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Re: Public free (libre) mailbox hosting service for everybody!

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  • M. Fioretti
    ... ??? Anatoly, the list you are asking for is in one the links I had already sent to you:
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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      On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 11:51:10 AM +0200, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:

      > Hi Marco (and recipients),
      >
      > I read the articles and I'd like everybody to have a look too. Focus
      > thoughts on technology before everything else: Can we setup mail service
      > which is easy enough to maintain (enough to be reliable) and easy enough
      > to use, even for non-technical users who use Gmail and Micro$oft
      > Outlook?
      >
      > If someone who's familoar with mail software can write some kind of
      > plan, or at least a list of tools needed for a mail server, I'll be
      > thankful.

      ??? Anatoly, the list you are asking for is in one the links I had already
      sent to you:

      http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/wanted-virtual-personal-email-servers/

      Marco
    • אנטולי קרסנר
      Sorry, I missed that list... Two options are being examined: 1. Start a new server (I ll need your help here because I never worked with servers) 2. Use the
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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        Sorry, I missed that list...

        Two options are being examined:

        1. Start a new server (I'll need your help here because I never worked
        with servers)

        2. Use the MyKolab service. It saves all the hard work, but it's still
        in beta stage and it's going to cost money to use it. So I'm trying to
        get funding so that a basic mailbox service is available for no cost
        (unless you donate to the funds supplier, which would be very nice)

        Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
        student) to setup and maintain a mail server, so if it depends on me -
        it would take a few years at least... so I rely on MyKolab.

        Other mail services exist (e.g. gandi.net uses RoundCube), proving a
        practical usable solution exists.

        If anyone wants to start a new service independent of any company like
        Kolab Systems - you're welcome. I'll help you with pleasure if there's
        anything I can do. Just contact me by e-mail :-)

        SUMMARY OF CURRENT STATUS: waiting to see if we can get funding /
        waiting to see if someone can and wants to start a server

        NOTE: Starting a server doesn't mean you pay everything by yourself: A
        proof of a working service beta is enough to show people and get
        funding. Many open-source and free-software support organizations exist,
        which are non-profit and work using donations. A Free (libre) mail
        server is the perfect project for them to invest in (i.e. fund).

        I'll update when more news/responses arrive.

        - Anatoly Krasner

        On ה', 2013-02-28 at 15:55 +0100, M. Fioretti wrote:
        > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 11:51:10 AM +0200, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
        >
        > > Hi Marco (and recipients),
        > >
        > > I read the articles and I'd like everybody to have a look too. Focus
        > > thoughts on technology before everything else: Can we setup mail service
        > > which is easy enough to maintain (enough to be reliable) and easy enough
        > > to use, even for non-technical users who use Gmail and Micro$oft
        > > Outlook?
        > >
        > > If someone who's familoar with mail software can write some kind of
        > > plan, or at least a list of tools needed for a mail server, I'll be
        > > thankful.
        >
        > ??? Anatoly, the list you are asking for is in one the links I had already
        > sent to you:
        >
        > http://freesoftware.zona-m.net/wanted-virtual-personal-email-servers/
        >
        > Marco
      • Reindl Harald
        ... and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have the time because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot of time, especially if you try to
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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          Am 28.02.2013 16:30, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
          > Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
          > student) to setup and maintain a mail server

          and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have
          the time because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot
          of time, especially if you try to open it for everybody because
          you can guess how many idiots you get as users which only
          abuse your service with spam and misuse

          as always: you get what you pay for
        • אנטולי קרסנר
          You pay nothing to Google but get an excellent mailbox. Not libre, but it does the job. Many people volunteer for free software. Somehow they find time. I
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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            You pay nothing to Google but get an excellent mailbox. Not libre, but
            it does the job. Many people volunteer for free software. Somehow they
            find time. I realize a reliable server needs people to work on it
            full-time, it's not just a little web application you write in 10
            minutes.

            But that's why I'm trying to get funding. If expenses can be covered,
            that solves the problem.

            You're right, there's no magic solution.

            It's not simple, but possible. And look at MyKolab. There you go, it's a
            company which plans to launch a libre mailbox service! Yes, users will
            have to pay money. Yes, I'm trying to get the project funded so that
            people can get exposed to free software and software freedom, and
            migrate from GMail, at no cost.

            Like I said, I'll update when there's new information.

            On ה', 2013-02-28 at 16:35 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
            >
            > Am 28.02.2013 16:30, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
            > > Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
            > > student) to setup and maintain a mail server
            >
            > and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have
            > the time because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot
            > of time, especially if you try to open it for everybody because
            > you can guess how many idiots you get as users which only
            > abuse your service with spam and misuse
            >
            > as always: you get what you pay for
            >
          • Deeztek.com Support
            ... If you are looking for a free email service that respects your privacy built on top of open source software, we certainly offer something like that. It s
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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              On 2/27/2013 4:11 PM, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
              > Hello e-mail software developers and users!
              >
              > I'd like to ask all of you a question. And of course hear relevant
              > opinion.
              >
              > I've been using free software happily for a few years, and I found
              > free/open source alternatives for many popular proprietary tools such as
              > Facebook, Dropbox, Micro$oft Windows & Office, Youtube, Skype and many
              > many others. Some of the alternatives are probably known to some of you,
              > while others are still unknown to many.
              >
              > But I couldn't find a replacement to mailbox hosting. I'm using a Gmail
              > mailbox and I hate it. So many free and open source mail servers and I
              > still use Gmail, a closed-source service (which also probably tracks all
              > my data, including Google searches I do, and uses it for all kinds of
              > statistics and advertising, but that's another issue). So I asked
              > myself, why is there no mailbox hosting service which respects user
              > freedom?
              >
              > I sent an e-mail to the Free Software Foundation, and got a suggestion
              > to ask all of you: do you know any free (libre) mail server out there?
              > If you do, please inform me, and the whole free software community,
              > developers and users.
              >
              > I couldn't find any. If nobody else finds any either, the plan is to
              > start a new server. There are so many server tools and programs, like
              > the ones you use and develop. It's just like hosting a Git repository or
              > videos of pictures for the masses. We can do it with e-mail too.
              >
              > Q: Why don't I start my own personal server?
              > A: I'm a programmer and I can do it - with some effort, but I can. The
              > problem is not me. The problem is that all the non-programmer and
              > non-technical users can't. And they shouldn't. We tech people can, and
              > should, run such servers for everybody. For all users who want their
              > basic freedoms respected.
              >
              > Another question to tech people: I'm not an expert in e-mail software,
              > so I'm not really sure setting up a server is as easy as all other
              > online services we get, such as Diaspora (facebook replacement),
              > MediaGoblin (Youtube replacement), Gitorious (git repo hosting). Is
              > there a technical issue preventing people from running a mail server, or
              > it's just a matter of having enough money to run it, and the necessary
              > technical skills (which many of you probably have).
              >
              > If it's possible, we'll do it. Also, if users had to pay for such a
              > service, it would be okay. I don't mind paying for my free software
              > stack. I'd actually find it a way to contribute back to the people and
              > projects which deserve it. The point is not money; such a service can
              > get funds. The point if FREEDOM.
              >
              > Waiting for response and opinions from you, my fellow free software
              > community members,
              > Anatoly Krasner
              > Free software enthusiast/activist
              > Israel
              >
              >
              If you are looking for a free email service that respects your privacy
              built on top of open source software, we certainly offer something like
              that. It's built on top of postfix,courier, egroupware and we offer 5GB
              mailboxes, Secure IMAP, Secure POP3, Secure SMTP, calendar, tasks and
              contacts. We guarantee not to share or sell your private information to
              anyone for any reason unless of course we are presented with a court
              order requiring us to do so :) Heck, we don't even serve ads. We are on
              the initial stages of rolling it out (out website is still under
              construction but the e-mail hosting works fine) but you are more than
              welcome to try it out if you like:

              https://www.deeztek.com:449/deeztek_free_mail_signup.cfm

              Thanks


              --
            • James Seymour
              Isn t this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list? Regards, Jim -- Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam filtering. If you reply to
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?

                Regards,
                Jim
                --
                Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam
                filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is
                rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my
                web form at <http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php>.
              • אנטולי קרסנר
                No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail tools). Otherwise,
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                  No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
                  users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail
                  tools). Otherwise, how could I reach everybody? Believe me, I carefully
                  chose the mailing lists before I sent anything.

                  The goal is to get people to use a freedom-respecting mail service, not
                  filling their mailbox with spam :)

                  Hopefully, people who use free-software tools are interested in the
                  issues discussed...

                  - Anatoly Krasner

                  On ה', 2013-02-28 at 11:19 -0500, James Seymour wrote:
                  > Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Jim
                • Reindl Harald
                  the point is that this list is for TECHNICAL support of postfix itself, so it is for the admins which are installing, configureing and maintaining postfix
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                    the point is that this list is for TECHNICAL support
                    of postfix itself, so it is for the admins which are
                    installing, configureing and maintaining postfix
                    servers, most of them are admins for business

                    Am 28.02.2013 17:51, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
                    > No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
                    > users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail
                    > tools). Otherwise, how could I reach everybody? Believe me, I carefully
                    > chose the mailing lists before I sent anything.
                    >
                    > The goal is to get people to use a freedom-respecting mail service, not
                    > filling their mailbox with spam :)
                    >
                    > Hopefully, people who use free-software tools are interested in the
                    > issues discussed...
                    >
                    > - Anatoly Krasner
                    >
                    > On ה', 2013-02-28 at 11:19 -0500, James Seymour wrote:
                    >> Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?
                  • James Seymour
                    On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:51:15 +0200 ... The mailing list I thought was supposed to be about Postfix, or at least vaguely Postfix-related, issues. By your logic:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                      On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:51:15 +0200
                      אנטולי קרסנר <tombackton@...> wrote:

                      > No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
                      > users ...

                      The mailing list I thought was supposed to be about Postfix, or at
                      least vaguely Postfix-related, issues. By your logic: If I want to
                      interact with all Postfix users on the subject of motorcycle repair,
                      then it would be on-topic, because it's only Postfix users with whom I
                      wish to discuss motorcycle repair?

                      Regards,
                      Jim
                      --
                      Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam
                      filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is
                      rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my
                      web form at <http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php>.
                    • M. Fioretti
                      MANDATORY DISCLAIMER: - I think this is at least partly on topic here because it s (also) about promoting postfix for free-as-in-freedom , responsible email
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                        MANDATORY DISCLAIMER:

                        - I think this is at least partly on topic here because it's (also)
                        about promoting postfix for "free-as-in-freedom", responsible email
                        usage,

                        - but personally, I don't need any of what follows. I already built
                        nexaima.net to do it for me, and it's meant to stay that way, that
                        is for me only

                        On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 16:35:08 PM +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
                        >
                        > Am 28.02.2013 16:30, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
                        > > Persoanlly, I don't have time, knowledge or money (I'm a university
                        > > student) to setup and maintain a mail server
                        >
                        > and the people who have the knowledge and money do not have the time
                        > because maintain a RELIEABLE mailserver costs a lot of time,
                        > especially if you try to open it for everybody because you can guess
                        > how many idiots you get as users which only abuse your service with
                        > spam and misuse

                        Anatoly will speak for himself, but the proposal in _my_ own posts is
                        quite different from what you outline here.

                        What I proposed is a VPS package, just as the ones _already "sold" by
                        many hosting providers, that unlike those packages is not a bare-bone
                        linux distro, but is preconfigured with SMTP/Imap server etc... in
                        order to:

                        1) accept incoming email only for one domain and set of users
                        2) relay email only for THAT domain and set of users

                        The owner of every "package" would only be responsible for the abuses
                        of his own users. The hosting provider may impose bandwidth limits in
                        advance. And 1 and 2 would be configurable by web interface.
                        Basically, this is exactly the SAME thing many hosting providers
                        already offer, just packaged in a way that it is much, much easier to
                        migrate the whole thing to another server, in any moment, without
                        reconfiguring everything from scratch.

                        As to "who would fund development of this bundle": I guess the same
                        people who "fund" Centos, Debian, Postfix and lots of other software,
                        in the same way, for the same reasons. If there's money to be made
                        (more or less indirectly) in hosting VPS server for WWW applications,
                        there is also, IMO, in doing the same thing for email.

                        Marco
                      • John Peach
                        On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:00:58 -0500 ... +1
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                          On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:00:58 -0500
                          James Seymour <jseymour@...> wrote:

                          > On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 18:51:15 +0200
                          > אנטולי קרסנר <tombackton@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
                          > > users ...
                          >
                          > The mailing list I thought was supposed to be about Postfix, or at
                          > least vaguely Postfix-related, issues. By your logic: If I want to
                          > interact with all Postfix users on the subject of motorcycle repair,
                          > then it would be on-topic, because it's only Postfix users with whom I
                          > wish to discuss motorcycle repair?

                          +1
                        • Robert Schetterer
                          ... Hi Anatoly, i like your idea, mmy meaning as you massive crossposted, you should have all info you need now There are people willing to help you, but you
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 28, 2013
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                            Am 28.02.2013 17:51, schrieb אנטולי קרסנר:
                            > No, the mailing list is a legitimate way to connect with all postfix
                            > users (I also sent mail to mailing lists of other free-software mail
                            > tools). Otherwise, how could I reach everybody? Believe me, I carefully
                            > chose the mailing lists before I sent anything.
                            >
                            > The goal is to get people to use a freedom-respecting mail service, not
                            > filling their mailbox with spam :)
                            >
                            > Hopefully, people who use free-software tools are interested in the
                            > issues discussed...
                            >
                            > - Anatoly Krasner
                            >
                            > On ה', 2013-02-28 at 11:19 -0500, James Seymour wrote:
                            >> Isn't this *thoroughly* off-topic for this mailing list?
                            >>
                            >> Regards,
                            >> Jim
                            >
                            >

                            Hi Anatoly, i like your idea, mmy meaning
                            as you massive crossposted, you should have all info you need now

                            There are people willing to help you, but you should have learned
                            massive mail services are expensive to host for logical reasons.

                            Go now offlist contact ,and show some i.e finance plan at interested
                            people etc.
                            Lists are typical for solving tec stuff ( here postfix ), maybe do some
                            blog for more issuses you want to discuss


                            Best Regards
                            MfG Robert Schetterer

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