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Re: forward the bounce message to Reply-To

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  • Reindl Harald
    ... NO, NO AND NO SMTP works with envelopes and not with headers and there are a million reasons to do this - if i send a message with a reply-to header i
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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      Am 26.02.2013 22:00, schrieb Florin Andrei:
      > Sending out messages through a Postfix server. Delivery is refused for whatever reason (e.g. recipient does not
      > exist), and then a bounce is sent by Postfix to a local inbox on that server, as a failure notification.
      >
      > I'd like to forward that bounce to whatever address is in the Reply-To field of the original message. This should
      > apply only to bounces delivered to this particular inbox.
      >
      > Sounds like a procmail job, but if it's doable in Postfix alone I'd like to take that route since it's less
      > resource-intensive.

      NO, NO AND NO

      SMTP works with envelopes and not with headers and there
      are a million reasons to do this - if i send a message
      with a reply-to header i expect that i get answers from
      HUMAN persons on this address and not bounces

      if whatever server sends me bounces to the reply-to-address
      i consider this server simply as broken

      example:

      * web-application
      * html form
      * you enter your email
      * the app sends the message to the woner with reply-to
      * NEVER EVER the mailserver is allowed to send bounces to
      the reply-to in errors-cases because you need only ONE bad
      guy smelling this which fills in random addresses to flood
      them with bounces

      don't do break SMTP careless - never!
    • Florin Andrei
      ... Hold on a second. This is not general-purpose email, it s automatically generated business stuff, normally not intended for human consumption. Twisting the
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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        On 02/26/2013 01:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
        >
        > NO, NO AND NO
        >
        > SMTP works with envelopes and not with headers and there
        > are a million reasons to do this - if i send a message
        > with a reply-to header i expect that i get answers from
        > HUMAN persons on this address and not bounces
        >
        > if whatever server sends me bounces to the reply-to-address
        > i consider this server simply as broken

        Hold on a second.

        This is not general-purpose email, it's automatically generated business
        stuff, normally not intended for human consumption. Twisting the rules
        here a little bit would save a lot of effort in different parts of the code.

        I do not intend to mess with regular email. No regular email is being
        sent through these machines.

        --
        Florin Andrei
        http://florin.myip.org/
      • Reindl Harald
        ... so what set the envelope to whatever RCPT which sould reveive bounces and use From/Reply-To for anything not SMTP relevant and you are done - no single
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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          Am 26.02.2013 22:17, schrieb Florin Andrei:
          > On 02/26/2013 01:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
          >>
          >> NO, NO AND NO
          >>
          >> SMTP works with envelopes and not with headers and there
          >> are a million reasons to do this - if i send a message
          >> with a reply-to header i expect that i get answers from
          >> HUMAN persons on this address and not bounces
          >>
          >> if whatever server sends me bounces to the reply-to-address
          >> i consider this server simply as broken
          >
          > Hold on a second.
          >
          > This is not general-purpose email, it's automatically generated business stuff, normally not intended for human
          > consumption. Twisting the rules here a little bit would save a lot of effort in different parts of the code.

          so what

          set the envelope to whatever RCPT which sould reveive bounces
          and use From/Reply-To for anything not SMTP relevant and you
          are done - no single need to mangle anything

          * the RCPT does not see the envelope-sender in his client
          * he replies to the address in the From or Reply-To
          * bounces are going to the envelope as SMTP specifies it
        • Wietse Venema
          ... No. It is sent to the SMTP envelope sender as required by RFC 5321. To send bounces elsewhere use the proper envelope address. One option is to use VERP
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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            Florin Andrei:
            > Sending out messages through a Postfix server. Delivery is refused for
            > whatever reason (e.g. recipient does not exist), and then a bounce is
            > sent by Postfix to a local inbox on that server, as a failure notification.

            No. It is sent to the SMTP envelope sender as required by RFC 5321.
            To send bounces elsewhere use the proper envelope address. One
            option is to use VERP (per-recipient return address).

            Wietse
          • Florin Andrei
            ... Right, and the envelope sender matches the local inbox, which is why the bounce is sent there after all. *After* that, I want the bounce forwarded to the
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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              On 02/26/2013 01:48 PM, Wietse Venema wrote:
              > Florin Andrei:
              >> Sending out messages through a Postfix server. Delivery is refused for
              >> whatever reason (e.g. recipient does not exist), and then a bounce is
              >> sent by Postfix to a local inbox on that server, as a failure notification.
              >
              > No. It is sent to the SMTP envelope sender as required by RFC 5321.
              > To send bounces elsewhere use the proper envelope address. One
              > option is to use VERP (per-recipient return address).

              Right, and the envelope sender matches the local inbox, which is why the
              bounce is sent there after all.

              *After* that, I want the bounce forwarded to the Reply-To address(es).

              --
              Florin Andrei
              http://florin.myip.org/
            • Reindl Harald
              ... and why do you not change the envelope in the application which is generating the messages instead try to violate RCF s which will not be supported on this
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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                Am 27.02.2013 00:10, schrieb Florin Andrei:
                > On 02/26/2013 01:48 PM, Wietse Venema wrote:
                >> Florin Andrei:
                >>> Sending out messages through a Postfix server. Delivery is refused for
                >>> whatever reason (e.g. recipient does not exist), and then a bounce is
                >>> sent by Postfix to a local inbox on that server, as a failure notification.
                >>
                >> No. It is sent to the SMTP envelope sender as required by RFC 5321.
                >> To send bounces elsewhere use the proper envelope address. One
                >> option is to use VERP (per-recipient return address).
                >
                > Right, and the envelope sender matches the local inbox, which is why the bounce is sent there after all.
                > *After* that, I want the bounce forwarded to the Reply-To address(es)

                and why do you not change the envelope in the application
                which is generating the messages instead try to violate
                RCF's which will not be supported on this list?
              • Wietse Venema
                ... If you set the proper envelope sender address (VERP or otherwise), then you don t have to muck with Reply-To. Wietse
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 26, 2013
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                  Florin Andrei:
                  > On 02/26/2013 01:48 PM, Wietse Venema wrote:
                  > > Florin Andrei:
                  > >> Sending out messages through a Postfix server. Delivery is refused for
                  > >> whatever reason (e.g. recipient does not exist), and then a bounce is
                  > >> sent by Postfix to a local inbox on that server, as a failure notification.
                  > >
                  > > No. It is sent to the SMTP envelope sender as required by RFC 5321.
                  > > To send bounces elsewhere use the proper envelope address. One
                  > > option is to use VERP (per-recipient return address).
                  >
                  > Right, and the envelope sender matches the local inbox, which is why the
                  > bounce is sent there after all.
                  >
                  > *After* that, I want the bounce forwarded to the Reply-To address(es).

                  If you set the proper envelope sender address (VERP or otherwise),
                  then you don't have to muck with Reply-To.

                  Wietse
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