Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New Guy

Expand Messages
  • Walter Hansen
    Hi, I m Walter from Northern California. I d never heard of these boats before Panyo and was intrigued. Then I was reading an article in MAKE magazine about
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 15, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi, I'm Walter from Northern California. I'd never heard of these boats
      before Panyo and was intrigued. Then I was reading an article in MAKE
      magazine about them and started digging.

      I just ordered a couple buck one off ebay $10 with shipping. I'd like to
      build a larger one and make it R/C controllable. I'm used to R/C. I
      currently battle a 1/144 scale H-39 German Battleship. Here's a picture
      of it firing on the HMS Rodeny:
      http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=September-2011&id=021_G&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php

      Anyway I'd like to build a somewhat large ship something 20-30 inches or
      so. Actually thinking of making something similar to a tramp steamer I
      have 24". I'm thinking of bundling the tubes together at the exit point
      so that they provide a better thrust vector across a rudder perhaps a
      half inch further back.

      I should be able to make a boiler out of copper pipe parts and I'm
      thinking a quad pipe 1/4" ID would be simple to make, not quite as
      simple as two pipes, but still relatively simple. Also it should have a
      little bit more power. I hope for enough power to not just be blown
      around a pond in light winds. A speed of 100' in 45 seconds would be
      perfect. Have to see about the aluminum sheet at the home improvement store.

      Here's a pic of two of the little tramp steamers. I'm thinking they
      would make a cute pop pop boat. I'm thinking undercut the stern
      significantly so that the pipes can run straight back out followed by
      the rudder.

      http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=Campaign08&id=WWCC1008_347Crop&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php
    • Pete
      Welcome Walter, New blood! New ideas! Great! There has been lots of talk for and against larger boats. I would suggest that you explore this site for info and
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 15, 2011
      • 0 Attachment

        Welcome Walter,

        New blood! New ideas! Great!

        There has been lots of talk for and against larger boats. I would suggest that you explore this site for info and ideas that might steer you in the right direction. Daryl has done lots of experimenting with engine & hull designs. He would be a good contact. Jean-Yves has done a lot of more scientific research on pop-pop engines. He's another good source. Then there are many good ideas, including RC versions, from other members. Good luck and please keep us post on your work.

         


        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Walter Hansen <gandalf@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, I'm Walter from Northern California. I'd never heard of these boats
        > before Panyo and was intrigued. Then I was reading an article in MAKE
        > magazine about them and started digging.
        >
        > I just ordered a couple buck one off ebay $10 with shipping. I'd like to
        > build a larger one and make it R/C controllable. I'm used to R/C. I
        > currently battle a 1/144 scale H-39 German Battleship. Here's a picture
        > of it firing on the HMS Rodeny:
        > http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=September-2011&id=021_G&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php
        >
        > Anyway I'd like to build a somewhat large ship something 20-30 inches or
        > so. Actually thinking of making something similar to a tramp steamer I
        > have 24". I'm thinking of bundling the tubes together at the exit point
        > so that they provide a better thrust vector across a rudder perhaps a
        > half inch further back.
        >
        > I should be able to make a boiler out of copper pipe parts and I'm
        > thinking a quad pipe 1/4" ID would be simple to make, not quite as
        > simple as two pipes, but still relatively simple. Also it should have a
        > little bit more power. I hope for enough power to not just be blown
        > around a pond in light winds. A speed of 100' in 45 seconds would be
        > perfect. Have to see about the aluminum sheet at the home improvement store.
        >
        > Here's a pic of two of the little tramp steamers. I'm thinking they
        > would make a cute pop pop boat. I'm thinking undercut the stern
        > significantly so that the pipes can run straight back out followed by
        > the rudder.
        >
        > http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=Campaign08&id=WWCC1008_347Crop&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php
        >

      • papypp44
        Hi Walter, Bundling the tubes together at the exit point would be detrimental for the sucking phase of the pop-pop cycle. A quad pipe 1/4 ID seems reasonable
        Message 3 of 6 , Dec 15, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Walter,
          Bundling the tubes together at the exit point would be detrimental for the sucking phase of the pop-pop cycle.
          A quad pipe 1/4" ID seems reasonable for the size of boat you want, but not to reach 100' in 45 seconds. That is today the best performance for a very light and thin boat fitted with a 7 tube engine. Built by Daryl. Video available on utube.

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Welcome Walter,
          >
          > New blood! New ideas! Great!
          >
          > There has been lots of talk for and against larger boats. I would
          > suggest that you explore this site for info and ideas that might steer
          > you in the right direction. Daryl has done lots of experimenting with
          > engine & hull designs. He would be a good contact. Jean-Yves has done a
          > lot of more scientific research on pop-pop engines. He's another good
          > source. Then there are many good ideas, including RC versions, from
          > other members. Good luck and please keep us post on your work.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Walter Hansen <gandalf@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi, I'm Walter from Northern California. I'd never heard of these
          > boats
          > > before Panyo and was intrigued. Then I was reading an article in MAKE
          > > magazine about them and started digging.
          > >
          > > I just ordered a couple buck one off ebay $10 with shipping. I'd like
          > to
          > > build a larger one and make it R/C controllable. I'm used to R/C. I
          > > currently battle a 1/144 scale H-39 German Battleship. Here's a
          > picture
          > > of it firing on the HMS Rodeny:
          > >
          > http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=September-20\
          > 11&id=021_G&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php
          > >
          > > Anyway I'd like to build a somewhat large ship something 20-30 inches
          > or
          > > so. Actually thinking of making something similar to a tramp steamer I
          > > have 24". I'm thinking of bundling the tubes together at the exit
          > point
          > > so that they provide a better thrust vector across a rudder perhaps a
          > > half inch further back.
          > >
          > > I should be able to make a boiler out of copper pipe parts and I'm
          > > thinking a quad pipe 1/4" ID would be simple to make, not quite as
          > > simple as two pipes, but still relatively simple. Also it should have
          > a
          > > little bit more power. I hope for enough power to not just be blown
          > > around a pond in light winds. A speed of 100' in 45 seconds would be
          > > perfect. Have to see about the aluminum sheet at the home improvement
          > store.
          > >
          > > Here's a pic of two of the little tramp steamers. I'm thinking they
          > > would make a cute pop pop boat. I'm thinking undercut the stern
          > > significantly so that the pipes can run straight back out followed by
          > > the rudder.
          > >
          > >
          > http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=Campaign08&i\
          > d=WWCC1008_347Crop&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php
          > >
          >
        • gandalf@sonic.net
          I was wondering about this although I ve seen Daryl has done this on one or two boats. By placing the thrust in a closed area the flow over the rudder will
          Message 4 of 6 , Dec 15, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I was wondering about this although I've seen Daryl has done this on one or two boats. By placing the thrust in a closed area the flow over the rudder will increase giving what is known as rudder authority. In a typical ship design you will see the rudder or rudders are almost always directly behind the props. Rudders without prop flow are much, much less effective which is why I think Daryl finally went with a jet vector thrusting steering mechanism on his R/C boat. I'm thinking that the bundled tubes will be less effective at providing power, but that the bundling will give superior rudder performance. It also may be a case where a little space between the pipes radically improves performance and I'm not ruling out some sort of spacers.

            I was initially thinking of bundling 7 pipes but I now think this is overly ambitious:

            oo
            ooo
            oo

            That's probably way to many for a first try at making something like this and fitting those in would be difficult. I'm now thinking of a four pipe arrangement:

            o
            oo
            o

            I'm not interested in sound unless it's really minor so that should help with the power as well. Thinking about it a small threaded nipple soldered to the boiler could be used to add or remove a sounder. It could be normally capped although I don't know how well it would seal. It'd probably need some sort of heatproof gasket.

            Although 100 feet in 45 seconds is desirable, checking the math it's not realistic (3.3mph) although I would swear that it was less than that and I think Daryl's fast boats look faster than one of my electrics tuned to 100'/45s. Perhaps my math is screwed up or it's a perspective thing with the circle. However the speed is not really of great importance, I really just want enough that a gentle breeze doesn't push the ship to the far side of the pond.

            The boilers you guys make look like the accumulators we make for our guns.

            Here's a picture of the front gun for my IJN Haguro. The copper V piece in the back is the accumulator I made to fit tightly in the narrow hull. The job of the accumulator is to hold a supply of compressed air (or CO2) that is then rapidly discharged through the gun barrel. Am I wrong in thinking that a design like this with the thrust tubes coming off it would make a nice boiler?
            http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=Construction&id=IMG_2968&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php



            (imagine a cute or dirty tagline here)

            On Thu 15/12/11 4:17 AM , "papypp44" papypp44@... sent:
            >  
            >
            > Hi Walter,
            > Bundling the tubes together at the exit point would be detrimental for the
            > sucking phase of the pop-pop cycle.
            > A quad pipe 1/4" ID seems reasonable for the size of boat you want, but
            > not to reach 100' in 45 seconds. That is today the best performance for a
            > very light and thin boat fitted with a 7 tube engine. Built by Daryl. Video
            > available on utube.
            >
            > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Welcome Walter,
            > >
            > > New blood! New ideas! Great!
            > >
            > > There has been lots of talk for and against larger boats. I would
            > > suggest that you explore this site for info and ideas that might steer
            > > you in the right direction. Daryl has done lots of experimenting with
            > > engine & hull designs. He would be a good contact. Jean-Yves has done a
            > > lot of more scientific research on pop-pop engines. He's another good
            > > source. Then there are many good ideas, including RC versions, from
            > > other members. Good luck and please keep us post on your work.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Walter Hansen
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi, I'm Walter from Northern California. I'd never heard of these
            > > boats
            > > > before Panyo and was intrigued. Then I was reading an article in MAKE
            > > > magazine about them and started digging.
            > > >
            > > > I just ordered a couple buck one off ebay $10 with shipping. I'd like
            > > to
            > > > build a larger one and make it R/C controllable. I'm used to R/C. I
            > > > currently battle a 1/144 scale H-39 German Battleship. Here's a
            > > picture
            > > > of it firing on the HMS Rodeny:
            > > >
            > > http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=September-20
            > > 11&id=021_G&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85&include=view_photo.php
            > > >
            > > > Anyway I'd like to build a somewhat large ship something 20-30 inches
            > > or
            > > > so. Actually thinking of making something similar to a tramp steamer I
            > > > have 24". I'm thinking of bundling the tubes together at the exit
            > > point
            > > > so that they provide a better thrust vector across a rudder perhaps a
            > > > half inch further back.
            > > >
            > > > I should be able to make a boiler out of copper pipe parts and I'm
            > > > thinking a quad pipe 1/4" ID would be simple to make, not quite as
            > > > simple as two pipes, but still relatively simple. Also it should have
            > > a
            > > > little bit more power. I hope for enough power to not just be blown
            > > > around a pond in light winds. A speed of 100' in 45 seconds would be
            > > > perfect. Have to see about the aluminum sheet at the home improvement
            > > store.
            > > >
            > > > Here's a pic of two of the little tramp steamers. I'm thinking they
            > > > would make a cute pop pop boat. I'm thinking undercut the stern
            > > > significantly so that the pipes can run straight back out followed by
            > > > the rudder.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > http://www.westernwarshipcombat.com/index.php?set_albumName=Campaign08&i
            > > d=WWCC1008_347Crop&option=com_gallery&Itemid=85 height: 0;">
            >
            > Links:
            > ------
            > [1]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcTEwbmFt
            > BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MTI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRtc2dJZAMzMDY
            > 4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyMzk1MTQyOA--?act=reply[2]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZWVhbzNq
            > BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MTI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRzZWMDZnRyBHN
            > sawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMjM5NTE0Mjg-[3]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/message/3065;_ylc=X3oDMTM1
            > ZjE5bXZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MTI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRtc2d
            > JZAMzMDY4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyMzk1MTQyOAR0cGNJZAMzMDY1[4]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnMTdpc
            > mM2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MTI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRzZWMDdnRs
            > BHNsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMzIzOTUxNDI4?o=6[5]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJoaTAxZDI
            > xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MTI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRzZWMDdnRsBH
            > NsawN2bGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTMyMzk1MTQyOA--[6]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pop-pop-steamboats;_ylc=X3oDMTJmN2JkODZlBF9TA
            > zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4MTI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2
            > Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMjM5NTE0Mjg-[7]
            > http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15oec8imj/M=493064.14543979.14562481.132984
            > 30/D=groups/S=1705063511:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1323958628/L=b54873b4-2716-11e1-b
            > d18-eb8b74d25443/B=3dkTM0oGYrU-/J=1323951428226862/K=7G9MJ265uSrW2duBo904Qg
            > /A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj[8]
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlM3NudGZuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE4M
            > TI2ODM0BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MzUxMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMyMzk1MTQy
            > OA--[9] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • gandalf@sonic.net
            Oh, the other idea I have is to build the burner to provide variable heat so that a simple slide could increase or decrease the heat. My idea for doing this is
            Message 5 of 6 , Dec 15, 2011
            • 1 Attachment
            • 42 KB
            Oh, the other idea I have is to build the burner to provide variable heat so that a simple slide could increase or decrease the heat. My idea for doing this is to have the wick (or wicks) laying horizontally in a brass tube with the top cut out so that it makes a U. So the burner would have a fuel reservoir and a filling tube and then there would be a wick tube coming off at an angle up, perhaps 45deg and then going flat. The flat part would have the top cut off making it a U. Then fit a flat piece of brass with a slide mechanism so that it slides over the top of the U channel. A tight clearance should not be important as the presence of the shield will prevent the flame from burning in that area. I would probably make it so that when the shield was fully extended the flame still burned but just barely, then as the shield was retracted the flame would get bigger.

            I'm not certain that such a device would directly correspond to throttle, but it would seem to allow for easy tuning of the pop pop engine on the fly.

            I'd also hook this up to a small servo and use it with a two channel radio, one channel for adjustable heat and the other for rudder control.

            I'm going to try including a diagram of my idea with this, if that doesn't work so well I can upload it. This design would also work with multiple wicks/wick tubes parallel. I can easily imagine a triple or quad wick setup that would produce a very hot flame.

            (imagine a cute or dirty tagline here)
          • zoomkat
            ... The first thing to do is make a large engine that actually works, and then expand from that. Below is an interesting larger engine that you might consider.
            Message 6 of 6 , Dec 16, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Walter Hansen <gandalf@...> wrote:
              >
              > Anyway I'd like to build a somewhat large ship something 20-30 inches or
              > so.

              The first thing to do is make a large engine that actually works, and then expand from that. Below is an interesting larger engine that you might consider. I made something similar using can lids, but they failed as I now know that I was applying far more heat than actually required. The bottom link has a picture of a large German pop pop boat.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PBgYCkwdV8

              http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/pop-pop/
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.