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Understanding master.cf pickup daemon parameters

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  • Robert Moskowitz
    I have read the man page and http://www.postfix.org/BUILTIN_FILTER_README.html, but don t think I got the why of all of it yet. A couple howtos I have been
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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      I have read the man page and
      http://www.postfix.org/BUILTIN_FILTER_README.html, but don't think I got
      the why of all of it yet.

      A couple howtos I have been using as guidance have the following content
      for master.cf

      pickup fifo n - n 60 1 pickup
      -o content_filter=
      -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks


      I will be using Amavisd-new, ClamAV, and SpamAssassin for content
      filtering. There are lots of other lines scattered around that are
      specific to these filtering tools. I think I am adding these lines to
      limit what pickup is doing as there will be other tools that will do
      more? Is that correct?

      Thank you.
    • Wietse Venema
      ... This is an opportunity to improve the world, by pointing out where the documentation is incomplete or where it presents conflicting information. ... You
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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        Robert Moskowitz:
        > I have read the man page and
        > http://www.postfix.org/BUILTIN_FILTER_README.html, but don't think I got
        > the why of all of it yet.

        This is an opportunity to improve the world, by pointing out where
        the documentation is incomplete or where it presents conflicting
        information.

        > A couple howtos I have been using as guidance have the following content
        > for master.cf

        You want to use amavisd-new which uses SMTP. The pickup service
        example is for a different filter integration approach.

        Wietse
      • Robert Moskowitz
        ... I have been building up a list of stuff to put into a report that I will provide somewhere. I do hope that I will improve the world . some. ... I DID
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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          On 01/09/2013 10:21 AM, Wietse Venema wrote:
          > Robert Moskowitz:
          >> I have read the man page and
          >> http://www.postfix.org/BUILTIN_FILTER_README.html, but don't think I got
          >> the why of all of it yet.
          > This is an opportunity to improve the world, by pointing out where
          > the documentation is incomplete or where it presents conflicting
          > information.

          I have been building up a list of 'stuff' to put into a report that I
          will provide somewhere. I do hope that I will 'improve the world'. some.

          >
          >> A couple howtos I have been using as guidance have the following content
          >> for master.cf
          > You want to use amavisd-new which uses SMTP. The pickup service
          > example is for a different filter integration approach.

          I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
          Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service for
          these?

          Thank you.
        • Viktor Dukhovni
          ... When using advanced content filters with SMTP, the pickup(8) service is not used. Avoid the pickup(8) service when processing remote mail, its purpose is
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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            On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 11:29:31AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

            > I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
            > Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
            > for these?

            When using advanced content filters with SMTP, the pickup(8) service
            is not used. Avoid the pickup(8) service when processing remote
            mail, its purpose is local mail submission, and while it can
            be abused (via sendmail(1)) to filter mail, this has many drawbacks.

            --
            Viktor.
          • Robert Moskowitz
            ... Simply not used, so can be ignored? Or do I have to comment out this service? ... Since I am doing this on Centos, I have been reading:
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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              On 01/09/2013 01:13 PM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
              > On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 11:29:31AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
              >
              >> I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
              >> Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
              >> for these?
              > When using advanced content filters with SMTP, the pickup(8) service
              > is not used.

              Simply not used, so can be ignored? Or do I have to comment out this
              service?

              > Avoid the pickup(8) service when processing remote
              > mail, its purpose is local mail submission, and while it can
              > be abused (via sendmail(1)) to filter mail, this has many drawbacks.
              >

              Since I am doing this on Centos, I have been reading:

              http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Amavisd

              which does not mention pickup daemon at all.
            • Noel Jones
              ... The amavisd-new INSTALL and the README-postfix give detailed information. Please report any omissions to the amavisd-new support channel. The pickup
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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                On 1/9/2013 10:29 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

                > I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
                > Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
                > for these?
                >
                > Thank you.
                >
                >


                The amavisd-new INSTALL and the README-postfix give detailed
                information. Please report any omissions to the amavisd-new support
                channel.

                The pickup service is not involved in this setup and needs no
                changes, so it's not mentioned.

                Don't confuse "not involved" with "not needed"; postfix still needs
                the pickup service to submit local mail.

                It's easy to get confused when you read 15 different how-to
                documents covering different products. Find one and stick with it.



                -- Noel Jones
              • Wietse Venema
                ... As documented in FILTER_README, advanced content filters (of which amavisd-new is a common example) do not use the pickup service for content filter
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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                  Robert Moskowitz:
                  >
                  > On 01/09/2013 01:13 PM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
                  > > On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 11:29:31AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
                  > >> Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
                  > >> for these?
                  > > When using advanced content filters with SMTP, the pickup(8) service
                  > > is not used.
                  >
                  > Simply not used, so can be ignored? Or do I have to comment out this
                  > service?

                  As documented in FILTER_README, advanced content filters (of which
                  amavisd-new is a common example) do not use the pickup service for
                  content filter integration.

                  That does not imply that you can safely comment out the pickup
                  service. It merely implies that the pickup service won't be used
                  by the amavisd-new content filter.

                  Wietse
                • Robert Moskowitz
                  ... Will do. ... Got it. Thanks. ... I HAVE tried to stick with one, but it has errors that I have had to contend with (or was really for earlier versions
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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                    On 01/09/2013 02:15 PM, Noel Jones wrote:
                    > On 1/9/2013 10:29 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
                    >
                    >> I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
                    >> Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
                    >> for these?
                    >>
                    >> Thank you.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    > The amavisd-new INSTALL and the README-postfix give detailed
                    > information. Please report any omissions to the amavisd-new support
                    > channel.

                    Will do.

                    > The pickup service is not involved in this setup and needs no
                    > changes, so it's not mentioned.

                    Got it. Thanks.

                    > Don't confuse "not involved" with "not needed"; postfix still needs
                    > the pickup service to submit local mail.
                    >
                    > It's easy to get confused when you read 15 different how-to
                    > documents covering different products. Find one and stick with it.

                    I HAVE tried to stick with one, but it has errors that I have had to
                    contend with (or was really for earlier versions thus no longer
                    completely right), and has a different anti-stuff setup. So I am having
                    to 'unlace' some of those pieces as I work with a different how-to that
                    is just on anti-stuff..

                    I made 'good' notes, and have reinstalled Centos and trying again.
                    Noticing things not right, so my notes were not right. So I will get
                    through it again at some point, then I will reinstall again and see if I
                    can get to a working system. If so, then I have everything documented
                    and can start on the production build.
                  • Robert Moskowitz
                    ... Getting it. Thanks.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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                      On 01/09/2013 02:20 PM, Wietse Venema wrote:
                      > Robert Moskowitz:
                      >> On 01/09/2013 01:13 PM, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
                      >>> On Wed, Jan 09, 2013 at 11:29:31AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
                      >>>
                      >>>> I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
                      >>>> Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
                      >>>> for these?
                      >>> When using advanced content filters with SMTP, the pickup(8) service
                      >>> is not used.
                      >> Simply not used, so can be ignored? Or do I have to comment out this
                      >> service?
                      > As documented in FILTER_README, advanced content filters (of which
                      > amavisd-new is a common example) do not use the pickup service for
                      > content filter integration.
                      >
                      > That does not imply that you can safely comment out the pickup
                      > service. It merely implies that the pickup service won't be used
                      > by the amavisd-new content filter.

                      Getting it. Thanks.
                    • mouss
                      ... the pickup service is used when you use the sendmail command to submit mail (instead of using smtp). many system programs (cron, logwatch ...) use the
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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                        Le 09/01/2013 14:34, Robert Moskowitz a écrit :
                        > I have read the man page and
                        > http://www.postfix.org/BUILTIN_FILTER_README.html, but don't think I
                        > got the why of all of it yet.
                        >
                        > A couple howtos I have been using as guidance have the following
                        > content for master.cf
                        >
                        > pickup fifo n - n 60 1 pickup
                        > -o content_filter=
                        > -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks
                        >
                        >
                        > I will be using Amavisd-new, ClamAV, and SpamAssassin for content
                        > filtering. There are lots of other lines scattered around that are
                        > specific to these filtering tools. I think I am adding these lines to
                        > limit what pickup is doing as there will be other tools that will do
                        > more? Is that correct?
                        >
                        > Thank you.
                        >
                        >

                        the pickup service is used when you use the sendmail command to submit
                        mail (instead of using smtp).
                        many system programs (cron, logwatch ...) use the sendmail command to
                        send mail to root and other accounts. and here:

                        1) such programs assume a "no error" sendmail. in short, they won't
                        accept a "421 try later" etc. so unless the world gets on fire, the
                        sendmail command is supposed to take responsbility of the message and do
                        whatever to get it delivered. the submitter won't manage a queue or
                        retry etc.
                        that's wat the pickup service is for. it'll retry if it can't pass the
                        message to another "party". and if delivery is not possible, it'll try
                        to send an error message (a bounce).

                        2) some programs will send spam reports (think of a log parser...) which
                        do contain spammy words etc. you wouldn't want these to be blocked by a
                        content filter.

                        3) after all, this is "outbound" mail. so standard spam filters aren't
                        good at this game. you cannot use RBLs, and other reputation things. on
                        the other hand, if you see junk you can take action. so why care of
                        content filtering...
                      • Robert Moskowitz
                        ... Thank you for the excellent bit of education.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 9, 2013
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                          On 01/09/2013 04:10 PM, mouss wrote:
                          > Le 09/01/2013 14:34, Robert Moskowitz a écrit :
                          >> I have read the man page and
                          >> http://www.postfix.org/BUILTIN_FILTER_README.html, but don't think I
                          >> got the why of all of it yet.
                          >>
                          >> A couple howtos I have been using as guidance have the following
                          >> content for master.cf
                          >>
                          >> pickup fifo n - n 60 1 pickup
                          >> -o content_filter=
                          >> -o receive_override_options=no_header_body_checks
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> I will be using Amavisd-new, ClamAV, and SpamAssassin for content
                          >> filtering. There are lots of other lines scattered around that are
                          >> specific to these filtering tools. I think I am adding these lines to
                          >> limit what pickup is doing as there will be other tools that will do
                          >> more? Is that correct?
                          >>
                          >> Thank you.
                          >>
                          >>
                          > the pickup service is used when you use the sendmail command to submit
                          > mail (instead of using smtp).
                          > many system programs (cron, logwatch ...) use the sendmail command to
                          > send mail to root and other accounts. and here:
                          >
                          > 1) such programs assume a "no error" sendmail. in short, they won't
                          > accept a "421 try later" etc. so unless the world gets on fire, the
                          > sendmail command is supposed to take responsbility of the message and do
                          > whatever to get it delivered. the submitter won't manage a queue or
                          > retry etc.
                          > that's wat the pickup service is for. it'll retry if it can't pass the
                          > message to another "party". and if delivery is not possible, it'll try
                          > to send an error message (a bounce).
                          >
                          > 2) some programs will send spam reports (think of a log parser...) which
                          > do contain spammy words etc. you wouldn't want these to be blocked by a
                          > content filter.
                          >
                          > 3) after all, this is "outbound" mail. so standard spam filters aren't
                          > good at this game. you cannot use RBLs, and other reputation things. on
                          > the other hand, if you see junk you can take action. so why care of
                          > content filtering...

                          Thank you for the excellent bit of education.
                        • John Allen
                          I sympathize with you. i found that one of the best fairly agnostic how-tos is the one by Jeffery Posluns which can be found here
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 10, 2013
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                            I sympathize with you.
                            i found that one of the best fairly agnostic how-tos is the one by Jeffery Posluns which can be found here or can be reached from the Postfix Docs site.

                            JohnA
                            On 09/01/2013 3:57 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

                            On 01/09/2013 02:15 PM, Noel Jones wrote:
                            On 1/9/2013 10:29 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

                            I DID say that I am going to use amavisd-new along with ClamAV and
                            Spamassasin. Where is there a writeup of setting up pickup service
                            for these?

                            Thank you.



                            The amavisd-new INSTALL and the README-postfix give detailed
                            information.  Please report any omissions to the amavisd-new support
                            channel.

                            Will do.

                            The pickup service is not involved in this setup and needs no
                            changes, so it's not mentioned.

                            Got it.  Thanks.

                            Don't confuse "not involved" with "not needed"; postfix still needs
                            the pickup service to submit local mail.

                            It's easy to get confused when you read 15 different how-to
                            documents covering different products.  Find one and stick with it.

                            I HAVE tried to stick with one, but it has errors that I have had to contend with (or was really for earlier versions thus no longer completely right), and has a different anti-stuff setup.  So I am having to 'unlace' some of those pieces as I work with a different how-to that is just on anti-stuff..

                            I made 'good' notes, and have reinstalled Centos and trying again. Noticing things not right, so my notes were not right.  So I will get through it again at some point, then I will reinstall again and see if I can get to a working system.  If so, then I have everything documented and can start on the production build.



                            --

                            Today's mighty Oak is yesterday's nut that held it's ground. - Margaret Bailey

                            Sent using Mozilla Thunderbird



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