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Re: misunderstanding INSTALL "vs" compile-time config ? (and MacOSX patch)

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  • ixloran@...
    Huh? ... Well there s ONE thing you said that makes some sense ...
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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      Huh?

      On Sat, Apr 6, 2013, at 11:38 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
      > you missed COMPLETLY what i saied

      Well there's ONE thing you said that makes some sense ...
    • ixloran@...
      Hi Viktor, ... works great! patch -p1
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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        Hi Viktor,

        On Sat, Apr 6, 2013, at 10:58 AM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
        > You can either create a "postdrop" group, or with the patch re-use the
        > existing "maildrop" group, which makes it easier to transition between
        > the system and your custom Postfix, since file permissions will be the
        > same. I recommend the latter:
        >
        > CCARGS='... -DDEF_SGID_GROUP=\"maildrop\"'

        works great!

        patch -p1 < /usr/local/src/postfix.patch
        make tidy
        export CCARGS=' ... -DDEF_SGID_GROUP=\"maildrop\"'
        make -f Makefile.init makefiles
        make

        then wrapping it all up with a 'non-interactive' `make upgrade`

        checkinstall -R --fstrans=no --nodoc --pkgname="postfix-local"
        --pkgversion="2.10.0" make upgrade
        rpm -qlp postfix-local-2.10.0-1.x86_64.rpm

        looks exactly like I compile-time configured it:

        http://pastebin.com/XJBa5QJn

        Will your patch be added to main source tree at any time, or is it
        something I'll need to tweak/modify & apply when I upgrade?

        thanks!
      • Viktor Dukhovni
        ... No need to hammer your point in. There s more than one way to skin this cat. The OP will use whatever is most comfortable for him. Yes, there are
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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          On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 08:38:41PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:

          > > (1) I'm no longer intersted in someone's 'downstream idea' of what
          > > version and how I should configure, build & use postfix
          >
          > what exactly did you not understand in "based on"?

          No need to hammer your point in. There's more than one way to skin
          this cat. The OP will use whatever is most comfortable for him.
          Yes, there are benefits in deploying software as a "package", but
          also drawbacks (the package manager may replace it with an upgrade,
          ...) that one needs to learn how to work around.

          Since the OP is installing into /usr/local, a non-packaged version
          is fine. I would go further and install into:

          /usr/local/postfix/${version}/{etc,sbin,libexec,man,html}/

          with "sendmail", "mailq" and "newaliases" in

          /usr/local/postfix/${version}/sbin/

          and symlinks from /usr/sbin, /usr/bin to the right version. This
          makes it easy to switch between versions and delete stale files.
          For example to build with TLS support:

          #! /bin/sh
          DEST=/usr/local/postfix/2.10.0
          CCARGS='-DUSE_TLS' # + other features
          AUXLIBS="-lssl -lcrypto" # + other libraries
          while read -r name val
          do
          CCARGS="$CCARGS $(printf -- '-D%s=\\"%s\\"' $name $val)"
          done <<EOF
          DEF_COMMAND_DIR $DEST/sbin
          DEF_CONFIG_DIR $DEST/etc
          DEF_DAEMON_DIR $DEST/libexec
          DEF_MAILQ_PATH $DEST/sbin/mailq
          DEF_HTML_DIR $DEST/html
          DEF_MANPAGE_DIR $DEST/man
          DEF_NEWALIAS_PATH $DEST/sbin/newaliases
          DEF_README_DIR $DEST/readme
          DEF_SENDMAIL_PATH $DEST/sbin/sendmail
          DEF_SGID_GROUP maildrop
          EOF
          make -f Makefile.init "CCARGS=$CCARGS" "AUXLIBS=$AUXLIBS" makefiles
          make

          --
          Viktor.
        • Viktor Dukhovni
          ... My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and DEF_SGID_GROUP. There
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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            On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:17:53PM -0700, ixloran@... wrote:

            > Will your patch be added to main source tree at any time, or is it
            > something I'll need to tweak/modify & apply when I upgrade?

            My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally
            equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and
            DEF_SGID_GROUP.

            There are various ways to handle the internals and apply the right
            defaults to MacOSX, so the implementation details may be slightly
            different, but this won't change the behaviour you see.

            --
            Viktor.
          • ixloran@...
            ... Thanks. I ll keep an eye on the Changelogs.
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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              On Sat, Apr 6, 2013, at 12:27 PM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
              > > Will your patch be added to main source tree at any time, or is it
              > > something I'll need to tweak/modify & apply when I upgrade?
              >
              > My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally
              > equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and
              > DEF_SGID_GROUP.
              >
              > There are various ways to handle the internals and apply the right
              > defaults to MacOSX, so the implementation details may be slightly
              > different, but this won't change the behaviour you see.

              Thanks. I'll keep an eye on the Changelogs.
            • Reindl Harald
              ... that s right but I m no longer intersted in someone s downstream idea in context of build your OWN package is in fact the wrong answer
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                Am 06.04.2013 21:22, schrieb Viktor Dukhovni:
                > On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 08:38:41PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
                >
                >>> (1) I'm no longer intersted in someone's 'downstream idea' of what
                >>> version and how I should configure, build & use postfix
                >>
                >> what exactly did you not understand in "based on"?
                >
                > No need to hammer your point in. There's more than one way to skin
                > this cat. The OP will use whatever is most comfortable for him

                that's right

                but "I'm no longer intersted in someone's downstream idea" in
                context of "build your OWN package" is in fact the wrong answer
              • Reindl Harald
                ... adn exatcly that DOES NOT WORK because the package manager ignores the stuff in /usr/local and you hardly can remove MTA dependencies at all which means
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                  Am 06.04.2013 21:22, schrieb Viktor Dukhovni:
                  > Since the OP is installing into /usr/local, a non-packaged version
                  > is fine. I would go further and install into:
                  >
                  > /usr/local/postfix/${version}/{etc,sbin,libexec,man,html}/
                  >
                  > with "sendmail", "mailq" and "newaliases" in
                  >
                  > /usr/local/postfix/${version}/sbin/
                  >
                  > and symlinks from /usr/sbin, /usr/bin to the right version. This
                  > makes it easy to switch between versions and delete stale files.
                  > For example to build with TLS support

                  adn exatcly that DOES NOT WORK because the package manager ignores
                  the stuff in /usr/local and you hardly can remove MTA dependencies
                  at all which means every OS update may randomly overwrite your
                  /usr/sbin/sendmail symlink

                  been there, done that, stopped to mangle this way by learning
                • Wietse Venema
                  ... No override is needed. You can trivially set these at installation time: # make install mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ... # make upgrade mail_owner=foo
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                    Viktor Dukhovni:
                    > On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:17:53PM -0700, ixloran@... wrote:
                    >
                    > > Will your patch be added to main source tree at any time, or is it
                    > > something I'll need to tweak/modify & apply when I upgrade?
                    >
                    > My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally
                    > equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and
                    > DEF_SGID_GROUP.

                    No override is needed.

                    You can trivially set these at installation time:

                    # make install mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...
                    # make upgrade mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...

                    You can even change mail_owner or setgid_group after Postfix
                    is already installed:

                    # postfix set-permissions mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...

                    This *is* documented.

                    Wietse
                  • Wietse Venema
                    ... Also (since this thread mentioned installable packages): make package mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ... All the above work even without pre-existing
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                      Wietse Venema:
                      > Viktor Dukhovni:
                      > > On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 12:17:53PM -0700, ixloran@... wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Will your patch be added to main source tree at any time, or is it
                      > > > something I'll need to tweak/modify & apply when I upgrade?
                      > >
                      > > My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally
                      > > equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and
                      > > DEF_SGID_GROUP.
                      >
                      > No override is needed.
                      >
                      > You can trivially set these at installation time:
                      >
                      > # make install mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...
                      > # make upgrade mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...

                      Also (since this thread mentioned installable packages):

                      make package mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...

                      All the above work even without pre-existing main.cf file.

                      > You can even change mail_owner or setgid_group after Postfix
                      > is already installed:
                      >
                      > # postfix set-permissions mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...
                      >
                      > This *is* documented.

                      This, of course does require a pre-existing main.cf file.

                      The only build-time parameter override that's needed is for
                      config_directory. All other parameters can be specified at
                      /upgrade/package time. They are configurable for a reason.

                      Wietse
                    • Viktor Dukhovni
                      ... Yes, this is an option. It applies to all parameters other than config_directory , and yet we have compile-time overrides for most installation parameters
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                        On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 04:30:59PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:

                        > > My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally
                        > > equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and
                        > > DEF_SGID_GROUP.
                        >
                        > No override is needed.
                        >
                        > You can trivially set these at installation time:
                        >
                        > # make install mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...
                        > # make upgrade mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...

                        Yes, this is an option.

                        It applies to all parameters other than "config_directory", and yet
                        we have compile-time overrides for most installation parameters to
                        enable more natural defaults. The "mail_owner" and "setgid_group"
                        installation parameters are included in the list of parameters
                        explicitly defined in the target main.cf by "postfix-install". When
                        I build a test version to run out of /var/tmp/postfix, creat an
                        empty main.cf file and run "make upgrade" I get:

                        /var/tmp/postfix/etc/main.cf:
                        readme_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/readme
                        sample_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/etc
                        sendmail_path = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin/sendmail
                        html_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/html
                        setgid_group = _postdrop
                        command_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin
                        manpage_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/man
                        daemon_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/libexec
                        newaliases_path = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin/newaliases
                        mailq_path = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin/mailq
                        queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
                        mail_owner = _postfix
                        data_directory = /var/lib/postfix

                        in which all the installation parameters aside from mail_owner and
                        setgid_group allow compile-time overrides.

                        I think it would be more consistent to also allow mail_owner and
                        setgid_group to have appropriate compile-time defaults for the
                        target platform whether installing locally, or building packages.

                        That said, the OP can of course make do with run-time overrides
                        if that's the only choice.

                        --
                        Viktor.
                      • Viktor Dukhovni
                        ... This is not a big deal either way. I neglected to mention upthread that when I did install multiple versions of Postfix each rooted in their own tree
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                          On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 09:01:54PM +0000, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:

                          > I think it would be more consistent to also allow mail_owner and
                          > setgid_group to have appropriate compile-time defaults for the
                          > target platform whether installing locally, or building packages.
                          >
                          > That said, the OP can of course make do with run-time overrides
                          > if that's the only choice.

                          This is not a big deal either way. I neglected to mention upthread
                          that when I did install multiple versions of Postfix each rooted
                          in their own tree (often in AFS) the compile-time config_directory
                          was in /etc/postfix not the version-specific directory:

                          -DDEF_CONFIG_DIR=\"/etc/postfix\"

                          There was however also a version-specific .../etc/ directory in
                          AFS, which contained stock files created by the package installer
                          (so I also used command-line overrides:

                          postfix-install \
                          config_directory=/some/afs/path/etc \
                          queue_directory=/some/afs/path/spool \
                          data_directory=/some/afs/path/data ...

                          when installing into AFS, since that was not an installation onto
                          the specific system from which I happened to push content into AFS).

                          This was not the typical Postfix via O/S packages use-case, rather
                          Postfix was delivered once into AFS for use by thousands of systems,
                          and a boot-time shell-script would select the correct version for
                          a given machine, and build a suitable main.cf/master.cf, ...

                          --
                          Viktor.
                        • Wietse Venema
                          ... Perhaps some feel that the ./configure approach of customizing settings at build time is more natural than customizing them at or after installation
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 6, 2013
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                            Viktor Dukhovni:
                            > On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 04:30:59PM -0400, Wietse Venema wrote:
                            >
                            > > > My best guess is that Wietse will likely adopt something functionally
                            > > > equivalent wrt the compile-time override for DEF_MAIL_OWNER and
                            > > > DEF_SGID_GROUP.
                            > >
                            > > No override is needed.
                            > >
                            > > You can trivially set these at installation time:
                            > >
                            > > # make install mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...
                            > > # make upgrade mail_owner=foo setgid_group=bar ...
                            >
                            > Yes, this is an option.
                            >
                            > It applies to all parameters other than "config_directory", and yet
                            > we have compile-time overrides for most installation parameters to
                            > enable more natural defaults. The "mail_owner" and "setgid_group"
                            > installation parameters are included in the list of parameters
                            > explicitly defined in the target main.cf by "postfix-install". When

                            Perhaps some feel that the ./configure approach of customizing
                            settings at build time is more "natural" than customizing them
                            at or after installation time. I am not convinced that the latter
                            is an inferior approach that one has to "make do" with.

                            I'm sure that there are more worthy Postfix topics to bitch about.

                            Wietse

                            > I build a test version to run out of /var/tmp/postfix, creat an
                            > empty main.cf file and run "make upgrade" I get:
                            >
                            > /var/tmp/postfix/etc/main.cf:
                            > readme_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/readme
                            > sample_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/etc
                            > sendmail_path = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin/sendmail
                            > html_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/html
                            > setgid_group = _postdrop
                            > command_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin
                            > manpage_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/man
                            > daemon_directory = /var/tmp/postfix/libexec
                            > newaliases_path = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin/newaliases
                            > mailq_path = /var/tmp/postfix/sbin/mailq
                            > queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
                            > mail_owner = _postfix
                            > data_directory = /var/lib/postfix
                            >
                            > in which all the installation parameters aside from mail_owner and
                            > setgid_group allow compile-time overrides.
                            >
                            > I think it would be more consistent to also allow mail_owner and
                            > setgid_group to have appropriate compile-time defaults for the
                            > target platform whether installing locally, or building packages.
                            >
                            > That said, the OP can of course make do with run-time overrides
                            > if that's the only choice.
                            >
                            > --
                            > Viktor.
                            >
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