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Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] WARNING!!!

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  • David Halfpenny (y)
    From: David Rehkopf Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 3:20 AM To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] WARNING!!! ... It s about an
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2011
      From: David Rehkopf
      Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 3:20 AM
      To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] WARNING!!!

      > What does this have to do with this group??

      It's about an engine that works on a related principle to the pop-pop,
      David.

      It uses standing waves in the Working Fluid to replace the complexity of
      mechanical valves.

      Besides, the home page says (in five languages):

      "Description
      This is the any topic, no rules and not much discussion group where the
      development of pop-pop steamboats and engines is occasionally mentioned."

      David 1/2d
    • Frank McNeill
      Hi David and David, This is the any topic, no rules and not much discussion group where the development of pop-pop steamboats and engines is occasionally
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2011
        Hi David and David,

        "This is the any topic, no rules and not much discussion group where the development of pop-pop steamboats and engines is occasionally mentioned."
        Copied from our group's home page.

        Old Frank

        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny \(y\)" <david.halfpenny@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: David Rehkopf
        > Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 3:20 AM
        > To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] WARNING!!!
        >
        > > What does this have to do with this group??
        >
        > It's about an engine that works on a related principle to the pop-pop,
        > David.
        >
        > It uses standing waves in the Working Fluid to replace the complexity of
        > mechanical valves.
        >
        > Besides, the home page says (in five languages):
        >
        > "Description
        > This is the any topic, no rules and not much discussion group where the
        > development of pop-pop steamboats and engines is occasionally mentioned."
        >
        > David 1/2d
        >
      • papypp44
        I worked for 15 years in the design office of one of the biggest engine manufacturers and then I used to work with big engines from this builder and from the
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2011
          I worked for 15 years in the design office of one of the biggest engine manufacturers and then I used to work with big engines from this builder and from the competitors. When I say big engines, I mean between 1000 and 50,000HP. Several times I read papers or I met people who thought they have invented a revolutionary engine. But the laws a physics and thermodynamics cannot be transgressed!!!

          When a customer orders an engine there are generally penalties in case of consumption higher than the contractual one. Penalties could be enormous. Sometimes several millions of Euros or Dollars. Therefore, all the engine designers and manufacturers spend money to try to improve the efficiency. They explored many ways and the fact is that in 30 years the efficiency has been improved by only 2 or 3%, and this is due mainly to a higher pressure in the combustion chamber (175-180 bars in a diesel engine). Higher temperatures (which could also improve the efficiency) are not possible for mechanical reasons and because that would involve more pollution. (NOx).
          I wrote several pages on this matter, but it is in French and I have no time to translate. If somebody reads French I can send a file.

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, David Rehkopf <drehkopf2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > What dose this have to do with this group??
          >
          > --- On Thu, 6/30/11, Donald Qualls <silent1@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Donald Qualls <silent1@...>
          > Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] WARNING!!!
          > To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 6:44 PM
          >
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          >  
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          > Frank McNeill wrote:
          >
          > > Hi All,
          >
          > >
          >
          > > Anybody who has GM or Ford stock should go to the links section for a
          >
          > > link titled "A New Kind of Car Engine."
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Based on what I recall of my thermodynamics courses in college (most of
          >
          > thirty years ago), I have to say someone's screwed up a calculation
          >
          > somewhere (whether by accident or by design). The Carnot efficiency of
          >
          > a gasoline engine (based on the combustion temperature of gasoline in
          >
          > air) cannot possibly reach the 65% figure that article attributes to
          >
          > this new engine -- failing some method to get gasoline to about double
          >
          > its absolute combustion temperature (and keep from melting or blowing up
          >
          > the engine), that engine is as likely to reach the touted efficiency as
          >
          > an 18th century perpetual motion machine is to put the electric
          >
          > companies out of business.
          >
          >
          >
          > This is not to say it won't run -- but I'd be very surprised if it were
          >
          > to beat the modern gasoline automotive engine by more than a few
          >
          > percent, perhaps increasing overall efficiency from 15% to as much as
          >
          > 20% (which would still be a breakthrough of epic proportion). As is,
          >
          > however, the article sounds to me more like a hoax intended to sell a
          >
          > bunch of worthless stock than anything to be taken seriously by the
          >
          > automotive world.
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          > If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you want,
          >
          > it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.
          >
          >
          >
          > Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
          >
          > and don't expect them to be perfect.
          >
        • John Clonts
          What does a 50,000 HP engine look like? What is an example of application? (Steamship?) Thanks! John ... ...
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2011
            What does a 50,000 HP engine look like?  What is an example of application?  (Steamship?)

            Thanks!
            John

            On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:21 PM, papypp44 <papypp44@...> wrote:
            I worked for 15 years in the design office of one of the biggest engine manufacturers and then I used to work with big engines from this builder and from the competitors. When I say big engines, I mean between 1000 and 50,000HP. Several times I read papers or I
            ...
          • Jean-Yves Renaud
            The biggest diesel engine I know (but I ve not seen it) is the Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96. More than 100,000hp in the 14 cylinder version. 2300 tons. Length 27m
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 1, 2011
              The biggest diesel engine I know (but I've not seen it) is the Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96. More than 100,000hp in the 14 cylinder version. 2300 tons. Length 27m (89ft). Height 13.5m (44ft).
              Big engines are used maily for ship propulsion and as prime mover for electrical power plants.
              The efficiency of big diesel engines is around 50%.

              The first engine I saw when I entered in this business (in 1971) was a 12 cylinders in line from Burmeister & Wein (today MAN). Bore: 840mm. Stroke: approx 3m. I was impressed by the size and by some other data such as for instance its idling speed: 17rpm.

              Steamships are very rare today because of the poor efficiency of a steam turbine: approx 30%. However, steam turbines are still used to recover power from the exhaust gas of diesel engines or gas turbines, and thus improving the global efficiency.

              Le 01/07/2011 22:58, John Clonts a écrit :
               

              What does a 50,000 HP engine look like?  What is an example of application?  (Steamship?)

              Thanks!
              John

              On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:21 PM, papypp44 <papypp44@...> wrote:
              I worked for 15 years in the design office of one of the biggest engine manufacturers and then I used to work with big engines from this builder and from the competitors. When I say big engines, I mean between 1000 and 50,000HP. Several times I read papers or I
              ...

            • papypp44
              I ve just seen on internet that there is a strongest engine. It is from MAN-B&W. 115,000hp.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 1, 2011
                I've just seen on internet that there is a strongest engine. It is from MAN-B&W. 115,000hp.

                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Yves Renaud <boite.de.j-y@...> wrote:
                >
                > The biggest diesel engine I know (but I've not seen it) is the
                > Wärtsilä-Sulzer RTA96. More than 100,000hp in the 14 cylinder version.
                > 2300 tons. Length 27m (89ft). Height 13.5m (44ft).
                > Big engines are used maily for ship propulsion and as prime mover for
                > electrical power plants.
                > The efficiency of big diesel engines is around 50%.
                >
                > The first engine I saw when I entered in this business (in 1971) was a
                > 12 cylinders in line from Burmeister & Wein (today MAN). Bore: 840mm.
                > Stroke: approx 3m. I was impressed by the size and by some other data
                > such as for instance its idling speed: 17rpm.
                >
                > Steamships are very rare today because of the poor efficiency of a steam
                > turbine: approx 30%. However, steam turbines are still used to recover
                > power from the exhaust gas of diesel engines or gas turbines, and thus
                > improving the global efficiency.
                >
                > Le 01/07/2011 22:58, John Clonts a écrit :
                > >
                > > What does a 50,000 HP engine look like? What is an example of
                > > application? (Steamship?)
                > >
                > > Thanks!
                > > John
                > >
                > > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 3:21 PM, papypp44 <papypp44@...
                > > <mailto:papypp44@...>> wrote:
                > >
                > > I worked for 15 years in the design office of one of the biggest
                > > engine manufacturers and then I used to work with big engines from
                > > this builder and from the competitors. When I say big engines, I
                > > mean between 1000 and 50,000HP. Several times I read papers or I
                > >
                > > ...
                > >
                >
              • zoomkat
                ... For those that like big/old engines, youtube can totally use up a weekend night! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D24EMlA8Bzc
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 2, 2011
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