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Re: pop-pop paddle wheel

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  • Richard Mundy
    Hi Pete, Thanks for this, I was thinking about this today (when I should have been thinking of other things) what I came up with is a wet well (hole) in the
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 2, 2009
      Hi Pete,

      Thanks for this, I was thinking about this today (when I should have
      been thinking of other things) what I came up with is a wet well
      (hole) in the middle of the model in which is sat a circular metal
      can with a vertical, central spindle. A pop-pop engine or two is set
      up to discharge tangentially into the can and so set the water in the
      can spinning. The drive is from a vaned disc mounted on the centre
      spindle. The reason for the wet well is cooling. Pop pop and fluid
      drive all in one.

      I must add this to my ever lengthening list of pop-pop projects
      unless of course someone gives me a reason why it won't work.

      I am very game to help with the Claremont project & by then should
      know a lot more and have honed my hard soldering skills. At the
      moment I am looking into electro etching brass components. There are
      always distractions !

      Dick


      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
      wrote:
      >
      >
      > Hi Dick,
      >
      >
      >
      > Fulton had steering and other problems on his original boat. The
      1807
      > version was somewhere between 133ft - 142ft long and had a beam of
      13ft.
      > It was steered by rudder & tiller. The boat was powered by a 20 hp
      > vertical, rotary, condensing Boulton & Watt engine. The boiler was
      > approximately 20ft long with an 8ft by 7ft cross-section. It was
      > fabricated from copper plate. It is thought that Paul Revere
      provided
      > the copper plate to the company that fabricated the boiler for
      Fulton.
      >
      >
      >
      > In the first season of service they found the boat to be very
      unstable
      > and extremely difficult to steer. In addition the exposed
      paddlewheels
      > became "targets" for the Captains of the sailing ships on the river.
      >
      >
      >
      > During the winter of 1807-08 Fulton enlarged the boat to
      approximately
      > 150ft and an 18ft beam. He added a ship's wheel and pulleys for
      > steering, shroud over the paddlewheels for protection and to
      minimize
      > spraying the passengers. Addition sleeping berths, a galley,
      women's and
      > men's lounges were also added. He called the 1808 version of his
      boat
      > "The North River of Clermont". In history we know it as the
      CLERMONT.
      >
      > The North River was the early name the Hudson River and Clermont
      was the
      > estate of Robert Livingston and the boat's home port.
      >
      >
      >
      > So much for the brief history lesson..
      >
      >
      >
      > Are you game to work on a paddlewheel scheme in anticipation of
      putting
      > a Pop-Pop Clermont together? For a reference point a 16 inch boat
      would
      > have paddlewheels of approximateely 1.6 inches in diameter. The easy
      > math is that the North River was 150ft long with paddlewheels 15ft
      in
      > diameter or a ratio of 10:1.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Pete
      >
      > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
      > <coracles18@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Pete,
      > >
      > > We have an old (1947) side wheeler working around here called the
      > > Waverly. The hull is very long and narrow. The wheels are on a
      > > shaft with a horizontal steam engine in the middle. Talking to one
      > > of the Harwich pilots, it is a nightmare. It accelerates very fast
      > > and stops fast, but has no steerage way until moving quite
      quickly.
      > > Turning circle is huge. All this makes docking difficuilt
      especially
      > > in a tide or high wind. They have thought of fitting a bow
      thruster
      > > or even a bow rudder, but there is a reluctance to mess about
      with a
      > > ship this old. Will probably stay with a skipper with nerves of
      steel!
      > >
      > > http://www.waverleyexcursions.co.uk/
      > >
      > > I do appreciate the lure of the difficuilt - why else am I messing
      > > around with pop-pops instead of something more efficient,
      > > conventional and off the shelf.
      > >
      > > Dick
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." georgeyyy@
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi Dick...
      > > >
      > > > For the challenge of it all!
      > > >
      > > > This subject evolved out of my interest in Pop-Pops and Robert
      > > Fulton's
      > > > North River of CLERMONT. A couple of years ago I began
      developing a
      > > > CLERMONT pop-pop. My original design was to create a copper and
      > > brass
      > > > pop-pop approximately 16 inches in length. I don't have any
      kind of
      > > a
      > > > woodworking or metal working shop so the design had to be
      relatively
      > > > simple. My design is based on a CAD model that I already had on
      my
      > > PC. I
      > > > began madifying that design to accommodate my pop-pop version.
      The
      > > hull
      > > > design is completed to the point where I needed to come up with
      an
      > > > engine. Conceptually I was goint to use the accepted
      inlet/outlet
      > > > pop-pop engine. The sidewheeler paddles would be free wheeling.
      > > >
      > > > With the recent discussions of spinning pop-pop engines Frank
      > > renewed
      > > > some thoughts on the Fulton sidewheeler that I am designing.
      > > Although
      > > > it's presently on a back burner it's still my intent to build
      as a
      > > > pop-pop. What the final configuration will be I'm not sure. I do
      > > know
      > > > that it will be a model based on the CLERMONT with some "poetic
      > > > liberties" taken. It will be fabricated in copper and brass for
      > > personal
      > > > aesthetic appeal. I would like to use the finished boat as a
      display
      > > > model.
      > > >
      > > > I created a digital model of a coiled tube engine and a barrel
      > > design
      > > > based on Dan Noyes's ideas. Personally I like the barrel design
      as
      > > it
      > > > lends to the original Fulton boat design. I see three options
      for
      > > > propelling the boat:
      > > >
      > > > * the standard inlet/outlet pop-pop design * freewheeling
      > > > paddlewheels withe the pop-pop engine exhaust directed towards
      the
      > > > buckets on the paddlewheel. That might "forde" the paddles to
      turn
      > > and
      > > > move the boat forward * integrate pop-pop engine exhausts into
      > > the
      > > > paddlewheels. they would spin much in the same manner as the
      > > spinning
      > > > lawn sprinkler.
      > > >
      > > > I hope that this gives you some ideas as to develop a pop-pop
      > > engine for
      > > > use on a sidewheel steamboat. I'm looking to free up some more
      > > design
      > > > time in the Sept-Oct time frame. I'm commited to the work on the
      > > > animated Boulton and Watt steam engine used by Fulton. I'm
      working
      > > with
      > > > the 6 volunteers, the Clermont Historic Site and State of New
      York.
      > > The
      > > > volunteers are building the 1/12 scale model. NY State is
      building
      > > the
      > > > display case and the Clermont Site is providing the space. I'm
      kind
      > > of
      > > > the clerk of the works and doing a lot of the design work.
      working
      > > up to
      > > > 50 hours per week in combination with the volunteering just
      dosen't
      > > give
      > > > me the option of working on the Clermont pop-pop and to justice.
      > > Thus
      > > > the back burner status.
      > > >
      > > > RE: Your Thames sternwheeler;
      > > >
      > > > We have a sidewheeler here on the Hudson (North River) that is
      > > actually
      > > > propelled by the two paddlewheels. The paddlewheels are driven
      by
      > > > hydraulic motors. Each wheel can act independently of each
      other.
      > > They
      > > > can be used to help steer the boat. In fact, they fan have one
      wheel
      > > > going forward the other going in reverse. This configuration
      allows
      > > the
      > > > bost to turn 180° on the theoretical center of the paddle
      wheels'
      > > > axis.
      > > >
      > > > Note: I have created a new photo folder called Clermont Pop-
      Pop. It
      > > now
      > > > contains pix of some of my ideas. Feel free to add any photos
      > > directly
      > > > related to a Clermont pop-pop model. THANKS
      > > >
      > > > regards,
      > > >
      > > > Pete
      > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
      > > > <coracles18@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi all,
      > > > >
      > > > > why power the paddle wheel?
      > > > > There is a tourist boat operating on the Thames. This looks
      like a
      > > > > Missisippi river boat. It is powered by propeller, the stern
      wheel
      > > > just
      > > > > freewheels in the water quite realistically. When the boat
      stops,
      > > so
      > > > > does the wheel.
      > > > >
      > > > > Dick
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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