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Official Postfix source code repository?

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  • Dāvis Mosāns
    I couldn t find Postfix source code repository, I saw only tarballs. Source control (SCM/VCS) is a MUST have. It s unbelievable that people just work with
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
      I couldn't find Postfix source code repository, I saw only tarballs.
      Source control (SCM/VCS) is a MUST have. It's unbelievable that people just work with tarballs without proper source control. It doesn't matter which you use, but it must be available. Sending patches over email is what people did last century...

      I would suggest using Git, but any other would be fine too like Mercurial, Bazaar or even Subversion. Also I would suggest using GitHub for code hosting, but Bitbucket or Gitorious would also be fine, or you might host it yourself on your own server (such as GitLab).

      Is there any particular reason why there's no source code repository?

      Thanks.
    • lists@rhsoft.net
      disclaimer: i am not the author of postfix, only *my* opinion ... says who? ... it is unbelieve that people coming new here and pissing around in context of
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
        disclaimer: i am not the author of postfix, only *my* opinion

        Am 18.04.2014 17:47, schrieb Dāvis Mosāns:
        > I couldn't find Postfix source code repository, I saw only tarballs.
        > Source control (SCM/VCS) is a MUST have.

        says who?

        > It's unbelievable that people just work with tarballs without
        > proper source control. It doesn't matter which you use, but it
        > must be available

        it is unbelieve that people coming new here and pissing around
        in context of the best maintained and documented software

        you are hardly in the position to say what muste be

        > Sending patches over email is what people did last century...

        so what

        > I would suggest using Git, but any other would be fine too like
        > Mercurial, Bazaar or even Subversion. Also I would suggest
        > using GitHub for code hosting, but Bitbucket or Gitorious would
        > also be fine, or you might host it yourself
        > on your own server (such as GitLab).

        i would suggest that you ask questions first or be quiet
        the postfix author *is* using a VCS but he do not need
        to provide access to you or me

        > Is there any particular reason why there's no source code repository?

        there is one and if you would inform you before shout how postfix
        is maintained and documented you would ask for access instead
        coming in like an elephant and get access or a explaination
        why the author prefers to keep it closed and only release tarballs
      • Jim Reid
        ... It s unbelievable that kids these days see every software development/maintenance task as something that must get crushed under a git-shaped sledgehammer
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
          On 18 Apr 2014, at 16:47, Dāvis Mosāns <davispuh@...> wrote:

          > I couldn't find Postfix source code repository, I saw only tarballs.
          > Source control (SCM/VCS) is a MUST have. It's unbelievable that people just
          > work with tarballs without proper source control.

          It's unbelievable that kids these days see every software development/maintenance task as something that must get crushed under a git-shaped sledgehammer regardless of whether that's the reasonable or sensible thing to do. [Resistance is futile. Your code will be assimilated.] Has it not dawned on you that the reason something like git is not provided might be that it is simply the wrong tool for the job?

          You are of course free to take the tarballs and feed them into the version control repository of your choice. That does not mean everyone else who works on postfix is obliged to work with whatever is your flavour of the month VCS. BTW, what contributions have you actually made to postfix?

          > It doesn't matter which you use, but it must be available.

          Why? The author of postfix gets to choose/control how others commit code. Put simply, it's Wietse's ball and he decides who can play with it and what they are allowed to do with it. You don't. One of the reasons why postfix has remained in good shape for ~20 years is because well-intentioned but clueless people don't get to throw in features or or chase passing fads or ride their personal hobby-horses. The most successful (and vital) open source projects operate in this way too. That's not a coincidence.

          It will be a very sad day when someone is obliged to use git or subversion or... to get access to open source software. For 99%+ of the users, 99%+ of the time, all that's needed is to download a tarball -- kids, ask your dad about FTP -- unpack it and run make. Anything else is unnecessary overkill. That lesson appears to be lost on the next generation.

          > Sending patches over email is what people did last century...

          So what? It ain't broke and therefore doesn't need fixing. Especially by bloatware like git. Tools like that have their place -- projects with a cast of thousands perhaps (monkeys and typewriters spring to mind) -- but IMO postfix is not one of them.
        • Viktor Dukhovni
          ... While the OP is trolling, and will be booted from the list if trolling persists, please don t take the bait and launch into a crusade against your
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
            On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 05:37:26PM +0100, Jim Reid wrote:

            > So what? It ain't broke and therefore doesn't need fixing.
            > Especially by bloatware like git.

            While the OP is trolling, and will be booted from the list if
            trolling persists, please don't take the bait and launch into a
            crusade against your favourite heresy.

            Wietse does not use git, but he may some day. Whether he does or
            does not use git, signed tarballs will for the forseeable future
            continue to be the primary means by which Postfix releases are made
            available.

            --
            Viktor.
          • Wietse Venema
            ... Viktor keeps an unofficial GIT repository which is based on Postfix releases and stuff that he works on himself. I expect that there will be some public
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
              > > I couldn't find Postfix source code repository, I saw only tarballs.
              > > Source control (SCM/VCS) is a MUST have. It's unbelievable that people just
              > > work with tarballs without proper source control.
              >
              > It's unbelievable that kids these days see every software
              > development/maintenance task as something that must get crushed
              > under a git-shaped sledgehammer regardless of whether that's the
              > reasonable or sensible thing to do. [Resistance is futile. Your
              > code will be assimilated.]

              Viktor keeps an unofficial GIT repository which is based on Postfix
              releases and stuff that he works on himself. I expect that there
              will be some public repository that is updated with each release,
              but the public one would not be authoritative. And I would never
              ever want to share any of my code before it is released.

              Wietse
            • Quanah Gibson-Mount
              --On Friday, April 18, 2014 5:51 PM +0000 Viktor Dukhovni ... +1 I really detest the current trend of having no real releases and a lack of tarballs from
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
                --On Friday, April 18, 2014 5:51 PM +0000 Viktor Dukhovni
                <postfix-users@...> wrote:

                > Wietse does not use git, but he may some day. Whether he does or
                > does not use git, signed tarballs will for the forseeable future
                > continue to be the primary means by which Postfix releases are made
                > available.

                +1

                I really detest the current trend of having no real releases and a lack of
                tarballs from various source projects. While openldap has an entirely
                public git repo, which is extremely useful for examinig discrete code
                changes or gathering history, all official releases are and continue to be
                done via tarballs. I.e., I think public source code repos can be extremely
                useful tools, they are not a great way to push official releases of
                software.

                --Quanah


                --

                Quanah Gibson-Mount
                Architect - Server
                Zimbra, Inc.
                --------------------
                Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
              • Quanah Gibson-Mount
                --On Friday, April 18, 2014 1:51 PM -0400 Wietse Venema ... As an aside, I would note that it is possible to do this with SCM systems. I know Howard Chu
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
                  --On Friday, April 18, 2014 1:51 PM -0400 Wietse Venema
                  <wietse@...> wrote:

                  > Viktor keeps an unofficial GIT repository which is based on Postfix
                  > releases and stuff that he works on himself. I expect that there
                  > will be some public repository that is updated with each release,
                  > but the public one would not be authoritative. And I would never
                  > ever want to share any of my code before it is released.

                  As an aside, I would note that it is possible to do this with SCM systems.
                  I know Howard Chu maintains his own clone of the OpenLDAP source that he
                  works from, and then only pushes back into the public repo when he's
                  satisified with the results -- I.e., he only pushes what he feels is ready
                  to be available into the general code repo. It's also useful for testing
                  new strategies and features without affecting mainline.

                  --Quanah

                  --

                  Quanah Gibson-Mount
                  Architect - Server
                  Zimbra, Inc.
                  --------------------
                  Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                • Viktor Dukhovni
                  ... Note, I do not promise a stable history for any of the development branches. I squash commits at will, and delete branches once their features are merged
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
                    On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:51:42PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:

                    > Viktor keeps an unofficial GIT repository which is based on Postfix
                    > releases and stuff that he works on himself.

                    Note, I do not promise a stable history for any of the development
                    branches. I squash commits at will, and delete branches once their
                    features are merged into an official release on the "master" branch
                    or the patch branch of an official release. (Thus the long-term
                    history includes only the official and snapshot releases, not
                    work-in-progress code).

                    My repository is useful for comparing past Postfix releases, enabling
                    one to quickly determine which Postfix release first added or
                    removed some block of code. It is also substantially more compact
                    than a separate copy of each of the ~1000 tarballs representing
                    each of the commits.

                    --
                    Viktor.
                  • Dāvis Mosāns
                    I ve nothing against tarballs and I m not saying that there shouldn t be tarballs. I m also not saying that repository could work as release distribution which
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
                      I've nothing against tarballs and I'm not saying that there shouldn't be tarballs. I'm also not saying that repository could work as release distribution which it's not and I never said so. All I'm saying is that there also should be a source code repository with full commit history so that each code change could be reviewed. Tarballs only provide current source code, but not changesets which are very important. It seems like you're very ignorant and don't know what is right tool for right job. Do you really expect for people diff over 100 tarball releases to find which version introduced some bug or changed something on which you relied? Why do you think I asked for repository? because I was intending to contribute. Linux kernel uses git repository and that works perfectly fine.


                      2014-04-18 19:37 GMT+03:00 Jim Reid <jim@...>:
                      On 18 Apr 2014, at 16:47, Dāvis Mosāns <davispuh@...> wrote:

                      > I couldn't find Postfix source code repository, I saw only tarballs.
                      > Source control (SCM/VCS) is a MUST have. It's unbelievable that people just
                      > work with tarballs without proper source control.

                      It's unbelievable that kids these days see every software development/maintenance task as something that must get crushed under a git-shaped sledgehammer regardless of whether that's the reasonable or sensible thing to do. [Resistance is futile. Your code will be assimilated.] Has it not dawned on you that the reason something like git is not provided might be that it is simply the wrong tool for the job?

                      You are of course free to take the tarballs and feed them into the version control repository of your choice. That does not mean everyone else who works on postfix is obliged to work with whatever is your flavour of the month VCS. BTW, what contributions have you actually made to postfix?

                      > It doesn't matter which you use, but it must be available.

                      Why? The author of postfix gets to choose/control how others commit code. Put simply, it's Wietse's ball and he decides who can play with it and what they are allowed to do with it. You don't. One of the reasons why postfix has remained in good shape for ~20 years is because well-intentioned but clueless people don't get to throw in features or or chase passing fads or ride their personal hobby-horses. The most successful (and vital) open source projects operate in this way too. That's not a coincidence.

                      It will be a very sad day when someone is obliged to use git or subversion or... to get access to open source software. For 99%+ of the users, 99%+ of the time, all that's needed is to download a tarball -- kids, ask your dad about FTP -- unpack it and run make. Anything else is unnecessary overkill. That lesson appears to be lost on the next generation.

                      > Sending patches over email is what people did last century...

                      So what? It ain't broke and therefore doesn't need fixing. Especially by bloatware like git. Tools like that have their place -- projects with a cast of thousands perhaps (monkeys and typewriters spring to mind) -- but IMO postfix is not one of them.



                    • Wietse Venema
                      I m closing this thread: take it off list or be removed. Postfix is not the Linux kernel, and any comparison between the two is not applicable. Wietse
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
                        I'm closing this thread: take it off list or be removed. Postfix
                        is not the Linux kernel, and any comparison between the two is not
                        applicable.

                        Wietse
                      • Dāvis Mosāns
                        That is exactly what I was looking for, just public read-only repository for main/master branch. It looks like it s this https://github.com/vdukhovni/postfix ?
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 18, 2014
                          That is exactly what I was looking for, just public read-only repository for main/master branch. It looks like it's this https://github.com/vdukhovni/postfix ? Only downside is that there's no useful commit messages. So basically have to look at commit individually to see what exactly was changed. At least blame works fine and can see which version changed respective code line. Do you also accept PRs or only way is patches in email?

                          And it's great that public repository is planned. Thanks.


                          2014-04-18 20:37 GMT+03:00 Viktor Dukhovni <postfix-users@...>:
                          On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 12:51:42PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:

                          > Viktor keeps an unofficial GIT repository which is based on Postfix
                          > releases and stuff that he works on himself.

                          Note, I do not promise a stable history for any of the development
                          branches.  I squash commits at will, and delete branches once their
                          features are merged into an official release on the "master" branch
                          or the patch branch of an official release.  (Thus the long-term
                          history includes only the official and snapshot releases, not
                          work-in-progress code).

                          My repository is useful for comparing past Postfix releases, enabling
                          one to quickly determine which Postfix release first added or
                          removed some block of code.  It is also substantially more compact
                          than a separate copy of each of the ~1000 tarballs representing
                          each of the commits.

                          --
                                  Viktor.

                        • Viktor Dukhovni
                          ... Postfix snapshot releases and patch releases make incremental improvements in a mature software system. If you re maintaining private feature branches,
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 21, 2014
                            On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 11:28:42AM +1100, Winston Smith wrote:

                            > Just feeding in tarballs into one's own repo makes incremental
                            > building of one's own distribution somewhat impossible because
                            > the only diff one every gets is from release to release.

                            Postfix snapshot releases and patch releases make incremental
                            improvements in a mature software system. If you're maintaining
                            private feature branches, instead of applying changes in Postfix
                            to your code, apply your changes to new Postfix releases.

                            Sorry, we do not support cherry-picking individual Postfix features.

                            Justifying the Postfix software release process is not a good use
                            of our time. It has worked much better than many a project with
                            a public SCM containing substantially lower quality code.

                            This thread remains closed on and off-list.

                            --
                            Viktor.
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