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customized relocated bounces

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  • mailinglists@belfin.ch
    Hi is there a way how to customize relocated bounces in a similar fashion as described in man 5 bounce? Thanks, Philipp
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
      Hi

      is there a way how to customize "relocated" bounces in a similar fashion
      as described in man 5 bounce?

      Thanks,
      Philipp
    • Wietse Venema
      ... There are no relocated bounce messages. There are bounce , delayed , success and trace messages. The content of relocated error (not bounce!)
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
        mailinglists@...:
        > Hi
        >
        > is there a way how to customize "relocated" bounces in a similar fashion
        > as described in man 5 bounce?

        There are no "relocated" bounce messages. There are "bounce",
        "delayed", "success" and "trace" messages.

        The content of "relocated" error (not bounce!) messages is configurable
        with relocated_maps.

        Wietse
      • mailinglists@belfin.ch
        ... Hmm... looking up man 5 relocated: The optional relocated(5) table provides the information that is used in user has moved to new_location bounce
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
          > mailinglists@...:
          >> Hi
          >>
          >> is there a way how to customize "relocated" bounces in a similar fashion
          >> as described in man 5 bounce?
          >
          > There are no "relocated" bounce messages. There are "bounce",
          > "delayed", "success" and "trace" messages.

          Hmm... looking up man 5 relocated:
          The optional relocated(5) table provides the information
          that is used in "user has moved to new_location" bounce
          messages.

          > The content of "relocated" error (not bounce!) messages is configurable
          > with relocated_maps.

          I know.
          Is there a way to customize the relocated bounce message?
          The thing is that some of our users complain about the the way the bounce
          message is presented to the sender. At the sender's side people don't seem
          to read (or understand?) the error and thus they miss the recipient's new
          address.

          Philipp


          > Wietse
          >
        • Charles Marcus
          ... Since postfix isn t the MTA that generates the actual bounce message, the answer is no. The server that generates the actual bounce message is the SENDING
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
            On 2010-04-06 7:54 AM, mailinglists@... wrote:
            > Is there a way to customize the relocated bounce message?

            Since postfix isn't the MTA that generates the actual bounce message,
            the answer is no.

            The server that generates the actual bounce message is the SENDING server.

            --

            Best regards,

            Charles
          • Wietse Venema
            ... Postfix has configurable bounce , delayed , success and trace template text. Postfix has configurable relocated_maps responses. Postfix appends
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
              mailinglists@...:
              > Is there a way to customize the relocated bounce message?

              Postfix has configurable "bounce", "delayed", "success" and "trace"
              template text.

              Postfix has configurable "relocated_maps" responses.

              Postfix appends "relocated_maps" responses AT THE END of the "bounce"
              delivery status notifications, just like Postfix appends remote
              SMTP server responses, responses from local delivery agents, and
              so on AT THE END of the "bounce" delivery status notifications.

              Therefore, all the ingredients of the "relocated bounce message"
              are configurable as of several Postfix releases.

              Wietse
            • mailinglists@belfin.ch
              ... do you mean by this the Section Table Format in http://www.postfix.org/relocated.5.html? If yes, I will have to (ab)use the vacation functionality to get
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
                > mailinglists@...:
                >> Is there a way to customize the relocated bounce message?
                >
                > Postfix has configurable "bounce", "delayed", "success" and "trace"
                > template text.
                >
                > Postfix has configurable "relocated_maps" responses

                do you mean by this the Section 'Table Format' in
                http://www.postfix.org/relocated.5.html?

                If yes, I will have to (ab)use the vacation functionality to get
                customizable relocation messages that the senders will read.
                If such messages look like mailerdaemon error messages (which technically
                spoken - that's what they in fact are) I am afraid non-IT people might not
                feel addressed because it might look too technical to them. Next, users
                come to us and ask us stuff which should be clear already from the
                mailer-daemon bounced email.

                Talking about bounce templates, "Recipient address rejected: User unknown"
                and "Recipient address rejected: User has moved to" seem to use the same
                bounce template. Can I separate this?
                Can I use for relocated a template like:

                failure_template = <<EOF
                Charset: us-ascii
                From: $recipient
                Subject: I have a new email address
                Postmaster-Subject: Postmaster Copy: Undelivered Mail

                Hi

                thank you for your email. I don't work here anymore. Please find my new
                address information below.

                best regards

                EOF
                <DIAGNOSTIC STUFF AT THE END>
                <user@here>: host myhost[ip.address] said: 550 5.1.6
                <user@here>: Recipient address rejected: User has moved to
                newAddress@...
                (in reply to RCPT TO command)
                </DIAGNOSTIC STUFF AT THE END>


                Philipp
              • Wietse Venema
                ... I think already mentioned this before, but perhaps you missed it. Postfix appends the relocated maps non-delivery response to the same bounce template
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
                  mailinglists@...:
                  > > mailinglists@...:
                  > >> Is there a way to customize the relocated bounce message?
                  > >
                  > > Postfix has configurable "bounce", "delayed", "success" and "trace"
                  > > template text.
                  > >
                  > > Postfix has configurable "relocated_maps" responses
                  ...
                  > Talking about bounce templates, "Recipient address rejected: User unknown"
                  > and "Recipient address rejected: User has moved to" seem to use the same
                  > bounce template.

                  I think already mentioned this before, but perhaps you missed it.

                  Postfix appends the "relocated maps" non-delivery response to the
                  same "bounce" template that Postfix also uses for non-delivery
                  responses from a remote SMTP server or from a local delivery agent.

                  This is actually a symptom of a general principle, namely, that
                  Postfix uses the SAME bounce template for ALL non-delivery responses.

                  Wietse
                • mailinglists@belfin.ch
                  ... Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to point out. We have several different reasons why mail is not accepted by the recipient (user unknown, user
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 6, 2010
                    > mailinglists@...:
                    >> > mailinglists@...:
                    >> >> Is there a way to customize the relocated bounce message?
                    >> >
                    >> > Postfix has configurable "bounce", "delayed", "success" and "trace"
                    >> > template text.
                    >> >
                    >> > Postfix has configurable "relocated_maps" responses
                    > ...
                    >> Talking about bounce templates, "Recipient address rejected: User
                    >> unknown"
                    >> and "Recipient address rejected: User has moved to" seem to use the same
                    >> bounce template.
                    >
                    > I think already mentioned this before, but perhaps you missed it.
                    >
                    > Postfix appends the "relocated maps" non-delivery response to the
                    > same "bounce" template that Postfix also uses for non-delivery
                    > responses from a remote SMTP server or from a local delivery agent.
                    >
                    > This is actually a symptom of a general principle, namely, that
                    > Postfix uses the SAME bounce template for ALL non-delivery responses.

                    Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to point out.
                    We have several different reasons why mail is not accepted by the
                    recipient (user unknown, user relocated, etc... you name it). And as the
                    recipient you would like to tell automated why. That works perfectly and
                    that is not the issue.

                    But as we use the same template for all bounce messages (which have
                    various reasons), I as the rejected sender, have to read the whole bounce
                    message until I get to know why my email was rejected. Unfortunately, the
                    reason is stated at the end of the bounce message in a technical manner
                    perfectly suited for sysadmins. However, our users who receive these
                    bounce messages are not sysadmins. We are lucky if they somehow are
                    related to technical topics and most lucky if they are willing to read and
                    understand the reason why it was rejected. But most often they just ask us
                    sysadmins. It does not need to be like that.

                    I have learned today something about (bounce) templates. I now know that
                    there is only one bounce template covering all types of bounces. This one
                    template can be modified. But I cannot create for each type of bounce
                    reason a bounce message that explains "the why" in short words non-IT
                    people understand at first glance. "... understand at first glance", I
                    believe, is the key message I am trying to emphasize.

                    Philipp
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