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Webmin as an admin tool?

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  • John
    I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is outside this group). TIA
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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      I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using
      webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is outside
      this group).
      TIA
      John Allen

      --
      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
    • Reindl Harald
      ... missing knowledges, inwilling to learn and the naive hope a GUI which is hiding complex things behind some beautiful windows will be an anlterantive to
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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        Am 26.08.2011 19:28, schrieb John:
        > I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using webmin
        > as a tool to administer postfix (+dovecot, but that is outside this group)

        missing knowledges, inwilling to learn and the naive hope a GUI
        which is hiding complex things behind some beautiful windows
        will be an anlterantive to learn how things are working
      • Wietse Venema
        ... The following is not specific to GUIs, but applies to any program that automatically parses and updates configuration. Be careful about making changes by
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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          John:
          > I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using
          > webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is outside
          > this group).

          The following is not specific to GUIs, but applies to any program
          that automatically parses and updates configuration. Be careful
          about making changes by hand - the tool (GUI or otherwise) may not
          understand everything.

          Wietse
        • Glenn English
          ... Webmin saved my life when I started (about 10 years ago) to put a computer on the Internet. I used it not only as a tool to admin stuff, but as a tool to
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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            On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:28 AM, John wrote:

            > what are the thoughts on using webmin as a tool to administer postfix

            Webmin saved my life when I started (about 10 years ago) to put a computer on the Internet. I used it not only as a tool to admin stuff, but as a tool to understand the configuration(s). I still use it for some things, but have tended toward the wonderful admin tool, vi :-)

            I've sometimes noticed holes in it, but for the basic things I was doing back then, it was fine.

            --
            Glenn English
          • John
            My initial thought was to save my existing config, then use webmin to build a config and compare the two. if they are miles apart then drop the idea. Part of
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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              My initial thought was to save my existing config, then use webmin to
              build a config and compare the two. if they are miles apart then drop
              the idea.
              Part of my reasoning here is that I am getting old and I need to farm
              out some of my work, most of the people that I have been asked to look
              at are not CLI literate and are not particularly keen on becoming so.
              TTYL
              John Allen
              > John:
              >> I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using
              >> webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is outside
              >> this group).
              > The following is not specific to GUIs, but applies to any program
              > that automatically parses and updates configuration. Be careful
              > about making changes by hand - the tool (GUI or otherwise) may not
              > understand everything.
              >
              > Wietse


              --
              "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
            • Steffan A. Cline
              John, I use Virtualmin to handle my configs and it works extremely well and have had no issues. A couple clicks and everything is all done for you. Manually
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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                John,

                I use Virtualmin to handle my configs and it works extremely well and have
                had no issues. A couple clicks and everything is all done for you.
                Manually configuring all these things that Virtualmin does for you would
                take far longer. Of course, if it's a single user/domain situation,
                Virtualmin could be overkill.

                Stan helped me to get the spam prevention in place and I've had
                maintenance free operation for quite some time now complaint free from my
                users.


                Thanks

                Steffan

                ---------------------------------------------------------------
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                Steffan@... Phoenix, Az
                http://www.ExecuChoice.net USA
                AIM : SteffanC Skype : steffancline
                GOOGLE : Steffan.Cline@... MSN : steffan@...
                YAHOO : Steffan_Cline ICQ : 57234309
                ---------------------------------------------------------------





                On 8/26/11 10:28 AM, "John" <john@...> wrote:

                >I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using
                >webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is outside
                >this group).
                >TIA
                >John Allen
                >
                >--
                >"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
                >nothing." (Edmund Burke)
              • Robert Schetterer
                ... i use it on relay setups , for editing i.e relay users,domains tables for windows guys who dont know ssh etc i wouldnt recommend it as general tool, but in
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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                  Am 26.08.2011 19:56, schrieb Reindl Harald:
                  >
                  >
                  > Am 26.08.2011 19:28, schrieb John:
                  >> I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using webmin
                  >> as a tool to administer postfix (+dovecot, but that is outside this group)
                  >
                  > missing knowledges, inwilling to learn and the naive hope a GUI
                  > which is hiding complex things behind some beautiful windows
                  > will be an anlterantive to learn how things are working
                  >

                  i use it on relay setups , for editing
                  i.e relay users,domains tables for windows guys
                  who dont know ssh etc
                  i wouldnt recommend it as general tool, but in parts it can be very
                  helpfull, you may use a seperate webmin user and restrict/hide editing
                  parameter settings etc
                  --
                  Best Regards

                  MfG Robert Schetterer

                  Germany/Munich/Bavaria
                • /dev/rob0
                  [ Please do not top-post your replies. Top-posting fixed. ] ... Oh, no, I would never consider something like that to be able to generate a MTA configuration
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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                    [ Please do not top-post your replies. Top-posting fixed. ]

                    On Friday 26 August 2011 13:18:54 John wrote:
                    > > Wietse:
                    > > John:
                    > >> I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on
                    > >> using webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but
                    > >> that is outside this group).
                    > >
                    > > The following is not specific to GUIs, but applies to any program
                    > > that automatically parses and updates configuration. Be careful
                    > > about making changes by hand - the tool (GUI or otherwise) may
                    > > not understand everything.
                    > >
                    > My initial thought was to save my existing config, then use webmin
                    > to build a config and compare the two. if they are miles apart
                    > then drop the idea.

                    Oh, no, I would never consider something like that to be able to
                    generate a MTA configuration from scratch. It can only be as good as
                    the coder who wrote it, and do note, that individual is a programmer,
                    not a sysadmin. Those who are proficient at both are rare.

                    The best sort of admin GUI I have seen is Samba's SWAT. It presents a
                    basic interface with common settings, and can optionally show all
                    smb.conf(5) settings. If uncommon settings are added to the smb.conf
                    file, those will show up in the basic interface. Most important about
                    SWAT are the complete hyperlinks to the smb.conf documentation. Syntax
                    help and examples are right at your fingertips.

                    Something of that nature could rather easily be developed for Postfix,
                    since we already have excellent and complete HTML documentation (look
                    up anything_you_need in your own postconf.5.html#anything_you_need :
                    every possible setting has its own anchor in the document.) But AFAIK
                    no one has done this yet.

                    > Part of my reasoning here is that I am getting old and I need to
                    > farm out some of my work, most of the people that I have been
                    > asked to look at are not CLI literate and are not particularly
                    > keen on becoming so. TTYL

                    Webmin, such as it is, is probably fine for simple tasks you might
                    wish to delegate to non-technical people, such as user and alias
                    management. A person who does not understand a Unix CLI probably also
                    does not understand email, and for that person to be tinkering with
                    Postfix settings is a bad idea.
                    --
                    Offlist mail to this address is discarded unless
                    "/dev/rob0" or "not-spam" is in Subject: header
                  • Miles Fidelman
                    ... I use it for managing bind files - it s simply easier and less prone to errors than navigating through text files full of DNS records. -- In theory, there
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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                      Robert Schetterer wrote:
                      > Am 26.08.2011 19:56, schrieb Reindl Harald:
                      >>
                      >> Am 26.08.2011 19:28, schrieb John:
                      >>> I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using webmin
                      >>> as a tool to administer postfix (+dovecot, but that is outside this group)
                      >> missing knowledges, inwilling to learn and the naive hope a GUI
                      >> which is hiding complex things behind some beautiful windows
                      >> will be an anlterantive to learn how things are working
                      >>
                      > i use it on relay setups , for editing
                      > i.e relay users,domains tables for windows guys
                      > who dont know ssh etc
                      > i wouldnt recommend it as general tool, but in parts it can be very
                      > helpfull, you may use a seperate webmin user and restrict/hide editing
                      > parameter settings etc

                      I use it for managing bind files - it's simply easier and less prone to
                      errors than navigating through text files full of DNS records.

                      --
                      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
                      In<fnord> practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
                    • Reindl Harald
                      ... on the other hand it took my one night to get a own named-backend for mysql generating the bind-files in a text-field and the servers are checking via
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 26, 2011
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                        Am 27.08.2011 00:43, schrieb Miles Fidelman:
                        > Robert Schetterer wrote:
                        >> Am 26.08.2011 19:56, schrieb Reindl Harald:
                        >>>
                        >>> Am 26.08.2011 19:28, schrieb John:
                        >>>> I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using webmin
                        >>>> as a tool to administer postfix (+dovecot, but that is outside this group)
                        >>> missing knowledges, inwilling to learn and the naive hope a GUI
                        >>> which is hiding complex things behind some beautiful windows
                        >>> will be an anlterantive to learn how things are working
                        >>>
                        >> i use it on relay setups , for editing
                        >> i.e relay users,domains tables for windows guys
                        >> who dont know ssh etc
                        >> i wouldnt recommend it as general tool, but in parts it can be very
                        >> helpfull, you may use a seperate webmin user and restrict/hide editing
                        >> parameter settings etc
                        >
                        > I use it for managing bind files - it's simply easier and less prone to errors
                        > than navigating through text files full of DNS records

                        on the other hand it took my one night to get a own named-backend for mysql
                        generating the "bind-files" in a text-field and the servers are checking
                        via cron if there are changes, two years later it took 2 hours to get this
                        thing optimized for generate a translation LAN/WAN in a second text-field to
                        provide public dns and LAN-DNS for some hundret domains via a unique backend

                        additionally a-records in the backend undrstand servernames without domain
                        and while writing the "zone-file" it will be replaced with the ip, nice for
                        manage MX/A-Record while never have a IP more than once

                        this are the differences between any generic gui crap where you never know
                        what happens if you start needing extended options nor is your config
                        readable most of the times or unneeded complex

                        well, the mailserver backend took much longer but here you have also options
                        for "company-hacks" in the webinterface and you can add tables/translations
                        and automatisms exactly how you need them

                        generic webuis always support only a subset of options and if your needs
                        are changing you get a hughe problem eating all the time you thought saved
                      • Steve Fatula
                        ... Webmin works fine. When used with Virtualmin, even better. Virtualmin (even if using only for mail) makes Webmin more convenient and easier than Webmin
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 27, 2011
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                          > My initial thought was to save my existing config, then use webmin to build a 

                          > config and compare the two. if they are miles apart then drop the idea.
                          > Part of my reasoning here is that I am getting old and I need to farm out some
                          > of my work, most of the people that I have been asked to look at are not CLI
                          > literate and are not particularly keen on becoming so.


                          Webmin works fine. When used with Virtualmin, even better. Virtualmin (even if using only for mail) makes Webmin more convenient and easier than Webmin alone. But yes, it doesn't do everything possible.
                        • David Touzeau
                          Take a look here http://www.artica.fr/index.php/screenshots Open Source solution. Tried to perform Complex settings such has multiples postfix instances
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 27, 2011
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                            Take a look here
                            http://www.artica.fr/index.php/screenshots
                            Open Source solution.

                            Tried to perform Complex settings such has multiples postfix instances
                            Postfix upgrade by compilation supported
                            Can act has mailbox server
                            Load balancing and PowerDNS support.
                            LDAP and ActiveDirectory support
                            PostScreen support and associated plugins like milter-greylist, spamassassin, Amavisd-new
                            Realtime Backup on the fly
                            Statistics
                            Anti-hacks
                            Load balancing, round-robbin...
                            Multi-administrators interfaces.
                            End-users interfaces for quarantine and aliases
                            ..blabla...




                            Le vendredi 26 août 2011 à 13:28 -0400, John a écrit :
                            I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using 
                            webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is outside 
                            this group).
                            TIA
                            John Allen
                            
                            

                          • weber@zackbummfertig.de
                            Artica seems not any more under develpment since 2009 .... Last Changes was 2009 On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:33:34 +0200, David Touzeau
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 31, 2011
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                              Artica seems not any more under develpment since 2009 ....
                              Last Changes was 2009

                              On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:33:34 +0200, David Touzeau <david@...>
                              wrote:
                              > Take a look here
                              >
                              > Open Source solution.
                              >
                              > Tried to perform Complex settings such has multiples postfix
                              > instances
                              > Postfix upgrade by compilation supported
                              > Can act has mailbox server
                              > Load balancing and PowerDNS support.
                              > LDAP and ActiveDirectory support
                              > PostScreen support and associated plugins like milter-greylist,
                              > spamassassin, Amavisd-new
                              > Realtime Backup on the fly
                              > Statistics
                              > Anti-hacks
                              > Load balancing, round-robbin...
                              > Multi-administrators interfaces.
                              > End-users interfaces for quarantine and aliases
                              > ..blabla...
                              >
                              > Le vendredi 26 août 2011 à 13:28 -0400, John a écrit :
                              >
                              > I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using
                              > webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is
                              > outside
                              >
                              > this group).
                              > TIA
                              > John Allen
                            • David Touzeau
                              2 releases per month latest is 01-09-2011 http://www.artica.fr/forum/viewforum.php?f=11 Le mercredi 31 août 2011 à 15:30 +0200, weber@zackbummfertig.de a
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 1 2:51 AM
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                                2 releases per month latest is 01-09-2011

                                http://www.artica.fr/forum/viewforum.php?f=11



                                Le mercredi 31 août 2011 à 15:30 +0200, weber@... a
                                écrit :
                                > Artica seems not any more under develpment since 2009 ....
                                > Last Changes was 2009
                                >
                                > On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:33:34 +0200, David Touzeau <david@...>
                                > wrote:
                                > > Take a look here
                                > >
                                > > Open Source solution.
                                > >
                                > > Tried to perform Complex settings such has multiples postfix
                                > > instances
                                > > Postfix upgrade by compilation supported
                                > > Can act has mailbox server
                                > > Load balancing and PowerDNS support.
                                > > LDAP and ActiveDirectory support
                                > > PostScreen support and associated plugins like milter-greylist,
                                > > spamassassin, Amavisd-new
                                > > Realtime Backup on the fly
                                > > Statistics
                                > > Anti-hacks
                                > > Load balancing, round-robbin...
                                > > Multi-administrators interfaces.
                                > > End-users interfaces for quarantine and aliases
                                > > ..blabla...
                                > >
                                > > Le vendredi 26 août 2011 à 13:28 -0400, John a écrit :
                                > >
                                > > I do not want to start a flam war, but what are the thoughts on using
                                > > webmin as a tool to administer postfix (+ dovecot, but that is
                                > > outside
                                > >
                                > > this group).
                                > > TIA
                                > > John Allen
                                >
                                >
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