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Re: Archiving mails based on subject - Was: Re: sometimes_bcc?

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  • Marcio Merlone
    ... Yes, it was already. ... There is milter-bcc, commercial license. Found one and another for archiving purposes, badly documented and apparently not active
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
      Em 07-02-2013 11:19, Noel Jones escreveu:
      Regardless of how you state the problem, it should already be clear that postfix does not have native capability to do selective BCC based on the subject.
      Yes, it was already.

      You might be able to find a milter that can do this; I haven't looked.
      There is milter-bcc, commercial license. Found one and another for archiving purposes, badly documented and apparently not active anymore.

       Your only sure bet is to have postfix BCC everything and use a sieve script after delivery to discard the unwanted messages.
      I have only a couple hundred users, and one ongoing project with such need. But that solution doesn't scale well. This probably will become a standard for oncoming projects. Besides my small scale, consider engineers love to use SMTP as FTP, attaching big AutoCAD files up to 30MB. Consider a hundred folks working on a dozen different projects doing it. On a small busy box.

      [thinking out loud -- amavisd-new has some archiving features built-in. Maybe it can be convinced to trigger on the Subject. Probably worth looking into.]
      I understood postfix could not do it natively, that is the kind of advice I was hoping to get, sucking other's experience. :)

      Thank you very much Noel.

      --
      Marcio Merlone
    • Robert Schetterer
      ... hi, look https://www.milter.org/milters under Archiving you may find an archive milter with additional features Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer -- [*]
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
        Am 07.02.2013 14:38, schrieb Marcio Merlone:
        > Em 07-02-2013 11:19, Noel Jones escreveu:
        >> Regardless of how you state the problem, it should already be clear
        >> that postfix does not have native capability to do selective BCC based
        >> on the subject.
        > Yes, it was already.
        >
        >> You might be able to find a milter that can do this; I haven't looked.
        > There is milter-bcc, commercial license. Found one and another for
        > archiving purposes, badly documented and apparently not active anymore.
        >
        >> Your only sure bet is to have postfix BCC everything and use a sieve
        >> script after delivery to discard the unwanted messages.
        > I have only a couple hundred users, and one ongoing project with such
        > need. But that solution doesn't scale well. This probably will become a
        > standard for oncoming projects. Besides my small scale, consider
        > engineers love to use SMTP as FTP, attaching big AutoCAD files up to
        > 30MB. Consider a hundred folks working on a dozen different projects
        > doing it. On a small busy box.
        >
        >> [thinking out loud -- amavisd-new has some archiving features
        >> built-in. Maybe it can be convinced to trigger on the Subject.
        >> Probably worth looking into.]
        > I understood postfix could not do it natively, that is the kind of
        > advice I was hoping to get, sucking other's experience. :)
        >
        > Thank you very much Noel.
        >
        > --
        > Marcio Merlone

        hi, look

        https://www.milter.org/milters
        under Archiving you may find an archive milter with additional features


        Best Regards
        MfG Robert Schetterer

        --
        [*] sys4 AG

        http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64
        Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München

        Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263
        Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer
        Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
      • Ralf Hildebrandt
        ... Another option would be to archive everything, and then discard the unwanted stuff. Admittedly not very elegant, but at least it s easy to implement! --
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
          * Robert Schetterer <rs@...>:
          > Am 07.02.2013 14:38, schrieb Marcio Merlone:
          > > Em 07-02-2013 11:19, Noel Jones escreveu:
          > >> Regardless of how you state the problem, it should already be clear
          > >> that postfix does not have native capability to do selective BCC based
          > >> on the subject.
          > > Yes, it was already.

          Another option would be to archive everything, and then discard the
          unwanted stuff. Admittedly not very elegant, but at least it's easy to
          implement!

          --
          [*] sys4 AG

          http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64
          Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München

          Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263
          Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer
          Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
        • Michael Storz
          ... How about using a smtp_header_checks with FILTER action which routes such emails to another postfix instance which will then bcc all emails? -- Michael
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
            Am 2013-02-07 14:19, schrieb Noel Jones:
            > On 2/7/2013 6:14 AM, Marcio Merlone wrote:
            >> it must be transparent, based on subject.
            >>
            >> So, to work on incoming and outgoing mails regardless of rcpts it
            >> has to be implemented on postifx. Can someone advice me on how can I
            >> solve this?
            >
            > Regardless of how you state the problem, it should already be clear
            > that postfix does not have native capability to do selective BCC
            > based on the subject. Adding such a feature to the postfix core
            > would require non-trivial redesign and won't happen anytime soon.
            >
            > You might be able to find a milter that can do this; I haven't
            > looked. You might be able to modify an existing proxy, such as
            > amavisd-new, to do this; that will take some work and an unknown
            > amount of time.
            >
            > Your only sure bet is to have postfix BCC everything and use a sieve
            > script after delivery to discard the unwanted messages.
            >
            > [thinking out loud -- amavisd-new has some archiving features
            > built-in. Maybe it can be convinced to trigger on the Subject.
            > Probably worth looking into.]
            >
            >
            >
            > -- Noel Jones

            How about using a smtp_header_checks with FILTER action which routes
            such emails to another postfix instance which will then bcc all emails?

            --
            Michael
          • Noel Jones
            ... Nice thought. smtp_header_checks can t change the destination, but you could use FILTER with regular header_checks. This could be made to work, but
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
              On 2/7/2013 8:29 AM, Michael Storz wrote:
              >
              > How about using a smtp_header_checks with FILTER action which routes
              > such emails to another postfix instance which will then bcc all emails?

              Nice thought. smtp_header_checks can't change the destination, but
              you could use FILTER with regular header_checks. This could be made
              to work, but doesn't seem like a very good solution because of the
              complex mail routing involved. I think using amavisd-new is the
              most promising idea.


              -- Noel Jones
            • Noel Jones
              ... This could still scale reasonably well if you BCC everything to one project-archive user and use sieve to sort the different projects into individual
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
                On 2/7/2013 7:38 AM, Marcio Merlone wrote:
                > Em 07-02-2013 11:19, Noel Jones escreveu:
                >> Your only sure bet is to have postfix BCC everything and use a
                >> sieve script after delivery to discard the unwanted messages.

                > I have only a couple hundred users, and one ongoing project with
                > such need. But that solution doesn't scale well. This probably will
                > become a standard for oncoming projects. Besides my small scale,
                > consider engineers love to use SMTP as FTP, attaching big AutoCAD
                > files up to 30MB. Consider a hundred folks working on a dozen
                > different projects doing it. On a small busy box.

                This could still scale reasonably well if you BCC everything to one
                project-archive user and use sieve to sort the different projects
                into individual mailboxes, discarding anything without a project
                tag. It might even be possible to convince sieve to create project
                mailboxes automatically so you don't have to touch it every time a
                new project comes up!

                (sounds like what you really need is a project management system
                that handles all communications, and not use email directly. I
                suppose you're trying to do this with postfix because existing
                solutions are either too costly, suck, or both.)


                -- Noel Jones
              • Marcio Merlone
                ... The first idea was one mailbox per project, but we can rethink that.... ... Bingo! :) We do need to keep email archives, but not just email. We already
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
                  Em 07-02-2013 13:08, Noel Jones escreveu:
                  > On 2/7/2013 7:38 AM, Marcio Merlone wrote:
                  >> I have only a couple hundred users, and one ongoing project with
                  >> such need. But that solution doesn't scale well. This probably will
                  >> become a standard for oncoming projects. Besides my small scale,
                  >> consider engineers love to use SMTP as FTP, attaching big AutoCAD
                  >> files up to 30MB. Consider a hundred folks working on a dozen
                  >> different projects doing it. On a small busy box.
                  > This could still scale reasonably well if you BCC everything to one
                  > project-archive user and use sieve to sort the different projects
                  > into individual mailboxes, discarding anything without a project
                  > tag. It might even be possible to convince sieve to create project
                  > mailboxes automatically so you don't have to touch it every time a
                  > new project comes up!
                  The first idea was one mailbox per project, but we can rethink that....

                  > (sounds like what you really need is a project management system
                  > that handles all communications, and not use email directly. I
                  > suppose you're trying to do this with postfix because existing
                  > solutions are either too costly, suck, or both.)
                  Bingo! :)
                  We do need to keep email archives, but not just email. We already handle
                  other media with other individual solutions. I am trying to adjust our
                  existing structure to new needs. If no other solution, will have to turn
                  to paid solutions, like SharePoint or whatever, even though I'd like to
                  stick to OSS.

                  --
                  Marcio Merlone
                • Robert Schetterer
                  ... hi Noel, what about using a separate bcc transport to archive domain with smtp_header_checks pcre if subject REDIRECT user@domain all other DISCARD ? Best
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
                    Am 07.02.2013 15:55, schrieb Noel Jones:
                    > On 2/7/2013 8:29 AM, Michael Storz wrote:
                    >>
                    >> How about using a smtp_header_checks with FILTER action which routes
                    >> such emails to another postfix instance which will then bcc all emails?
                    >
                    > Nice thought. smtp_header_checks can't change the destination, but
                    > you could use FILTER with regular header_checks. This could be made
                    > to work, but doesn't seem like a very good solution because of the
                    > complex mail routing involved. I think using amavisd-new is the
                    > most promising idea.
                    >
                    >
                    > -- Noel Jones
                    >

                    hi Noel, what about using a separate bcc transport to archive domain with
                    smtp_header_checks pcre if subject REDIRECT user@domain
                    all other DISCARD ?


                    Best Regards
                    MfG Robert Schetterer

                    --
                    [*] sys4 AG

                    http://sys4.de, +49 (89) 30 90 46 64
                    Franziskanerstraße 15, 81669 München

                    Sitz der Gesellschaft: München, Amtsgericht München: HRB 199263
                    Vorstand: Patrick Ben Koetter, Axel von der Ohe, Marc Schiffbauer
                    Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Joerg Heidrich
                  • Noel Jones
                    ... smtp_header_checks can t change the destination, so no REDIRECT and no DISCARD. I suppose you could BCC everything to a separate postfix instance
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 7, 2013
                      On 2/7/2013 10:12 AM, Robert Schetterer wrote:
                      > Am 07.02.2013 15:55, schrieb Noel Jones:
                      >> On 2/7/2013 8:29 AM, Michael Storz wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>> How about using a smtp_header_checks with FILTER action which routes
                      >>> such emails to another postfix instance which will then bcc all emails?
                      >>
                      >> Nice thought. smtp_header_checks can't change the destination, but
                      >> you could use FILTER with regular header_checks. This could be made
                      >> to work, but doesn't seem like a very good solution because of the
                      >> complex mail routing involved. I think using amavisd-new is the
                      >> most promising idea.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> -- Noel Jones
                      >>
                      >
                      > hi Noel, what about using a separate bcc transport to archive domain with
                      > smtp_header_checks pcre if subject REDIRECT user@domain
                      > all other DISCARD ?
                      >

                      smtp_header_checks can't change the destination, so no REDIRECT and
                      no DISCARD.

                      I suppose you could BCC everything to a separate postfix instance
                      (transport table entry for the bcc recipient that points to a
                      separate instance) and use header_checks in the second postfix to
                      DISCARD non-matching subjects. Mail without a Subject: would not be
                      discarded; header_checks can't test for missing headers. This might
                      work, but I'd be concerned about mail loops.

                      -- Noel Jones
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