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Low Budget Backups

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  • email builder
    Hello, Does anyone have any low-end/low-budget backup suggestions for user mail spools?  Consider hobby type scenarios or small businesses with a cheap single
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 1, 2011
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      Hello,

      Does anyone have any low-end/low-budget backup suggestions for user mail spools?  Consider hobby type scenarios or small businesses with a cheap single hard drive rented (dedicated/shared) server where there may not be budget for another server or paid backup service.

      My thought was if data size wasn't too big, you can use duplicity[1] and FTP the data to one of the few free "cloud"/online backup services (I think filesonic allows reasonable FTP access level, memopal and box.net seem to have webdav access, although might still be buggy to work with duplicity.... others I looked at either didn't seem to have webdav or FTP or had limits that were too restrictive in their free accounts).  Or just FTP stuff to an old file server in your office that's not used for anything except backups, but this depends on connectivity and consistent uptime.

      Or to again use duplicity with a cheap paid FTP account like at rsync.net.

      Are there other ways of achieving this?


      [1] http://duplicity.nongnu.org/
    • Jeroen Geilman
      ... Built into postfix; examine always_bcc and its variants. -- J.
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 1, 2011
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        On 2011-12-01 12:14, email builder wrote:
        > Hello,
        >
        > Does anyone have any low-end/low-budget backup suggestions for user mail spools? Consider hobby type scenarios or small businesses with a cheap single hard drive rented (dedicated/shared) server where there may not be budget for another server or paid backup service.
        >
        > My thought was if data size wasn't too big, you can use duplicity[1] and FTP the data to one of the few free "cloud"/online backup services (I think filesonic allows reasonable FTP access level, memopal and box.net seem to have webdav access, although might still be buggy to work with duplicity.... others I looked at either didn't seem to have webdav or FTP or had limits that were too restrictive in their free accounts). Or just FTP stuff to an old file server in your office that's not used for anything except backups, but this depends on connectivity and consistent uptime.
        >
        > Or to again use duplicity with a cheap paid FTP account like at rsync.net.
        >
        > Are there other ways of achieving this?

        Built into postfix; examine always_bcc and its variants.

        --
        J.
      • email builder
        ... Thanks that s a good thing to keep in mind, but I m not looking to archive all incoming messages, rather the current state of the users mail spools. No
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 1, 2011
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          >> Does anyone have any low-end/low-budget backup suggestions for user mail

          >> spools?  Consider hobby type scenarios or small businesses with a cheap single
          >> hard drive rented (dedicated/shared) server where there may not be budget for
          >> another server or paid backup service.
          >>
          >> My thought was if data size wasn't too big, you can use duplicity[1]
          >> and FTP the data to one of the few free "cloud"/online backup services
          >> (I think filesonic allows reasonable FTP access level, memopal and box.net seem
          >> to have webdav access, although might still be buggy to work with duplicity....
          >> others I looked at either didn't seem to have webdav or FTP or had limits
          >> that were too restrictive in their free accounts).  Or just FTP stuff to an old
          >> file server in your office that's not used for anything except backups, but
          >> this depends on connectivity and consistent uptime.
          >>
          >> Or to again use duplicity with a cheap paid FTP account like at rsync.net.
          >>
          >> Are there other ways of achieving this?
          >
          > Built into postfix; examine always_bcc and its variants.

          Thanks that's a good thing to keep in mind, but I'm not looking to archive all incoming messages, rather the current state of the users' mail spools.

          No other people have systems for doing this?
        • Robert Schetterer
          ... look here for in idea http://www.arschkrebs.de/postfix/postfix_archive.shtml -- Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer Germany/Munich/Bavaria
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 1, 2011
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            Am 02.12.2011 07:02, schrieb email builder:
            >>> Does anyone have any low-end/low-budget backup suggestions for user mail
            >
            >>> spools? Consider hobby type scenarios or small businesses with a cheap single
            >>> hard drive rented (dedicated/shared) server where there may not be budget for
            >>> another server or paid backup service.
            >>>
            >>> My thought was if data size wasn't too big, you can use duplicity[1]
            >>> and FTP the data to one of the few free "cloud"/online backup services
            >>> (I think filesonic allows reasonable FTP access level, memopal and box.net seem
            >>> to have webdav access, although might still be buggy to work with duplicity....
            >>> others I looked at either didn't seem to have webdav or FTP or had limits
            >>> that were too restrictive in their free accounts). Or just FTP stuff to an old
            >>> file server in your office that's not used for anything except backups, but
            >>> this depends on connectivity and consistent uptime.
            >>>
            >>> Or to again use duplicity with a cheap paid FTP account like at rsync.net.
            >>>
            >>> Are there other ways of achieving this?
            >>
            >> Built into postfix; examine always_bcc and its variants.
            >
            > Thanks that's a good thing to keep in mind, but I'm not looking to archive all incoming messages, rather the current state of the users' mail spools.
            >
            > No other people have systems for doing this?
            >

            look here for in idea

            http://www.arschkrebs.de/postfix/postfix_archive.shtml
            --
            Best Regards

            MfG Robert Schetterer

            Germany/Munich/Bavaria
          • Reindl Harald
            ... we are using http://dbmail.org/ behind postfix and a replication-slave if you have only one server you can setup a slave on a different port as 3306 on
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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              Am 02.12.2011 07:02, schrieb email builder:
              > No other people have systems for doing this?

              we are using http://dbmail.org/ behind postfix and a replication-slave
              if you have only one server you can setup a slave on a different port
              as 3306 on 127.0.0.1

              benefit of the slave is that you can stop it at any time, make a
              copy of the whole mysql-datadir via rsync, cp over network or on
              a external disk and after start the slave it will do all changes
              happened on the master due the downtime

              for me this is the best way to get consistent mail-backups without
              any interruption of services
            • email builder
              ... Thanks, but I fail to see how that is in reply to my last statement that I want to back up the current state of user mail spools.  Backing up all email as
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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                >>>>   Does anyone have any low-end/low-budget backup

                >>>> suggestions for user mail
                >>>> spools?  Consider hobby type scenarios or small businesses
                >>>> with a cheap single
                >>>> hard drive rented (dedicated/shared) server where there may
                >>>> not be budget for
                >>>> another server or paid backup service.
                >>>>
                >>>>   My thought was if data size wasn't too big, you can use
                >>>> duplicity[1]
                >>>> and FTP the data to one of the few free "cloud"/online
                >>>> backup services
                >>>> (I think filesonic allows reasonable FTP access level, memopal
                >>>> and box.net seem
                >>>> to have webdav access, although might still be buggy to work
                >>>> with duplicity....
                >>>> others I looked at either didn't seem to have webdav or FTP or
                >>>> had limits
                >>>> that were too restrictive in their free accounts).  Or just FTP
                >>>> stuff to an old
                >>>> file server in your office that's not used for anything except
                >>>> backups, but
                >>>> this depends on connectivity and consistent uptime.
                >>>>
                >>>>   Or to again use duplicity with a cheap paid FTP account like
                >>>> at rsync.net.
                >>>>
                >>>>   Are there other ways of achieving this?
                >>>
                >>> Built into postfix; examine always_bcc and its variants.
                >>
                >> Thanks that's a good thing to keep in mind, but I'm not looking to
                >> archive all incoming messages, rather the current state of the users'
                >> mail spools.
                >>
                >> No other people have systems for doing this?
                >>
                >
                > look here for in idea
                >
                > http://www.arschkrebs.de/postfix/postfix_archive.shtml

                Thanks, but I fail to see how that is in reply to my last statement
                that I want to back up the current state of user mail spools.  Backing
                up all email as it is incoming is a different question.

                Thanks anyway
              • email builder
                ... That s pretty neat.  I m not quite ready to migrate to that kind of email storage, not to mention there seems to be some amount of debate at how good of
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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                  >> No other people have systems for doing this?

                  >
                  > we are using http://dbmail.org/ behind postfix and a replication-slave
                  > if you have only one server you can setup a slave on a different port
                  > as 3306 on 127.0.0.1
                  >
                  > benefit of the slave is that you can stop it at any time, make a
                  > copy of the whole mysql-datadir via rsync, cp over network or on
                  > a external disk and after start the slave it will do all changes
                  > happened on the master due the downtime
                  >
                  > for me this is the best way to get consistent mail-backups without
                  > any interruption of services

                  That's pretty neat.  I'm not quite ready to migrate to that kind of
                  email storage, not to mention there seems to be some amount
                  of debate at how good of an IMAP server dbmail provides.  Probably
                  another similar alternative could be Archiveopteryx:
                  http://archiveopteryx.org/

                  But, yes, nice system.  Thank you.

                  As know one seems to have any other ideas, looks like it has to be
                  some rsynch variant using whatever cheap remote storage I can find.
                • Jim Seymour
                  On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 21:52:54 -0800 (PST) email builder wrote: [snip] ... Seems kind of OT for this list, but since nobody else seems
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                    On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 21:52:54 -0800 (PST)
                    email builder <emailbuilder88@...> wrote:

                    [snip]
                    > As know one seems to have any other ideas, looks like it has to be
                    > some rsynch variant using whatever cheap remote storage I can find.

                    Seems kind of OT for this list, but since nobody else seems to
                    object...

                    Two questions: Does it need to be remote, and why just the mail
                    spool? Why not the entire machine?

                    I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My Passport" USB
                    drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                    that employs rsync. Each backup set looks like a full backup. Works
                    like a champ. I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                    I'm building at work.

                    I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month. The out-of-service
                    drive goes in the safe. At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                    at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.

                    Regards,
                    Jim
                    --
                    Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam
                    filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is
                    rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my
                    web form at <http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php>.
                  • Wietse Venema
                    ... With the home domain, I use rsync for daily backups, and whole system dump to USB drive for (PGP-encrypted) off-site backup. Wietse
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                      Jim Seymour:
                      > On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 21:52:54 -0800 (PST)
                      > email builder <emailbuilder88@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > [snip]
                      > > As know one seems to have any other ideas, looks like it has to be
                      > > some rsynch variant using whatever cheap remote storage I can find.
                      >
                      > Seems kind of OT for this list, but since nobody else seems to
                      > object...
                      >
                      > Two questions: Does it need to be remote, and why just the mail
                      > spool? Why not the entire machine?
                      >
                      > I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My Passport" USB
                      > drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                      > that employs rsync. Each backup set looks like a full backup. Works
                      > like a champ. I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                      > I'm building at work.
                      >
                      > I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month. The out-of-service
                      > drive goes in the safe. At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                      > at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.

                      With the home domain, I use rsync for daily backups, and "whole
                      system" dump to USB drive for (PGP-encrypted) off-site backup.

                      Wietse
                    • Mauricio Tavares
                      Sent from my Blackberry ... I myself use a dockstar running openwrt and a 2TB WD drive as linux/unix and time machine backup.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                        Sent from my Blackberry

                        On Dec 3, 2011 9:59 AM, "Wietse Venema" <wietse@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Jim Seymour:
                        > > On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 21:52:54 -0800 (PST)
                        > > email builder <emailbuilder88@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > [snip]
                        > > > As know one seems to have any other ideas, looks like it has to be
                        > > > some rsynch variant using whatever cheap remote storage I can find.
                        > >
                        > > Seems kind of OT for this list, but since nobody else seems to
                        > > object...
                        > >
                        > > Two questions: Does it need to be remote, and why just the mail
                        > > spool?  Why not the entire machine?
                        > >
                        > > I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My Passport" USB
                        > > drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                        > > that employs rsync.  Each backup set looks like a full backup.  Works
                        > > like a champ.  I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                        > > I'm building at work.
                        > >
                        > > I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month.  The out-of-service
                        > > drive goes in the safe.  At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                        > > at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.
                        >
                        > With the home domain, I use rsync for daily backups, and "whole
                        > system" dump to USB drive for (PGP-encrypted) off-site backup.
                        >
                        >        Wietse

                        I myself use a dockstar running openwrt and a 2TB WD drive as linux/unix and time machine backup.

                      • email builder
                        ... OK, rsync it is.  Can you restore a system crash with a simple rsync backed set of duplicate files? And yes, sorry to the list about the OT topic Applies
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                          >> As know one seems to have any other ideas, looks like it has to be

                          >> some rsynch variant using whatever cheap remote storage I can find.
                          >
                          > Seems kind of OT for this list, but since nobody else seems to
                          > object...
                          >
                          > Two questions: Does it need to be remote, and why just the mail
                          > spool?  Why not the entire machine?
                          >
                          > I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My Passport"
                          > USB
                          > drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                          > that employs rsync.  Each backup set looks like a full backup.  Works
                          > like a champ.  I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                          > I'm building at work.
                          >
                          > I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month.  The out-of-service
                          > drive goes in the safe.  At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                          > at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.

                          OK, rsync it is. 

                          Can you restore a system crash with a simple
                          rsync backed set of duplicate files?

                          And yes, sorry to the list about the OT topic

                          Applies much appreciated.
                        • email builder
                          ... OK, I am seeing a pattern here.  =)  Thank you for the replies.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                            >> [snip]

                            >> > As know one seems to have any other ideas, looks like it has to be
                            >> > some rsynch variant using whatever cheap remote storage I can find.
                            >>
                            >> Seems kind of OT for this list, but since nobody else seems to
                            >> object...
                            >>
                            >> Two questions: Does it need to be remote, and why just the mail
                            >> spool?  Why not the entire machine?
                            >>
                            >> I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My
                            > Passport" USB
                            >> drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                            >> that employs rsync.  Each backup set looks like a full backup.  Works
                            >> like a champ.  I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                            >> I'm building at work.
                            >>
                            >> I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month.  The out-of-service
                            >> drive goes in the safe.  At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                            >> at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.
                            >
                            > With the home domain, I use rsync for daily backups, and "whole
                            > system" dump to USB drive for (PGP-encrypted) off-site backup.

                            OK, I am seeing a pattern here.  =)  Thank you for the replies.
                          • email builder
                            ... Cool, never heard of Dockstar before.  Thanks for the hint.  Does using Openwrt with it help you use its network features without having to pay their
                            Message 13 of 16 , Dec 3, 2011
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                              >> > I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My Passport" USB

                              >> > drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                              >> > that employs rsync.  Each backup set looks like a full backup.  Works
                              >> > like a champ.  I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                              >> > I'm building at work.
                              >> >
                              >> > I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month.  The out-of-service
                              >> > drive goes in the safe.  At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                              >> > at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.
                              >>
                              >> With the home domain, I use rsync for daily backups, and "whole
                              >> system" dump to USB drive for (PGP-encrypted) off-site backup.
                              >>
                              >I myself use a dockstar running openwrt and a 2TB WD drive as linux/unix
                              >and time machine backup.


                              Cool, never heard of Dockstar before.  Thanks for the hint.  Does using Openwrt
                              with it help you use its network features without having to pay their subscription
                              and route all your access through their servers?
                            • Jim Seymour
                              On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 19:00:55 -0800 (PST) ... [snip] ... [snip] Never tried it :p I suspect not. TBH: Other than a Unix SYS3 installation, running on a Motorola
                              Message 14 of 16 , Dec 4, 2011
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                                On Sat, 3 Dec 2011 19:00:55 -0800 (PST)
                                email builder <emailbuilder88@...> wrote:

                                >
                                [snip]
                                >
                                > OK, rsync it is. 
                                >
                                > Can you restore a system crash with a simple
                                > rsync backed set of duplicate files?
                                [snip]

                                Never tried it :p I suspect not.

                                TBH: Other than a Unix SYS3 installation, running on a Motorola Delta
                                box, that was trashed because it was in the middle of an fsck when
                                the power came back up, and the power twitched again (which will do it
                                every time on a non-journaled filesystem), I've never had an actual
                                all-out "crash," per se. I've had some pretty badly-mangled
                                filesystems, but nothing I couldn't eventually recover with the aid
                                of a few file-by-file copies from tape backup.

                                Then again: My policiy is that if it's important: It's on a RAID
                                array.

                                I could probably make my rsync-driven backup script available to you,
                                if you'd like. It's production-quality code and I *believe* it's
                                ready for release. It's been in-use on my server, here at home,
                                since February of this year. The only reason I haven't released it,
                                yet, is because, well, I kind of never got around to it :p.

                                Regards,
                                Jim
                                --
                                Note: My mail server employs *very* aggressive anti-spam
                                filtering. If you reply to this email and your email is
                                rejected, please accept my apologies and let me know via my
                                web form at <http://jimsun.LinxNet.com/contact/scform.php>.
                              • Nikolaos Milas
                                ... Perhaps a bit late in this thread, but we are using Mondo Archive (on CentOS 5.7) and it works great; quite flexible and with easy and effective restore.
                                Message 15 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                                  On 2/12/2011 8:02 πμ, email builder wrote:

                                  > No other people have systems for doing this?

                                  Perhaps a bit late in this thread, but we are using Mondo Archive (on
                                  CentOS 5.7) and it works great; quite flexible and with easy and
                                  effective restore.

                                  Check: http://www.mondorescue.org/

                                  A short intro: http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=59705.0;wap2

                                  We do all sorts of backups, partial and full-system, using it (through
                                  simple cron jobs).

                                  Good luck!
                                  Nick
                                • Mauricio Tavares
                                  ... dockstar is a plug computer on the same lines as the pogoplug, guruplug, sheevaplug, etc. I bought three of them when they used to be $25 a pop, but that
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Dec 5, 2011
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                                    On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 10:18 PM, email builder <emailbuilder88@...> wrote:
                                    >>> > I'm currently backing up my machine at home to a WD "My Passport" USB
                                    >
                                    >>> > drive, doing a monthly full and nightly differential, using a script
                                    >>> > that employs rsync.  Each backup set looks like a full backup.  Works
                                    >>> > like a champ.  I'm going to use the same script on the new mailserver
                                    >>> > I'm building at work.
                                    >>> >
                                    >>> > I have two drives, which I swap once-a-month.  The out-of-service
                                    >>> > drive goes in the safe.  At work I'll probably do three or four, with
                                    >>> > at least one in the bank safety deposit vault.
                                    >>>
                                    >>> With the home domain, I use rsync for daily backups, and "whole
                                    >>> system" dump to USB drive for (PGP-encrypted) off-site backup.
                                    >>>
                                    >>I myself use a dockstar running openwrt and a 2TB WD drive as linux/unix
                                    >>and time machine backup.
                                    >
                                    > Cool, never heard of Dockstar before.  Thanks for the hint.  Does using Openwrt
                                    > with it help you use its network features without having to pay their subscription
                                    > and route all your access through their servers?
                                    >
                                    dockstar is a plug computer on the same lines as the pogoplug,
                                    guruplug, sheevaplug, etc. I bought three of them when they used to be
                                    $25 a pop, but that was a while ago. The pogoplug with wifi is around
                                    $50 at the usual places and can run openwrt... or even debian if you
                                    are willing to use an usb drive to put it in. So what I did on it in
                                    principle will work for all of them. I replaced the factory OS
                                    firmware with openwrt so now it is a standalone setup that cares
                                    nothing about their online service.

                                    Something like that should suffice to be a local backup. If you want,
                                    you can have it do some incremental backup to its local HD (hourly
                                    until filling the HD and then deleting the oldest? It is really up to
                                    you) and then to a remote location (amazon, a backup server you
                                    created and put in an undisclosed location once a day or thereabouts
                                    using some bandwidth throttling. Think this way: it has an entire day
                                    to do the remote backup dance.

                                    Honestly, even with disk level encryption the dockstar is not breaking a sweat.

                                    Power consumption is 10W max for my backup setup. This matters a lot to me.
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