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Re: Pop-Pop Steamboats membership

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  • Richard Mundy
    I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because it is no longer relevant. An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England. It is known
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 5, 2009
      I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because
      it is no longer relevant.
      An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
      It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation as to how
      they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly how were
      the pyramids or stonehenge built?
      Dick
    • Richard Mundy
      I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of the garden shed (sorry to go on) Dick ... how ... were
      Message 2 of 28 , Jan 5, 2009
        I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of the
        garden shed
        (sorry to go on)
        Dick




        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
        <coracles18@...> wrote:
        >
        > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because
        > it is no longer relevant.
        > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
        > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation as to
        how
        > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly how
        were
        > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
        > Dick
        >
      • Pete B.
        Dick, I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate. I believe that
        Message 3 of 28 , Jan 5, 2009

          Dick,

          I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate. I believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as a 4 or 5 year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were in the aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I might have been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the Radarange and how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't thought of replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young mind had tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or able to convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of those inovators.

          On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the Us from France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show a hand pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.

          http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html 

          For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a patent on a boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.

          http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-inventor/ 

          Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now have Buehler Turbocraft boats

          http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465

          and the jet skis. That's it...

          Pete

           

          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy" <coracles18@...> wrote:
          >
          > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of the
          > garden shed
          > (sorry to go on)
          > Dick
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
          > coracles18@ wrote:
          > >
          > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because
          > > it is no longer relevant.
          > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
          > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation as to
          > how
          > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly how
          > were
          > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
          > > Dick
          > >
          >

        • Richard Mundy
          Hi Pete, how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything about it! A couple
          Message 4 of 28 , Jan 7, 2009
            Hi Pete,
            how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
            thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
            about it!
            A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs that
            pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but you
            saw it here first :)
            I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine. Because
            of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
            The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if you
            power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that relevant!

            Dick


            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
            wrote:
            >
            >
            > Dick,
            >
            > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a
            > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate.
            I
            > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as a 4
            or 5
            > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were in
            the
            > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I might
            have
            > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the Radarange
            and
            > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't thought of
            > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young mind
            had
            > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or able
            to
            > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of those
            > inovators.
            >
            > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the Us
            from
            > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show a
            hand
            > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
            >
            > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
            > <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
            >
            > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a patent on
            a
            > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
            >
            > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-inventor/
            > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
            inventor/>
            >
            > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now have
            > Buehler Turbocraft boats
            >
            > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
            > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
            >
            > and the jet skis. That's it...
            >
            > Pete
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
            > <coracles18@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of
            the
            > > garden shed
            > > (sorry to go on)
            > > Dick
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
            > > coracles18@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten
            > because
            > > > it is no longer relevant.
            > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
            > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation
            as to
            > > how
            > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly
            how
            > > were
            > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
            > > > Dick
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Frank McNeill
            Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a better way to let dogs pull you around.
            Message 5 of 28 , Jan 7, 2009
              Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a
              better way to let dogs pull you around.

              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
              <coracles18@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Pete,
              > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
              > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
              > about it!
              > A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs that
              > pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but you
              > saw it here first :)
              > I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine. Because
              > of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
              > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if you
              > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that relevant!
              >
              > Dick
              >
              >
              > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Dick,
              > >
              > > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a
              > > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate.
              > I
              > > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as a 4
              > or 5
              > > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were in
              > the
              > > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I might
              > have
              > > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the Radarange
              > and
              > > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't thought of
              > > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young mind
              > had
              > > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or able
              > to
              > > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of those
              > > inovators.
              > >
              > > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the Us
              > from
              > > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show a
              > hand
              > > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
              > >
              > > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
              > > <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
              > >
              > > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a patent on
              > a
              > > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
              > >
              > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-inventor/
              > > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
              > inventor/>
              > >
              > > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now have
              > > Buehler Turbocraft boats
              > >
              > > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
              > > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
              > >
              > > and the jet skis. That's it...
              > >
              > > Pete
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
              > > <coracles18@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of
              > the
              > > > garden shed
              > > > (sorry to go on)
              > > > Dick
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
              > > > coracles18@ wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten
              > > because
              > > > > it is no longer relevant.
              > > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
              > > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation
              > as to
              > > > how
              > > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly
              > how
              > > > were
              > > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
              > > > > Dick
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Donald Qualls
              ... I had the idea for a lifetime electronic watch in 1977. Electronic watches were brand new then, it took Casio fifteen years to actually start selling a
              Message 6 of 28 , Jan 8, 2009
                Richard Mundy wrote:
                > Hi Pete,
                > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                > about it!

                I had the idea for a lifetime electronic watch in 1977. Electronic
                watches were brand new then, it took Casio fifteen years to actually
                start selling a watch like I envisioned, in which an "automatic" or
                self-winding mechanical movement generates the tiny amount of
                electricity needed to run the electronic watch. I also envisioned the
                laptop computer with fold-down screen about that same time frame. I'd
                have "invented" either one in a heartbeat, if I'd had a few thousand
                (late 1970s) dollars to toss around...

                > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if you
                > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that relevant!

                Efficiency is *more* important with solar power, because the power
                density of a given collector is so low. The low tech aspect, however,
                applies even more strongly to a Stirling engine (leftover food cans and
                a rubber balloon?), which will give better efficiency than a Newcomen
                steam engine and do it on a much lower working temperature (a reasonably
                well designed Stirling engine needn't get anywhere near the boiling
                point of water).

                --
                If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you want,
                it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.

                Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

                Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
                and don't expect them to be perfect.
              • Richard Mundy
                Hi Frank, not seen anything like this in the UK, apparently its illegal - most things are. http://www.messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm Nearest thing is
                Message 7 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
                  Hi Frank,
                  not seen anything like this in the UK, apparently its illegal - most
                  things are.

                  http://www.messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm

                  Nearest thing is Husky racing, this is on private land and
                  the 'sleds' have wheels in summer!

                  Dick


                  --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
                  <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a
                  > better way to let dogs pull you around.
                  >
                  > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                  > <coracles18@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Pete,
                  > > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                  > > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                  > > about it!
                  > > A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs
                  that
                  > > pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but
                  you
                  > > saw it here first :)
                  > > I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine.
                  Because
                  > > of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
                  > > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if
                  you
                  > > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that
                  relevant!
                  > >
                  > > Dick
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Dick,
                  > > >
                  > > > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange
                  at a
                  > > > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper
                  plate.
                  > > I
                  > > > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as
                  a 4
                  > > or 5
                  > > > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were
                  in
                  > > the
                  > > > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I
                  might
                  > > have
                  > > > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the
                  Radarange
                  > > and
                  > > > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't
                  thought of
                  > > > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young
                  mind
                  > > had
                  > > > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or
                  able
                  > > to
                  > > > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of
                  those
                  > > > inovators.
                  > > >
                  > > > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the
                  Us
                  > > from
                  > > > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show
                  a
                  > > hand
                  > > > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
                  > > >
                  > > > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
                  > > > <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
                  > > >
                  > > > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a
                  patent on
                  > > a
                  > > > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
                  > > >
                  > > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                  inventor/
                  > > > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                  > > inventor/>
                  > > >
                  > > > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now
                  have
                  > > > Buehler Turbocraft boats
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
                  > > > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
                  > > >
                  > > > and the jet skis. That's it...
                  > > >
                  > > > Pete
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                  > > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out
                  of
                  > > the
                  > > > > garden shed
                  > > > > (sorry to go on)
                  > > > > Dick
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                  > > > > coracles18@ wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been
                  forgotten
                  > > > because
                  > > > > > it is no longer relevant.
                  > > > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
                  > > > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is
                  speculation
                  > > as to
                  > > > > how
                  > > > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge.
                  Similarly
                  > > how
                  > > > > were
                  > > > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
                  > > > > > Dick
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Richard Mundy
                  Hi Donald, I take your point about efficiency and solar power, I was thinking of the sun as unlimited power, which it is, but as you imply the density of that
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
                    Hi Donald,

                    I take your point about efficiency and solar power, I was thinking of
                    the sun as unlimited power, which it is, but as you imply the density
                    of that power when it reaches earth is fairly low.
                    I also agree about the Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                    development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen. I also have to
                    think of my limited workshop and budget!

                    Dick





                    --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Donald Qualls
                    <silent1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Richard Mundy wrote:
                    > > Hi Pete,
                    > > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                    > > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                    > > about it!
                    >
                    > I had the idea for a lifetime electronic watch in 1977. Electronic
                    > watches were brand new then, it took Casio fifteen years to
                    actually
                    > start selling a watch like I envisioned, in which an "automatic" or
                    > self-winding mechanical movement generates the tiny amount of
                    > electricity needed to run the electronic watch. I also envisioned
                    the
                    > laptop computer with fold-down screen about that same time frame.
                    I'd
                    > have "invented" either one in a heartbeat, if I'd had a few
                    thousand
                    > (late 1970s) dollars to toss around...
                    >
                    > > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if
                    you
                    > > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that
                    relevant!
                    >
                    > Efficiency is *more* important with solar power, because the power
                    > density of a given collector is so low. The low tech aspect,
                    however,
                    > applies even more strongly to a Stirling engine (leftover food cans
                    and
                    > a rubber balloon?), which will give better efficiency than a
                    Newcomen
                    > steam engine and do it on a much lower working temperature (a
                    reasonably
                    > well designed Stirling engine needn't get anywhere near the boiling
                    > point of water).
                    >
                    > --
                    > If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you
                    want,
                    > it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.
                    >
                    > Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
                    http://silent1.home.netcom.com
                    >
                    > Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
                    > and don't expect them to be perfect.
                    >
                  • Pete B.
                    Hi Dick, Your messybeast link reminded me of the year (1965) that I was in Argentia, Nfld. I was a Navy Seabee stationed at the NAVFAC site. It was like
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
                      Hi Dick,

                      Your "messybeast" link reminded me of the year (1965) that I was in
                      Argentia, Nfld. I was a Navy Seabee stationed at the NAVFAC site. It
                      was like stepping back 100 years in time. I can recall seeing farmers
                      with their 2 wheeled milk carts being pulled down the gravel road in
                      Placentia by Newfoundland dogs. The Newfies were like a coal black
                      St. Bernard. I also remember Fish Mongers on the street corner in St
                      Johns with their rubber boot and apron. Great memories!

                      Pete


                      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                      <coracles18@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Frank,
                      > not seen anything like this in the UK, apparently its illegal -
                      most
                      > things are.
                      >
                      > http://www.messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm
                      >
                      > Nearest thing is Husky racing, this is on private land and
                      > the 'sleds' have wheels in summer!
                      >
                      > Dick
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
                      > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a
                      > > better way to let dogs pull you around.
                      > >
                      > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                      > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Pete,
                      > > > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think,
                      I
                      > > > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing
                      anything
                      > > > about it!
                      > > > A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs
                      > that
                      > > > pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but
                      > you
                      > > > saw it here first :)
                      > > > I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine.
                      > Because
                      > > > of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
                      > > > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if
                      > you
                      > > > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that
                      > relevant!
                      > > >
                      > > > Dick
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B."
                      <georgeyyy@>
                      > > > wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Dick,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon
                      Radarange
                      > at a
                      > > > > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper
                      > plate.
                      > > > I
                      > > > > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show
                      as
                      > a 4
                      > > > or 5
                      > > > > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They
                      were
                      > in
                      > > > the
                      > > > > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I
                      > might
                      > > > have
                      > > > > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the
                      > Radarange
                      > > > and
                      > > > > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't
                      > thought of
                      > > > > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young
                      > mind
                      > > > had
                      > > > > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older
                      or
                      > able
                      > > > to
                      > > > > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of
                      > those
                      > > > > inovators.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the
                      > Us
                      > > > from
                      > > > > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches
                      show
                      > a
                      > > > hand
                      > > > > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
                      > > > >
                      <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a
                      > patent on
                      > > > a
                      > > > > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                      > inventor/
                      > > > > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                      > > > inventor/>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We
                      now
                      > have
                      > > > > Buehler Turbocraft boats
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
                      > > > > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
                      > > > >
                      > > > > and the jet skis. That's it...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Pete
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                      > > > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got
                      out
                      > of
                      > > > the
                      > > > > > garden shed
                      > > > > > (sorry to go on)
                      > > > > > Dick
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                      > > > > > coracles18@ wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been
                      > forgotten
                      > > > > because
                      > > > > > > it is no longer relevant.
                      > > > > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
                      > > > > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is
                      > speculation
                      > > > as to
                      > > > > > how
                      > > > > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge.
                      > Similarly
                      > > > how
                      > > > > > were
                      > > > > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
                      > > > > > > Dick
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • David Halfpenny
                      ... From: Richard Mundy Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM ... The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development: - reduction
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
                        --------------------------------------------------
                        From: "Richard Mundy" <coracles18@...>
                        Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM

                        > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                        > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.

                        The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                        - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings, clearances
                        masses etc
                        - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than atmospheric
                        air (like compressed air or other gases)

                        The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit volume since
                        it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as soon as
                        the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in messing
                        around with the losses.

                        Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen engine
                        would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.

                        David 1/2d
                      • Pete B.
                        Here s a link to the Little Engine Group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 10, 2009

                          Here's a link to the Little Engine Group.

                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520

                          Perhap you will find some additional ideas for projects or a design of your own.

                          Pete


                          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny" <dh1@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------
                          > From: "Richard Mundy" coracles18@...
                          > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM
                          >
                          > > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                          > > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.
                          >
                          > The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                          > - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings, clearances
                          > masses etc
                          > - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than atmospheric
                          > air (like compressed air or other gases)
                          >
                          > The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit volume since
                          > it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as soon as
                          > the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in messing
                          > around with the losses.
                          >
                          > Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen engine
                          > would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.
                          >
                          > David 1/2d
                          >

                        • Richard Mundy
                          Hi David, I am still a bit new at this. I have played around with pop pops some time ago but never got into the theory until now and there is a long way to go,
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 12, 2009
                            Hi David,
                            I am still a bit new at this. I have played around with pop pops some
                            time ago but never got into the theory until now and there is a long
                            way to go, its a long time since I did physics! The attraction of the
                            pop pop is its utter simplicity, and the Newcomen does not need high
                            pressure steam.
                            I doubt either engine will ever change the world but it looks like
                            fun trying.
                            Dick

                            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny"
                            <dh1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------
                            > From: "Richard Mundy" <coracles18@...>
                            > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM
                            >
                            > > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                            > > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.
                            >
                            > The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                            > - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings,
                            clearances
                            > masses etc
                            > - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than
                            atmospheric
                            > air (like compressed air or other gases)
                            >
                            > The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit volume
                            since
                            > it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as
                            soon as
                            > the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in
                            messing
                            > around with the losses.
                            >
                            > Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen
                            engine
                            > would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.
                            >
                            > David 1/2d
                            >
                          • Richard Mundy
                            Hi Pete, thanks for this link, I followed it up and joined. This will be incredibly useful from the engineering side. The area of experiment is narrowing down
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 12, 2009
                              Hi Pete,
                              thanks for this link, I followed it up and joined.
                              This will be incredibly useful from the engineering side. The area of
                              experiment is narrowing down to the pop pop and the Newcomen.
                              I haven't started cutting metal yet, but I intend starting with some
                              established pop pop designs.
                              Glad you liked the dog cart page.
                              Dick

                              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Here's a link to the Little Engine Group.
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520
                              > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520>
                              >
                              > Perhap you will find some additional ideas for projects or a design
                              of
                              > your own.
                              >
                              > Pete
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny" <dh1@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------------------------------
                              > > From: "Richard Mundy" coracles18@
                              > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM
                              > >
                              > > > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                              > > > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.
                              > >
                              > > The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                              > > - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings,
                              clearances
                              > > masses etc
                              > > - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than
                              > atmospheric
                              > > air (like compressed air or other gases)
                              > >
                              > > The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit
                              volume
                              > since
                              > > it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as
                              soon
                              > as
                              > > the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in
                              messing
                              > > around with the losses.
                              > >
                              > > Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen
                              engine
                              > > would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.
                              > >
                              > > David 1/2d
                              > >
                              >
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