                  PhoenixGold.com indicates 20/25V; this is less than my 48V system.

                  How big are these capacitors?
                  AmbientWeather.com indicates 5.50in x 3.50in x 13.00in and 4 lbs; that
                  size would rival my 12 Ahr SLA batteries.

                  Mr. Petard
                • Brian_D_Smith
                  The input caps in most cheap controllers are 200 uF at 50v - 100v. The cap I added is 2000 uF at 450v. It was in my junk box and so it was free to me. You can
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 24, 2006
                    The input caps in most cheap controllers are 200 uF at 50v - 100v.
                    The cap I added is 2000 uF at 450v. It was in my junk box and so it
                    was free to me. You can get 75v 2000uF caps from Digikey. They are
                    inexpensive and easy to install if you have room in the controller
                    box.

                    The car audio caps are 1,000,000 uF or 1F. These are way overkill.
                    They also store enough charge to melt wires if you make a spark. I
                    would stay away from these for an ebike controller.




                    --- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. Petard" <ahsmith13@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > > Brian_D_Smith wrote:
                    > > > Have you considered adding a REAALLY large capacitor to the
                    input of
                    > > > your controller?
                    >
                    > --- In power-assist@yahoogroups.com, Bob McRee <bobmcree@> wrote:
                    > > adding a big cap to the input of a speed control can also help
                    your
                    > > batteries last longer. this is a lesson that has been learned by
                    > > folks who have massive amps on their car stereos.
                    >
                    > Like these?
                    >
                    > http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2429610
                    > http://www.ambientweather.com/dbcap1.html
                    > http://www.phoenixgold.com/2004/capacitors.html
                    >
                    > What is the maximum voltage for these?
                    > PhoenixGold.com indicates 20/25V; this is less than my 48V system.
                    >
                    > How big are these capacitors?
                    > AmbientWeather.com indicates 5.50in x 3.50in x 13.00in and 4 lbs;
                    that
                    > size would rival my 12 Ahr SLA batteries.
                    >
                    > Mr. Petard
                    >
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