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Re: Big engines revisited

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  • zoomkat
    ... The problems with these engines is they are not designed properly (mho) to use steam as a power conversion medium. A large pop pop engine needs to operate
    Message 1 of 32 , Aug 27, 2009
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      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud" <boite.de.j-y@...> wrote:
      >
      > Big pop-pop engines exist. I met some.
      > The biggest one I know was built by Eljoh and Jorn, 2 Dutch students. I met Eljoh and Jorn in June 2008. This engine had a 2" pipe. You can see it on www.eclecticspace.net (once again it is not my site and there is nothing commercial). Click on "pop-pop" and then on the British flag and then on "The biggest pop-pop engines of the world??".
      > And if you want to see big engines in operation, go to www.eclecticspace.net/doc . There are videos of some tests ran by Loïc and I. We had some difficulties with the 40mm engine, but the 23.5mm one worked almost endlessly. But I must confess that the thrust is not big and the jet speed is not fast.

      The problems with these engines is they are not designed properly (mho) to use steam as a power conversion medium. A large pop pop engine needs to operate very similar to a conventional steam engine. Steam needs to be quickly supplied at a high pressure to a closed chamber then isolated (via a valve from a conventional boiler or the violent steam "flash" in a pop pop engine). Then the high pressure steam in the chamber is allowed to act against a physical component (a piston or water in open ended tubes) in an expansion process where the pressure energy is transfered to mechanical energy in the piston or water movement. At the end of this process the system conditions are returned to the origional state and repeated. In these big engines no really useable energy is captured in the steam, so none is transfered to the water in the tubes. Under some conditions these large engines might actually somewhat operate in "reverse". Just some of what I've observed over the years. I went to the DollarTree store (everything is just $1) and got two round pie pans to study as a possible test flash boiler.
    • zoomkat
      Without Dean Still providing some details on the engine, it is still somewhat of a rumor as to its operation. I do think the pancake flash boiler is what will
      Message 32 of 32 , Sep 7, 2009
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        Without Dean Still providing some details on the engine, it is still somewhat of a rumor as to its operation. I do think the pancake flash boiler is what will be needed to make a larger engine. Making a duplicate drum lid engine will require a little more work and tools than the typical toy type engine (mainly drilling larger holes in the lid and welding the boiler components together). I need to see if there is a local steel drum supplier that might have drum lids for sale. I put a couple of pix of a can lid engine I made years ago in my file folder. I made it using JB Weld epoxy so the amount of heat I could apply was limited before I started smelling the hot epoxy. I've got my pie pans and need to see if the edges will solder instead of sealing and bolting. I also found a 150 watt soldering iron so I need to see if I can clean the can lid edges so they will solder.

        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73" <darylcanada73@...> wrote:
        >
        > An update on "Trying to track down the 16' 3 MPH canoe."
        >
        > 1. As I understand it, Nick Carter saw a big pop pop engine and heard a story to go with it that named Dean Still as the builder. This all started with a forum post on another site in 1998.
        >
        > 2. Dean Still provided no further information, did not confirm the information from Nick and referred my to Dr. Larry Winiarski.
        >
        > 3. Dr. Winiarski added nothing to solve the mystery.
        >
        > My guess is: Someone told Nick about the Payne experiments. Someone (Dean Still) showed Nick a big engine and it all got really confusing from there.
        >
        > If any of you live in or near Cottage Grove, Oregon you could add to the confusion by following up on this.
        >
        > Follow up reply from Nick Carter
        >
        > "Hi Daryl,
        > Like I said, that's all I knew. Dean is an aquaintance from the local
        > craft market that my wife and I sell at. He no longer sells there and I
        > haven't seen him in 10 years. He used to sell toy pop-pop boats so when
        > I did the model engine show I convinced him to bring some of his stuff
        > to show the crowd. The bit pop pop engine is one of the things he brought.
        >
        > Nick"
        >
        > Follow up reply from Dr. Larry Winiarski....
        >
        >
        > "Daryl,
        > I went to see Peter Payne( gosh !! it was more than 30 years ago).
        > True,He did not want to work more on the putt,putt without government support .!
        > However, II felt he did have some good insights about what he thought was important in these devices.two things he did that I would like to do but never found the time is:
        > He had a putt putt water pump that pumped to the top of a two story bulding (i would like to try this with my rocket stove for helping people in developing countries)
        > He made a SINGLE tube putt putt that pushed a man carrying row boat.
        > These were research devices that I think were electrically heated. but i would like to use my rocket stove principles to fire them with wood
        > God Bless
        >
        > Larry
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