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Re: Gmail as Relayhost

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  • Mikael Bak
    ... Is you ISP relayhost service bad? ... I m not sure it s possible. I think you need to use gmail.com as from email addresses in order to use their SMTP.
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 13, 2013
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      On 02/13/2013 01:14 PM, Dominique wrote:
      > Hi,
      >
      > I am looking at using gmail as a relayhost in our current server setup
      > ubuntu12.04/postfix/cyrus instead of using the ISP relayhost.
      >

      Is you ISP relayhost service bad?


      > I have it working, but the outgoing email address is replaced by the
      > gmail address (from the authentication info) - things that did not
      > happen when using the ISP.
      >
      > How can I fix that ?
      >

      I'm not sure it's possible. I think you need to use gmail.com as from
      email addresses in order to use their SMTP.

      Solution: use your ISP relayhost or buy the service from someone else.


      > Thanks,
      >
      > Dominique
      >
      >

      Mikael
    • Dominique
      ... It bounces mail randomly, mostly hotmail hence not reliable. ... From another answer it does not seem possible. ... I ll look into that option.
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 13, 2013
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        On 13/02/2013 13:32, Mikael Bak wrote:
        > On 02/13/2013 01:14 PM, Dominique wrote:
        >> Hi,
        >>
        >> I am looking at using gmail as a relayhost in our current server setup
        >> ubuntu12.04/postfix/cyrus instead of using the ISP relayhost.
        >>
        > Is you ISP relayhost service bad?

        It bounces mail randomly, mostly hotmail hence not reliable.

        >
        >
        >> I have it working, but the outgoing email address is replaced by the
        >> gmail address (from the authentication info) - things that did not
        >> happen when using the ISP.
        >>
        >> How can I fix that ?
        >>
        > I'm not sure it's possible. I think you need to use gmail.com as from
        > email addresses in order to use their SMTP.

        From another answer it does not seem possible.

        > Solution: use your ISP relayhost or buy the service from someone else.

        I'll look into that option.

        >
        >
        >> Thanks,
        >>
        >> Dominique
        >>
        >>
        > Mikael
        >
        >
        >
      • Dominique
        ... Thanks for the info. I ll look at alternatives. Dominique
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 13, 2013
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          On 13/02/2013 13:19, Reindl Harald wrote:
          >
          > Am 13.02.2013 13:14, schrieb Dominique:
          >> I am looking at using gmail as a relayhost in our current server setup ubuntu12.04/postfix/cyrus instead of using
          >> the ISP relayhost.
          >>
          >> I have it working, but the outgoing email address is replaced by the gmail address (from the authentication info) -
          >> things that did not happen when using the ISP
          >>
          >> How can I fix that?
          > no - this is the decision of gmail which is right
          >
          > think about stupid people using a sender with a domain which has
          > SPF records and gmail as realy and gmail would lose reputation
          > because they are not in the SPF list
          >
          > one principle in e-mail is NEVER allow sender addresses for which
          > you would not receive incoming mail, the one with the wrong config
          > in fact is the ISP allowing blibdly any sender-domain
          >
          >
          Thanks for the info. I'll look at alternatives.

          Dominique
        • Noel Jones
          ... Yes, they do that. ... A few choices... - Don t use a relayhost, deliver mail directly. This requires you have a static IP address with proper FCrDNS
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 13, 2013
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            On 2/13/2013 6:14 AM, Dominique wrote:
            > Hi,
            >
            > I am looking at using gmail as a relayhost in our current server
            > setup ubuntu12.04/postfix/cyrus instead of using the ISP relayhost.
            >
            > I have it working, but the outgoing email address is replaced by the
            > gmail address (from the authentication info) - things that did not
            > happen when using the ISP.

            Yes, they do that.


            >
            > How can I fix that ?

            A few choices...

            - Don't use a relayhost, deliver mail directly. This requires you
            have a static IP address with proper FCrDNS entries, which will
            require cooperation from your ISP and may cost some extra, depending
            on your current service agreement.

            - If you only have a handful of addresses, you can sign up for a
            free google apps account with your own domain name. That will allow
            you to relay through google. You are not required to use google as
            your MX; you can continue to use your own server. If you have too
            many for the free service, you might consider paying.

            - Use some third-party relayhost service, such as dyndns. This will
            not be free, but shouldn't cost very much. If you have more than a
            couple dozen email addresses, this will be cheaper than a google
            apps account.



            -- Noel Jones
          • Mikael Bak
            On 02/13/2013 03:24 PM, Noel Jones wrote: [snip] ... [snip] Too late for that! Starting on December 6, 2012, Google will no longer offer new accounts for the
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 13, 2013
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              On 02/13/2013 03:24 PM, Noel Jones wrote:
              [snip]
              >
              > - If you only have a handful of addresses, you can sign up for a
              > free google apps account with your own domain name. That will allow
              > you to relay through google. You are not required to use google as
              > your MX; you can continue to use your own server. If you have too
              > many for the free service, you might consider paying.
              >
              [snip]

              Too late for that!

              "Starting on December 6, 2012, Google will no longer offer new accounts
              for the free edition of Google Apps."

              http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2855120
            • Noel Jones
              ... Doh!
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 13, 2013
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                On 2/13/2013 8:45 AM, Mikael Bak wrote:
                > On 02/13/2013 03:24 PM, Noel Jones wrote:
                > [snip]
                >>
                >> - If you only have a handful of addresses, you can sign up for a
                >> free google apps account with your own domain name. That will allow
                >> you to relay through google. You are not required to use google as
                >> your MX; you can continue to use your own server. If you have too
                >> many for the free service, you might consider paying.
                >>
                > [snip]
                >
                > Too late for that!
                >
                > "Starting on December 6, 2012, Google will no longer offer new accounts
                > for the free edition of Google Apps."
                >
                > http://support.google.com/a/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2855120
                >
                >


                Doh!
              • Dominique
                On 02/13/2013 03:24 PM, Noel Jones wrote: [snip] A few choices... - Don t use a relayhost, deliver mail directly. This requires you have a static IP address
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 14, 2013
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                  On 02/13/2013 03:24 PM, Noel Jones wrote:
                  [snip]
                  A few choices...

                  - Don't use a relayhost, deliver mail directly. This requires you have a
                  static IP address with proper FCrDNS entries, which will require
                  cooperation from your ISP and may cost some extra, depending on your
                  current service agreement.

                  - If you only have a handful of addresses, you can sign up for a free
                  google apps account with your own domain name. That will allow you to
                  relay through google. You are not required to use google as your MX; you
                  can continue to use your own server. If you have too many for the free
                  service, you might consider paying.

                  - Use some third-party relayhost service, such as dyndns. This will not
                  be free, but shouldn't cost very much. If you have more than a couple
                  dozen email addresses, this will be cheaper than a google apps account.

                  -- Noel Jones
                  [snip]

                  I finally went with dyndns. Low cost for the volume we have and easy to
                  setup.
                  But since the price is volume based I was thinking of splitting the
                  outgoing trafficbetween my ISP and dym.com

                  I thought of using relayhost to my ISP by default and use fallback_relay
                  when the ISP failed. However the documentation of fallback_relay
                  mentions only that it kicks in when then main relay fails. In my case I
                  want to use it when it bounces the mail for the wrong reason (reason why
                  I went with dyn.com in the first place):

                  Feb 4 14:20:57 www postfix/smtp[6592]: 6CF7EA41F89:
                  to=<servicios@...>, relay=smtp.movistar.es[213.4.149.228]:25,
                  delay=3.4, delays=0.15/0.01/0.26/3, dsn=5.2.0, status=bounced (host
                  smtp.movistar.es[213.4.149.228] said: 552 5.2.0 wDHP1k00B3cN3cx1hDHPt5
                  internal error ??. 6007 (in reply to end of DATA command))

                  Would it work ?

                  Dominique
                • Noel Jones
                  ... No, fallback_relay is for when the preferred destination is unreachable. When the primary (incorrectly) rejects your mail, your options are somewhat
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 14, 2013
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                    On 2/14/2013 6:23 AM, Dominique wrote:
                    > On 02/13/2013 03:24 PM, Noel Jones wrote:
                    > [snip]
                    > - Use some third-party relayhost service, such as dyndns. This will
                    > not be free, but shouldn't cost very much. If you have more than a
                    > couple dozen email addresses, this will be cheaper than a google
                    > apps account.
                    >
                    > -- Noel Jones
                    > [snip]
                    >
                    > I finally went with dyndns. Low cost for the volume we have and easy
                    > to setup.
                    > But since the price is volume based I was thinking of splitting the
                    > outgoing trafficbetween my ISP and dym.com
                    >
                    > I thought of using relayhost to my ISP by default and use
                    > fallback_relay when the ISP failed. However the documentation of
                    > fallback_relay mentions only that it kicks in when then main relay
                    > fails. In my case I want to use it when it bounces the mail for the
                    > wrong reason (reason why I went with dyn.com in the first place):
                    >
                    > Feb 4 14:20:57 www postfix/smtp[6592]: 6CF7EA41F89:
                    > to=<servicios@...>,
                    > relay=smtp.movistar.es[213.4.149.228]:25, delay=3.4,
                    > delays=0.15/0.01/0.26/3, dsn=5.2.0, status=bounced (host
                    > smtp.movistar.es[213.4.149.228] said: 552 5.2.0
                    > wDHP1k00B3cN3cx1hDHPt5 internal error ??. 6007 (in reply to end of
                    > DATA command))
                    >
                    > Would it work ?

                    No, fallback_relay is for when the preferred destination is
                    unreachable. When the primary (incorrectly) rejects your mail, your
                    options are somewhat limited.

                    One ugly-hack workaround is to add soft_bounce=yes to the master.cf
                    smtp transport entry, which will transform the 5xx reject into a 4xx
                    retry, and hope the relay will accept the message on the next try.
                    This can cause the unwanted side effect that if a message is
                    persistently undeliverable it will hang around in your queue for
                    $maximal_queue_lifetime (default 5 days).

                    #master.cf existing smtp transport entry
                    smtp unix - - n - - smtp
                    -o soft_bounce=yes

                    Hmmm... Now that I think about it, the soft_bounce setting should
                    trigger a fallback_relay delivery attempt. Give it a whirl.


                    And complain loudly to the ISP when the service you're paying for
                    isn't working.



                    -- Noel Jones
                  • /dev/rob0
                    ... snip ... It s seriously broken if it is giving 5xx rejections for its own internal errors! Granted, that might not be the actual reason for rejection -- it
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 14, 2013
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                      On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 08:29:06AM -0600, Noel Jones wrote:
                      > On 2/14/2013 6:23 AM, Dominique wrote:
                      > > Feb 4 14:20:57 www postfix/smtp[6592]: 6CF7EA41F89:
                      > > to=<servicios@...>,
                      > > relay=smtp.movistar.es[213.4.149.228]:25, delay=3.4,
                      > > delays=0.15/0.01/0.26/3, dsn=5.2.0, status=bounced (host
                      > > smtp.movistar.es[213.4.149.228] said: 552 5.2.0
                      > > wDHP1k00B3cN3cx1hDHPt5 internal error ??. 6007 (in reply to
                      > > end of DATA command))
                      snip

                      > And complain loudly to the ISP when the service you're paying
                      > for isn't working.

                      It's seriously broken if it is giving 5xx rejections for its own
                      internal errors!

                      Granted, that might not be the actual reason for rejection -- it
                      could be that the internal error was encountered while retrieving
                      rejection messages from a database. Still: don't pay good money for
                      bad service.
                      --
                      http://rob0.nodns4.us/ -- system administration and consulting
                      Offlist GMX mail is seen only if "/dev/rob0" is in the Subject:
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