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Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?

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  • David Halfpenny
    ... From: Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:22 AM To: Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 28, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      --------------------------------------------------
      From: <kenneth@...>
      Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:22 AM
      To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?

      > The $1500 or less CNC machine would need to be able to cut something.

      Ah, you didn't mention that before Kenneth ;-) More specifically, you
      didn't mention what kind of workpiece you have in mind.

      = Check out the Proxxon MF70 conversions.

      = You might also like to check out the CraftRobo type CNC swivel-knife
      plotters. These are mostly sold to Momsy women for 'scrapbooking', and can
      cut worthwhile sheet materials. They are just printer-sized miniatures of
      industrial sign-writer's cutters.


      Which brings us back to printers, which are genuine CNC machines in their
      own right, and even if they can't cut directly can prepare sophisticated
      masters for cutting sheet materials.

      I'd go for a laser printer, which can prepare toner-transfer masters for
      chemical machining (also known as etching) and electrochemical machining
      (similar but with cheaper less poisonous chemicals, and also known as
      electro-etching). Special consumables are available for transferring the
      printed image to sheet metal etc, but one can improvise with acetate or
      even smooth paper.

      When working with sheet materials, there's a lot to be said for merely
      printing an accurate line and cutting to it with a knife, linisher,
      die-grinder, guillotine etc.

      I have a story from 30 years ago when I ran a CAD system for British
      Railways. We had undertaken to extend the capacity of some privately-owned
      cement wagons by adding cones to the ends of the existing barrels. The tops
      of the cones had to be level with the top of the train (well, the bottoms
      of the bridges really), and the bottoms had to be at the right angle for
      dry cement to flow under gravity. The resulting 'oblique frustrum' was easy
      to sketch but a pig to make. What was worse, our Contract had only days to
      run and the financial penalties for later delivery were both substantial
      and potentially humiliating.
      The traditional method is to 'Develop' the flat sheet using
      traditional drawing office methods on the biggest sheet of paper a guy
      could reach across. Then enlarge it up to full size using careful marking
      out on a sheet of thin steel. This would be oxy cut by eye, rolled up and
      welded. craftsmen would then cut bits off and weld bits on until it fitted
      the job, cut it open and use it as a template to mark out the pile of thick
      steel plates.
      We didn't have time for all that, so I got a guy to draw it very
      accurately 'full-size' on the CAD computer and printed the huge curved
      shape - as big as a bus - out on rolls of yard-wide 'wallpaper'. A lad
      carried these up to Shildon Works by train, where they were taped down
      direct to a thick sheet of steel. An optical flame-cutter - one with an oxy
      torch head and photocells that automatically follows a black line - zipped
      around the outline in no time. Now came the real test of traditional manual
      skill. The steel was rolled to shape using the massive rollers once used
      for locomotive boilers. Every 'pinch' had to be at a slightly different
      pressure and a different angle, and remember this sheet is as big as a bus
      and flopping around the roof as it bends.
      When the Gaffer turned up on the train next day, there sitting on a
      giant surface plate was a perfect oblique cone, edges prepped ready to
      weld. He said there wasn't anywhere he could push a coin through the seam.
      Contract saved. Sheet metalwork is more sophisticated these days, but I
      doubt it's cheaper.

      David 1/2d
    • Pete
      Frank, We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school? prb
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 28, 2010
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        Frank,

        We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school?

        prb

        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Kenneth,
        >
        > That question is easy to answer. For $1500 or less you could buy a bunch of inkjet printers that are sold for less than it costs to manufacture them. What the manufacturers lose on printers, they get payed back several times over for ink cartridges that are getting more expensive because of all the stuff that's required to make them seem empty before they are not and prevent them from being refilled with fountain pen ink. That answer will probably generate a lot of questions from members too young to know anything about fountain pens.
        >
        > Best wishes, Frank
        >
        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, <kenneth@> wrote:
        > >
        > > If one may ask, what are some of the better cnc machines, known to this
        > > membership, that an individual may purchase for $1500 or less?
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@>
        > > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 PM
        > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Flash,
        > >
        > > Apparently some of the other members with similar problems got there first
        > > because the search function was back to normal a few minutes ago.
        > >
        > > Thanks, and best wishes,
        > > Frank
        > >
        > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "flashsolutions"
        > > <flashsolutions@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Sounds like there is a technical problem with the forum. You need to PM
        > > > Mark (kram242) and let him know you are unable to search your posts.
        > > >
        > > > There have been a few others reporting similar problems. As Mark makes
        > > > changes to the forum he sometimes breaks things.
        > > >
        > > > Unless you tell him about it, he would not know.
        > > >
        > > > As moderator, I can relay that to him if you are unable to contact him
        > > > thru your login.
        > > >
        > > > Just let me know and we will get it sorted out.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@>
        > > > wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Hi Flash,
        > > > >
        > > > > I can still sign on to the phlatforum but am not allowed to search for
        > > > > my
        > > > > posts, unanswered posts and the like.
        > > > > Without intending to do so, I replied to a new member who wrote that he
        > > > > had
        > > > > a physical handicap of some kind and wanted to do some kind of cnc
        > > > > related
        > > > > work to obtain more income. I suggested that he might produce wooden
        > > > > pop-pop
        > > > > boats and that lead to a mention of cnc wood carving machines. There
        > > > > wasn't
        > > > > any immediate response, but the next time I signed on I discovered that
        > > > > I
        > > > > was not allowed to use the search feature. I am not mad at anyone, it
        > > > > was my
        > > > > fault because I forgot that discussion of other kinds of cnc machines
        > > > > was
        > > > > not allowed.
        > > > >
        > > > > Best wishes, Frank
        > > > >
        > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, flashsolutions
        > > > > <flashsolutions@>wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Frank,
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I cannot understand your animosity to the phlatforum. You get treated
        > > > > > well there and Mark and Trish have thanked you numerous times for your
        > > > > > posts.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Not everyone is into pop pop boats.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Most everyone that owns a phlatprinter are into radio controlled
        > > > > > aircraft.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I read your posts too, and hope one day I will give them a try, but am
        > > > > > just too busy right now.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In
        > > > > > pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com<pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > > > > "frankmcneilll"
        > > > > >
        > > > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Hi All,
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I stumbled onto an organization at http://www.100kgarages.com/ that
        > > > > > might have a few members with answers to this question. I seem to have
        > > > > > become persona non grata on the phlatforum, possibly because I replied
        > > > > > to a disabled new member who wanted to learn more about cnc cutting
        > > > > > machines that could provide him with additional income. I suggested
        > > > > > the
        > > > > > production of wooden pop-pop boats- that lead to the discussion of cnc
        > > > > > wood carving machines, apparently a no-no on a forum for discussions
        > > > > > of
        > > > > > phlatprinters. Win a few, loose a few..
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Old Frank
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Pete
        David, An interesting story. Thanks... Our son did some early research work on 3D printing at MIT as a grad student. Part of the process was cannabalizing an
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 28, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          David,

          An interesting story. Thanks...

          Our son did some early research work on 3D printing at MIT as a grad student. Part of the process was cannabalizing an EPSON inkjet printer.

          Look where the process is now.

          Check out the attached Blog approx 1/3 of the way down. I posted comments correcting some of the details. Joris asked for info He extracted several piece and dropped a stitch or tow in trying to weave them together.

          http://www.shapeways.com/blog/blog.php?url=archives/382-The-Fulton-Engine-Project-uses-3D-printing.html&serendipity[csuccess]=true

          Shapeways is a startup company located in Holland. They donated 3D printed parts for the bell mounting on our project.


          prb

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny" <dh1@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------
          > From: <kenneth@...>
          > Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 1:22 AM
          > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
          >
          > > The $1500 or less CNC machine would need to be able to cut something.
          >
          > Ah, you didn't mention that before Kenneth ;-) More specifically, you
          > didn't mention what kind of workpiece you have in mind.
          >
          > = Check out the Proxxon MF70 conversions.
          >
          > = You might also like to check out the CraftRobo type CNC swivel-knife
          > plotters. These are mostly sold to Momsy women for 'scrapbooking', and can
          > cut worthwhile sheet materials. They are just printer-sized miniatures of
          > industrial sign-writer's cutters.
          >
          >
          > Which brings us back to printers, which are genuine CNC machines in their
          > own right, and even if they can't cut directly can prepare sophisticated
          > masters for cutting sheet materials.
          >
          > I'd go for a laser printer, which can prepare toner-transfer masters for
          > chemical machining (also known as etching) and electrochemical machining
          > (similar but with cheaper less poisonous chemicals, and also known as
          > electro-etching). Special consumables are available for transferring the
          > printed image to sheet metal etc, but one can improvise with acetate or
          > even smooth paper.
          >
          > When working with sheet materials, there's a lot to be said for merely
          > printing an accurate line and cutting to it with a knife, linisher,
          > die-grinder, guillotine etc.
          >
          > I have a story from 30 years ago when I ran a CAD system for British
          > Railways. We had undertaken to extend the capacity of some privately-owned
          > cement wagons by adding cones to the ends of the existing barrels. The tops
          > of the cones had to be level with the top of the train (well, the bottoms
          > of the bridges really), and the bottoms had to be at the right angle for
          > dry cement to flow under gravity. The resulting 'oblique frustrum' was easy
          > to sketch but a pig to make. What was worse, our Contract had only days to
          > run and the financial penalties for later delivery were both substantial
          > and potentially humiliating.
          > The traditional method is to 'Develop' the flat sheet using
          > traditional drawing office methods on the biggest sheet of paper a guy
          > could reach across. Then enlarge it up to full size using careful marking
          > out on a sheet of thin steel. This would be oxy cut by eye, rolled up and
          > welded. craftsmen would then cut bits off and weld bits on until it fitted
          > the job, cut it open and use it as a template to mark out the pile of thick
          > steel plates.
          > We didn't have time for all that, so I got a guy to draw it very
          > accurately 'full-size' on the CAD computer and printed the huge curved
          > shape - as big as a bus - out on rolls of yard-wide 'wallpaper'. A lad
          > carried these up to Shildon Works by train, where they were taped down
          > direct to a thick sheet of steel. An optical flame-cutter - one with an oxy
          > torch head and photocells that automatically follows a black line - zipped
          > around the outline in no time. Now came the real test of traditional manual
          > skill. The steel was rolled to shape using the massive rollers once used
          > for locomotive boilers. Every 'pinch' had to be at a slightly different
          > pressure and a different angle, and remember this sheet is as big as a bus
          > and flopping around the roof as it bends.
          > When the Gaffer turned up on the train next day, there sitting on a
          > giant surface plate was a perfect oblique cone, edges prepped ready to
          > weld. He said there wasn't anywhere he could push a coin through the seam.
          > Contract saved. Sheet metalwork is more sophisticated these days, but I
          > doubt it's cheaper.
          >
          > David 1/2d
          >
        • frankmcneilll
          Pete, There were fountain pens then but we weren t allowed to use them at school. Crappy things with steel tips that blotted and scratched. I had a ball tip
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 28, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Pete,

            There were fountain pens then but we weren't allowed to use them at school. Crappy things with steel tips that blotted and scratched. I had a ball tip thing that I would use instead when the teacher wasn't looking. I was so sick the year I started school that my mother took me from our little town in north Texas to stay with relatives in Brazoria county which is almost as far south as Texas goes. She taught me how to read that winter, so when I had to repeat first grade next year I would read the newspaper at home before going to school to read about a couple of kids and their damned pony.


            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Frank,
            >
            > We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school?
            >
            > prb
            >
            > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Kenneth,
            > >
            > > That question is easy to answer. For $1500 or less you could buy a bunch of inkjet printers that are sold for less than it costs to manufacture them. What the manufacturers lose on printers, they get payed back several times over for ink cartridges that are getting more expensive because of all the stuff that's required to make them seem empty before they are not and prevent them from being refilled with fountain pen ink. That answer will probably generate a lot of questions from members too young to know anything about fountain pens.
            > >
            > > Best wishes, Frank
            > >
            > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, <kenneth@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > If one may ask, what are some of the better cnc machines, known to this
            > > > membership, that an individual may purchase for $1500 or less?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@>
            > > > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 PM
            > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi Flash,
            > > >
            > > > Apparently some of the other members with similar problems got there first
            > > > because the search function was back to normal a few minutes ago.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks, and best wishes,
            > > > Frank
            > > >
            > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "flashsolutions"
            > > > <flashsolutions@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Sounds like there is a technical problem with the forum. You need to PM
            > > > > Mark (kram242) and let him know you are unable to search your posts.
            > > > >
            > > > > There have been a few others reporting similar problems. As Mark makes
            > > > > changes to the forum he sometimes breaks things.
            > > > >
            > > > > Unless you tell him about it, he would not know.
            > > > >
            > > > > As moderator, I can relay that to him if you are unable to contact him
            > > > > thru your login.
            > > > >
            > > > > Just let me know and we will get it sorted out.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@>
            > > > > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi Flash,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I can still sign on to the phlatforum but am not allowed to search for
            > > > > > my
            > > > > > posts, unanswered posts and the like.
            > > > > > Without intending to do so, I replied to a new member who wrote that he
            > > > > > had
            > > > > > a physical handicap of some kind and wanted to do some kind of cnc
            > > > > > related
            > > > > > work to obtain more income. I suggested that he might produce wooden
            > > > > > pop-pop
            > > > > > boats and that lead to a mention of cnc wood carving machines. There
            > > > > > wasn't
            > > > > > any immediate response, but the next time I signed on I discovered that
            > > > > > I
            > > > > > was not allowed to use the search feature. I am not mad at anyone, it
            > > > > > was my
            > > > > > fault because I forgot that discussion of other kinds of cnc machines
            > > > > > was
            > > > > > not allowed.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
            > > > > >
            > > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, flashsolutions
            > > > > > <flashsolutions@>wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Frank,
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I cannot understand your animosity to the phlatforum. You get treated
            > > > > > > well there and Mark and Trish have thanked you numerous times for your
            > > > > > > posts.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Not everyone is into pop pop boats.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Most everyone that owns a phlatprinter are into radio controlled
            > > > > > > aircraft.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I read your posts too, and hope one day I will give them a try, but am
            > > > > > > just too busy right now.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In
            > > > > > > pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com<pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com>,
            > > > > > > "frankmcneilll"
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Hi All,
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > I stumbled onto an organization at http://www.100kgarages.com/ that
            > > > > > > might have a few members with answers to this question. I seem to have
            > > > > > > become persona non grata on the phlatforum, possibly because I replied
            > > > > > > to a disabled new member who wanted to learn more about cnc cutting
            > > > > > > machines that could provide him with additional income. I suggested
            > > > > > > the
            > > > > > > production of wooden pop-pop boats- that lead to the discussion of cnc
            > > > > > > wood carving machines, apparently a no-no on a forum for discussions
            > > > > > > of
            > > > > > > phlatprinters. Win a few, loose a few..
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > Old Frank
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Pete
            How was it reading by candle light? LOL The story that goes with it is my visit to my elementary school from 50 yrs ago. A group of my classmates and I went
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 28, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              How was it reading by candle light? LOL

              The story that goes with it is my visit to my elementary school from 50 yrs ago. A group of my classmates and I went back to our school while it was in session. We split up into groups of 4 and went around to each classroom for question and answer session, rotating every 15 minutes or so. In one of the classrooms I visited a little girl, in all seriousness, asked how it was studying by gas lights. We all got a chuckle. TRUE STORY!

              prb

              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
              >
              > Pete,
              >
              > There were fountain pens then but we weren't allowed to use them at school. Crappy things with steel tips that blotted and scratched. I had a ball tip thing that I would use instead when the teacher wasn't looking. I was so sick the year I started school that my mother took me from our little town in north Texas to stay with relatives in Brazoria county which is almost as far south as Texas goes. She taught me how to read that winter, so when I had to repeat first grade next year I would read the newspaper at home before going to school to read about a couple of kids and their damned pony.
              >
              >
              > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Frank,
              > >
              > > We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school?
              > >
              > > prb
              > >
              > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Kenneth,
              > > >
              > > > That question is easy to answer. For $1500 or less you could buy a bunch of inkjet printers that are sold for less than it costs to manufacture them. What the manufacturers lose on printers, they get payed back several times over for ink cartridges that are getting more expensive because of all the stuff that's required to make them seem empty before they are not and prevent them from being refilled with fountain pen ink. That answer will probably generate a lot of questions from members too young to know anything about fountain pens.
              > > >
              > > > Best wishes, Frank
              > > >
              > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, <kenneth@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > If one may ask, what are some of the better cnc machines, known to this
              > > > > membership, that an individual may purchase for $1500 or less?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > From: "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@>
              > > > > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 PM
              > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi Flash,
              > > > >
              > > > > Apparently some of the other members with similar problems got there first
              > > > > because the search function was back to normal a few minutes ago.
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks, and best wishes,
              > > > > Frank
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "flashsolutions"
              > > > > <flashsolutions@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Sounds like there is a technical problem with the forum. You need to PM
              > > > > > Mark (kram242) and let him know you are unable to search your posts.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > There have been a few others reporting similar problems. As Mark makes
              > > > > > changes to the forum he sometimes breaks things.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Unless you tell him about it, he would not know.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > As moderator, I can relay that to him if you are unable to contact him
              > > > > > thru your login.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Just let me know and we will get it sorted out.
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@>
              > > > > > wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Hi Flash,
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I can still sign on to the phlatforum but am not allowed to search for
              > > > > > > my
              > > > > > > posts, unanswered posts and the like.
              > > > > > > Without intending to do so, I replied to a new member who wrote that he
              > > > > > > had
              > > > > > > a physical handicap of some kind and wanted to do some kind of cnc
              > > > > > > related
              > > > > > > work to obtain more income. I suggested that he might produce wooden
              > > > > > > pop-pop
              > > > > > > boats and that lead to a mention of cnc wood carving machines. There
              > > > > > > wasn't
              > > > > > > any immediate response, but the next time I signed on I discovered that
              > > > > > > I
              > > > > > > was not allowed to use the search feature. I am not mad at anyone, it
              > > > > > > was my
              > > > > > > fault because I forgot that discussion of other kinds of cnc machines
              > > > > > > was
              > > > > > > not allowed.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, flashsolutions
              > > > > > > <flashsolutions@>wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Frank,
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > I cannot understand your animosity to the phlatforum. You get treated
              > > > > > > > well there and Mark and Trish have thanked you numerous times for your
              > > > > > > > posts.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Not everyone is into pop pop boats.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Most everyone that owns a phlatprinter are into radio controlled
              > > > > > > > aircraft.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > I read your posts too, and hope one day I will give them a try, but am
              > > > > > > > just too busy right now.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > --- In
              > > > > > > > pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com<pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com>,
              > > > > > > > "frankmcneilll"
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Hi All,
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > I stumbled onto an organization at http://www.100kgarages.com/ that
              > > > > > > > might have a few members with answers to this question. I seem to have
              > > > > > > > become persona non grata on the phlatforum, possibly because I replied
              > > > > > > > to a disabled new member who wanted to learn more about cnc cutting
              > > > > > > > machines that could provide him with additional income. I suggested
              > > > > > > > the
              > > > > > > > production of wooden pop-pop boats- that lead to the discussion of cnc
              > > > > > > > wood carving machines, apparently a no-no on a forum for discussions
              > > > > > > > of
              > > > > > > > phlatprinters. Win a few, loose a few..
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Old Frank
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • frankmcneilll
              That was sarcasm Pete.
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 2, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                That was sarcasm Pete.

                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > How was it reading by candle light? LOL
                >
                > The story that goes with it is my visit to my elementary school from 50 yrs ago. A group of my classmates and I went back to our school while it was in session. We split up into groups of 4 and went around to each classroom for question and answer session, rotating every 15 minutes or so. In one of the classrooms I visited a little girl, in all seriousness, asked how it was studying by gas lights. We all got a chuckle. TRUE STORY!
                >
                > prb
                >
                > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Pete,
                > >
                > > There were fountain pens then but we weren't allowed to use them at school. Crappy things with steel tips that blotted and scratched. I had a ball tip thing that I would use instead when the teacher wasn't looking. I was so sick the year I started school that my mother took me from our little town in north Texas to stay with relatives in Brazoria county which is almost as far south as Texas goes. She taught me how to read that winter, so when I had to repeat first grade next year I would read the newspaper at home before going to school to read about a couple of kids and their damned pony.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Frank,
                > > >
                > > > We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school?
                > > >
                > > > prb
                > > >
                > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi Kenneth,
                > > > >
                > > > > That question is easy to answer. For $1500 or less you could buy a bunch of inkjet printers that are sold for less than it costs to manufacture them. What the manufacturers lose on printers, they get payed back several times over for ink cartridges that are getting more expensive because of all the stuff that's required to make them seem empty before they are not and prevent them from being refilled with fountain pen ink. That answer will probably generate a lot of questions from members too young to know anything about fountain pens.
                > > > >
                > > > > Best wishes, Frank
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, <kenneth@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > If one may ask, what are some of the better cnc machines, known to this
                > > > > > membership, that an individual may purchase for $1500 or less?
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > > From: "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@>
                > > > > > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 PM
                > > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hi Flash,
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Apparently some of the other members with similar problems got there first
                > > > > > because the search function was back to normal a few minutes ago.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Thanks, and best wishes,
                > > > > > Frank
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "flashsolutions"
                > > > > > <flashsolutions@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Sounds like there is a technical problem with the forum. You need to PM
                > > > > > > Mark (kram242) and let him know you are unable to search your posts.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > There have been a few others reporting similar problems. As Mark makes
                > > > > > > changes to the forum he sometimes breaks things.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Unless you tell him about it, he would not know.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > As moderator, I can relay that to him if you are unable to contact him
                > > > > > > thru your login.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Just let me know and we will get it sorted out.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@>
                > > > > > > wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Hi Flash,
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > I can still sign on to the phlatforum but am not allowed to search for
                > > > > > > > my
                > > > > > > > posts, unanswered posts and the like.
                > > > > > > > Without intending to do so, I replied to a new member who wrote that he
                > > > > > > > had
                > > > > > > > a physical handicap of some kind and wanted to do some kind of cnc
                > > > > > > > related
                > > > > > > > work to obtain more income. I suggested that he might produce wooden
                > > > > > > > pop-pop
                > > > > > > > boats and that lead to a mention of cnc wood carving machines. There
                > > > > > > > wasn't
                > > > > > > > any immediate response, but the next time I signed on I discovered that
                > > > > > > > I
                > > > > > > > was not allowed to use the search feature. I am not mad at anyone, it
                > > > > > > > was my
                > > > > > > > fault because I forgot that discussion of other kinds of cnc machines
                > > > > > > > was
                > > > > > > > not allowed.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, flashsolutions
                > > > > > > > <flashsolutions@>wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Frank,
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > I cannot understand your animosity to the phlatforum. You get treated
                > > > > > > > > well there and Mark and Trish have thanked you numerous times for your
                > > > > > > > > posts.
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Not everyone is into pop pop boats.
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Most everyone that owns a phlatprinter are into radio controlled
                > > > > > > > > aircraft.
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > I read your posts too, and hope one day I will give them a try, but am
                > > > > > > > > just too busy right now.
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > --- In
                > > > > > > > > pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com<pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > > > > > > > > "frankmcneilll"
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > I stumbled onto an organization at http://www.100kgarages.com/ that
                > > > > > > > > might have a few members with answers to this question. I seem to have
                > > > > > > > > become persona non grata on the phlatforum, possibly because I replied
                > > > > > > > > to a disabled new member who wanted to learn more about cnc cutting
                > > > > > > > > machines that could provide him with additional income. I suggested
                > > > > > > > > the
                > > > > > > > > production of wooden pop-pop boats- that lead to the discussion of cnc
                > > > > > > > > wood carving machines, apparently a no-no on a forum for discussions
                > > > > > > > > of
                > > > > > > > > phlatprinters. Win a few, loose a few..
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > > Old Frank
                > > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Pete
                You messed up your sentence structure. It should have read Was that sarcasm Pete ? My first drafting was done on a 24 x 30 inch drawing board. You used a T
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 2, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  You messed up your sentence structure. It should have read "Was that sarcasm Pete"?

                  My first drafting was done on a 24 x 30 inch drawing board. You used a "T" square for horizontal lines and a triangle for vertical lines. Circles were done with a wooden pencil compass. Pencils were not unlike the good old No. 2's. The vellum was fastened to the board with thumbtacks. You sharpened the pencil with a file that was thinned and hooked on the end. Can you guess what for? Yup, the hooked file was used to remove the thumb tacks.

                  Pete

                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > That was sarcasm Pete.
                  >
                  > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > How was it reading by candle light? LOL
                  > >
                  > > The story that goes with it is my visit to my elementary school from 50 yrs ago. A group of my classmates and I went back to our school while it was in session. We split up into groups of 4 and went around to each classroom for question and answer session, rotating every 15 minutes or so. In one of the classrooms I visited a little girl, in all seriousness, asked how it was studying by gas lights. We all got a chuckle. TRUE STORY!
                  > >
                  > > prb
                  > >
                  > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Pete,
                  > > >
                  > > > There were fountain pens then but we weren't allowed to use them at school. Crappy things with steel tips that blotted and scratched. I had a ball tip thing that I would use instead when the teacher wasn't looking. I was so sick the year I started school that my mother took me from our little town in north Texas to stay with relatives in Brazoria county which is almost as far south as Texas goes. She taught me how to read that winter, so when I had to repeat first grade next year I would read the newspaper at home before going to school to read about a couple of kids and their damned pony.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Frank,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school?
                  > > > >
                  > > > > prb
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi Kenneth,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > That question is easy to answer. For $1500 or less you could buy a bunch of inkjet printers that are sold for less than it costs to manufacture them. What the manufacturers lose on printers, they get payed back several times over for ink cartridges that are getting more expensive because of all the stuff that's required to make them seem empty before they are not and prevent them from being refilled with fountain pen ink. That answer will probably generate a lot of questions from members too young to know anything about fountain pens.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, <kenneth@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > If one may ask, what are some of the better cnc machines, known to this
                  > > > > > > membership, that an individual may purchase for $1500 or less?
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > > > > > From: "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@>
                  > > > > > > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 PM
                  > > > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Hi Flash,
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Apparently some of the other members with similar problems got there first
                  > > > > > > because the search function was back to normal a few minutes ago.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Thanks, and best wishes,
                  > > > > > > Frank
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "flashsolutions"
                  > > > > > > <flashsolutions@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Sounds like there is a technical problem with the forum. You need to PM
                  > > > > > > > Mark (kram242) and let him know you are unable to search your posts.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > There have been a few others reporting similar problems. As Mark makes
                  > > > > > > > changes to the forum he sometimes breaks things.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Unless you tell him about it, he would not know.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > As moderator, I can relay that to him if you are unable to contact him
                  > > > > > > > thru your login.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Just let me know and we will get it sorted out.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@>
                  > > > > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > Hi Flash,
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > I can still sign on to the phlatforum but am not allowed to search for
                  > > > > > > > > my
                  > > > > > > > > posts, unanswered posts and the like.
                  > > > > > > > > Without intending to do so, I replied to a new member who wrote that he
                  > > > > > > > > had
                  > > > > > > > > a physical handicap of some kind and wanted to do some kind of cnc
                  > > > > > > > > related
                  > > > > > > > > work to obtain more income. I suggested that he might produce wooden
                  > > > > > > > > pop-pop
                  > > > > > > > > boats and that lead to a mention of cnc wood carving machines. There
                  > > > > > > > > wasn't
                  > > > > > > > > any immediate response, but the next time I signed on I discovered that
                  > > > > > > > > I
                  > > > > > > > > was not allowed to use the search feature. I am not mad at anyone, it
                  > > > > > > > > was my
                  > > > > > > > > fault because I forgot that discussion of other kinds of cnc machines
                  > > > > > > > > was
                  > > > > > > > > not allowed.
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, flashsolutions
                  > > > > > > > > <flashsolutions@>wrote:
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > Frank,
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > I cannot understand your animosity to the phlatforum. You get treated
                  > > > > > > > > > well there and Mark and Trish have thanked you numerous times for your
                  > > > > > > > > > posts.
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > Not everyone is into pop pop boats.
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > Most everyone that owns a phlatprinter are into radio controlled
                  > > > > > > > > > aircraft.
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > I read your posts too, and hope one day I will give them a try, but am
                  > > > > > > > > > just too busy right now.
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > --- In
                  > > > > > > > > > pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com<pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > > > > > > > > > "frankmcneilll"
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > > I stumbled onto an organization at http://www.100kgarages.com/ that
                  > > > > > > > > > might have a few members with answers to this question. I seem to have
                  > > > > > > > > > become persona non grata on the phlatforum, possibly because I replied
                  > > > > > > > > > to a disabled new member who wanted to learn more about cnc cutting
                  > > > > > > > > > machines that could provide him with additional income. I suggested
                  > > > > > > > > > the
                  > > > > > > > > > production of wooden pop-pop boats- that lead to the discussion of cnc
                  > > > > > > > > > wood carving machines, apparently a no-no on a forum for discussions
                  > > > > > > > > > of
                  > > > > > > > > > phlatprinters. Win a few, loose a few..
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > > > Old Frank
                  > > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • frankmcneilll
                  Hi Pete, Mine was done pretty much the same way. Crappy pens with screws for adjusting line width were dipped into India ink to trace drawings onto onion skin
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 2, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Pete,

                    Mine was done pretty much the same way. Crappy pens with screws for adjusting line width were dipped into India ink to trace drawings onto onion skin paper.
                    Blue prints were made by placing ink tracings over blue paper and and putting drawing boards with blue paper and tracings on a flat roofs and hoping that it wouldn't rain. Blue prints were blue then, and lines, inkblots and bird droppings on onion skin paper would show up as white lines and blobs on prints.

                    --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > You messed up your sentence structure. It should have read "Was that sarcasm Pete"?
                    >
                    > My first drafting was done on a 24 x 30 inch drawing board. You used a "T" square for horizontal lines and a triangle for vertical lines. Circles were done with a wooden pencil compass. Pencils were not unlike the good old No. 2's. The vellum was fastened to the board with thumbtacks. You sharpened the pencil with a file that was thinned and hooked on the end. Can you guess what for? Yup, the hooked file was used to remove the thumb tacks.
                    >
                    > Pete
                    >
                    > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > That was sarcasm Pete.
                    > >
                    > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > How was it reading by candle light? LOL
                    > > >
                    > > > The story that goes with it is my visit to my elementary school from 50 yrs ago. A group of my classmates and I went back to our school while it was in session. We split up into groups of 4 and went around to each classroom for question and answer session, rotating every 15 minutes or so. In one of the classrooms I visited a little girl, in all seriousness, asked how it was studying by gas lights. We all got a chuckle. TRUE STORY!
                    > > >
                    > > > prb
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Pete,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > There were fountain pens then but we weren't allowed to use them at school. Crappy things with steel tips that blotted and scratched. I had a ball tip thing that I would use instead when the teacher wasn't looking. I was so sick the year I started school that my mother took me from our little town in north Texas to stay with relatives in Brazoria county which is almost as far south as Texas goes. She taught me how to read that winter, so when I had to repeat first grade next year I would read the newspaper at home before going to school to read about a couple of kids and their damned pony.
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete" <georgeyyy@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Frank,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > We go back to B4 fountain pens. Remember the stick pens and desk ink wells in school?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > prb
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Hi Kenneth,
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > That question is easy to answer. For $1500 or less you could buy a bunch of inkjet printers that are sold for less than it costs to manufacture them. What the manufacturers lose on printers, they get payed back several times over for ink cartridges that are getting more expensive because of all the stuff that's required to make them seem empty before they are not and prevent them from being refilled with fountain pen ink. That answer will probably generate a lot of questions from members too young to know anything about fountain pens.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, <kenneth@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > If one may ask, what are some of the better cnc machines, known to this
                    > > > > > > > membership, that an individual may purchase for $1500 or less?
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > > > From: "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@>
                    > > > > > > > To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:50 PM
                    > > > > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Want to get something made?
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Hi Flash,
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Apparently some of the other members with similar problems got there first
                    > > > > > > > because the search function was back to normal a few minutes ago.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Thanks, and best wishes,
                    > > > > > > > Frank
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "flashsolutions"
                    > > > > > > > <flashsolutions@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Sounds like there is a technical problem with the forum. You need to PM
                    > > > > > > > > Mark (kram242) and let him know you are unable to search your posts.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > There have been a few others reporting similar problems. As Mark makes
                    > > > > > > > > changes to the forum he sometimes breaks things.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Unless you tell him about it, he would not know.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > As moderator, I can relay that to him if you are unable to contact him
                    > > > > > > > > thru your login.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Just let me know and we will get it sorted out.
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@>
                    > > > > > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > Hi Flash,
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > I can still sign on to the phlatforum but am not allowed to search for
                    > > > > > > > > > my
                    > > > > > > > > > posts, unanswered posts and the like.
                    > > > > > > > > > Without intending to do so, I replied to a new member who wrote that he
                    > > > > > > > > > had
                    > > > > > > > > > a physical handicap of some kind and wanted to do some kind of cnc
                    > > > > > > > > > related
                    > > > > > > > > > work to obtain more income. I suggested that he might produce wooden
                    > > > > > > > > > pop-pop
                    > > > > > > > > > boats and that lead to a mention of cnc wood carving machines. There
                    > > > > > > > > > wasn't
                    > > > > > > > > > any immediate response, but the next time I signed on I discovered that
                    > > > > > > > > > I
                    > > > > > > > > > was not allowed to use the search feature. I am not mad at anyone, it
                    > > > > > > > > > was my
                    > > > > > > > > > fault because I forgot that discussion of other kinds of cnc machines
                    > > > > > > > > > was
                    > > > > > > > > > not allowed.
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, Frank
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 11:04 AM, flashsolutions
                    > > > > > > > > > <flashsolutions@>wrote:
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > Frank,
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > I cannot understand your animosity to the phlatforum. You get treated
                    > > > > > > > > > > well there and Mark and Trish have thanked you numerous times for your
                    > > > > > > > > > > posts.
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > Not everyone is into pop pop boats.
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > Most everyone that owns a phlatprinter are into radio controlled
                    > > > > > > > > > > aircraft.
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > I read your posts too, and hope one day I will give them a try, but am
                    > > > > > > > > > > just too busy right now.
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > --- In
                    > > > > > > > > > > pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com<pop-pop-steamboats%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > > > > > > > > > > "frankmcneilll"
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All,
                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > > I stumbled onto an organization at http://www.100kgarages.com/ that
                    > > > > > > > > > > might have a few members with answers to this question. I seem to have
                    > > > > > > > > > > become persona non grata on the phlatforum, possibly because I replied
                    > > > > > > > > > > to a disabled new member who wanted to learn more about cnc cutting
                    > > > > > > > > > > machines that could provide him with additional income. I suggested
                    > > > > > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > > > > production of wooden pop-pop boats- that lead to the discussion of cnc
                    > > > > > > > > > > wood carving machines, apparently a no-no on a forum for discussions
                    > > > > > > > > > > of
                    > > > > > > > > > > phlatprinters. Win a few, loose a few..
                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > > Old Frank
                    > > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
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