Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

First Pop-Pop Engine

Expand Messages
  • charleswclarke@netscape.net
    I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 20, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.

      Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.

      Charles
    • Norman Adrian
      Can you post a picture. From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of charleswclarke@netscape.net Sent:
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 20, 2010
      • 0 Attachment

        Can you post a picture.

         

        From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of charleswclarke@...
        Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:33 PM
        To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] First Pop-Pop Engine

         

         

        I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.

        Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.

        Charles

      • frankmcneilll
        Hi Charles, A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 20, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Charles,

          A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.

          Best wishes, Frank

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:
          >
          > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
          >
          > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
          >
          > Charles
          >
        • charleswclarke@netscape.net
          Hello Frank and Norman, Since I don t have a digital camera, some pictures will have to wait until I can borrow one. The boat is certainly not fancy. It is
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 20, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Frank and Norman,
            Since I don't have a digital camera, some pictures will have to wait until I can borrow one. The boat is certainly not fancy. It is about 7.5 inches long, somewhat oval shaped, and powered by a tea candle. Maybe I am having some beginner's luck, but the 40 minute bathtub voyage was repeated this evening in my friends' swimming pool.

            However, I have had two solder joints fail on subsequent "excursions." The latest failure was between the diaphragm and the boiler. My next engine will have a larger flange area to increase the joint strength. Nevertheless, I fixed the soldered joint, and the boat is merrily chugging around my bathtub as I write this.

            Charles


            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Charles,
            >
            > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
            >
            > Best wishes, Frank
            >
            > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
            > >
            > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
            > >
            > > Charles
            > >
            >
          • charleswclarke@netscape.net
            Hello Frank and Norman, Since I don t have a digital camera, some pictures will have to wait until I can borrow one. The boat is certainly not fancy. It is
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 20, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Frank and Norman,
              Since I don't have a digital camera, some pictures will have to wait until I can borrow one. The boat is certainly not fancy. It is about 7.5 inches long, somewhat oval shaped, and powered by a tea candle. Maybe I am having some beginner's luck, but the 40 minute bathtub voyage was repeated this evening in my friends' swimming pool.

              However, I have had two solder joints fail on subsequent "excursions." The latest failure was between the diaphragm and the boiler. My next engine will have a larger flange area to increase the joint strength. Nevertheless, I fixed the soldered joints, and the boat is merrily chugging around my bathtub as I write this.

              Charles


              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Charles,
              >
              > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
              >
              > Best wishes, Frank
              >
              > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
              > >
              > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
              > >
              > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
              > >
              > > Charles
              > >
              >
            • darylcanada73
              A good engine usually keeps running until the heat is removed, or, a leak develops which is rare when silver brazed, or, it burns out due to applying too much
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 21, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                A good engine usually keeps running until the heat is removed,
                or, a leak develops which is rare when silver brazed, or,
                it burns out due to applying too much heat to make it go faster.

                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Charles,
                >
                > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
                >
                > Best wishes, Frank
                >
                > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
                > >
                > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                > >
                > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                > >
                > > Charles
                > >
                >
              • darylcanada73
                Forgot to say that 40 min for a first try is excellent. Would be good for a tenth try even from my experience.
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 21, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Forgot to say that 40 min for a first try is excellent. Would be good for a tenth try even from my experience.

                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Frank and Norman,
                  > Since I don't have a digital camera, some pictures will have to wait until I can borrow one. The boat is certainly not fancy. It is about 7.5 inches long, somewhat oval shaped, and powered by a tea candle. Maybe I am having some beginner's luck, but the 40 minute bathtub voyage was repeated this evening in my friends' swimming pool.
                  >
                  > However, I have had two solder joints fail on subsequent "excursions." The latest failure was between the diaphragm and the boiler. My next engine will have a larger flange area to increase the joint strength. Nevertheless, I fixed the soldered joint, and the boat is merrily chugging around my bathtub as I write this.
                  >
                  > Charles
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Charles,
                  > >
                  > > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
                  > >
                  > > Best wishes, Frank
                  > >
                  > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                  > > >
                  > > > Charles
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • charleswclarke@netscape.net
                  Daryl, I will try to silver braze the copper and brass in the future. I have attempted to silver braze in the past with only moderate success. Next time I
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 21, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Daryl,
                    I will try to silver braze the copper and brass in the future. I have attempted to silver braze in the past with only moderate success. Next time I will make sure that the parts are especially clean and have that I have plenty of heat.

                    Your You Tube videos are very inspiring. Thank you for posting them. What technique do you use to fasten together your aluminum hulls?
                    Charles

                    --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73" <darylcanada73@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > A good engine usually keeps running until the heat is removed,
                    > or, a leak develops which is rare when silver brazed, or,
                    > it burns out due to applying too much heat to make it go faster.
                    >
                    > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Charles,
                    > >
                    > > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
                    > >
                    > > Best wishes, Frank
                    > >
                    > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                    > > >
                    > > > Charles
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Norman Adrian
                    You also have to use the right kind of flux. I use a white flux made by Handy & Harmon that turns to a clear liquid when it is ready to apply the solder. I
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 21, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment

                      You also have to use the right kind of flux.

                       

                      I use a white flux made by Handy & Harmon that turns to a clear liquid when it is ready to apply the solder.

                       

                      I also use either easy-flo 35 or 45. The easy-flo 35 works well if you have large gaps to fill.

                       

                      You can also use rods with flux on them but I prefer to use the paste and apply it with an acid brush.

                       

                      From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of charleswclarke@...
                      Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:23 PM
                      To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: First Pop-Pop Engine

                       

                       

                      Daryl,
                      I will try to silver braze the copper and brass in the future. I have attempted to silver braze in the past with only moderate success. Next time I will make sure that the parts are especially clean and have that I have plenty of heat.

                      Your You Tube videos are very inspiring. Thank you for posting them. What technique do you use to fasten together your aluminum hulls?
                      Charles

                      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73" <darylcanada73@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > A good engine usually keeps running until the heat is removed,
                      > or, a leak develops which is rare when silver brazed, or,
                      > it burns out due to applying too much heat to make it go faster.
                      >
                      > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com,
                      "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Charles,
                      > >
                      > > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This
                      will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
                      > >
                      > > Best wishes, Frank
                      > >
                      > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com,
                      charleswclarke@ wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a
                      round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                      > > >
                      > > > Charles
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >

                    • frankmcneilll
                      Hi Norman, Charles, Daryl et al, I found an online source for info about brazing and Handy & Harman Brazing Materials. Go to the links section for a link
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 21, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Norman, Charles, Daryl et al,

                        I found an online source for info about brazing and Handy & Harman Brazing Materials.
                        Go to the links section for a link titled "BRAZING BOOK INDEX"

                        Old Frank


                        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Norman Adrian" <njadrian@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > You also have to use the right kind of flux.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I use a white flux made by Handy & Harmon that turns to a clear liquid when
                        > it is ready to apply the solder.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I also use either easy-flo 35 or 45. The easy-flo 35 works well if you have
                        > large gaps to fill.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You can also use rods with flux on them but I prefer to use the paste and
                        > apply it with an acid brush.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                        > [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        > charleswclarke@...
                        > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:23 PM
                        > To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: First Pop-Pop Engine
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Daryl,
                        > I will try to silver braze the copper and brass in the future. I have
                        > attempted to silver braze in the past with only moderate success. Next time
                        > I will make sure that the parts are especially clean and have that I have
                        > plenty of heat.
                        >
                        > Your You Tube videos are very inspiring. Thank you for posting them. What
                        > technique do you use to fasten together your aluminum hulls?
                        > Charles
                        >
                        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com> , "darylcanada73"
                        > <darylcanada73@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > A good engine usually keeps running until the heat is removed,
                        > > or, a leak develops which is rare when silver brazed, or,
                        > > it burns out due to applying too much heat to make it go faster.
                        > >
                        > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com> , "frankmcneilll"
                        > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Charles,
                        > > >
                        > > > A 40-minute running time might be some kind of endurance record. This
                        > will need verification by Daryl, but my recollection of pop-pop boats I
                        > played with as a kid is that 40-seconds was about it. By that time my little
                        > boats were usually stuck in weeds on the opposite side of the creek where
                        > efforts to retrieve them with a throw-line usually sank them instead.
                        > > >
                        > > > Best wishes, Frank
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com> , charleswclarke@ wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round
                        > diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the
                        > diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375
                        > inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered
                        > together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a
                        > boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the
                        > first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed
                        > this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Charles
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • darylcanada73
                        I use very small bolts and nuts. It s overkill on strength but has the advantage of being able to take it apart if necessary for adjustments etc. A little
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 22, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I use very small bolts and nuts. It's overkill on strength but has the advantage of being able to take it apart if necessary for adjustments etc. A little silicone provides the water proofing.

                          Re silver brazing:- The Handy and Harmon book of silver brazing is good as are the other comments. As much as possible keep the open flame away from the join to be brazed untill the surrounding area is bright red. This reduces the chance of oxidizing or burning the critical area. The silver should flow like water when it is applied. If it "chunks" on the material/flame is not hot enough. As the melting point of silver braze is quite high, when brazing thin materials it helps to pound the wire flat and cut it into thin strips so it will melt easier which reduces the risk of burning the material. Soaking in water after will remove much of the left over flux.

                          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:

                          What technique do you use to fasten together your aluminum hulls?
                          > Charles
                        • zoomkat
                          ... You may want to try leaving something like a 1/4 lip on the diaphram edge so it can be used as a heat sink to keep the soldered eadges cooler. Cut slits
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 22, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:
                            > However, I have had two solder joints fail on subsequent "excursions." The latest failure was between the diaphragm and the boiler. My next engine will have a larger flange area to increase the joint strength. Nevertheless, I fixed the soldered joints, and the boat is merrily chugging around my bathtub as I write this.

                            You may want to try leaving something like a 1/4" lip on the diaphram edge so it can be used as a heat sink to keep the soldered eadges cooler. Cut slits in the lip and bend up at 45 deg to act as cooling fins. I've soldered can lids and pie pans together, but the soldered joints almost always get liquid and fail.
                          • charleswclarke@netscape.net
                            Thanks for all the background information on silver brazing. I will have to order some supplies and start practicing. The addition of cooling fins near the
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 23, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks for all the background information on silver brazing. I will have to order some supplies and start practicing.

                              The addition of cooling fins near the edge of the diaphragm is interesting. It sounds like a good idea to reduce the heat near the soldered diaphragm joint while maintaining the heat within the evaporator itself. I will have to think about how best to do that. Once when that joint failed, the boat had hit the side of the swimming pool and remained stationary for quite awhile. I suspect the lack of air movement from forward speed contributed to the heat build up in the soldered joint.

                              Friday, I hope to go to the Wooden Boat show at Mystic Seaport. Hopefully, I will get some ideas regarding a proper boat hull to build.


                              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:
                              >
                              > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                              >
                              > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                              >
                              > Charles
                              >
                            • frankmcneilll
                              Hi All, Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers? They are hard to build and will ultimately fail because of melted joints or metal fatigue.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 24, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi All,

                                Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers?
                                They are hard to build and will ultimately fail because of melted joints or metal fatigue. In his You-Tube part 2 Canadian Putt Putt Boats presentation, Daryl remarked that putting a diaphragm on a boiler is like putting a cushion on a hammer. Richard Jenkins has a photo of a little boat with a boiler made of square tubing which apparently did not need to be coiled. There are also sources for rectangular tubing but nobody seems to have used it so far.
                                I posted a new home page that shows a circle square and rectangle that contain approximately equal areas to show why square or rectangular tubing might outperform round tubing because of their higher ratios of heated surface to volumetric content.

                                Old Frank

                                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Thanks for all the background information on silver brazing. I will have to order some supplies and start practicing.
                                >
                                > The addition of cooling fins near the edge of the diaphragm is interesting. It sounds like a good idea to reduce the heat near the soldered diaphragm joint while maintaining the heat within the evaporator itself. I will have to think about how best to do that. Once when that joint failed, the boat had hit the side of the swimming pool and remained stationary for quite awhile. I suspect the lack of air movement from forward speed contributed to the heat build up in the soldered joint.
                                >
                                > Friday, I hope to go to the Wooden Boat show at Mystic Seaport. Hopefully, I will get some ideas regarding a proper boat hull to build.
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                                > >
                                > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                                > >
                                > > Charles
                                > >
                                >
                              • P M
                                Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers? Because they are more fun as they make nice sounds and performance isn t really an isue. Pathetic
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 24, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers?

                                  Because they are more fun as they make nice sounds and performance isn't really an isue. Pathetic efficiency or a bit less pathetic efficiency doesn't make much difference.

                                  Regards,
                                  Paul

                                  --- On Thu, 6/24/10, frankmcneilll <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:

                                  From: frankmcneilll <frankmcneilll@...>
                                  Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: First Pop-Pop Engine
                                  To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 4:00 PM

                                   

                                  Hi All,

                                  Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers?
                                  They are hard to build and will ultimately fail because of melted joints or metal fatigue. In his You-Tube part 2 Canadian Putt Putt Boats presentation, Daryl remarked that putting a diaphragm on a boiler is like putting a cushion on a hammer. Richard Jenkins has a photo of a little boat with a boiler made of square tubing which apparently did not need to be coiled. There are also sources for rectangular tubing but nobody seems to have used it so far.
                                  I posted a new home page that shows a circle square and rectangle that contain approximately equal areas to show why square or rectangular tubing might outperform round tubing because of their higher ratios of heated surface to volumetric content.

                                  Old Frank

                                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Thanks for all the background information on silver brazing. I will have to order some supplies and start practicing.
                                  >
                                  > The addition of cooling fins near the edge of the diaphragm is interesting. It sounds like a good idea to reduce the heat near the soldered diaphragm joint while maintaining the heat within the evaporator itself. I will have to think about how best to do that. Once when that joint failed, the boat had hit the side of the swimming pool and remained stationary for quite awhile. I suspect the lack of air movement from forward speed contributed to the heat build up in the soldered joint.
                                  >
                                  > Friday, I hope to go to the Wooden Boat show at Mystic Seaport. Hopefully, I will get some ideas regarding a proper boat hull to build.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, charleswclarke@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I made my first pop-pop engine this weekend. The engine has a round diaphragm. I hammer formed sheet copper to form the boiler, and the diaphragm is 0.005 inch thick brass. The engine has two tubes made from .375 inch OD copper-nickel brake line. All components were soft soldered together. To test the engine, I converted a plastic food storage dish into a boat and used two rubber grommets to seal the holes for the tubes. On the first voyage, the boat ran very good for about 40 minutes. I really enjoyed this project, and I look forward to improving my design.
                                  > >
                                  > > Thanks to everyone for the information on this site.
                                  > >
                                  > > Charles
                                  > >
                                  >


                                • zoomkat
                                  ... No rocket science here. The added noise that somewhat simulates the sound of a traditional combustion engine adds authenticity and interest in the toy.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 24, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hi All,
                                    >
                                    > Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers?
                                    > They are hard to build and will ultimately fail because of melted joints or metal fatigue.

                                    No rocket science here. The added noise that somewhat simulates the sound of a traditional combustion engine adds authenticity and interest in the toy.
                                  • darylcanada73
                                    There is an alternative....see my photos..Stereo Putt Putt. Build a conventional strong boiler without a diaphragm. Then add 1, 2 or as many diaphragms as
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 25, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      There is an alternative....see my photos..Stereo Putt Putt.

                                      Build a conventional "strong" boiler without a diaphragm. Then add 1, 2 or as many diaphragms as you want on stalks. This keeps them away from the high heat so the solder does not melt and the diaphragm material lasts a lot longer and is easy to replace if it does fail.

                                      Didn't we have this conversation before?????

                                      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi All,
                                      > >
                                      > > Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers?
                                      > > They are hard to build and will ultimately fail because of melted joints or metal fatigue.
                                      >
                                      > No rocket science here. The added noise that somewhat simulates the sound of a traditional combustion engine adds authenticity and interest in the toy.
                                      >
                                    • frankmcneilll
                                      Thank you Daryl for the photo of the strong boiler with diaphragms on stalks. I could imagine it with a multitude of propulsion robbing stalks resembling
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 26, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thank you Daryl for the photo of the strong boiler with diaphragms on stalks. I could imagine it with a multitude of propulsion robbing stalks resembling mushrooms that emerge overnight- and decided to use it as a home page picture for a while to discourage construction of engines with "propulsion robbing" flexible diaphragms.

                                        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73" <darylcanada73@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > There is an alternative....see my photos..Stereo Putt Putt.
                                        >
                                        > Build a conventional "strong" boiler without a diaphragm. Then add 1, 2 or as many diaphragms as you want on stalks. This keeps them away from the high heat so the solder does not melt and the diaphragm material lasts a lot longer and is easy to replace if it does fail.
                                        >
                                        > Didn't we have this conversation before?????
                                        >
                                        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi All,
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Why would anyone want to construct diaphragm type boilers?
                                        > > > They are hard to build and will ultimately fail because of melted joints or metal fatigue.
                                        > >
                                        > > No rocket science here. The added noise that somewhat simulates the sound of a traditional combustion engine adds authenticity and interest in the toy.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.