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Re: Inside Indian engine?

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  • zoomkat
    ... Air leaks can result on dryout and overheating. I d suggest a positive and negative pressure test on your boilers to see if leaks have developed. If there
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 9, 2009
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      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <p-40.av8r@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Arno.
      >
      > By the way I am still working on the instructions for you, but the motor is still overheating. I am having trouble getting suitable thin walled brass pipe. Brass pipe is like rocking horse poo around here. The all copper pipes get to hot through the length, and it eventually stops. Perseverance will again hopefully pay off. Thanks for your patience.
      >
      > Very best regards.
      >
      > Tim

      Air leaks can result on dryout and overheating. I'd suggest a positive and negative pressure test on your boilers to see if leaks have developed. If there are airleaks on the seams, you may want to try some sealant to see if this fixes the problem. If there are no air leaks you may want to try reducing the angle of the boiler a little to increase the water feed to the boileron each cycle.
    • Tim
      Hi Zoomkat. Thanks for the suggestions. It would seem I am not very good at making diaphragm types as I tested my motor at 8 Bar pressure on a compressor and
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 9, 2009
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        Hi Zoomkat.

        Thanks for the suggestions. It would seem I am not very good at making diaphragm types as I tested my motor at 8 Bar pressure on a compressor and with a manometer for an hour, with no leaks. The motor did not leak, but after some testing, and running, it does. Though the pop pop noise is fun, I think I will concentrate mainly on boiler types as I have found it harder to make diaphragm motors reliable, and they appear to be more limited to the heat you can put into them. Also the information Jean-Yves presents is mainly for non diaphragm boiler types, and I find I am getting more predictable and satisfying results as well as better reliability . Also I am almost exclusively silver brazing my motors now, as I am using high temperatures, thanks to advice found here. The main reason is I do not wish to contaminate the lovely lake I intend to use with oil, in the event of a leakage or accident, so I am mainly investigating solid fuels. I have not succesfully made a diaphragm motor silver brazing yet, despite numerous attempts. My wife also complains less at long endurance testing of non popping motors. The latter is probably the most important aspect of my development process!

        Many thanks and best regards.

        Tim


        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <p-40.av8r@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Arno.
        > >
        > > By the way I am still working on the instructions for you, but the motor is still overheating. I am having trouble getting suitable thin walled brass pipe. Brass pipe is like rocking horse poo around here. The all copper pipes get to hot through the length, and it eventually stops. Perseverance will again hopefully pay off. Thanks for your patience.
        > >
        > > Very best regards.
        > >
        > > Tim
        >
        > Air leaks can result on dryout and overheating. I'd suggest a positive and negative pressure test on your boilers to see if leaks have developed. If there are airleaks on the seams, you may want to try some sealant to see if this fixes the problem. If there are no air leaks you may want to try reducing the angle of the boiler a little to increase the water feed to the boileron each cycle.
        >
      • zoomkat
        The only real difference between diaphragm and non diaphragm engines is boiler layout and construction methods. The main function of the diaphram is to make
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 9, 2009
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          The only real difference between diaphragm and non diaphragm engines is boiler layout and construction methods. The main function of the diaphram is to make noise. The below video shows a working combination of both.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjE_wRtvA5c

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <p-40.av8r@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Zoomkat.
          >
          > Thanks for the suggestions. It would seem I am not very good at making diaphragm types as I tested my motor at 8 Bar pressure on a compressor and with a manometer for an hour, with no leaks. The motor did not leak, but after some testing, and running, it does. Though the pop pop noise is fun, I think I will concentrate mainly on boiler types as I have found it harder to make diaphragm motors reliable, and they appear to be more limited to the heat you can put into them. Also the information Jean-Yves presents is mainly for non diaphragm boiler types, and I find I am getting more predictable and satisfying results as well as better reliability . Also I am almost exclusively silver brazing my motors now, as I am using high temperatures, thanks to advice found here. The main reason is I do not wish to contaminate the lovely lake I intend to use with oil, in the event of a leakage or accident, so I am mainly investigating solid fuels. I have not succesfully made a diaphragm motor silver brazing yet, despite numerous attempts. My wife also complains less at long endurance testing of non popping motors. The latter is probably the most important aspect of my development process!
          >
          > Many thanks and best regards.
          >
          > Tim
          >
          >
          > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <p-40.av8r@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi Arno.
          > > >
          > > > By the way I am still working on the instructions for you, but the motor is still overheating. I am having trouble getting suitable thin walled brass pipe. Brass pipe is like rocking horse poo around here. The all copper pipes get to hot through the length, and it eventually stops. Perseverance will again hopefully pay off. Thanks for your patience.
          > > >
          > > > Very best regards.
          > > >
          > > > Tim
          > >
          > > Air leaks can result on dryout and overheating. I'd suggest a positive and negative pressure test on your boilers to see if leaks have developed. If there are airleaks on the seams, you may want to try some sealant to see if this fixes the problem. If there are no air leaks you may want to try reducing the angle of the boiler a little to increase the water feed to the boileron each cycle.
          > >
          >
        • David Halfpenny
          ... From: zoomkat Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:15 PM To: Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re:
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 9, 2009
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            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@...>
            Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:15 PM
            To: <pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Inside Indian engine?

            > The only real difference between diaphragm and non diaphragm engines is
            > boiler layout and construction methods. The main function of the diaphram
            > is to make noise. The below video shows a working combination of both.
            >
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjE_wRtvA5c

            Hey Zoomkat, that is exactly what I have been wondering.

            Separating out the diaphragm not only takes it way from the direct heat, it
            also provides a separate "air spring" for the resonance - and of course its
            volume may well be a critical part of the design.

            I would like to know how the Frequency of pops corresponds to power output,
            but I'm not expecting a simple answer.

            David 1/2d
          • zoomkat
            ... What I find of probably more interest is that the detached diaphram setup may well be serving as a controlled steam condensing unit. I ve started another
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 9, 2009
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              > >
              > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjE_wRtvA5c
              >
              > Hey Zoomkat, that is exactly what I have been wondering.
              >
              > Separating out the diaphragm not only takes it way from the direct heat, it
              > also provides a separate "air spring" for the resonance - and of course its
              > volume may well be a critical part of the design.
              >
              > I would like to know how the Frequency of pops corresponds to power output,
              > but I'm not expecting a simple answer.
              >
              > David 1/2d

              What I find of probably more interest is that the detached diaphram setup may well be serving as a controlled steam condensing unit. I've started another discussion on the pop pop condensation cycle. The engine in the video is very similar to an idea I have for a stand off condensing unit for a larger engine.
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