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Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Hottest part of flame in a candle/oil burner/alcohol burner.

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  • Frank McNeill
    Hi epikflyer, Similar topics have come up and been discussed before. One of the best replies came from Vance Bass, author of The Pop-Pop Pages. Message #498
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 7, 2009
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      Hi epikflyer,

      Similar topics have come up and been discussed before. One of the best
      replies came from Vance Bass, author of The Pop-Pop Pages.

      Message #498 Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] That thread about a hotter burning fuel

      My experience indicates that you don't necessarily want a hotter fuel. The
      problem is that a really hot fire makes it harder to get the cold zone necessary
      for the condensation part of the the pulse cycle.
      I built a boat with a very hot alcohol burner and the thing would not run after
      a short period. When I changed the burner to something less aggressive, it ran
      fine. So, I think that if you are going to have a really hot burner,
      you must also
      take pains to have a really effective cool zone. This could be a "sump pump"
      evaporator, running the tubes into the water and along the underside of the boat
      rather than out the rear transom.

      regards,
      -vance-

      Vance Bass

      On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:02 PM, epikflyer<p-40.av8r@...> wrote:
      > Hi all.
      >
      > I have done a bit of searching but to no avail. I did some flame cutting at college and was taught the hottest part of the flame was the tip, created by the nozzle and the controlling of the mixture of oxygen and acetylene. The other forms of heating mentioned above are far less controllable, other than wick adjustments, but is the tip of the flame still the hottest?
      >
      > If anyone can shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated.
      >
      > My reason for asking is that I was considering using a butane/propane mix in a mini blow torch for constant and controllable heat, but for a soldered motor, the flame is to hot and melts the solder. Also from reading several pages of research from various members, I believe that all pop pop motors burn out when they get to hot. Even coils.
      >
      > Because of this I am making an oil burner, and intend to use vegetable oil for fuel,(The only reason for this is because the smell reminds me of my childhood and gives me happy memories of when I played with these boats as a kid in Bangladesh) and would like to optimize the height of the boiler above the flame to get the most out of the new engine I am building. I have turned 2 copper heating plates, and bored out some brass on the works lathe and soldered them together then machined the lot again. I am on the Mk. 4 version as the others were hard to produce, and I thought would not be reliable. I am as yet undecided how many pipes to use and of what bore, but Daryl Canada's designs are inspirational for me.
      > He is the master of elegant and functional pop pops in my humble opinion.
      >
      > Many thanks and best regards.
      >
      > Tim.
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >



      --
      Stealing ideas from one person is plagiarism.
      Stealing ideas from many people is research.
    • frankmcneilll
      Reply to epikflyer, aka Tim with copy to self, aka Old Frank, Don t give up on the idea for using some kind of butane/propane fired gadget. Think more along
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 7, 2009
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        Reply to epikflyer, aka Tim with copy to self, aka Old Frank,

        Don't give up on the idea for using some kind of butane/propane fired gadget. Think more along the lines of miniature chafing dishes,fondue heaters or candle lighters though instead of torches.

        Old Frank

        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi epikflyer,
        >
        > Similar topics have come up and been discussed before. One of the best
        > replies came from Vance Bass, author of The Pop-Pop Pages.
        >
        > Message #498 Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] That thread about a hotter burning fuel
        >
        > My experience indicates that you don't necessarily want a hotter fuel. The
        > problem is that a really hot fire makes it harder to get the cold zone necessary
        > for the condensation part of the the pulse cycle.
        > I built a boat with a very hot alcohol burner and the thing would not run after
        > a short period. When I changed the burner to something less aggressive, it ran
        > fine. So, I think that if you are going to have a really hot burner,
        > you must also
        > take pains to have a really effective cool zone. This could be a "sump pump"
        > evaporator, running the tubes into the water and along the underside of the boat
        > rather than out the rear transom.
        >
        > regards,
        > -vance-
        >
        > Vance Bass
        >
        > On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:02 PM, epikflyer<p-40.av8r@...> wrote:
        > > Hi all.
        > >
        > > I have done a bit of searching but to no avail. I did some flame cutting at college and was taught the hottest part of the flame was the tip, created by the nozzle and the controlling of the mixture of oxygen and acetylene. The other forms of heating mentioned above are far less controllable, other than wick adjustments, but is the tip of the flame still the hottest?
        > >
        > > If anyone can shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated.
        > >
        > > My reason for asking is that I was considering using a butane/propane mix in a mini blow torch for constant and controllable heat, but for a soldered motor, the flame is to hot and melts the solder. Also from reading several pages of research from various members, I believe that all pop pop motors burn out when they get to hot. Even coils.
        > >
        > > Because of this I am making an oil burner, and intend to use vegetable oil for fuel,(The only reason for this is because the smell reminds me of my childhood and gives me happy memories of when I played with these boats as a kid in Bangladesh) and would like to optimize the height of the boiler above the flame to get the most out of the new engine I am building. I have turned 2 copper heating plates, and bored out some brass on the works lathe and soldered them together then machined the lot again. I am on the Mk. 4 version as the others were hard to produce, and I thought would not be reliable. I am as yet undecided how many pipes to use and of what bore, but Daryl Canada's designs are inspirational for me.
        > > He is the master of elegant and functional pop pops in my humble opinion.
        > >
        > > Many thanks and best regards.
        > >
        > > Tim.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Stealing ideas from one person is plagiarism.
        > Stealing ideas from many people is research.
        >
      • epikflyer
        Many thanks for the link and advice Frank.
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 8, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Many thanks for the link and advice Frank.

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
          >
          > Reply to epikflyer, aka Tim with copy to self, aka Old Frank,
          >
          > Don't give up on the idea for using some kind of butane/propane fired gadget. Think more along the lines of miniature chafing dishes,fondue heaters or candle lighters though instead of torches.
          >
          > Old Frank
          >
          > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Frank McNeill <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi epikflyer,
          > >
          > > Similar topics have come up and been discussed before. One of the best
          > > replies came from Vance Bass, author of The Pop-Pop Pages.
          > >
          > > Message #498 Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] That thread about a hotter burning fuel
          > >
          > > My experience indicates that you don't necessarily want a hotter fuel. The
          > > problem is that a really hot fire makes it harder to get the cold zone necessary
          > > for the condensation part of the the pulse cycle.
          > > I built a boat with a very hot alcohol burner and the thing would not run after
          > > a short period. When I changed the burner to something less aggressive, it ran
          > > fine. So, I think that if you are going to have a really hot burner,
          > > you must also
          > > take pains to have a really effective cool zone. This could be a "sump pump"
          > > evaporator, running the tubes into the water and along the underside of the boat
          > > rather than out the rear transom.
          > >
          > > regards,
          > > -vance-
          > >
          > > Vance Bass
          > >
          > > On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:02 PM, epikflyer<p-40.av8r@> wrote:
          > > > Hi all.
          > > >
          > > > I have done a bit of searching but to no avail. I did some flame cutting at college and was taught the hottest part of the flame was the tip, created by the nozzle and the controlling of the mixture of oxygen and acetylene. The other forms of heating mentioned above are far less controllable, other than wick adjustments, but is the tip of the flame still the hottest?
          > > >
          > > > If anyone can shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated.
          > > >
          > > > My reason for asking is that I was considering using a butane/propane mix in a mini blow torch for constant and controllable heat, but for a soldered motor, the flame is to hot and melts the solder. Also from reading several pages of research from various members, I believe that all pop pop motors burn out when they get to hot. Even coils.
          > > >
          > > > Because of this I am making an oil burner, and intend to use vegetable oil for fuel,(The only reason for this is because the smell reminds me of my childhood and gives me happy memories of when I played with these boats as a kid in Bangladesh) and would like to optimize the height of the boiler above the flame to get the most out of the new engine I am building. I have turned 2 copper heating plates, and bored out some brass on the works lathe and soldered them together then machined the lot again. I am on the Mk. 4 version as the others were hard to produce, and I thought would not be reliable. I am as yet undecided how many pipes to use and of what bore, but Daryl Canada's designs are inspirational for me.
          > > > He is the master of elegant and functional pop pops in my humble opinion.
          > > >
          > > > Many thanks and best regards.
          > > >
          > > > Tim.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > Stealing ideas from one person is plagiarism.
          > > Stealing ideas from many people is research.
          > >
          >
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