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Re: New member. Advice on number of coils please.

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  • jeanyves_renaud
    Hi Frank, OK to display my files on your forum. I have nothing to sell and nothing to hide. But users are to be aware of the fact the content is what I knew or
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 2 12:05 AM
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      Hi Frank,

      OK to display my files on your forum. I have nothing to sell and nothing to hide. But users are to be aware of the fact the content is what I knew or thought at the dates which are on the documents. The last update of each document is the one in my PC, and then it is the one on Loïc's site…because I don't inform Loïc in real time and then he takes time to implement the modifications. If I look at what happened in the past years, there has been many improvements and corrections. For instance, 4 years ago I thought (and I read on various papers and sites) that some gas inside the engine was detrimental to its performances. Since that time I have demonstrated that it is the opposite.


      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll" <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Jean-Yves,
      >
      > I have added the English translations of some of your pop-pop material to a folder titled "Pop-pop - La page de Jean-Yves" for the benefit of other members.
      > Our member Jorge Hugo Cordero has video at http://tinyurl.com/moykf9 that confirms your theory about single pipes with closed ends.
      > The "Achilles' Heel" of single pipe engines might be their inability to purge air that comes out of solution and accumulates in those closed ends. That might make the asymmetry of two pipe engines more of a virtue than a fault. It also suggests a method for steering boats with two pipe coiled or straight tube engines by using dampers to shift heat application from one end to the other.
      >
      > Best wishes, Frank
      >
      >
      > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud" boite.de.j-y@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Frank,
      > > Thank you for reminding old messages. There are so many...
      > > I agree with you on the fact there is no need of several loops. To
      > > demonstrate that a pop-pop engine is not always working symmetrical I
      > > built a very simple one with classic copper material. Look at page 2 on
      > > the doc entitled "Pop-pop engine or pump" on www.eclecticspace.net
      > > <http://www.eclecticspace.net> . This very simple engine worked.
      > > However, I must comfess that its thrust was weak.
      > > I have an even simpler theory: any pipe closed at the end which is
      > > heated can work as a pop-pop engine. The simplest one is a strait pipe.
      > > This theory is easy to demonstrate with pipe ID 10 to 25mm. It is more
      > > difficult with small ID because the heating power window becomes very
      > > narrow. Too low power and the engine doesn't start. Too much power and
      > > it goes soon to burnout. On stationary plants with electrical heating I
      > > succeded several times to run during half an hour engines having an ID
      > > down to 4mm.
      > >
      > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll"
      > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > There is a type of tubing that does not require coils.
      > > > Go to message number 55 by Richard Jenkins about his adventures with
      > > pop-pop boats. There are pictures of his boat Popflea in a photos
      > > brochure titled Popflea and Firefly. Later Richard found the series of
      > > articles in the British magazine Model Boats and posted a pdf file
      > > titled "article_ModelBoats_4-96.pdf to the Files section.
      > > > What might be a better way to install tubing is described in message
      > > number 498 by Vance Bass about the need for a really effective cool
      > > zone. This could be a "sump pump" evaporator, running the tubes into the
      > > water and along the underside of the boat rather than out the rear
      > > transom.
      > > > It might also be done by arranging several square tubes to pass over a
      > > boat from side to side and turn down and back to enter the water and
      > > propel the boat after the tubes were filled with water and heated to
      > > generate steam. A sketch used as a temporary home page picture might
      > > make this explanation easier to understand.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer" epikflyer@
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi jeanyves
      > > > >
      > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable and fascinating advice. I will
      > > take this into great consideration while building my motors. I have seen
      > > the works of Mr. Guus and the pop pop "klompern" are indeed impressive.
      > > I applaud your scientific approach to your experimentation, in the
      > > evaluation of your motors and thank you for sharing the results. I will
      > > bear this in mind with my developments and of course, share my results
      > > with you in hopefully as comprehensive manner as yourself.
      > > > >
      > > > > Many thanks and best regards.
      > > > >
      > > > > Tim
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud"
      > > <boite.de.j-y@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I have not a good experience with coil having a vertical axis, but
      > > I can say some words about the ones with horizontal axis. 3 years ago I
      > > have tested 8 coil engines with the same bench. All of them made of
      > > copper and with the same core diameter for the coil. All with the same
      > > pipe diameter and coil diameter. The only difference was the number of
      > > loops (or turns). I measured the thrust at each both ends. The numbers
      > > of loops were respectively 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 6 and 7. Note that
      > > 2.5, 3.5…correspond to classic engines. 2, 3, 4… were only
      > > experimental engines. Such engines would be useless on a boat because
      > > the pipes were opposite.
      > > > > > What I learned from the tests is that the best practical engine is
      > > the one with 4.5 loops.
      > > > > > Since that time I have exchange many messages with Guus who is the
      > > best expert I know in coil engines. He helped me to progress. And today
      > > I know that the shape of the pipes (outside of the coil itself) that I
      > > used was not optimized. I still have these 8 engines. One day, when I
      > > have time I will improve the shape and test again…
      > > > > > What seemed evident is the fact that above a certain number of
      > > loops (4.5 or 5.5) the performance decreases.
      > > > > > I have added a photo album with some of Guus coil engines. Album
      > > title is Guus...
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer"
      > > <epikflyer@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Hi Slater.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Many thanks for the links. I will investigate. I am getting
      > > started with the materials for your diaphragm engine now. After more
      > > investigation I am going to make a gutter test rig as described in the
      > > group, to try out and compare different motors. I think a simple
      > > lightweight spring balance with a flag and a marker pen will do the job.
      > > I will have to visit the hardware shop this week to get some stuff to
      > > play with. I am preparing an aluminium beer can as I write this, in
      > > anticipation of my first putt putt boat motor. In your instructions it
      > > states a soft drinks can. I hope this wont cause me problems!
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks again and best regards.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Tim
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Slater Harrison
      > > <Sharrison@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Tim,
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I don't know much about the coil engines, but I do have some
      > > links to instructions as well as tips for finding the thin tubing on
      > > this page http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/boat/coil_boat.htm
      > > > > > > > Slater
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of epikflyer
      > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:59 AM
      > > > > > > > To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] New member. Advice on number of
      > > coils please.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Hello all.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I am new here and getting bits together to make my first put
      > > put engine. I intend to use the coil type to start with. Could somebody
      > > explain to me please, the effect of how many coils effects the
      > > performance of the motor. Does more coils give more power or vice versa?
      > > Also what effect does the internal diameter of the pipe have?
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Any explanation or pointing in the right direction would be
      > > greatly appreciated.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Many thanks and best regards.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Tim
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > ________________________________
      > > > > > > > This message, together with any attachments, may contain
      > > information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this
      > > message is not the intended recipient or the agent responsible for
      > > delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
      > > any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is
      > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
      > > notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the message,
      > > along with any attachments.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • frankmcneilll
      Hi Jean-Yves, Of course it would be OK! One of the wonderful thing about the varieties of simple steam engines generally lumped as pop-pop boats is that it is
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 2 1:13 AM
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        Hi Jean-Yves,

        Of course it would be OK! One of the wonderful thing about the varieties of simple steam engines generally lumped as pop-pop boats is that it is almost equally hard to make an engine that does not work at all, and an engine that works well. Without the research that you and Loïc have conducted it would be easier to make an engine that does not work and close to impossible to make one that works well.
        Back when Yahoo provided a lot less capacity for files than it does now Pete and I started a second pop-pop steamboats when the file section of the first one was about 96 percent full. The 96 percent dropped to a tenth of that after Yahoo provided more capacity, so we transferred files back to pop-pop steamboats number one and deleted pop-pop steamboats number two. Yahoo was not pleased and requested an explanation for why we did that. We will never know if Yahoo did that when one of our co-owners deleted this group, or what reason our co-owner provided, because he left the group after Pete managed to get the group restored from archived files. I don't think many of our members knew the group had been deleted and restored because most of them don't participate in discussions or add files, photos or links.

        Best wishes,
        Old Frank





        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud" <boite.de.j-y@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Hi Frank,
        >
        > OK to display my files on your forum. I have nothing to sell and nothing
        > to hide. But users are to be aware of the fact the content is what I
        > knew or thought at the dates which are on the documents. The last update
        > of each document is the one in my PC, and then it is the one on
        > Loïc's site…because I don't inform Loïc in real time
        > and then he takes time to implement the modifications. If I look at what
        > happened in the past years, there has been many improvements and
        > corrections. For instance, 4 years ago I thought (and I read on various
        > papers and sites) that some gas inside the engine was detrimental to its
        > performances. Since that time I have demonstrated that it is the
        > opposite.
        >
        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll"
        > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Jean-Yves,
        > >
        > > I have added the English translations of some of your pop-pop material
        > to a folder titled "Pop-pop - La page de Jean-Yves" for the benefit of
        > other members.
        > > Our member Jorge Hugo Cordero has video at http://tinyurl.com/moykf9
        > that confirms your theory about single pipes with closed ends.
        > > The "Achilles' Heel" of single pipe engines might be their inability
        > to purge air that comes out of solution and accumulates in those closed
        > ends. That might make the asymmetry of two pipe engines more of a virtue
        > than a fault. It also suggests a method for steering boats with two pipe
        > coiled or straight tube engines by using dampers to shift heat
        > application from one end to the other.
        > >
        > > Best wishes, Frank
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud"
        > boite.de.j-y@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi Frank,
        > > > Thank you for reminding old messages. There are so many...
        > > > I agree with you on the fact there is no need of several loops. To
        > > > demonstrate that a pop-pop engine is not always working symmetrical
        > I
        > > > built a very simple one with classic copper material. Look at page 2
        > on
        > > > the doc entitled "Pop-pop engine or pump" on www.eclecticspace.net
        > > > <http://www.eclecticspace.net> . This very simple engine worked.
        > > > However, I must comfess that its thrust was weak.
        > > > I have an even simpler theory: any pipe closed at the end which is
        > > > heated can work as a pop-pop engine. The simplest one is a strait
        > pipe.
        > > > This theory is easy to demonstrate with pipe ID 10 to 25mm. It is
        > more
        > > > difficult with small ID because the heating power window becomes
        > very
        > > > narrow. Too low power and the engine doesn't start. Too much power
        > and
        > > > it goes soon to burnout. On stationary plants with electrical
        > heating I
        > > > succeded several times to run during half an hour engines having an
        > ID
        > > > down to 4mm.
        > > >
        > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll"
        > > > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > There is a type of tubing that does not require coils.
        > > > > Go to message number 55 by Richard Jenkins about his adventures
        > with
        > > > pop-pop boats. There are pictures of his boat Popflea in a photos
        > > > brochure titled Popflea and Firefly. Later Richard found the series
        > of
        > > > articles in the British magazine Model Boats and posted a pdf file
        > > > titled "article_ModelBoats_4-96.pdf to the Files section.
        > > > > What might be a better way to install tubing is described in
        > message
        > > > number 498 by Vance Bass about the need for a really effective cool
        > > > zone. This could be a "sump pump" evaporator, running the tubes into
        > the
        > > > water and along the underside of the boat rather than out the rear
        > > > transom.
        > > > > It might also be done by arranging several square tubes to pass
        > over a
        > > > boat from side to side and turn down and back to enter the water and
        > > > propel the boat after the tubes were filled with water and heated to
        > > > generate steam. A sketch used as a temporary home page picture might
        > > > make this explanation easier to understand.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer" epikflyer@
        > > > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi jeanyves
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Thank you very much for your valuable and fascinating advice. I
        > will
        > > > take this into great consideration while building my motors. I have
        > seen
        > > > the works of Mr. Guus and the pop pop "klompern" are indeed
        > impressive.
        > > > I applaud your scientific approach to your experimentation, in the
        > > > evaluation of your motors and thank you for sharing the results. I
        > will
        > > > bear this in mind with my developments and of course, share my
        > results
        > > > with you in hopefully as comprehensive manner as yourself.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Many thanks and best regards.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Tim
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud"
        > > > <boite.de.j-y@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I have not a good experience with coil having a vertical axis,
        > but
        > > > I can say some words about the ones with horizontal axis. 3 years
        > ago I
        > > > have tested 8 coil engines with the same bench. All of them made of
        > > > copper and with the same core diameter for the coil. All with the
        > same
        > > > pipe diameter and coil diameter. The only difference was the number
        > of
        > > > loops (or turns). I measured the thrust at each both ends. The
        > numbers
        > > > of loops were respectively 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 6 and 7. Note
        > that
        > > > 2.5, 3.5…correspond to classic engines. 2, 3, 4… were only
        > > > experimental engines. Such engines would be useless on a boat
        > because
        > > > the pipes were opposite.
        > > > > > > What I learned from the tests is that the best practical
        > engine is
        > > > the one with 4.5 loops.
        > > > > > > Since that time I have exchange many messages with Guus who is
        > the
        > > > best expert I know in coil engines. He helped me to progress. And
        > today
        > > > I know that the shape of the pipes (outside of the coil itself) that
        > I
        > > > used was not optimized. I still have these 8 engines. One day, when
        > I
        > > > have time I will improve the shape and test again…
        > > > > > > What seemed evident is the fact that above a certain number of
        > > > loops (4.5 or 5.5) the performance decreases.
        > > > > > > I have added a photo album with some of Guus coil engines.
        > Album
        > > > title is Guus...
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer"
        > > > <epikflyer@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Hi Slater.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Many thanks for the links. I will investigate. I am getting
        > > > started with the materials for your diaphragm engine now. After more
        > > > investigation I am going to make a gutter test rig as described in
        > the
        > > > group, to try out and compare different motors. I think a simple
        > > > lightweight spring balance with a flag and a marker pen will do the
        > job.
        > > > I will have to visit the hardware shop this week to get some stuff
        > to
        > > > play with. I am preparing an aluminium beer can as I write this, in
        > > > anticipation of my first putt putt boat motor. In your instructions
        > it
        > > > states a soft drinks can. I hope this wont cause me problems!
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Thanks again and best regards.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Tim
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Slater Harrison
        > > > <Sharrison@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Tim,
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I don't know much about the coil engines, but I do have
        > some
        > > > links to instructions as well as tips for finding the thin tubing on
        > > > this page http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/boat/coil_boat.htm
        > > > > > > > > Slater
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
        > > > [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of epikflyer
        > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:59 AM
        > > > > > > > > To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
        > > > > > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] New member. Advice on number
        > of
        > > > coils please.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Hello all.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > I am new here and getting bits together to make my first
        > put
        > > > put engine. I intend to use the coil type to start with. Could
        > somebody
        > > > explain to me please, the effect of how many coils effects the
        > > > performance of the motor. Does more coils give more power or vice
        > versa?
        > > > Also what effect does the internal diameter of the pipe have?
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Any explanation or pointing in the right direction would
        > be
        > > > greatly appreciated.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Many thanks and best regards.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Tim
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > ________________________________
        > > > > > > > > This message, together with any attachments, may contain
        > > > information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of
        > this
        > > > message is not the intended recipient or the agent responsible for
        > > > delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
        > that
        > > > any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message
        > is
        > > > strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
        > please
        > > > notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete the
        > message,
        > > > along with any attachments.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • epikflyer
        Hi Greg. Thank you for sharing your experiences. The sardine can looks great. I love the colours of metal when it has been heated. Great pictures. Today in my
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 2 11:22 AM
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          Hi Greg.

          Thank you for sharing your experiences. The sardine can looks great. I love the colours of metal when it has been heated. Great pictures. Today in my lunch break I made a die and former from a drawing on this group, for making motors and cut, annealed and flattened some copper pipe to give it a go. It went well so when I have the other bits I will get going on a diaphragm and coil motor. I found some 4 mm pipe and am getting impatient, so I might try that anyway just for the fun of it. I also found some nice brass shim stock that may find a home in my motors. Also I found on Ebay some one had 3 putt putt motors for sale. I got my wife to put in a bid and we won them! Life is good! I will need to think of some nice hull design to try them in. So much to do. I will put some pictures in the album when I have completed them.

          Best regards.

          Tim


          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Greg <kragmeister@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Tim,
          >
          > epikflyer wrote:
          >
          > >I am new here and getting bits together to make my first put put engine. I intend to use the coil type to start with. Could somebody explain to me please, the effect of how many coils effects the performance of the motor. Does more coils give more power or vice versa? Also what effect does the internal diameter of the pipe have
          > >
          > I just built my first coil type boat this past week using a sardine can
          > for the hull and brass tubing for the engine. You can see pictures in
          > the photos section of the group website under "Sardine Can".
          >
          > I used 5 coils and I think that for brass tubing this is too many as
          > there is a larger surface to heat and brass is not as good of a heat
          > conductor as copper. I was using Esbit camping stove fuel for the
          > fire. It performed OK in the kitchen sink, however I ran into problems
          > when I put it in a swimming pool. The main thing is that there was
          > insufficient power to overcome the waves in the pool. The other problem
          > was that my son swamped it a couple of times putting out the fire <hah>.
          >
          > Another mistake I may have made was in the tube arrangement at the
          > stern. The sardine can was aluminum so I could not solder the brass
          > tubes to it; I had to use epoxy which is an insulator. Because the
          > tubes were insulated from the hull they would not cool very quickly. I
          > also had the tubes exit at the stern so only the very ends were in the
          > water; again preventing quick cooling.
          >
          > I'm going to give it another go with another sardine or a larger herring
          > can. I'm still going to use brass tube as that is what I have on hand
          > but I am going to only use 2 coils with the tubes exiting through the
          > bottom and running to the rear of the boat so that they are surrounded
          > by water and can cool quickly which should cause a better vacuum action
          > to draw water in after the steam is expelled. At least that is my theory!
          >
          > Later,
          > Greg in PA
          >
        • epikflyer
          Hi Jean-Yves. May I say the information on your website is incredible. The information is such great inspiration for experimentation. Although I do not
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 2 11:59 AM
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            Hi Jean-Yves.

            May I say the information on your website is incredible. The information is such great inspiration for experimentation. Although I do not understand a lot of the mathematics described, I will find it equally an enjoyable challenge trying to do so, as making my putt putt motors. Thank you for sharing the information which will no doubt be a most valuable resource in my endeavors.

            Best regards.

            Tim
          • zoomkat
            ... You can get boat engines at the below site: http://www.spacetin.com/navigation_bars/Boats.html
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 2 9:31 PM
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              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer" <epikflyer@...> wrote:

              > Also I found on Ebay some one had 3 putt putt motors for sale. I got my wife to put in a bid and we won them! Life is good! I will need to think of some nice hull design to try them in.

              You can get boat engines at the below site:

              http://www.spacetin.com/navigation_bars/Boats.html
            • jeanyves_renaud
              Hi Tim and Zoomkat, 1°) Be careful when you bid on Ebay to get pop-pop boats. Many of them are sold at prices that are very high. Such prices could be
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 2 11:42 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Tim and Zoomkat,
                1°) Be careful when you bid on Ebay to get pop-pop boats. Many of them are sold at prices that are very high. Such prices could be justified for collectors, not for new stuff.
                Before bidding on Ebay, check the normal market prices on shops such as the one indicated (As far as I have seen, in this shop they have decent prices.)
                If you want to buy quantities, you also have to know that the prices are very cheap in the countries where most of these boats are built (India, Pakistan…). For instance, in India my son bought one of the pop-pop boats proposed at $5 on www.spacetin... (commonly sold €7 in Europe, i.e. $10.6). He got it for 20 cents of €uro without bargaining (!).
                2°) It is more fun to build such things by yourself, and no need of sophisticated and expansive tools or materials to start. See for example Slater's boats at www.sciencetoymaker.org

                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer" <epikflyer@> wrote:
                >
                > > Also I found on Ebay some one had 3 putt putt motors for sale. I got my wife to put in a bid and we won them! Life is good! I will need to think of some nice hull design to try them in.
                >
                > You can get boat engines at the below site:
                >
                > http://www.spacetin.com/navigation_bars/Boats.html
                >
              • frankmcneilll
                Hi Tim, Zoomkat and Jean-Yves, We have a link to GIRI & GIRI EXPORTS, owned by a pop-pop steamboats member in India. I tried to establish email correspondence
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 3 3:04 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Tim, Zoomkat and Jean-Yves,

                  We have a link to GIRI & GIRI EXPORTS, owned by a pop-pop steamboats member in India. I tried to establish email correspondence with him a while back to suggest a "merger" between his wood and tin departments for the production of pop-pop boats with wooden hulls- no reply, but I didn't really expect to get one. Does anybody here do Hindi?

                  Old Frank

                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud" <boite.de.j-y@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Tim and Zoomkat,
                  > 1°) Be careful when you bid on Ebay to get pop-pop boats. Many of them are sold at prices that are very high. Such prices could be justified for collectors, not for new stuff.
                  > Before bidding on Ebay, check the normal market prices on shops such as the one indicated (As far as I have seen, in this shop they have decent prices.)
                  > If you want to buy quantities, you also have to know that the prices are very cheap in the countries where most of these boats are built (India, Pakistan…). For instance, in India my son bought one of the pop-pop boats proposed at $5 on www.spacetin... (commonly sold €7 in Europe, i.e. $10.6). He got it for 20 cents of €uro without bargaining (!).
                  > 2°) It is more fun to build such things by yourself, and no need of sophisticated and expansive tools or materials to start. See for example Slater's boats at www.sciencetoymaker.org
                  >
                  > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "zoomkat" <Zoomkat@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer" <epikflyer@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Also I found on Ebay some one had 3 putt putt motors for sale. I got my wife to put in a bid and we won them! Life is good! I will need to think of some nice hull design to try them in.
                  > >
                  > > You can get boat engines at the below site:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.spacetin.com/navigation_bars/Boats.html
                  > >
                  >
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