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Re: Postfix not speaking with amavis?

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  • Wietse Venema
    ... Oops, if the message came from a content filter, there will be a message in the deferred queue that awaits processing by the filter. Wietse
    Message 1 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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      Wietse Venema:
      > Postfix:
      > > The passwd file is world readable.
      > >
      > > The question is, what happens to mail after it is put into the postfix/hold
      > > folder?
      >
      > There is no message in the queue. Postfix NEVER ACCEPTED THE MAIL.

      Oops, if the message came from a content filter, there will be
      a message in the deferred queue that awaits processing by the filter.

      Wietse
    • Postfix
      ... the deferred queue that awaits processing by the filter. ... Thanks, I am misunderstanding how postfix handles mail. I had assumed incoming mail is put
      Message 2 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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        Wietse Venema:
        > Postfix:
        > > The passwd file is world readable.
        > >
        > > The question is, what happens to mail after it is put into the
        > > postfix/hold folder?
        >
        > There is no message in the queue. Postfix NEVER ACCEPTED THE MAIL.

        >Oops, if the message came from a content filter, there will be a message in
        the deferred queue that awaits processing by the filter.

        > Wietse

        Thanks, I am misunderstanding how postfix handles mail. I had assumed
        incoming mail is put into the hold folder, then from there any filtering
        software like amavis or mailscanner would pick it up scan it then pass it
        back to postfix where it would then get put into the other queues.

        I have given up and re-imaged the server, going to try from scratch again. I
        have done a few postfix setups before this with postfix and mailscanner with
        no problems, but this has been my first attempt at using amavis.
        I messed around with the server settings, figure it would be good to start
        over.

        Maybe the problem is I have used the amavis debian packages but then
        compiled postfix from source. I would like to use the latest postfix, but
        maybe I have to stick with the debian package of postfix even though it is
        out of date.
      • Quanah Gibson-Mount
        --On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 3:08 PM -0700 Postfix ... If you re really bored, you could download Zimbra FOSS edition and install it just to look at how
        Message 3 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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          --On Wednesday, May 15, 2013 3:08 PM -0700 Postfix
          <postfix_list@...> wrote:

          > Thanks, I am misunderstanding how postfix handles mail. I had assumed
          > incoming mail is put into the hold folder, then from there any filtering
          > software like amavis or mailscanner would pick it up scan it then pass it
          > back to postfix where it would then get put into the other queues.

          If you're really bored, you could download Zimbra FOSS edition and install
          it just to look at how postfix is configured to talk with Amavis (and SA
          via Amavis).

          --Quanah


          --

          Quanah Gibson-Mount
          Sr. Member of Technical Staff
          Zimbra, Inc
          A Division of VMware, Inc.
          --------------------
          Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
        • Stan Hoeppner
          ... This is not how it works. Postfix/amavisd may communicate via SMTP, LMTP, or through a Unix pipe or inet socket. Amavisd never reads files directly from
          Message 4 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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            On 5/15/2013 5:08 PM, Postfix wrote:

            > Thanks, I am misunderstanding how postfix handles mail. I had assumed
            > incoming mail is put into the hold folder, then from there any filtering
            > software like amavis or mailscanner would pick it up scan it then pass it
            > back to postfix where it would then get put into the other queues.

            This is not how it works. Postfix/amavisd may communicate via SMTP,
            LMTP, or through a Unix pipe or inet socket. Amavisd never reads files
            directly from Postfix queues.

            You are confused because you have previously used Mailscanner, which is
            not supported by Postfix. It is not supported precisely because of the
            way it manipulates files directly in Postfix queue directories instead
            of using a supported Postfix API.
            ...
            > Maybe the problem is I have used the amavis debian packages but then
            > compiled postfix from source. I would like to use the latest postfix, but
            > maybe I have to stick with the debian package of postfix even though it is
            > out of date.

            I think your problem is that you simply haven't learned enough yet and
            have not configured the interfaces properly.

            And your definition of "out of date", your thinking here, is flawed.
            Debian Stable 7 was just released and includes Postfix 2.9.6, which is
            the most recent 2.9 upstream patch level. Only Wietse's current
            upstream stable, is 2.10 patch level 0, is newer. If you'd look at the
            2.10 change log you'd see that you likely don't the few additional new
            features not in 2.9.6. You also likely don't need 80% or more of the
            Postfix features going back to Postfix 2.0.

            You're making incorrect assumptions about the usefulness of software
            based solely on revision numbers, of which you apparently have little or
            no understanding. You must be a very wealthy man, as you most certainly
            buy a new car on Jan 1 of each year, as your current car must be "out of
            date" at that point, i.e. 2012 vs 2013.

            --
            Stan
          • Viktor Dukhovni
            ... [ Editorial comment. ] With Reindl off the list, in part at Stan s suggestion, Stan should try to not pick up too much of the slack... -- Viktor.
            Message 5 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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              On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 06:37:14PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

              > You're making incorrect assumptions about the usefulness of software
              > based solely on revision numbers, of which you apparently have little or
              > no understanding. You must be a very wealthy man, as you most certainly
              > buy a new car on Jan 1 of each year, as your current car must be "out of
              > date" at that point, i.e. 2012 vs 2013.

              [ Editorial comment. ]

              With Reindl off the list, in part at Stan's suggestion, Stan should
              try to not pick up too much of the slack...

              --
              Viktor.
            • Wietse Venema
              ... +1 Keep it friendly, Stan! Wietse
              Message 6 of 19 , May 15, 2013
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                Viktor Dukhovni:
                > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 06:37:14PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
                >
                > > You're making incorrect assumptions about the usefulness of software
                > > based solely on revision numbers, of which you apparently have little or
                > > no understanding. You must be a very wealthy man, as you most certainly
                > > buy a new car on Jan 1 of each year, as your current car must be "out of
                > > date" at that point, i.e. 2012 vs 2013.
                >
                > [ Editorial comment. ]
                >
                > With Reindl off the list, in part at Stan's suggestion, Stan should
                > try to not pick up too much of the slack...

                +1

                Keep it friendly, Stan!

                Wietse
              • Stan Hoeppner
                ... Bah, you re both New Yorkers so you surely must be plenty familiar with sarcasm. Ok, Wietse lives a little farther up state and spends all of his time at
                Message 7 of 19 , May 16, 2013
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                  On 5/15/2013 7:21 PM, Wietse Venema wrote:
                  > Viktor Dukhovni:
                  >> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 06:37:14PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> You're making incorrect assumptions about the usefulness of software
                  >>> based solely on revision numbers, of which you apparently have little or
                  >>> no understanding. You must be a very wealthy man, as you most certainly
                  >>> buy a new car on Jan 1 of each year, as your current car must be "out of
                  >>> date" at that point, i.e. 2012 vs 2013.
                  >>
                  >> [ Editorial comment. ]
                  >>
                  >> With Reindl off the list, in part at Stan's suggestion, Stan should
                  >> try to not pick up too much of the slack...
                  >
                  > +1
                  >
                  > Keep it friendly, Stan!

                  Bah, you're both New Yorkers so you surely must be plenty familiar with
                  sarcasm. Ok, Wietse lives a little farther up state and spends all of
                  his time at home or in the funny shaped IBM building with no windows, so
                  he may not see that much sarcasm. ;) But Viktor you've worked in the
                  city, may still, and you may live there for all I know, so surely you
                  see sarcasm every day. But it's not just part of New York culture, but
                  American culture. It's a powerful literary tool used by hundreds of
                  thousands of publications and people daily.

                  Sure, Reindl used sarcasm, but he also cursed at people and called them
                  stupid, among other things. This was my beef with him. I don't do such
                  things. Lumping me in with Reindl simply for using sarcasm is painting
                  with a very broad brush and simply not kosher.

                  If you want to make it a blanket rule that straight sarcasm is not
                  allowed on the list then I'll abide by that. I think that would be
                  pretty silly, given that sarcasm permeates our society, at least
                  American society. Apparently you two don't watch Leno, Letterman, any
                  late night comics, as sarcasm abounds on such shows, to name only a few.
                  Of course they say it with a smile.

                  If I'd added a winky at the end, would that have prevented all of this?
                  As I'd have said it with a smile? Making it "lighter" and not
                  perceived as being rude?

                  Sheesh...

                  --
                  Stan
                • Wietse Venema
                  ... Stan, Viktor and I were looking from the perspective of the receiver, i.e. the person whose question you replied to. The odds are good that their cultural
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 16, 2013
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                    Stan Hoeppner:
                    > On 5/15/2013 7:21 PM, Wietse Venema wrote:
                    > > Viktor Dukhovni:
                    > >> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 06:37:14PM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>> You're making incorrect assumptions about the usefulness of software
                    > >>> based solely on revision numbers, of which you apparently have little or
                    > >>> no understanding. You must be a very wealthy man, as you most certainly
                    > >>> buy a new car on Jan 1 of each year, as your current car must be "out of
                    > >>> date" at that point, i.e. 2012 vs 2013.
                    > >>
                    > >> [ Editorial comment. ]
                    > >>
                    > >> With Reindl off the list, in part at Stan's suggestion, Stan should
                    > >> try to not pick up too much of the slack...
                    > >
                    > > +1
                    > >
                    > > Keep it friendly, Stan!
                    >
                    > Bah, you're both New Yorkers so you surely must be plenty familiar with
                    > sarcasm. Ok, Wietse lives a little farther up state and spends all of

                    Stan, Viktor and I were looking from the perspective of the receiver,
                    i.e. the person whose question you replied to. The odds are good
                    that their cultural background differs from yours. In fact, the far
                    majority of people do not have English as their primary language.

                    One well-known limitation of email is that it is single-modal. The
                    receiver does not get any hints from voice, face expression or body
                    language that a response is sarcastic or not.

                    So, keep it friendly, and if you must add sarcasm, make it plenty
                    redundantly clear. Recall that a lot of nuance/innuendo/jokes will
                    not come across as most people are not native English speakers.

                    Wietse
                  • Viktor Dukhovni
                    On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 07:27:59AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote: [begin hostility] ... [end hostility] [begin sarcasm] ... [end sarcasm] ... Chill out and keep
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 16, 2013
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                      On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 07:27:59AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

                      [begin hostility]
                      > >>> You're making incorrect assumptions about the usefulness of software
                      > >>> based solely on revision numbers, of which you apparently have little or
                      > >>> no understanding.
                      [end hostility]

                      [begin sarcasm]
                      > >>>You must be a very wealthy man, as you most certainly
                      > >>> buy a new car on Jan 1 of each year, as your current car must be "out of
                      > >>> date" at that point, i.e. 2012 vs 2013.
                      [end sarcasm]

                      > >> [ Editorial comment. ]
                      > >>
                      > >> With Reindl off the list, in part at Stan's suggestion, Stan should
                      > >> try to not pick up too much of the slack...
                      > >
                      > > +1
                      > >
                      > > Keep it friendly, Stan!

                      > Sure, Reindl used sarcasm, but he also cursed at people and called them
                      > stupid, among other things. This was my beef with him. I don't do such
                      > things. Lumping me in with Reindl simply for using sarcasm is painting
                      > with a very broad brush and simply not kosher.

                      Chill out and keep it civil. Thanks.

                      > If you want to make it a blanket rule that straight sarcasm is not
                      > allowed on the list then I'll abide by that.

                      Give it a try, sarcasm on public mailing lists is not terribly useful.

                      > If I'd added a winky at the end, would that have prevented all of this?

                      Probably not. Just think it to yourself, smile if you enjoyed the
                      wit and don't mail it.

                      --
                      Viktor.
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