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  • maltedfalcon
    Ok, Maybe Im missing something. If I found a paper model I wanted to turn into a metal model, I would go down to my friendly copy shop and have the model blown
    Message 1 of 20 , Oct 27, 2006
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      Ok, Maybe Im missing something. If I found a paper model I wanted to
      turn into a metal model,
      I would go down to my friendly copy shop and have the model blown up
      to whatever size I wanted.
      Then I would go down to my local metal supply shop and get some sheet tin.
      Then I would go down to my local silk screener and have them
      silkscreen the parts onto the tin using and enamel
      (If I was being fancy I would have the color separations of the model
      already done, so they could do a 4 color silk screen.) at the very
      least I would have them silkscreen the part outlines...

      Then I would take the tin sheets down to the local water-jet cutting
      shop and have the parts cut out for me.Just cause Im lazy - you could
      cut them out with a jig saw if you wanted....

      Then I would get a small sheet metal brake - bend up everthing, whip
      out my soldering gun and assemble it.- have to be careul not to cook
      the paint when soldering... (tin solders doesn;t it? otherwise you
      could use brass...

      All and all you could probably do a two or three foot long clermont
      for 100-200 Dollars and most of that is the water cutting...

      Matt-
    • Frank McNeill
      Hi Matt, Thanks for the suggestion for turning a paper model into a metal model. My problem is that I don t have a friendly copy shop, local metal supply shop,
      Message 2 of 20 , Oct 27, 2006
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        Hi Matt,

        Thanks for the suggestion for turning a paper model into a metal model.
        My problem is that I don't have a friendly copy shop, local metal supply shop, local silk screener, local water-jet cutting shop, local sheet metal brake store, or a soldering gun. I don't have a car either, so I would prefer to deal with somebody who has a flatbed UV ink jet printer and a contracts with somebody who designs paper boat and ship models for the production of models made of wood, plastic or metal instead of paper. There are flatbed UV ink jet printers and plotters with cutting devices out there, but I haven't found a shop yet that has these things. If and when I do I will have your ballpark "one to two-hundred dollar" estimate to compare with quotes or estimates I might be able to obtain for printing and cutting services.

        Best wishes, Frank
      • WDSmith
        er............... Shouldn t workable and cost effective be in there somewhere??? I don t think you want to try to solder an already finish painted surface.
        Message 3 of 20 , Oct 27, 2006
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          er...............
          Shouldn't "workable" and "cost effective" be in there somewhere???

          I don't think you want to try to solder an already finish painted surface.  Even low-temp solders will do a number on it. You could use epoxy or Gorilla Glue if mechanical tabs and crimps aren't possible/practical.

          Water jet cutting looks neat on TV but shops that have them didn't buy them to sit and wait for somebody to bring in a small one-of  job. Finding one that would even talk to you about it would be a good trick..... probably involving looking in a severely depressed area. If compelled to use a technological approach, a laser engraver could do it and would be much easier to find.

          Using a jigsaw would require building up a sacrificial sandwich.  Even a jeweler's saw would have trouble with metal thicknesses appropriate to these boats.  You need to keep 3 teeth in contact with the workpiece and that makes a mighty small sawblade tooth.


          Frank McNeill wrote:
          Hi Matt,

          Thanks for the suggestion for turning a paper model into a metal model.
          My problem is that I don't have a friendly copy shop, local metal supply shop, local silk screener, local water-jet cutting shop, local sheet metal brake store, or a soldering gun. I don't have a car either, so I would prefer to deal with somebody who has a flatbed UV ink jet printer and a contracts with somebody who designs paper boat and ship models for the production of models made of wood, plastic or metal instead of paper. There are flatbed UV ink jet printers and plotters with cutting devices out there, but I haven't found a shop yet that has these things. If and when I do I will have your ballpark "one to two-hundred dollar" estimate to compare with quotes or estimates I might be able to obtain for printing and cutting services.

          Best wishes, Frank

        • Matthew Sparks - McClatchy Corporate
          This flatbed uv printer is a great Idea- keep me posted. what materials can it print on? BTW does anybody on this group want a copy of my Clermont paper
          Message 4 of 20 , Oct 27, 2006
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            This flatbed uv printer is a great Idea-  keep me posted. what materials can it print on?
             
            BTW does anybody on this group want a copy of my Clermont paper model? I would be happy to email the pdf to you guys...
            (personal use only!)
             
            I was figuring solder would cook some of the paint, but I figured it could be touched up...
             
            Just curious has anyone figured out what the effective largest size you can go with a pop pop steamboat is?
            I mean isnt there a point where the mass of the boat wouldnt be able to be overcome by the thrust a pop pop - puts out?
             
            I was picturing a jigsaw with a jewlers wire- its kind of a rough piece of wire I think its diamond chips -  that goes through thin sheetmetal like butter.or you could cut it out with a dremel tool and a cutting disc
            My brother is retired Air Force and his hobby is restoring antique motorcycles, he goes to a small machine shop in Dixon, CA and they have a water cutter and they have no problem cutting one off jobs for him. You pay by the number of corners... which is why I figured cutting $$ would take up so much of the Estimate.
             
            I get my paper models printed by a great little shop in Roseville, CA , they can print up to Poster size in full high res color.
            My models are printed on cardstock (8.5X11) its less then 80cents a copy. then I cut them down to 3X5 cards.
             
             
             
            So basically you are looking for a method of mass production...
            My idea would pretty much only work for a one off -though - too labor intensive -  for production...
             
            Just FYI there are people out there who are taking paper model airplanes then printing them large then "laminating" the paper onto sheet foam
            and then using it to make very lightweight flying rc model planes... woudnt work for a boat though ...
             
             
            Matt Sparks
             
             
             
             
          • Frank McNeill
            Hi WD, I haven t found any sign or print shop that has a Mimaki UV cure, flatbed ink jet printer for printing durable images directly on metal so my current
            Message 5 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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              Hi WD,

              I haven't found any sign or print shop that has a Mimaki UV cure, flatbed ink jet printer for printing durable images directly on metal so my current thinking is for using almost any kind of color ink jet printer to print images scanned from paper models on photo grade paper that could be sandwiched between two layers of Plexiglas, as indicated in a sketch in the files section titled: "Clermont cabin.jpg." This method could provide views of the outside of the cabin, and of the inside that could be seen through windows. Nobody knows for sure what the original North River steamboat looked like from the outside, and much less from the inside, but photos of the interior of a display model of a vessel from the same time period might be used for this purpose.

              Best wishes, Frank

              On 10/27/06, WDSmith <dsmith314@...> wrote:

              er...............
              Shouldn't "workable" and "cost effective" be in there somewhere???

              I don't think you want to try to solder an already finish painted surface.  Even low-temp solders will do a number on it. You could use epoxy or Gorilla Glue if mechanical tabs and crimps aren't possible/practical.

              Water jet cutting looks neat on TV but shops that have them didn't buy them to sit and wait for somebody to bring in a small one-of  job. Finding one that would even talk to you about it would be a good trick..... probably involving looking in a severely depressed area. If compelled to use a technological approach, a laser engraver could do it and would be much easier to find.

              Using a jigsaw would require building up a sacrificial sandwich.  Even a jeweler's saw would have trouble with metal thicknesses appropriate to these boats.  You need to keep 3 teeth in contact with the workpiece and that makes a mighty small sawblade tooth.

              SNIP-SNIP

            • Pete B.
              Matt n Frank + all, All good ideas. Our son worked in 3D and wide format printing. He may have some ideas and contacts even though he is no longer in that
              Message 6 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                Matt n Frank + all,

                All good ideas. Our son worked in 3D and wide format printing. He may have some ideas and contacts even though he is no longer in that arena. I also have a friend who does silk-screening and truck graphics. He has done over 3000 Tee Shirts for me over the years. I also have friends in the metal working trades, model makers and sheetmetal shops. I'm not quite ready to put things together yet, but the interest of others is getting me closer.

                I suspect that $200 is low for all the specialties when you combine their services.  The screens for printing will probably run $15-$25 per color. Job Shops generally have a high per/hour rate. I would look at bring the skills in as "volunteers" to the program, at least for making a couple of prototypes. Going commercial I think Frank's idea of contracting is the way to go.

                What has to happen is get paper copies of the CLERMONT and then explore the copyright issues that Frank mentions. I have a copy of a paper CLERMONT from that "other" company in Germany. It's been temporarily misplaced. I may have to purchase a Micromodel copy.

                Let's all stay in touch. This whole idea of a pop-pop CLERMONT is beginning to perculate. They could be marketed as complete, a flat kit or both. Keep the ideas flowing.

                Pete

                P.S. I'm using CLERMONT for identity. Most aren't really aware that the boat was the North River of Clermont, the original name for the HUDSON RIVER. The DELAWARE being the South River.


                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Sparks - McClatchy Corporate" <msparks@...> wrote:
                >
                > This flatbed uv printer is a great Idea- keep me posted. what materials
                > can it print on?
                >
                > BTW does anybody on this group want a copy of my Clermont paper model? I
                > would be happy to email the pdf to you guys...
                > (personal use only!)
                >
                > I was figuring solder would cook some of the paint, but I figured it
                > could be touched up...
                >
                > Just curious has anyone figured out what the effective largest size you
                > can go with a pop pop steamboat is?
                > I mean isnt there a point where the mass of the boat wouldnt be able to
                > be overcome by the thrust a pop pop - puts out?
                >
                > I was picturing a jigsaw with a jewlers wire- its kind of a rough piece
                > of wire I think its diamond chips - that goes through thin sheetmetal
                > like butter.or you could cut it out with a dremel tool and a cutting
                > disc
                > My brother is retired Air Force and his hobby is restoring antique
                > motorcycles, he goes to a small machine shop in Dixon, CA and they have
                > a water cutter and they have no problem cutting one off jobs for him.
                > You pay by the number of corners... which is why I figured cutting $$
                > would take up so much of the Estimate.
                >
                > I get my paper models printed by a great little shop in Roseville, CA ,
                > they can print up to Poster size in full high res color.
                > My models are printed on cardstock (8.5X11) its less then 80cents a
                > copy. then I cut them down to 3X5 cards.
                >
                >
                >
                > So basically you are looking for a method of mass production...
                > My idea would pretty much only work for a one off -though - too labor
                > intensive - for production...
                >
                > Just FYI there are people out there who are taking paper model airplanes
                > then printing them large then "laminating" the paper onto sheet foam
                > and then using it to make very lightweight flying rc model planes...
                > woudnt work for a boat though ...
                >
                >
                > Matt Sparks
                >

              • Pete B.
                Hi Frank, Standard inkjet printer inks are probably not permanent and may bleed even under plexiglas. Some printers have a more permanent ink for photos.
                Message 7 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                  Hi Frank,

                  Standard inkjet printer inks are probably not permanent and may bleed even under plexiglas. Some printers have a more "permanent" ink for photos. There are also color laser printers. I don't know about their permanancy.

                  Ink bleeding aside, flexible, self-adhesive mylar may be a good alternative to plexiglas. It's flexible and more forgiving. You may even be able to cut the mylar oversized so it can be wrapped around seams for a sealing effect.

                  Brainstorming is the way to go on any project. It stimulates the thought process.

                  Pete

                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi WD,
                  >
                  > I haven't found any sign or print shop that has a Mimaki UV cure, flatbed
                  > ink jet printer for printing durable images directly on metal so my current
                  > thinking is for using almost any kind of color ink jet printer to print
                  > images scanned from paper models on photo grade paper that could be
                  > sandwiched between two layers of Plexiglas, as indicated in a sketch in the
                  > files section titled: "Clermont cabin.jpg." This method could provide views
                  > of the outside of the cabin, and of the inside that could be seen through
                  > windows. Nobody knows for sure what the original North River steamboat
                  > looked like from the outside, and much less from the inside, but photos of
                  > the interior of a display model of a vessel from the same time period might
                  > be used for this purpose.
                  >
                  > Best wishes, Frank
                  >
                  > On 10/27/06, WDSmith dsmith314@... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > er...............
                  > > Shouldn't "workable" and "cost effective" be in there somewhere???
                  > >
                  > > I don't think you want to try to solder an already finish painted
                  > > surface. Even low-temp solders will do a number on it. You could use epoxy
                  > > or Gorilla Glue if mechanical tabs and crimps aren't possible/practical.
                  > >
                  > > Water jet cutting looks neat on TV but shops that have them didn't buy
                  > > them to sit and wait for somebody to bring in a small one-of job. Finding
                  > > one that would even talk to you about it would be a good trick..... probably
                  > > involving looking in a severely depressed area. If compelled to use a
                  > > technological approach, a laser engraver could do it and would be much
                  > > easier to find.
                  > >
                  > > Using a jigsaw would require building up a sacrificial sandwich. Even a
                  > > jeweler's saw would have trouble with metal thicknesses appropriate to these
                  > > boats. You need to keep 3 teeth in contact with the workpiece and that
                  > > makes a mighty small sawblade tooth.
                  > > SNIP-SNIP
                  > >
                  >

                • Pete B.
                  ... wrote: Nobody knows for sure what the original North River steamboat looked like from the outside, and much less from the inside, but
                  Message 8 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                    --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:

                    Nobody knows for sure what the original North River steamboat
                    looked like from the outside, and much less from the inside, but photos of
                    the interior of a display model of a vessel from the same time period might
                    be used for this purpose.

                    To all,

                    Frank is absolutely right about all details of the CLERMONT. There is not much documented.

                    I have attached links that show possible details that may have been used on the CLERMONT. This may be going beyond the scope of the pop-pops but is of interest to the boat's background.

                    The first is the Lake Champlain Maritime Museum. I had the pleasure of being on board the Lois McClure when she was in Kingston, NY.

                    http://www.lcmm.org/

                    http://www.lcmm.org/mcclurevr/index.html

                    The second is for the Hudson River Sloop the CLEARWATER. I have also been on board the Clearwater.

                    http://www.clearwater.org/

                    The third is for the ELIZABETH II. Although from a considerably earlier period I visted her this past summer to get a feel for construction details.

                    http://www.roanokeisland.com/index.php?name=eii

                    If you know of other sites, i'd be interested. THX.

                    Pete


                     

                  • Frank McNeill
                    Hi Matt, Pete, WD and all, The panoramic view of the Lois McClure s cabin might be useful for printing the interior walls of the Clermont s passenger
                    Message 9 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                      Hi Matt, Pete, WD and all,

                      The panoramic view of the Lois McClure's cabin might be useful for printing the interior walls of the Clermont's passenger compartment  which probably had "Pullman car" sleeping compartments below the deck around the raised part of the passenger compartment.

                      Now for replies to a few questions—
                      Re: quality of ink jet inks:

                      From David Hathaway's Paper Shipwright site:
                      "The print quality of Ink-jet printers is now very high, particularly those rated as "photo quality" - but these printers do not generally use water-fast inks and have a big drawback in not using lightfast inks. This can lead to models printed this way fading dramatically over time and the inks running if water-based glues (eg PVA adhesive) are used during assembly.Epson (www.epson.com) introduced a range of pigment-based inks called Dura-Brite for their photo-quality domestic and professional ink-jet printers in 2001. They rated the inks as both waterproof (in normal situations), smudgeproof and lightfast for up to 70 years - and backed these claims with independent tests. The pigment inks used are conceptually similar to those used by offset printing presses and the very high printing resolution ensures near-offset print-quality.
                      The first few Paper Shipwright models were printed using a commercial digital offset press. All other models (and any new ones for the forseeable future) are printed in small batches on an Epson photo- quality inkjet printer that utilises Dura-Brite pigment inks. If a future model is likely to sell over 1000 copies then traditional offset printing will probably be used."

                      Re: BTW does anybody on this group want a copy of my Clermont paper model? I would be happy to email the pdf to you guys... (personal use only!)

                      I would like to have a copy. I have joined three groups for people who use wide format ink jet printers as a lurker and might be able to use the pdf for a test similar to one done with a free model of "Thomas the Tank" that didn't work out on a wide format printer with a maximum 600 x 600 dpi resolution because it prints signs that are intended for viewing from a minimum distance of five feet. old Frank

                      Re: What materials can UV flatbed printers print on?

                      Apparently just about anything with the possible exceptions of Teflon and water. Materials that have been mentioned included uncoated glass, wood, metals including lead, brass and copper, and corrugated plastic board stock for indoor and outdoor signs.

                      Re: size limit for pop-pop boats.

                      According to info on the Pop-pop Pages, Peter Payne experimented with a passenger carrying pop-pop boat. His engine was more elaborate than the kind in little tin boats from India, and used check valves to generate unidirectional flow that would increase thrust by using different tubes for intake and propulsion.
                      There isn't any real limit to the size of simple boats because engines can be as simple as coils of brass or copper tubing with two ends sticking out under the waterline for propulsion. Go to the photos section for a picture of Richard Jenkins' "Popflea" and consider the possibility for using stacks of square brass tube engines in models two or three feet long.

                      Best wishes, Frank

                      On 10/28/06, Pete B. <georgeyyy@...> wrote:

                      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:

                      Nobody knows for sure what the original North River steamboat
                      looked like from the outside, and much less from the inside, but photos of
                      the interior of a display model of a vessel from the same time period might
                      be used for this purpose.

                      To all,

                      Frank is absolutely right about all details of the CLERMONT. There is not much documented.

                      I have attached links that show possible details that may have been used on the CLERMONT. This may be going beyond the scope of the pop-pops but is of interest to the boat's background.

                      The first is the Lake Champlain Maritime Museum. I had the pleasure of being on board the Lois McClure when she was in Kingston, NY.

                      http://www.lcmm.org/

                      http://www.lcmm.org/mcclurevr/index.html

                      The second is for the Hudson River Sloop the CLEARWATER. I have also been on board the Clearwater.

                      http://www.clearwater.org/

                      The third is for the ELIZABETH II. Although from a considerably earlier period I visted her this past summer to get a feel for construction details.

                      http://www.roanokeisland.com/index.php?name=eii

                      If you know of other sites, i'd be interested. THX.

                      Pete


                       


                    • WDSmith
                      Well, got to be some way that works for you since there is at least 3 gazillion inkjet products out there.... all the way from opaque stickyback paper to decal
                      Message 10 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                        Well, got to be some way that works for you since there is at least 3
                        gazillion inkjet products out there.... all the way from opaque
                        stickyback paper to decal film and heat transfer stuff. Most of it works
                        fairly well. The sticky wicket is UV resistance and all-around
                        permanence but some are aimed directly at those problems.

                        Where are you, Frank?




                        Frank McNeill wrote:
                        > Hi WD,
                        >
                        > I haven't found any sign or print shop that has a Mimaki UV cure,
                        > flatbed ink jet printer for printing durable images directly on metal
                        > so my current thinking is for using almost any kind of color ink jet
                        > printer to print images scanned from paper models on photo grade paper
                        > that could be sandwiched between two layers of Plexiglas, a
                      • Frank McNeill
                        Hi WD, Right now I m located at 15250 Gray Ridge Drive in Houston, Texas. Wait a sec and I will use Google Maps to show you— JEEZ! What was that noise?
                        Message 11 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                          Hi WD,

                          Right now I'm located at 15250 Gray Ridge Drive in Houston, Texas.
                          Wait a sec and I will use Google Maps to show you— JEEZ! What was
                          that noise? Sounds like something really big hit the ground out front!

                          old Frank :-)

                          On 10/28/06, WDSmith <dsmith314@...> wrote:

                          Well, got to be some way that works for you since there is at least 3
                          gazillion inkjet products out there.... all the way from opaque
                          stickyback paper to decal film and heat transfer stuff. Most of it works
                          fairly well. The sticky wicket is UV resistance and all-around
                          permanence but some are aimed directly at those problems.

                          Where are you, Frank?

                          Frank McNeill wrote:
                          > Hi WD,
                          >
                          > I haven't found any sign or print shop that has a Mimaki UV cure,
                          > flatbed ink jet printer for printing durable images directly on metal
                          > so my current thinking is for using almost any kind of color ink jet
                          > printer to print images scanned from paper models on photo grade paper
                          > that could be sandwiched between two layers of Plexiglas, a


                        • WDSmith
                          OK, didn t recall if you were in the middle of nowhere or what. I have a number of friends and associates around there so maybe somebody knows something.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Oct 28, 2006
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                            OK, didn't recall if you were in the middle of nowhere or what.
                            I have a number of friends and associates around there so maybe somebody
                            knows something.


                            Frank McNeill wrote:
                            > Hi WD,
                            >
                            > Right now I'm located at 15250 Gray Ridge Drive in Houston, Texas.
                            > Wait a sec and I will use Google Maps to show you— JEEZ! What was
                            > that noise? Sounds like something really big hit the ground out front!
                          • Pete B.
                            Good Morning Matt, This may be a duplicate request. I tried send you a personal E-mail thru Yahoo. I d appreciate get a PDF copy of your paper Clermont. I have
                            Message 13 of 20 , Oct 29, 2006
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                              Good Morning Matt,

                              This may be a duplicate request. I tried send you a personal E-mail
                              thru Yahoo.

                              I'd appreciate get a PDF copy of your paper Clermont. I have a couple
                              of avenues to research for creating a metal version. I have several
                              irons in the fire at present so it may take a little bit of time time
                              to coordinate.

                              My main focus for the next few weeks is in organizing a 50th Reunion
                              for my elementary school class in Manchester, NH. The facility has to
                              be reserved 9-12 months in advance. It's a challenge when you don't
                              know the head count. Last year we had a 45% turnout, including our 8th
                              grade teacher. I have been in touch with approx 63 member who are
                              spread out all over the country. I started this program 2 years ago.
                              Since then several of us get together for dinner etc. a couple of
                              times a year. It's a lot of fun reminiscing. It's because of this
                              reminiscing that I got involved with this GROUP.

                              Enjoy,

                              Pete


                              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew Sparks - McClatchy
                              Corporate" <msparks@...> wrote:


                              > BTW does anybody on this group want a copy of my Clermont paper
                              model? I
                              > would be happy to email the pdf to you guys...
                              > (personal use only!)
                            • Steve
                              ... With dye inks, the issue of bleeding would only happen if it got wet, or perhaps it might fog the plexi if the print were not let to dry for a day or two.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Oct 30, 2006
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                                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Frank,
                                >
                                > Standard inkjet printer inks are probably not permanent and may bleed
                                > even under plexiglas. Some printers have a more "permanent" ink for
                                > photos. There are also color laser printers. I don't know about their
                                > permanancy.

                                With dye inks, the issue of bleeding would only happen if it got wet,
                                or perhaps it might fog the plexi if the print were not let to dry for
                                a day or two. Dye inks can fade if left in sunlight. Many new Epsons
                                use waterproof or water resistant pigmented inks, and 3rd party
                                pigmented inks are available for most Epsons.

                                Right now I can print 17 inch wide, very long in pigmented ink. They
                                are about as permanent as you can get. I put a print under the faucet
                                and the ink did not run.

                                > Ink bleeding aside, flexible, self-adhesive mylar may be a good
                                > alternative to plexiglas. It's flexible and more forgiving. You may even
                                > be able to cut the mylar oversized so it can be wrapped around seams for
                                > a sealing effect.

                                Are you thinking of inkjet receptive vinyl? I have a roll.

                                > Brainstorming is the way to go on any project. It stimulates the thought
                                > process.

                                Absolutely!

                                I have a vinyl cutter, it can be used to score thin plastic, then a
                                bit of bending should snap it along the scoring. I can print patterns
                                on paper or sticky-back vinyl. This is with pigmented ink so it's
                                waterproof/resistant and sun resistant.

                                Steve Greenfield
                              • Steve
                                Perhaps styrene sheets like this scored on the vinyl cutter: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/pls/pls91101.htm With inkjet printed sticky-back vinyl stuck on it?
                                Message 15 of 20 , Oct 30, 2006
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                                  Perhaps styrene sheets like this scored on the vinyl cutter:
                                  http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/pls/pls91101.htm

                                  With inkjet printed sticky-back vinyl stuck on it?

                                  Steve Greenfield

                                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  ...
                                  > I have a vinyl cutter, it can be used to score thin plastic, then a
                                  > bit of bending should snap it along the scoring. I can print patterns
                                  > on paper or sticky-back vinyl. This is with pigmented ink so it's
                                  > waterproof/resistant and sun resistant.
                                  >
                                  > Steve Greenfield
                                  >
                                • Frank McNeill
                                  Hi All, Perhaps I should have mentioned in my introduction of Two New Members that Steve is the list owner, co-moderator, chief cook and bottle
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                    Hi All,

                                    Perhaps I should have mentioned in my introduction of "Two New Members" that Steve <alienrelics> is the list owner, co-moderator, chief cook and bottle washer of the Yahoo discussion group "signmaker."
                                    I joined the signmaker group to pitch the notion for using commercial printing equipment to "convert" display models made of paper into working models made of wood, plastic, metal and anything else that floats your boat. We needed a printer or two on the group, so I did what I have done on a lot of groups by inviting the signmaker members to join us here on the good ship lolly pop-pop-steamboats.
                                    I "borrowed" this description of the signmakers group to let you know where Steve is coming from, or has come from: "Discussion, brainstorming, hints, tips, sharing of suppliers and information on using signmaking equipment to make just about anything and using just about anything to make signs.
                                    Signs for windows, autos, signboards (of course), bumper stickers, window stickers, bottle labels and packaging, T-shirt transfers that look like screenprint."
                                    (AND POP-POP BOATS of course!)
                                    We have a lot of different talents on board, Matthew Sparks, designer of the paper models shown on the home page today, metal shapers, wood workers, model builders and designers of everything from ACW ironclads to Footy class RC sailboats, so let's get together on a project. Suggestions Anybody?

                                    Best wishes, old Frank
                                  • Pete B.
                                    Hi Steve, Thanks for your input. I think that we have something going. Frank has been the catalyst to the whole brainstorming session that is taking place.
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                      Hi Steve,


                                      Thanks for your input. I think that we have something going. Frank has been the catalyst to the whole brainstorming session that is taking place. Your comments in orange followed by my reply.
                                       
                                      With dye inks, the issue of bleeding would only happen if it got wet,
                                      or perhaps it might fog the plexi if the print were not let to dry for
                                      a day or two. Dye inks can fade if left in sunlight. Many new Epsons
                                      use waterproof or water resistant pigmented inks, and 3rd party
                                      pigmented inks are available for most Epsons
                                      .

                                      Not to be funny, but the little pop-pop CLERMONT is a boat so I suspect it might get wet. What Frank has initiated is a plan to develop a working pop-pop model of the CLERMONT. Size has yet to be determined but it will probably be in the 15”-18” range. It would be driven by the conventional pop-pop engine possibly updated to one of the designs developed by one of the group members. The paddle wheels would be free-wheeling.


                                      Right now I can print 17 inch wide, very long in pigmented ink. They
                                      are about as permanent as you can get. I put a print under the faucet
                                      and the ink did not run.

                                      Your pigmented inks are exactly what we are looking for. The printing would be less costly than screening, both material and labor wise.

                                      Are you thinking of inkjet receptive vinyl? I have a roll.

                                      I was thinking of a durable material that would be relatively easy to work with. The vinyl fits that bill. When we get the PDF file from Matt Sparks we can print a template on paper to a desired scale. The template can be transferred to a metal sheet. The boat can then be cut out formed and partially assembled. We could then take you printed vinyl sheet, cut it out and laminate to the formed pieces of the boat. This sequence allows for soldering of the metal without burning the ink image. The vinyl could still be wrapped around the seems as I suggested earlier. Frank gave you credit but I don't mind. In brainstorming everyone gets the credit.



                                      I have a vinyl cutter, it can be used to score thin plastic, then a
                                      bit of bending should snap it along the scoring. I can print patterns
                                      on paper or sticky-back vinyl. This is with pigmented ink so it's
                                      waterproof/resistant and sun resistant.

                                      When do we start? If we get a team together it may be easier to communicate directly through regular e-mail or phone. Something to think about. We could post progress updates at Yahoo Groups..

                                      Pete

                                       

                                    • Frank McNeill
                                      Hi. Pete, Steve, et al. (sorry I ve used that line before) We have a member named Graham McAllister who designs original types of R/C model airplanes, builds
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                        Hi. Pete, Steve, et al. (sorry I've used that line before)

                                        We have a member named Graham McAllister who designs original types of R/C model airplanes, builds R/C scale models of sailboats, owns a discussion group about R/C sailboats and produces kits for constructing R/C "Foot" class boats. Go to: ht.://www.scalesailing.com/ for info about a relatively easy way for making pop-pop Claremont hulls. Instead of one opening for a Footers R/C stuff, a Claremont hull might have three—two for the forward and aft walk down cabins and one for the boiler and engine, boiler and firebox pit. The pit would probably be a box made of brass shim stock. The engine could be a gurgle type similar to the square brass tube engine in Richard Jerkins' "Popflea with propulsion tubes passing down through the bottom of the box, rather than back through the stern. A removable cover for the engine might be designed to look like the Clermont's firebox, boiler and smokestack.

                                        Just thinking out loud, assuming that it is allowed, old Frank

                                        On 10/31/06, Pete B. <georgeyyy@... > wrote:

                                        Hi Steve,


                                        Thanks for your input. I think that we have something going. Frank has been the catalyst to the whole brainstorming session that is taking place. Your comments in orange followed by my reply.
                                         
                                        With dye inks, the issue of bleeding would only happen if it got wet,
                                        or perhaps it might fog the plexi if the print were not let to dry for
                                        a day or two. Dye inks can fade if left in sunlight. Many new Epsons
                                        use waterproof or water resistant pigmented inks, and 3rd party
                                        pigmented inks are available for most Epsons
                                        .

                                        Not to be funny, but the little pop-pop CLERMONT is a boat so I suspect it might get wet. What Frank has initiated is a plan to develop a working pop-pop model of the CLERMONT. Size has yet to be determined but it will probably be in the 15"-18" range. It would be driven by the conventional pop-pop engine possibly updated to one of the designs developed by one of the group members. The paddle wheels would be free-wheeling.


                                        Right now I can print 17 inch wide, very long in pigmented ink. They
                                        are about as permanent as you can get. I put a print under the faucet
                                        and the ink did not run.

                                        Your pigmented inks are exactly what we are looking for. The printing would be less costly than screening, both material and labor wise.

                                        Are you thinking of inkjet receptive vinyl? I have a roll.

                                        I was thinking of a durable material that would be relatively easy to work with. The vinyl fits that bill. When we get the PDF file from Matt Sparks we can print a template on paper to a desired scale. The template can be transferred to a metal sheet. The boat can then be cut out formed and partially assembled. We could then take you printed vinyl sheet, cut it out and laminate to the formed pieces of the boat. This sequence allows for soldering of the metal without burning the ink image. The vinyl could still be wrapped around the seems as I suggested earlier. Frank gave you credit but I don't mind. In brainstorming everyone gets the credit.



                                        I have a vinyl cutter, it can be used to score thin plastic, then a
                                        bit of bending should snap it along the scoring. I can print patterns
                                        on paper or sticky-back vinyl. This is with pigmented ink so it's
                                        waterproof/resistant and sun resistant.

                                        When do we start? If we get a team together it may be easier to communicate directly through regular e-mail or phone. Something to think about. We could post progress updates at Yahoo Groups..

                                        Pete

                                         


                                      • Pete B.
                                        Frank, Thinking out load is a sign of a fertile mind! It also stimulates the thought process in others. Pete ... R/C ... discussion ... Foot ... relatively
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Oct 31, 2006
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                                          Frank,

                                          Thinking out load is a sign of a fertile mind! It also stimulates the thought process in others.

                                          Pete


                                          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi. Pete, Steve, et al. (sorry I've used that line before)
                                          >
                                          > We have a member named Graham McAllister who designs original types of R/C
                                          > model airplanes, builds R/C scale models of sailboats, owns a discussion
                                          > group about R/C sailboats and produces kits for constructing R/C "Foot"
                                          > class boats. Go to: ht.://www.scalesailing.com/ for info about a relatively
                                          > easy way for making pop-pop Claremont hulls. Instead of one opening for a
                                          > Footers R/C stuff, a Claremont hull might have three—two for the forward and
                                          > aft walk down cabins and one for the boiler and engine, boiler and firebox
                                          > pit. The pit would probably be a box made of brass shim stock. The engine
                                          > could be a gurgle type similar to the square brass tube engine in Richard
                                          > Jerkins' "Popflea with propulsion tubes passing down through the bottom of
                                          > the box, rather than back through the stern. A removable cover for the
                                          > engine might be designed to look like the Clermont's firebox, boiler and
                                          > smokestack.
                                          >
                                          > Just thinking out loud, assuming that it is allowed, old Frank
                                          >
                                          > On 10/31/06, Pete B. georgeyyy@... wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Hi Steve,
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Thanks for your input. I think that we have something going. Frank has
                                          > > been the catalyst to the whole brainstorming session that is taking place.
                                          > > Your comments in orange followed by my reply.
                                          > >
                                          > > *With dye inks, the issue of bleeding would only happen if it got wet,
                                          > > or perhaps it might fog the plexi if the print were not let to dry for
                                          > > a day or two. Dye inks can fade if left in sunlight. Many new Epsons
                                          > > use waterproof or water resistant pigmented inks, and 3rd party
                                          > > pigmented inks are available for most Epsons*.
                                          > >
                                          > > Not to be funny, but the little pop-pop CLERMONT is a boat so I suspect it
                                          > > might get wet. What Frank has initiated is a plan to develop a working
                                          > > pop-pop model of the CLERMONT. Size has yet to be determined but it will
                                          > > probably be in the 15"-18" range. It would be driven by the conventional
                                          > > pop-pop engine possibly updated to one of the designs developed by one of
                                          > > the group members. The paddle wheels would be free-wheeling.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > *Right now I can print 17 inch wide, very long in pigmented ink. They
                                          > > are about as permanent as you can get. I put a print under the faucet
                                          > > and the ink did not run.
                                          > >
                                          > > *
                                          > >
                                          > > Your pigmented inks are exactly what we are looking for. The printing
                                          > > would be less costly than screening, both material and labor wise.
                                          > >
                                          > > *Are you thinking of inkjet receptive vinyl? I have a roll.*
                                          > >
                                          > > I was thinking of a durable material that would be relatively easy to work
                                          > > with. The vinyl fits that bill. When we get the PDF file from Matt Sparks we
                                          > > can print a template on paper to a desired scale. The template can be
                                          > > transferred to a metal sheet. The boat can then be cut out formed and
                                          > > partially assembled. We could then take you printed vinyl sheet, cut it out
                                          > > and laminate to the formed pieces of the boat. This sequence allows for
                                          > > soldering of the metal without burning the ink image. The vinyl could still
                                          > > be wrapped around the seems as I suggested earlier. Frank gave you credit
                                          > > but I don't mind. In brainstorming everyone gets the credit.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > *I have a vinyl cutter, it can be used to score thin plastic, then a
                                          > > bit of bending should snap it along the scoring. I can print patterns
                                          > > on paper or sticky-back vinyl. This is with pigmented ink so it's
                                          > > waterproof/resistant and sun resistant.
                                          > > *
                                          > > When do we start? If we get a team together it may be easier to
                                          > > communicate directly through regular e-mail or phone. Something to think
                                          > > about. We could post progress updates at Yahoo Groups..
                                          > >
                                          > > Pete
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >

                                        • Steve
                                          The problem with HTML to a list like this is it gets lost in a Digest (which I m on) and is lost when I reply. ... Doh! I am very much into flying airplane
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Nov 1, 2006
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                                            The problem with HTML to a list like this is it gets lost in a Digest
                                            (which I'm on) and is lost when I reply.

                                            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hi Steve,
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Thanks for your input. I think that we have something going. Frank has
                                            > been the catalyst to the whole brainstorming session that is taking
                                            > place. Your comments in orange followed by my reply.

                                            Steve said:
                                            > With dye inks, the issue of bleeding would only happen if it got wet,
                                            > or perhaps it might fog the plexi if the print were not let to dry for
                                            > a day or two. Dye inks can fade if left in sunlight. Many new Epsons
                                            > use waterproof or water resistant pigmented inks, and 3rd party
                                            > pigmented inks are available for most Epsons.

                                            Pete B. said:
                                            > Not to be funny, but the little pop-pop CLERMONT is a boat so I suspect
                                            > it might get wet. What Frank has initiated is a plan to develop a
                                            > working pop-pop model of the CLERMONT. Size has yet to be determined but
                                            > it will probably be in the 15”-18” range. It would be
                                            > driven by the conventional pop-pop engine possibly updated to one of the
                                            > designs developed by one of the group members. The paddle wheels would
                                            > be free-wheeling.

                                            Doh! I am very much into flying airplane models, I wasn't thinking
                                            that through all the way...

                                            Steve said:
                                            > Right now I can print 17 inch wide, very long in pigmented ink. They
                                            > are about as permanent as you can get. I put a print under the faucet
                                            > and the ink did not run.

                                            Pete B. said:
                                            > Your pigmented inks are exactly what we are looking for. The printing
                                            > would be less costly than screening, both material and labor wise.

                                            Screen printing can be very cheap, but you have to do a lot of exactly
                                            the same thing.

                                            Steve said:
                                            > Are you thinking of inkjet receptive vinyl? I have a roll.

                                            Pete B. said:
                                            > I was thinking of a durable material that would be relatively easy to
                                            > work with. The vinyl fits that bill. When we get the PDF file from Matt
                                            > Sparks we can print a template on paper to a desired scale. The template
                                            > can be transferred to a metal sheet. The boat can then be cut out formed
                                            > and partially assembled. We could then take you printed vinyl sheet, cut
                                            > it out and laminate to the formed pieces of the boat. This sequence
                                            > allows for soldering of the metal without burning the ink image. The
                                            > vinyl could still be wrapped around the seems as I suggested earlier.
                                            > Frank gave you credit but I don't mind. In brainstorming everyone gets
                                            > the credit.

                                            That's what I was thinking.

                                            Steve said:
                                            > I have a vinyl cutter, it can be used to score thin plastic, then a
                                            > bit of bending should snap it along the scoring. I can print patterns
                                            > on paper or sticky-back vinyl. This is with pigmented ink so it's
                                            > waterproof/resistant and sun resistant.

                                            Pete B. said:
                                            > When do we start? If we get a team together it may be easier to
                                            > communicate directly through regular e-mail or phone. Something to think
                                            > about. We could post progress updates at Yahoo Groups..

                                            Hm. My personal bias is to continue to talk through the list, for a
                                            variety of reasons. As for phone calls, I doubt we're in the same time
                                            zone, and likely not all on the same continent. I'm PST, Tacoma, WA,
                                            USA. It's also nice to be able to refer back to ideas and such in
                                            writing. I have a -lot- of things going on, it makes it easier to keep
                                            track. I make: Tshirts, signs, sandblasting, refurbish printers,
                                            repair electronics, make amateur videos, run a very active sci fi fan
                                            club, build props, repair electronics, eBay, etc. 20 Yahoogroups, and
                                            not in the best health.

                                            So if you don't hear from me for a few days or even a few weeks, it
                                            isn't that I'm ignoring you.

                                            Steve Greenfield
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