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mysql GPL/postfix IPL incompatibility

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  • Quanah Gibson-Mount
    Just curious, the GPL and the IPL are not license compatible. Anyone know how RHEL and other sites deal with this when trying to provide a postfix with mysql
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 25, 2011
      Just curious, the GPL and the IPL are not license compatible. Anyone know
      how RHEL and other sites deal with this when trying to provide a postfix
      with mysql tables as an option?

      I see that postfix on RHEL6 clearly links against mysql:

      cd /usr/sbin
      [build@zre-rhel6-64 sbin]$ ldd postfix
      libmysqlclient.so.16 => /usr/lib64/mysql/libmysqlclient.so.16
      (0x00007f6e79d26000)

      --Quanah

      --

      Quanah Gibson-Mount
      Sr. Member of Technical Staff
      Zimbra, Inc
      A Division of VMware, Inc.
      --------------------
      Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
    • Victor Duchovni
      ... [IANAL] The MySQL client libraries may also be linked with software available under various other open-source licenses:
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 25, 2011
        On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:39:25PM -0800, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:

        > Just curious, the GPL and the IPL are not license compatible. Anyone know
        > how RHEL and other sites deal with this when trying to provide a postfix
        > with mysql tables as an option?

        [IANAL]

        The MySQL client libraries may also be linked with software available
        under various other open-source licenses:

        http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/

        Among these is the Common Public License, which IBM now uses instead of
        IPL, but it is not obvious to me that the CPL applies to Postfix.

        http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-cplfaq.html

        1. What is the relationship between the IBM(R) Public License (IPL)
        and the Common Public License (CPL)?

        The IPL was IBM's first open source license. The CPL is
        essentially the next version of the IPL.

        the Postfix license states:

        IBM may publish new versions (including revisions) of this Agreement
        from time to time. Each new version of the Agreement will be given a
        distinguishing version number. The Program (including Contributions)
        may always be distributed subject to the version of the Agreement under
        which it was received. In addition, after a new version of the Agreement
        is published, Contributor may elect to distribute the Program (including
        its Contributions) under the new version.

        so it is perhaps useful to understand whether the CPL is such a new
        version, and whether Postfix may now be distributed under the CPL.

        > I see that postfix on RHEL6 clearly links against mysql:

        While the IPL is listed at:

        http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical

        The MySQL FOSS exception, however, does not broadly include all OSI
        licenses.

        --
        Viktor.
      • Quanah Gibson-Mount
        --On Saturday, February 26, 2011 1:41 AM -0500 Victor Duchovni ... Victor, Thanks for the information, very useful. I would be particularly curious to know if
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 25, 2011
          --On Saturday, February 26, 2011 1:41 AM -0500 Victor Duchovni
          <Victor.Duchovni@...> wrote:

          > On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 04:39:25PM -0800, Quanah Gibson-Mount wrote:
          >
          >> Just curious, the GPL and the IPL are not license compatible. Anyone
          >> know how RHEL and other sites deal with this when trying to provide a
          >> postfix with mysql tables as an option?
          >
          > [IANAL]
          >
          > The MySQL client libraries may also be linked with software available
          > under various other open-source licenses:
          >
          > http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/
          >
          > Among these is the Common Public License, which IBM now uses instead of
          > IPL, but it is not obvious to me that the CPL applies to Postfix.
          >
          > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-cplfaq.html
          >
          > 1. What is the relationship between the IBM(R) Public License (IPL)
          > and the Common Public License (CPL)?
          >
          > The IPL was IBM's first open source license. The CPL is
          > essentially the next version of the IPL.
          >
          > the Postfix license states:
          >
          > IBM may publish new versions (including revisions) of this Agreement
          > from time to time. Each new version of the Agreement will be given a
          > distinguishing version number. The Program (including Contributions)
          > may always be distributed subject to the version of the Agreement
          > under which it was received. In addition, after a new version of the
          > Agreement is published, Contributor may elect to distribute the
          > Program (including its Contributions) under the new version.
          >
          > so it is perhaps useful to understand whether the CPL is such a new
          > version, and whether Postfix may now be distributed under the CPL.
          >
          >> I see that postfix on RHEL6 clearly links against mysql:
          >
          > While the IPL is listed at:
          >
          > http://www.opensource.org/licenses/alphabetical
          >
          > The MySQL FOSS exception, however, does not broadly include all OSI
          > licenses.

          Victor,

          Thanks for the information, very useful. I would be particularly curious
          to know if Postfix is now licensed under the CPL rather than the IPL.
          Would Wietse need to confirm that?

          Thanks,
          Quanah

          --

          Quanah Gibson-Mount
          Sr. Member of Technical Staff
          Zimbra, Inc
          A Division of VMware, Inc.
          --------------------
          Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
        • Quanah Gibson-Mount
          --On Friday, February 25, 2011 11:02 PM -0800 Quanah Gibson-Mount ... So, since the mysql exception does not include the IPL, then it seems that making it
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
            --On Friday, February 25, 2011 11:02 PM -0800 Quanah Gibson-Mount
            <quanah@...> wrote:

            >> The MySQL FOSS exception, however, does not broadly include all OSI
            >> licenses.
            >
            > Victor,
            >
            > Thanks for the information, very useful. I would be particularly curious
            > to know if Postfix is now licensed under the CPL rather than the IPL.
            > Would Wietse need to confirm that?

            So, since the mysql exception does not include the IPL, then it seems that
            making it possible to link postfix against the mysql libraries puts others
            in a bind if they want the functionality, given the incompatibility between
            the two licenses.

            Wieste, will postfix be moving to the CPL, or will it be retaining the IPL?

            Thanks,
            Quanah


            --

            Quanah Gibson-Mount
            Sr. Member of Technical Staff
            Zimbra, Inc
            A Division of VMware, Inc.
            --------------------
            Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
          • Wietse Venema
            ... The IPL is the second license under which Postfix was released. With IPL and CPL being similar in spirit (and equally objectionable for OpenBSD, according
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
              Quanah Gibson-Mount:
              > <quanah@...> wrote:
              >
              > >> The MySQL FOSS exception, however, does not broadly include all OSI
              > >> licenses.
              > >
              > > Victor,
              > >
              > > Thanks for the information, very useful. I would be particularly curious
              > > to know if Postfix is now licensed under the CPL rather than the IPL.
              > > Would Wietse need to confirm that?
              >
              > So, since the mysql exception does not include the IPL, then it seems that
              > making it possible to link postfix against the mysql libraries puts others
              > in a bind if they want the functionality, given the incompatibility between
              > the two licenses.
              >
              > Wieste, will postfix be moving to the CPL, or will it be retaining the IPL?

              The IPL is the second license under which Postfix was released.
              With IPL and CPL being similar in spirit (and equally objectionable
              for OpenBSD, according to people I talked to) I need to hear good
              arguments before I would enter further discussion with IBM lawyers.

              Wietse
            • Quanah Gibson-Mount
              --On Monday, February 28, 2011 3:37 PM -0500 Wietse Venema ... Hi Wieste, I see that the CPL has in fact been replaced with the EPL. Do the BSD folks find it
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                --On Monday, February 28, 2011 3:37 PM -0500 Wietse Venema
                <wietse@...> wrote:

                >> Wieste, will postfix be moving to the CPL, or will it be retaining the
                >> IPL?
                >
                > The IPL is the second license under which Postfix was released.
                > With IPL and CPL being similar in spirit (and equally objectionable
                > for OpenBSD, according to people I talked to) I need to hear good
                > arguments before I would enter further discussion with IBM lawyers.

                Hi Wieste,

                I see that the CPL has in fact been replaced with the EPL. Do the BSD
                folks find it as objectionable as well? If not, then if you do look into
                re-licensing postfix, perhaps the EPL would be a better solution.

                The general argument in favor of re-licensing postfix that I see is that
                the EPL in particular is seen as more friendly, OSS wise, by other groups,
                even if not by the BSD folks. Certainly allowing postfix to be linked
                against the MySQL libraries without engendering a license violation is a
                significant positive. Postfix is highly used among various linux
                distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE, RedHat all come to mind), but with the
                exception of Redhat, none of them link postfix against the MySQL libraries
                by default.

                I appreciate you taking the time to ponder what I am sure is quite a
                arduous task, even if you decide against going forward with it.

                Regards,
                Quanah

                --

                Quanah Gibson-Mount
                Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                Zimbra, Inc
                A Division of VMware, Inc.
                --------------------
                Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
              • Wietse Venema
                ... Please, spell my name correctly. Thank you. ... I don t run to the IP laywers for each iteration of the IBM license agreement, nor do I run to the OpenBSD
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                  Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                  > >> Wieste, will postfix be moving to the CPL, or will it be retaining the
                  > >> IPL?
                  > >
                  > > The IPL is the second license under which Postfix was released.
                  > > With IPL and CPL being similar in spirit (and equally objectionable
                  > > for OpenBSD, according to people I talked to) I need to hear good
                  > > arguments before I would enter further discussion with IBM lawyers.
                  >
                  > Hi Wieste,

                  Please, spell my name correctly. Thank you.

                  > I see that the CPL has in fact been replaced with the EPL. Do the BSD
                  > folks find it as objectionable as well? If not, then if you do look into
                  > re-licensing postfix, perhaps the EPL would be a better solution.

                  I don't run to the IP laywers for each iteration of the IBM license
                  agreement, nor do I run to the OpenBSD people to ask for their opinion.

                  I would need to hear really good reasons before I change this
                  position. I don't care if one flavor of "you must release source
                  code" is better than another flavor. If I had the choice it then
                  would be the same BSD licence that I slapped on my older tools.

                  Wietse
                • mouss
                  ... If you re confusing BSD folks and OpenBSD , then you shouldn t worry about gpl, epl, cpl, ipl and all that jam:) ... postfix is the
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                    Le 28/02/2011 23:03, Quanah Gibson-Mount a écrit :
                    > --On Monday, February 28, 2011 3:37 PM -0500 Wietse Venema
                    > <wietse@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >>> Wieste, will postfix be moving to the CPL, or will it be retaining the
                    >>> IPL?
                    >>
                    >> The IPL is the second license under which Postfix was released.
                    >> With IPL and CPL being similar in spirit (and equally objectionable
                    >> for OpenBSD, according to people I talked to) I need to hear good
                    >> arguments before I would enter further discussion with IBM lawyers.
                    >
                    > Hi Wieste,
                    >
                    > I see that the CPL has in fact been replaced with the EPL. Do the BSD
                    > folks find it as objectionable as well?

                    <humour>
                    If you're confusing "BSD folks" and "OpenBSD", then you shouldn't worry
                    about gpl, epl, cpl, ipl and all that jam:)
                    </humour>

                    > If not, then if you do look
                    > into re-licensing postfix, perhaps the EPL would be a better solution.
                    >
                    > The general argument in favor of re-licensing postfix that I see is that
                    > the EPL in particular is seen as more friendly, OSS wise, by other
                    > groups, even if not by the BSD folks.

                    postfix is the default MTA in NetBSD. so it seems "some" of the "BSD
                    folks" have no problems with the current licence;-p

                    > Certainly allowing postfix to be
                    > linked against the MySQL libraries without engendering a license
                    > violation is a significant positive. Postfix is highly used among
                    > various linux distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE, RedHat all come to
                    > mind), but with the exception of Redhat, none of them link postfix
                    > against the MySQL libraries by default.
                    >

                    could you get any info on how RH are "solving" the problem (if there is
                    a problem)? I can't believe they could get this wrong.

                    > I appreciate you taking the time to ponder what I am sure is quite a
                    > arduous task, even if you decide against going forward with it.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > Quanah
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    > Quanah Gibson-Mount
                    > Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                    > Zimbra, Inc
                    > A Division of VMware, Inc.
                    > --------------------
                    > Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                  • Quanah Gibson-Mount
                    --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:53 PM +0100 mouss ... I m rather curious about that myself. I have a contact at RH I intend to ask
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                      --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:53 PM +0100 mouss <mouss@...>
                      wrote:

                      >> Certainly allowing postfix to be
                      >> linked against the MySQL libraries without engendering a license
                      >> violation is a significant positive. Postfix is highly used among
                      >> various linux distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE, RedHat all come to
                      >> mind), but with the exception of Redhat, none of them link postfix
                      >> against the MySQL libraries by default.
                      >>
                      >
                      > could you get any info on how RH are "solving" the problem (if there is
                      > a problem)? I can't believe they could get this wrong.

                      I'm rather curious about that myself. I have a contact at RH I intend to
                      ask that very question of. ;)

                      --Quanah

                      --

                      Quanah Gibson-Mount
                      Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                      Zimbra, Inc
                      A Division of VMware, Inc.
                      --------------------
                      Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                    • Quanah Gibson-Mount
                      --On Monday, February 28, 2011 5:43 PM -0500 Wietse Venema ... Sorry, I apologize. Particularly as someone who sees my own name often misspelled. ;) ... The
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                        --On Monday, February 28, 2011 5:43 PM -0500 Wietse Venema
                        <wietse@...> wrote:

                        > Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                        >> >> Wieste, will postfix be moving to the CPL, or will it be retaining the
                        >> >> IPL?
                        >> >
                        >> > The IPL is the second license under which Postfix was released.
                        >> > With IPL and CPL being similar in spirit (and equally objectionable
                        >> > for OpenBSD, according to people I talked to) I need to hear good
                        >> > arguments before I would enter further discussion with IBM lawyers.
                        >>
                        >> Hi Wieste,
                        >
                        > Please, spell my name correctly. Thank you.

                        Sorry, I apologize. Particularly as someone who sees my own name often
                        misspelled. ;)

                        >> I see that the CPL has in fact been replaced with the EPL. Do the BSD
                        >> folks find it as objectionable as well? If not, then if you do look
                        >> into re-licensing postfix, perhaps the EPL would be a better solution.
                        >
                        > I don't run to the IP laywers for each iteration of the IBM license
                        > agreement, nor do I run to the OpenBSD people to ask for their opinion.
                        >
                        > I would need to hear really good reasons before I change this
                        > position. I don't care if one flavor of "you must release source
                        > code" is better than another flavor. If I had the choice it then
                        > would be the same BSD licence that I slapped on my older tools.

                        The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally link
                        Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.

                        I also think that the "flavor" option has some importance. If it allows
                        Postfix to be more widely used in a way that is comfortable to IBM, then I
                        think that is a good thing.

                        --Quanah


                        --

                        Quanah Gibson-Mount
                        Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                        Zimbra, Inc
                        A Division of VMware, Inc.
                        --------------------
                        Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                      • Alfonso Alejandro Reyes Jimenez
                        Don t be surprised if the ask this list, They have never helped me with my postfix issues. Saludos.                   Ing. Alfonso Alejandro Reyes
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                          Don't be surprised if the ask this list, They have never helped me with my postfix issues.

                          Saludos.
                           
                                       
                           
                          Ing. Alfonso Alejandro Reyes Jiménez
                                    Analista del sector Gobierno
                           
                          E-mail: aareyes@...
                          Telefono: 91 50 74 00 ext. 7489
                          Movil: (044) 55 52 98 34 82

                          -----Mensaje original-----
                          De: owner-postfix-users@... [mailto:owner-postfix-users@...] En nombre de Quanah Gibson-Mount
                          Enviado el: lunes, 28 de febrero de 2011 04:57 p.m.
                          Para: mouss+nobulk@...; postfix-users@...
                          Asunto: Re: mysql GPL/postfix IPL incompatibility

                          --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:53 PM +0100 mouss <mouss@...>
                          wrote:

                          >> Certainly allowing postfix to be
                          >> linked against the MySQL libraries without engendering a license
                          >> violation is a significant positive. Postfix is highly used among
                          >> various linux distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE, RedHat all come to
                          >> mind), but with the exception of Redhat, none of them link postfix
                          >> against the MySQL libraries by default.
                          >>
                          >
                          > could you get any info on how RH are "solving" the problem (if there is
                          > a problem)? I can't believe they could get this wrong.

                          I'm rather curious about that myself. I have a contact at RH I intend to
                          ask that very question of. ;)

                          --Quanah

                          --

                          Quanah Gibson-Mount
                          Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                          Zimbra, Inc
                          A Division of VMware, Inc.
                          --------------------
                          Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                        • Mihira Fernando
                          ... Speaking of default MTAs, Postfix is the default MTA on Ubuntu Server as well. Mihira.
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                            On 03/01/2011 04:23 AM, mouss wrote:
                            >
                            > postfix is the default MTA in NetBSD. so it seems "some" of the "BSD
                            > folks" have no problems with the current licence;-p
                            Speaking of default MTAs, Postfix is the default MTA on Ubuntu Server as
                            well.


                            Mihira.
                          • Stan Hoeppner
                            ... I m no dev so please excuse the stupid questions. You mention by default . What exactly is the issue here? With Debian, if I need mysql support I simply
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                              Quanah Gibson-Mount put forth on 2/28/2011 4:03 PM:

                              > Postfix is highly used among
                              > various linux distributions (Debian, Ubuntu, SuSE, RedHat all come to
                              > mind), but with the exception of Redhat, none of them link postfix
                              > against the MySQL libraries by default.

                              I'm no dev so please excuse the stupid questions.

                              You mention "by default". What exactly is the issue here?

                              With Debian, if I need mysql support I simply install the extra package
                              postfix-mysql, which depends on libmysqlclient. (This is the same
                              procedure for acquiring pgsql, pcre, cdb, ldap, etc capability)

                              So by installing the package postfix-mysql and libmysqlclient, am I
                              violating a license agreement? If not, what's the difference, and why?

                              Thanks.

                              --
                              Stan
                            • Victor Duchovni
                              ... This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL shared library.
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 28, 2011
                                On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 09:22:52PM -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

                                > With Debian, if I need mysql support I simply install the extra package
                                > postfix-mysql, which depends on libmysqlclient. (This is the same
                                > procedure for acquiring pgsql, pcre, cdb, ldap, etc capability)
                                >
                                > So by installing the package postfix-mysql and libmysqlclient, am I
                                > violating a license agreement? If not, what's the difference, and why?

                                This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links
                                Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL
                                shared library. Whether this is allowed under the MySQL license is
                                not completely clear.

                                It is not a problem with Postgres or LDAP.

                                --
                                Viktor.
                              • Ralf Hildebrandt
                                ... What is the origin of Quanah ? ... Wasn t there also an issue with OpenSSL (at least it has been mentioned some time ago on this list). ... Agreed. I do
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
                                  * Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@...>:

                                  > Sorry, I apologize. Particularly as someone who sees my own name
                                  > often misspelled. ;)

                                  What is the origin of "Quanah"?

                                  > >position. I don't care if one flavor of "you must release source
                                  > >code" is better than another flavor. If I had the choice it then
                                  > >would be the same BSD licence that I slapped on my older tools.
                                  >
                                  > The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                  > link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix
                                  > functionality.

                                  Wasn't there also an issue with OpenSSL (at least it has been
                                  mentioned some time ago on this list).

                                  > I also think that the "flavor" option has some importance. If it
                                  > allows Postfix to be more widely used in a way that is comfortable to
                                  > IBM, then I think that is a good thing.

                                  Agreed. I do know that some RedHat releases had no maptype mysql
                                  (because of this?)

                                  --
                                  Ralf Hildebrandt
                                  Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
                                  Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
                                  Campus Benjamin Franklin
                                  Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
                                  Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
                                  ralf.hildebrandt@... | http://www.charite.de
                                • Ralf Hildebrandt
                                  ... Yes, but this functionality (splitting out maptypes) has been PATCHED into Postfix. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
                                    * Stan Hoeppner <stan@...>:

                                    > With Debian, if I need mysql support I simply install the extra package
                                    > postfix-mysql, which depends on libmysqlclient. (This is the same
                                    > procedure for acquiring pgsql, pcre, cdb, ldap, etc capability)

                                    Yes, but this functionality (splitting out maptypes) has been PATCHED
                                    into Postfix.

                                    --
                                    Ralf Hildebrandt
                                    Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
                                    Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
                                    Campus Benjamin Franklin
                                    Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
                                    Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
                                    ralf.hildebrandt@... | http://www.charite.de
                                  • Ralf Hildebrandt
                                    ... I m wondering if MariaDB (which is the fork of MySQL) could solve the problems: http://kb.askmonty.org/v/mariadb-license#mariadb-client-license
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
                                      * Victor Duchovni <Victor.Duchovni@...>:

                                      > This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links
                                      > Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL
                                      > shared library. Whether this is allowed under the MySQL license is
                                      > not completely clear.
                                      >
                                      > It is not a problem with Postgres or LDAP.

                                      I'm wondering if MariaDB (which is the fork of MySQL) could solve the
                                      problems:

                                      http://kb.askmonty.org/v/mariadb-license#mariadb-client-license
                                      http://mariadb.org/

                                      "MariaDB is a database server that offers drop-in replacement
                                      functionality for MySQL. MariaDB is built by some of the original
                                      authors of MySQL, with assistance from the broader community of Free
                                      and open source software developers. In addition to the core
                                      functionality of MySQL, MariaDB offers a rich set of feature
                                      enhancements including alternate storage engines, server
                                      optimizations, and patches."

                                      --
                                      Ralf Hildebrandt
                                      Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
                                      Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
                                      Campus Benjamin Franklin
                                      Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
                                      Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
                                      ralf.hildebrandt@... | http://www.charite.de
                                    • Reindl Harald
                                      ... seems so for fedora i had to take the srpm and rebuild it with mysql-support which can be enabled in the SPEC-file but is not enabled in binary builds i
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
                                        Am 01.03.2011 10:06, schrieb Ralf Hildebrandt:

                                        > Agreed. I do know that some RedHat releases had no maptype mysql
                                        > (because of this?)

                                        seems so

                                        for fedora i had to take the srpm and rebuild it with mysql-support which
                                        can be enabled in the SPEC-file but is not enabled in binary builds

                                        i think this is a godd solution because they must not think about
                                        possible licensce problems and a user who need it really can
                                        rebuild the srpm within 5 minutes
                                      • Matthias Andree
                                        ... Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from being used - but not the
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
                                          Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:

                                          > The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                          > link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.

                                          Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                                          license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                                          being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.

                                          If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                                          PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                                          worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                                          compliance.

                                          [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
                                        • lst_hoe02@kwsoft.de
                                          ... This will get you into flame-wars for sure... Andreas
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 1, 2011
                                            Zitat von Matthias Andree <matthias.andree@...>:

                                            > Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                                            >
                                            >> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                            >> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.
                                            >
                                            > Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                                            > license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                                            > being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
                                            >
                                            > If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                                            > PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                                            > worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                                            > compliance.
                                            >
                                            > [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
                                            >

                                            :-)

                                            This will get you into flame-wars for sure...

                                            Andreas
                                          • Quanah Gibson-Mount
                                            --On Tuesday, March 01, 2011 10:06 AM +0100 Ralf Hildebrandt ... No relation, and I have no known Native American
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
                                              --On Tuesday, March 01, 2011 10:06 AM +0100 Ralf Hildebrandt
                                              <Ralf.Hildebrandt@...> wrote:

                                              > * Quanah Gibson-Mount <quanah@...>:
                                              >
                                              >> Sorry, I apologize. Particularly as someone who sees my own name
                                              >> often misspelled. ;)
                                              >
                                              > What is the origin of "Quanah"?

                                              <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanah_Parker>

                                              No relation, and I have no known Native American blood. But my parents
                                              were impressed by him and his accomplishments.

                                              >> > position. I don't care if one flavor of "you must release source
                                              >> > code" is better than another flavor. If I had the choice it then
                                              >> > would be the same BSD licence that I slapped on my older tools.
                                              >>
                                              >> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                              >> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix
                                              >> functionality.
                                              >
                                              > Wasn't there also an issue with OpenSSL (at least it has been
                                              > mentioned some time ago on this list).

                                              I don't know. Certainly possible.

                                              >> I also think that the "flavor" option has some importance. If it
                                              >> allows Postfix to be more widely used in a way that is comfortable to
                                              >> IBM, then I think that is a good thing.
                                              >
                                              > Agreed. I do know that some RedHat releases had no maptype mysql
                                              > (because of this?)

                                              No idea.

                                              --Quanah


                                              --

                                              Quanah Gibson-Mount
                                              Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                                              Zimbra, Inc
                                              A Division of VMware, Inc.
                                              --------------------
                                              Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                                            • mouss
                                              ... fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and I m pushing for the same move at $dayjob and beyond .
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
                                                Le 01/03/2011 11:25, Matthias Andree a écrit :
                                                > Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                                                >
                                                >> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                                >> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.
                                                >
                                                > Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                                                > license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                                                > being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
                                                >
                                                > If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                                                > PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                                                > worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                                                > compliance.
                                                >
                                                > [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>

                                                fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and
                                                I'm pushing for the same move at $dayjob and "beyond".
                                              • mouss
                                                ... seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see what gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they ll get out with a great
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
                                                  Le 01/03/2011 10:09, Ralf Hildebrandt a écrit :
                                                  > * Victor Duchovni <Victor.Duchovni@...>:
                                                  >
                                                  >> This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links
                                                  >> Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL
                                                  >> shared library. Whether this is allowed under the MySQL license is
                                                  >> not completely clear.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> It is not a problem with Postgres or LDAP.
                                                  >
                                                  > I'm wondering if MariaDB (which is the fork of MySQL) could solve the
                                                  > problems:
                                                  >
                                                  > http://kb.askmonty.org/v/mariadb-license#mariadb-client-license
                                                  > http://mariadb.org/
                                                  >
                                                  > "MariaDB is a database server that offers drop-in replacement
                                                  > functionality for MySQL. MariaDB is built by some of the original
                                                  > authors of MySQL, with assistance from the broader community of Free
                                                  > and open source software developers. In addition to the core
                                                  > functionality of MySQL, MariaDB offers a rich set of feature
                                                  > enhancements including alternate storage engines, server
                                                  > optimizations, and patches."
                                                  >

                                                  seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see what
                                                  gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they'll get out
                                                  with a great success, or the project will die.
                                                • Ralf Hildebrandt
                                                  ... Yes. Promising, to say the least. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Mar 2, 2011
                                                    * mouss <mouss@...>:

                                                    > seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see
                                                    > what gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they'll get
                                                    > out with a great success, or the project will die.

                                                    Yes. Promising, to say the least.

                                                    --
                                                    Ralf Hildebrandt
                                                    Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk
                                                    Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
                                                    Campus Benjamin Franklin
                                                    Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin
                                                    Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962
                                                    ralf.hildebrandt@... | http://www.charite.de
                                                  • Randy Ramsdell
                                                    ... Looks like what Oracle wanted is working.
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Mar 3, 2011
                                                      mouss wrote:
                                                      > Le 01/03/2011 11:25, Matthias Andree a écrit :
                                                      >> Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                                      >>> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix functionality.
                                                      >> Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                                                      >> license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                                                      >> being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                                                      >> PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                                                      >> worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                                                      >> compliance.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
                                                      >
                                                      > fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and
                                                      > I'm pushing for the same move at $dayjob and "beyond".

                                                      Looks like what Oracle wanted is working.
                                                    • Charles Marcus
                                                      ... It s already been well over a year since it was forked. The announcement was made in May of 2009, and the first release version was in February of 2010...
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Mar 3, 2011
                                                        On 2011-03-02 5:10 PM, mouss wrote:
                                                        > Le 01/03/2011 10:09, Ralf Hildebrandt a écrit :
                                                        >> "MariaDB is a database server that offers drop-in replacement
                                                        >> functionality for MySQL. MariaDB is built by some of the original
                                                        >> authors of MySQL, with assistance from the broader community of Free
                                                        >> and open source software developers. In addition to the core
                                                        >> functionality of MySQL, MariaDB offers a rich set of feature
                                                        >> enhancements including alternate storage engines, server
                                                        >> optimizations, and patches."

                                                        > seems promissing, but a fork like that requires a year or so to see what
                                                        > gets out of it. so either the guys are very good and they'll get out
                                                        > with a great success, or the project will die.

                                                        It's already been well over a year since it was forked. The announcement
                                                        was made in May of 2009, and the first release version was in February
                                                        of 2010...

                                                        http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2010/03/time-flies-one-year-of-mariadb.html

                                                        --

                                                        Best regards,

                                                        Charles
                                                      • mouss
                                                        ... I don t understand what you are trying to say, but most importantly I don t care for what Oracle wanted . if they acquired mysql, it s because mysql guys
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Mar 3, 2011
                                                          Le 03/03/2011 15:39, Randy Ramsdell a écrit :
                                                          > mouss wrote:
                                                          >> Le 01/03/2011 11:25, Matthias Andree a écrit :
                                                          >>> Am 28.02.2011 23:57, schrieb Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                                                          >>>
                                                          >>>> The main issue I see at the moment really is the inability to legally
                                                          >>>> link Postfix to MySQL, removing a valuable piece of Postfix
                                                          >>>> functionality.
                                                          >>> Not a loss. If MySQL and Postfix turn out to be incompatible
                                                          >>> license-wise, this prevents one particular SQL *implementation* from
                                                          >>> being used - but not the functionality (SQL lookups) per se.
                                                          >>>
                                                          >>> If you cannot or do not want to use MySQL due to licensing, use
                                                          >>> PostgreSQL. It not only removes the license worries [1], but also
                                                          >>> worries around table storage engines, transactional modes, and ACID
                                                          >>> compliance.
                                                          >>>
                                                          >>> [1] <http://www.postgresql.org/about/licence>
                                                          >>
                                                          >> fully agreed. I started moving out of mysql after oracle acquistion. and
                                                          >> I'm pushing for the same move at $dayjob and "beyond".
                                                          >
                                                          > Looks like what Oracle wanted is working.

                                                          I don't understand what you are trying to say, but most importantly I
                                                          don't care for what Oracle "wanted". if they acquired mysql, it's
                                                          because mysql guys agreed. same for sleepycat. it's becoming common for
                                                          people to go open source to get a community of users, then go commercial.
                                                        • Quanah Gibson-Mount
                                                          --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:32 PM -0500 Victor Duchovni ... After filing a bug with RedHat about their GPL violation, they got on the phone with Oracle,
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Mar 22, 2011
                                                            --On Monday, February 28, 2011 11:32 PM -0500 Victor Duchovni
                                                            <Victor.Duchovni@...> wrote:

                                                            > On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 09:22:52PM -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
                                                            >
                                                            >> With Debian, if I need mysql support I simply install the extra package
                                                            >> postfix-mysql, which depends on libmysqlclient. (This is the same
                                                            >> procedure for acquiring pgsql, pcre, cdb, ldap, etc capability)
                                                            >>
                                                            >> So by installing the package postfix-mysql and libmysqlclient, am I
                                                            >> violating a license agreement? If not, what's the difference, and why?
                                                            >
                                                            > This is a legal question. The postfix-mysql loadable object links
                                                            > Postfix table driver code available under the IPL against the MySQL
                                                            > shared library. Whether this is allowed under the MySQL license is
                                                            > not completely clear.
                                                            >
                                                            > It is not a problem with Postgres or LDAP.

                                                            After filing a bug with RedHat about their GPL violation, they got on the
                                                            phone with Oracle, and Oracle updated the MySQL FOSS exception list to
                                                            include IBM Public License 1.0. So this is no longer a problem for anyone.

                                                            --Quanah


                                                            --

                                                            Quanah Gibson-Mount
                                                            Sr. Member of Technical Staff
                                                            Zimbra, Inc
                                                            A Division of VMware, Inc.
                                                            --------------------
                                                            Zimbra :: the leader in open source messaging and collaboration
                                                          • Wietse Venema
                                                            ... Thanks. That is one less thing to worry about. Wietse
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Mar 22, 2011
                                                              Quanah Gibson-Mount:
                                                              > After filing a bug with RedHat about their GPL violation, they got on the
                                                              > phone with Oracle, and Oracle updated the MySQL FOSS exception list to
                                                              > include IBM Public License 1.0. So this is no longer a problem for anyone.

                                                              Thanks. That is one less thing to worry about.

                                                              Wietse
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