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Re: mysql GPL/postfix IPL incompatibility

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  • Reindl Harald
    ... seems so for fedora i had to take the srpm and rebuild it with mysql-support which can be enabled in the SPEC-file but is not enabled in binary builds i
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
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      Am 01.03.2011 10:06, schrieb Ralf Hildebrandt:

      > Agreed. I do know that some RedHat releases had no maptype mysql
      > (because of this?)

      seems so

      for fedora i had to take the srpm and rebuild it with mysql-support which
      can be enabled in the SPEC-file but is not enabled in binary builds

      i think this is a godd solution because they must not think about
      possible licensce problems and a user who need it really can
      rebuild the srpm within 5 minutes
    • Matthias Andree
      ... Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from being used - but not the
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
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        Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:

        > The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
        > link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.

        Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
        license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
        being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.

        If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
        PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
        worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
        compliance.

        [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
      • lst_hoe02@kwsoft.de
        ... This will get you into flame-wars for sure... Andreas
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
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          Zitat von Matthias Andree <matthias.andree@...>:

          > Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
          >
          >> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
          >> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.
          >
          > Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
          > license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
          > being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
          >
          > If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
          > PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
          > worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
          > compliance.
          >
          > [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
          >

          :-)

          This will get you into flame-wars for sure...

          Andreas
        • Quanah Gibson-Mount
          --On Tuesday, March 01, 2011 10:06 AM +0100 Ralf Hildebrandt ... No relation, and I have no known Native American
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
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            --On Tuesday, March 01, 2011 10:06 AM +0100 Ralf Hildebrandt
            <Ralf.Hildebrandt@...> wrote:

            > * Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@...>:
            >
            >> Sorry, I apologize. Particularly as someone who sees my own name
            >> often misspelled. ;)
            >
            > What is the origin of "Quanah"?

            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanah_Parker>

            No relation, and I have no known Native American blood. But my parents
            were impressed by him and his accomplishments.

            >> > position. I don't care if one flavor of "you must release source
            >> > code" is better than another flavor. If I had the choice it then
            >> > would be the same BSD licence that I slapped on my older tools.
            >>
            >> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
            >> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix
            >> functionality.
            >
            > Wasn't there also an issue with OpenSSL (at least it has been
            > mentioned some time ago on this list).

            I don't know. Certainly possible.

            >> I also think that the "flavor" option has some importance. If it
            >> allows Postfix to be more widely used in a way that is comfortable to
            >> IBM, then I think that is a good thing.
            >
            > Agreed. I do know that some RedHat releases had no maptype mysql
            > (because of this?)

            No idea.

            --Quanah


            --

            Quanah Gibson-Mount
            Sr. Member of Technical Staff
            Zimbra, Inc
            A Division of VMware, Inc.
            --------------------
            Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
          • mouss
            ... fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and I m pushing for the same move at $dayjob and beyond .
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
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              Le 01/03/2011 11:25, Matthias Andree a écrit :
              > Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
              >
              >> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
              >> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.
              >
              > Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
              > license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
              > being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
              >
              > If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
              > PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
              > worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
              > compliance.
              >
              > [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>

              fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and
              I'm pushing for the same move at $dayjob and "beyond".
            • mouss
              ... seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see what gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they ll get out with a great
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
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                Le 01/03/2011 10:09, Ralf Hildebrandt a écrit :
                > * Victor Duchovni <Victor.Duchovni@...>:
                >
                >> This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links
                >> Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL
                >> shared library. Whether this is allowed under the MySQL license is
                >> not completely clear.
                >>
                >> It is not a problem with Postgres or LDAP.
                >
                > I'm wondering if MariaDB (which is the fork of MySQL) could solve the
                > problems:
                >
                > http://kb.askmonty.org/v/mariadb-license#mariadb-client-license
                > http://mariadb.org/
                >
                > "MariaDB is a database server that offers drop-in replacement
                > functionality for MySQL. MariaDB is built by some of the original
                > authors of MySQL, with assistance from the broader community of Free
                > and open source software developers. In addition to the core
                > functionality of MySQL, MariaDB offers a rich set of feature
                > enhancements including alternate storage engines, server
                > optimizations, and patches."
                >

                seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see what
                gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they'll get out
                with a great success, or the project will die.
              • Ralf Hildebrandt
                ... Yes. Promising, to say the least. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
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                  * mouss <mouss@...>:

                  > seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see
                  > what gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they'll get
                  > out with a great success, or the project will die.

                  Yes. Promising, to say the least.

                  --
                  Ralf Hildebrandt
                  Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
                  Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
                  Campus Benjamin Franklin
                  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
                  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
                  ralf.hildebrandt@... | http://www.charite.de
                • Randy Ramsdell
                  ... Looks like what Oracle wanted is working.
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 3, 2011
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                    mouss wrote:
                    > Le 01/03/2011 11:25, Matthias Andree a écrit :
                    >> Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                    >>
                    >>> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                    >>> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.
                    >> Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                    >> license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                    >> being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
                    >>
                    >> If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                    >> PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                    >> worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                    >> compliance.
                    >>
                    >> [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
                    >
                    > fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and
                    > I'm pushing for the same move at $dayjob and "beyond".

                    Looks like what Oracle wanted is working.
                  • Charles Marcus
                    ... It s already been well over a year since it was forked. The announcement was made in May of 2009, and the first release version was in February of 2010...
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 3, 2011
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                      On 2011-03-02 5:10 PM, mouss wrote:
                      > Le 01/03/2011 10:09, Ralf Hildebrandt a écrit :
                      >> "MariaDB is a database server that offers drop-in replacement
                      >> functionality for MySQL. MariaDB is built by some of the original
                      >> authors of MySQL, with assistance from the broader community of Free
                      >> and open source software developers. In addition to the core
                      >> functionality of MySQL, MariaDB offers a rich set of feature
                      >> enhancements including alternate storage engines, server
                      >> optimizations, and patches."

                      > seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see what
                      > gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they'll get out
                      > with a great success, or the project will die.

                      It's already been well over a year since it was forked. The announcement
                      was made in May of 2009, and the first release version was in February
                      of 2010...

                      http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2010/03/time-flies-one-year-of-mariadb.html

                      --

                      Best regards,

                      Charles
                    • mouss
                      ... I don t understand what you are trying to say, but most importantly I don t care for what Oracle wanted . if they acquired mysql, it s because mysql guys
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 3, 2011
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                        Le 03/03/2011 15:39, Randy Ramsdell a écrit :
                        > mouss wrote:
                        >> Le 01/03/2011 11:25, Matthias Andree a écrit :
                        >>> Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                        >>>
                        >>>> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                        >>>> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix
                        >>>> functionality.
                        >>> Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                        >>> license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                        >>> being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
                        >>>
                        >>> If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                        >>> PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                        >>> worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                        >>> compliance.
                        >>>
                        >>> [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
                        >>
                        >> fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and
                        >> I'm pushing for the same move at $dayjob and "beyond".
                        >
                        > Looks like what Oracle wanted is working.

                        I don't understand what you are trying to say, but most importantly I
                        don't care for what Oracle "wanted". if they acquired mysql, it's
                        because mysql guys agreed. same for sleepycat. it's becoming common for
                        people to go open source to get a community of users, then go commercial.
                      • Quanah Gibson-Mount
                        --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:32 PM -0500 Victor Duchovni ... After filing a bug with RedHat about their GPL violation, they got on the phone with Oracle,
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 22, 2011
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                          --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:32 PM -0500 Victor Duchovni
                          <Victor.Duchovni@...> wrote:

                          > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 09:22:52PM -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
                          >
                          >> With Debian, if I need mysql support I simply install the extra package
                          >> postfix-mysql, which depends on libmysqlclient. (This is the same
                          >> procedure for acquiring pgsql, pcre, cdb, ldap, etc capability)
                          >>
                          >> So by installing the package postfix-mysql and libmysqlclient, am I
                          >> violating a license agreement? If not, what's the difference, and why?
                          >
                          > This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links
                          > Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL
                          > shared library. Whether this is allowed under the MySQL license is
                          > not completely clear.
                          >
                          > It is not a problem with Postgres or LDAP.

                          After filing a bug with RedHat about their GPL violation, they got on the
                          phone with Oracle, and Oracle updated the MySQL FOSS exception list to
                          include IBM Public License 1.0. So this is no longer a problem for anyone.

                          --Quanah


                          --

                          Quanah Gibson-Mount
                          Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                          Zimbra, Inc
                          A Division of VMware, Inc.
                          --------------------
                          Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                        • Wietse Venema
                          ... Thanks. That is one less thing to worry about. Wietse
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 22, 2011
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                            Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                            > After filing a bug with RedHat about their GPL violation, they got on the
                            > phone with Oracle, and Oracle updated the MySQL FOSS exception list to
                            > include IBM Public License 1.0. So this is no longer a problem for anyone.

                            Thanks. That is one less thing to worry about.

                            Wietse
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