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  • Trigve
    Hi, I m using getmail (using cron) for fetching the mails (from the ISP server) and then letting postfix to manage them. In postfix I have set
    Message 1 of 11 , May 25, 2009
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      Hi,
      I'm using getmail (using cron) for fetching the mails (from the ISP server) and
      then letting postfix to manage them. In postfix I have set "message_size_limit"
      to 10 MB. So when getmail retrieve the message (that is bigger than 10 MB) and
      send it to postfix (thought sendmail), sendmail returns the error and the error
      appear in the log (something like file too big, see the log output). So the
      message isn't processed, no "bounce" is generated and the messages will stay
      server so in the "next round" of getmail fetchm this procedure repeat until I
      externally delete the mail from server. So my question is if it is possible to
      generate some bounce message if mail is bigger than 10 MB (mail exceed
      message_size_limit)?

      Log:
      --------
      2009-05-23 00:00:01 Initializing MultidropPOP3SSLRetriever:[MAIL OMITTED]:995:
      May 23 00:00:52 mailwork postfix/postdrop[73013]: warning: uid=5003: File too
      large
      May 23 00:00:52 mailwork postfix/sendmail[73012]: fatal: [MAIL OMITTED](5003):
      message file too big
      2009-05-23 00:00:52 Delivery error (command sendmail 73012 error (75, postdrop:
      warning: uid=5003: File too large
      sendmail: fatal: [MAIL OMITTED](5003): message file too big))
      2009-05-23 00:00:52 msg 1/1 (12945705 bytes) msgid UID27053-1188378705 from
      <[MAIL OMITTED]> to <[MAIL OMITED]>

      getmail config (server, login, ... omitted):
      --------
      [retriever]
      type = MultidropPOP3SSLRetriever
      envelope_recipient = X-Original-To:1
      [destination]
      type = MDA_external
      path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
      arguments = ("-f %(sender)","-t","%(recipient)")
      user = getmail
      group = getmail
      [options]
      verbose = 2
      delete = true
      message_log = /var/log/maillog

      thanks Trigve
    • mouss
      ... This is suspicious. sendmail doesn t return an error to getmail, so getmail should think the message was processed. in short, there should be no next
      Message 2 of 11 , May 25, 2009
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        Trigve a écrit :
        > Hi,
        > I'm using getmail (using cron) for fetching the mails (from the ISP server) and
        > then letting postfix to manage them. In postfix I have set "message_size_limit"
        > to 10 MB. So when getmail retrieve the message (that is bigger than 10 MB) and
        > send it to postfix (thought sendmail), sendmail returns the error and the error
        > appear in the log (something like file too big, see the log output). So the
        > message isn't processed, no "bounce" is generated and the messages will stay
        > server so in the "next round" of getmail

        This is suspicious. sendmail doesn't return an error to getmail, so
        getmail should think the message was processed. in short, there should
        be no "next round".

        > fetchm this procedure repeat until I
        > externally delete the mail from server. So my question is if it is possible to
        > generate some bounce message if mail is bigger than 10 MB (mail exceed
        > message_size_limit)?
        >

        since the message was already accepted by one of your servers, it is too
        late to generate a bounce, because this will cause backscatter (if the
        sender is forged).

        in short, you need to accept such messages since your ISP/MSP accept them.

        > Log:
        > --------
        > 2009-05-23 00:00:01 Initializing MultidropPOP3SSLRetriever:[MAIL OMITTED]:995:
        > May 23 00:00:52 mailwork postfix/postdrop[73013]: warning: uid=5003: File too
        > large
        > May 23 00:00:52 mailwork postfix/sendmail[73012]: fatal: [MAIL OMITTED](5003):
        > message file too big
        > 2009-05-23 00:00:52 Delivery error (command sendmail 73012 error (75, postdrop:
        > warning: uid=5003: File too large
        > sendmail: fatal: [MAIL OMITTED](5003): message file too big))
        > 2009-05-23 00:00:52 msg 1/1 (12945705 bytes) msgid UID27053-1188378705 from
        > <[MAIL OMITTED]> to <[MAIL OMITED]>
        >
        > getmail config (server, login, ... omitted):
        > --------
        > [retriever]
        > type = MultidropPOP3SSLRetriever
        > envelope_recipient = X-Original-To:1
        > [destination]
        > type = MDA_external
        > path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
        > arguments = ("-f %(sender)","-t","%(recipient)")
        > user = getmail
        > group = getmail
        > [options]
        > verbose = 2
        > delete = true
        > message_log = /var/log/maillog
        >
        > thanks Trigve
        >
      • Wietse Venema
        ... No MTA, including Postfix, sends bounce messages for mail that it does not accept. Wietse
        Message 3 of 11 , May 25, 2009
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          Trigve:
          > May 23 00:00:52 mailwork postfix/sendmail[73012]: fatal: [MAIL OMITTED](5003):
          > message file too big

          No MTA, including Postfix, sends bounce messages for mail that it
          does not accept.

          Wietse
        • Corey Chandler
          ... I m pretty sure I ve seen qmail do exactly this... :-p Some variation of its default accept, then bounce methodology... -- Corey Chandler / KB1JWQ
          Message 4 of 11 , May 25, 2009
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            Wietse Venema wrote:
            >
            > No MTA, including Postfix, sends bounce messages for mail that it
            > does not accept.
            >
            > Wietse
            >
            I'm pretty sure I've seen qmail do exactly this... :-p Some variation
            of its default "accept, then bounce" methodology...

            --
            Corey Chandler / KB1JWQ
            Living Legend / Systems Exorcist
            Today's Excuse: Lightning strikes
          • Ralf Hildebrandt
            ... In that case it accepted it, then bounced it. Wietse said No MTA sends bounce messages for mail that it does not accept . Which is a joke. Since it s not
            Message 5 of 11 , May 25, 2009
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              * Corey Chandler <lists@...>:
              > Wietse Venema wrote:
              >>
              >> No MTA, including Postfix, sends bounce messages for mail that it
              >> does not accept.
              >>
              >> Wietse
              >>
              > I'm pretty sure I've seen qmail do exactly this... :-p Some variation of
              > its default "accept, then bounce" methodology...

              In that case it accepted it, then bounced it.
              Wietse said "No MTA sends bounce messages for mail that it does not
              accept". Which is a joke. Since it's not possible.
            • Trigve Siver
              Hi, thanks for reply ... As you can see in getmail configuration getmail is calling sendmail. AFAIK if postfix reject the mail (because of too large) sendmail
              Message 6 of 11 , May 26, 2009
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                Hi,
                thanks for reply

                > This is suspicious. sendmail doesn't return an error to getmail, so
                > getmail should think the message was processed. in short, there should
                > be no "next round".

                As you can see in getmail configuration getmail is calling sendmail. AFAIK if postfix reject the mail (because of too large) sendmail returns error code and so getmail don't delete the mail from ISP and do nothing.

                > since the message was already accepted by one of your servers, it is too
                > late to generate a bounce, because this will cause backscatter (if the
                > sender is forged).
                >
                > in short, you need to accept such messages since your ISP/MSP accept them.

                Yes but my ISP will accept also big messages and I don't want to process messages bigger than 10 MB for instance. Yes the backscatter could be problem but now I have problem that mails bigger than 10 MB will stay on ISP server forever and I can do nothing about it (I can delete it from ISP webmail interface but thi is not a rela solution).

                thanks Trigve
              • Trigve Siver
                Hi, ... Yes something like this would be great, accept and bounce if message is too big. ... thanks Trigve
                Message 7 of 11 , May 26, 2009
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                  Hi,



                  > I'm pretty sure I've seen qmail do exactly this... :-p Some variation
                  > of its default "accept, then bounce" methodology...

                  Yes something like this would be great, accept and bounce if message is too big.

                  > --
                  > Corey Chandler / KB1JWQ
                  > Living Legend / Systems Exorcist
                  > Today's Excuse: Lightning strikes

                  thanks Trigve
                • Charles Marcus
                  ... Actually, imho, backscatter should not be that big of a problem here... I don t think I ve *ever* seen a spam that big, so the vast majority (if not all)
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 26, 2009
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                    On 5/26/2009, Trigve Siver (trigves@...) wrote:
                    > Yes but my ISP will accept also big messages and I don't want to
                    > process messages bigger than 10 MB for instance. Yes the backscatter
                    > could be problem

                    Actually, imho, backscatter should not be that big of a problem here...
                    I don't think I've *ever* seen a spam that big, so the vast majority (if
                    not all) of the mail bounced would be legit in this case.

                    --

                    Best regards,

                    Charles
                  • mouss
                    ... what you could do is run a script that - checks the message size. if it s too large, store it somewhere for review - else, run sendmail in any case, don t
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 26, 2009
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                      Trigve Siver a écrit :
                      > Hi,
                      > thanks for reply
                      >
                      >> This is suspicious. sendmail doesn't return an error to getmail, so
                      >> getmail should think the message was processed. in short, there should
                      >> be no "next round".
                      >
                      > As you can see in getmail configuration getmail is calling sendmail. AFAIK if postfix reject the mail (because of too large) sendmail returns error code and so getmail don't delete the mail from ISP and do nothing.
                      >
                      >> since the message was already accepted by one of your servers, it is too
                      >> late to generate a bounce, because this will cause backscatter (if the
                      >> sender is forged).
                      >>
                      >> in short, you need to accept such messages since your ISP/MSP accept them.
                      >
                      > Yes but my ISP will accept also big messages and I don't want to process messages bigger than 10 MB for instance. Yes the backscatter could be problem but now I have problem that mails bigger than 10 MB will stay on ISP server forever and I can do nothing about it (I can delete it from ISP webmail interface but thi is not a rela solution).
                      >

                      what you could do is run a script that
                      - checks the message size. if it's too large, store it somewhere for review
                      - else, run sendmail

                      in any case, don't bounce without some sort of verification (some
                      anti-spam checks or a manual review).

                      If you are willing to do more scripting, consider putting the large
                      messages on a web server and letting the user get them there. this needs
                      some work (create random URL, notify user, ... purge after some time,
                      ...).
                    • Trigve Siver
                      Hi, ... This solution looks nice but I don t have much experience with scripting nor do I have so much time to experiment with it. As I wrote in a previous
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 27, 2009
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                        Hi,

                        > From: mouss <mouss@...>

                        > what you could do is run a script that
                        > - checks the message size. if it's too large, store it somewhere for review
                        > - else, run sendmail
                        >
                        > in any case, don't bounce without some sort of verification (some
                        > anti-spam checks or a manual review).
                        >
                        > If you are willing to do more scripting, consider putting the large
                        > messages on a web server and letting the user get them there. this needs
                        > some work (create random URL, notify user, ... purge after some time,
                        > ...).

                        This solution looks nice but I don't have much experience with scripting nor do I have so much time to experiment with it. As I wrote in a previous mail it will be great if postfix have some option to accept mail and than bounce it back. This problem with big messages arise only 3-5 for a year and till now it wasn't spam.

                        thanks

                        Trigve
                      • Victor Duchovni
                        ... Just set your message_size_limit larger than the ISP s limit and you are done. If you want Postfix to bounce large mail, configure an SMTP nexthop (perhaps
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 27, 2009
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                          On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:35:28AM -0700, Trigve Siver wrote:

                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > > From: mouss <mouss@...>
                          >
                          > > what you could do is run a script that
                          > > - checks the message size. if it's too large, store it somewhere for review
                          > > - else, run sendmail
                          > >
                          > > in any case, don't bounce without some sort of verification (some
                          > > anti-spam checks or a manual review).
                          > >
                          > > If you are willing to do more scripting, consider putting the large
                          > > messages on a web server and letting the user get them there. this needs
                          > > some work (create random URL, notify user, ... purge after some time,
                          > > ...).
                          >
                          > This solution looks nice but I don't have much experience with scripting nor do I have so much time to experiment with it. As I wrote in a previous mail it will be great if postfix have some option to accept mail and than bounce it back. This problem with big messages arise only 3-5 for a year and till now it wasn't spam.

                          Just set your message_size_limit larger than the ISP's limit and you are
                          done. If you want Postfix to bounce large mail, configure an SMTP nexthop
                          (perhaps a content_filter) whose limit is smaller.

                          --
                          Viktor.

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