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Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Re: Pop-Pop Steamboats membership

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  • wdsmith
    Hoo BOY!!!! You are treading dangerously close to one of my big cussbuttons!! I wonder how many inventions are swept aside because they showed no immediate
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 4, 2009
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      Hoo BOY!!!!
      You are treading dangerously close to one of my big cussbuttons!!
      " I wonder how many inventions are swept aside because they showed no immediate
      promise at the time and something better turned up."

      I am stunned so few realize (or realize and dismiss) that technology evolved via the technology of the day.
      So, realizing this, a few things should be obvious:

      1.  "Tried it long ago and it didn't work," is not necessarily a valid thought.
           One or two critical developments and technological evolution could have took a different direction.
      2.  Automatic dismissal based on 100 year old (anymore it may be closer to 100 days old) considerations is not a good idea.

      Of course all generalities are false, including this one.  It is probably OK to skip over the latest perpetual motion machine....
      bit, personally, I stil look close for any new ideas it may spark.  ;o)




      Richard Mundy wrote:

      Hi Pete,
      thanks for the link. Technology hurtles along so fast I wonder how
      many inventions are swept aside because they showed no immediate
      promise at the time and something better turned up. I am hugely
      interested in experimental archeology. Recreating something like the
      Rumsey boat is not only interesting but inspirational.
      Dick


    • Richard Mundy
      I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because it is no longer relevant. An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England. It is known
      Message 2 of 28 , Jan 5, 2009
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        I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because
        it is no longer relevant.
        An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
        It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation as to how
        they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly how were
        the pyramids or stonehenge built?
        Dick
      • Richard Mundy
        I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of the garden shed (sorry to go on) Dick ... how ... were
        Message 3 of 28 , Jan 5, 2009
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          I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of the
          garden shed
          (sorry to go on)
          Dick




          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
          <coracles18@...> wrote:
          >
          > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because
          > it is no longer relevant.
          > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
          > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation as to
          how
          > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly how
          were
          > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
          > Dick
          >
        • Pete B.
          Dick, I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate. I believe that
          Message 4 of 28 , Jan 5, 2009
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            Dick,

            I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate. I believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as a 4 or 5 year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were in the aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I might have been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the Radarange and how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't thought of replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young mind had tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or able to convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of those inovators.

            On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the Us from France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show a hand pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.

            http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html 

            For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a patent on a boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.

            http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-inventor/ 

            Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now have Buehler Turbocraft boats

            http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465

            and the jet skis. That's it...

            Pete

             

            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy" <coracles18@...> wrote:
            >
            > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of the
            > garden shed
            > (sorry to go on)
            > Dick
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
            > coracles18@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten because
            > > it is no longer relevant.
            > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
            > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation as to
            > how
            > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly how
            > were
            > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
            > > Dick
            > >
            >

          • Richard Mundy
            Hi Pete, how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything about it! A couple
            Message 5 of 28 , Jan 7, 2009
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              Hi Pete,
              how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
              thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
              about it!
              A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs that
              pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but you
              saw it here first :)
              I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine. Because
              of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
              The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if you
              power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that relevant!

              Dick


              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > Dick,
              >
              > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a
              > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate.
              I
              > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as a 4
              or 5
              > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were in
              the
              > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I might
              have
              > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the Radarange
              and
              > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't thought of
              > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young mind
              had
              > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or able
              to
              > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of those
              > inovators.
              >
              > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the Us
              from
              > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show a
              hand
              > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
              >
              > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
              > <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
              >
              > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a patent on
              a
              > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
              >
              > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-inventor/
              > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
              inventor/>
              >
              > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now have
              > Buehler Turbocraft boats
              >
              > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
              > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
              >
              > and the jet skis. That's it...
              >
              > Pete
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
              > <coracles18@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of
              the
              > > garden shed
              > > (sorry to go on)
              > > Dick
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
              > > coracles18@ wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten
              > because
              > > > it is no longer relevant.
              > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
              > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation
              as to
              > > how
              > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly
              how
              > > were
              > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
              > > > Dick
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Frank McNeill
              Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a better way to let dogs pull you around.
              Message 6 of 28 , Jan 7, 2009
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                Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a
                better way to let dogs pull you around.

                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                <coracles18@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Pete,
                > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                > about it!
                > A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs that
                > pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but you
                > saw it here first :)
                > I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine. Because
                > of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
                > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if you
                > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that relevant!
                >
                > Dick
                >
                >
                > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Dick,
                > >
                > > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange at a
                > > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper plate.
                > I
                > > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as a 4
                > or 5
                > > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were in
                > the
                > > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I might
                > have
                > > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the Radarange
                > and
                > > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't thought of
                > > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young mind
                > had
                > > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or able
                > to
                > > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of those
                > > inovators.
                > >
                > > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the Us
                > from
                > > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show a
                > hand
                > > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
                > >
                > > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
                > > <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
                > >
                > > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a patent on
                > a
                > > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
                > >
                > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-inventor/
                > > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                > inventor/>
                > >
                > > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now have
                > > Buehler Turbocraft boats
                > >
                > > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
                > > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
                > >
                > > and the jet skis. That's it...
                > >
                > > Pete
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out of
                > the
                > > > garden shed
                > > > (sorry to go on)
                > > > Dick
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                > > > coracles18@ wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been forgotten
                > > because
                > > > > it is no longer relevant.
                > > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
                > > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is speculation
                > as to
                > > > how
                > > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge. Similarly
                > how
                > > > were
                > > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
                > > > > Dick
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Donald Qualls
                ... I had the idea for a lifetime electronic watch in 1977. Electronic watches were brand new then, it took Casio fifteen years to actually start selling a
                Message 7 of 28 , Jan 8, 2009
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                  Richard Mundy wrote:
                  > Hi Pete,
                  > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                  > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                  > about it!

                  I had the idea for a lifetime electronic watch in 1977. Electronic
                  watches were brand new then, it took Casio fifteen years to actually
                  start selling a watch like I envisioned, in which an "automatic" or
                  self-winding mechanical movement generates the tiny amount of
                  electricity needed to run the electronic watch. I also envisioned the
                  laptop computer with fold-down screen about that same time frame. I'd
                  have "invented" either one in a heartbeat, if I'd had a few thousand
                  (late 1970s) dollars to toss around...

                  > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if you
                  > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that relevant!

                  Efficiency is *more* important with solar power, because the power
                  density of a given collector is so low. The low tech aspect, however,
                  applies even more strongly to a Stirling engine (leftover food cans and
                  a rubber balloon?), which will give better efficiency than a Newcomen
                  steam engine and do it on a much lower working temperature (a reasonably
                  well designed Stirling engine needn't get anywhere near the boiling
                  point of water).

                  --
                  If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you want,
                  it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.

                  Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

                  Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
                  and don't expect them to be perfect.
                • Richard Mundy
                  Hi Frank, not seen anything like this in the UK, apparently its illegal - most things are. http://www.messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm Nearest thing is
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
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                    Hi Frank,
                    not seen anything like this in the UK, apparently its illegal - most
                    things are.

                    http://www.messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm

                    Nearest thing is Husky racing, this is on private land and
                    the 'sleds' have wheels in summer!

                    Dick


                    --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
                    <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a
                    > better way to let dogs pull you around.
                    >
                    > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                    > <coracles18@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Pete,
                    > > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                    > > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                    > > about it!
                    > > A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs
                    that
                    > > pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but
                    you
                    > > saw it here first :)
                    > > I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine.
                    Because
                    > > of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
                    > > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if
                    you
                    > > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that
                    relevant!
                    > >
                    > > Dick
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Dick,
                    > > >
                    > > > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon Radarange
                    at a
                    > > > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper
                    plate.
                    > > I
                    > > > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show as
                    a 4
                    > > or 5
                    > > > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They were
                    in
                    > > the
                    > > > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I
                    might
                    > > have
                    > > > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the
                    Radarange
                    > > and
                    > > > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't
                    thought of
                    > > > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young
                    mind
                    > > had
                    > > > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older or
                    able
                    > > to
                    > > > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of
                    those
                    > > > inovators.
                    > > >
                    > > > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the
                    Us
                    > > from
                    > > > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches show
                    a
                    > > hand
                    > > > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
                    > > >
                    > > > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
                    > > > <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
                    > > >
                    > > > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a
                    patent on
                    > > a
                    > > > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
                    > > >
                    > > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                    inventor/
                    > > > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                    > > inventor/>
                    > > >
                    > > > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We now
                    have
                    > > > Buehler Turbocraft boats
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
                    > > > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
                    > > >
                    > > > and the jet skis. That's it...
                    > > >
                    > > > Pete
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                    > > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got out
                    of
                    > > the
                    > > > > garden shed
                    > > > > (sorry to go on)
                    > > > > Dick
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                    > > > > coracles18@ wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been
                    forgotten
                    > > > because
                    > > > > > it is no longer relevant.
                    > > > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
                    > > > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is
                    speculation
                    > > as to
                    > > > > how
                    > > > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge.
                    Similarly
                    > > how
                    > > > > were
                    > > > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
                    > > > > > Dick
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Richard Mundy
                    Hi Donald, I take your point about efficiency and solar power, I was thinking of the sun as unlimited power, which it is, but as you imply the density of that
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
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                      Hi Donald,

                      I take your point about efficiency and solar power, I was thinking of
                      the sun as unlimited power, which it is, but as you imply the density
                      of that power when it reaches earth is fairly low.
                      I also agree about the Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                      development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen. I also have to
                      think of my limited workshop and budget!

                      Dick





                      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Donald Qualls
                      <silent1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Richard Mundy wrote:
                      > > Hi Pete,
                      > > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think, I
                      > > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing anything
                      > > about it!
                      >
                      > I had the idea for a lifetime electronic watch in 1977. Electronic
                      > watches were brand new then, it took Casio fifteen years to
                      actually
                      > start selling a watch like I envisioned, in which an "automatic" or
                      > self-winding mechanical movement generates the tiny amount of
                      > electricity needed to run the electronic watch. I also envisioned
                      the
                      > laptop computer with fold-down screen about that same time frame.
                      I'd
                      > have "invented" either one in a heartbeat, if I'd had a few
                      thousand
                      > (late 1970s) dollars to toss around...
                      >
                      > > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if
                      you
                      > > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that
                      relevant!
                      >
                      > Efficiency is *more* important with solar power, because the power
                      > density of a given collector is so low. The low tech aspect,
                      however,
                      > applies even more strongly to a Stirling engine (leftover food cans
                      and
                      > a rubber balloon?), which will give better efficiency than a
                      Newcomen
                      > steam engine and do it on a much lower working temperature (a
                      reasonably
                      > well designed Stirling engine needn't get anywhere near the boiling
                      > point of water).
                      >
                      > --
                      > If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you
                      want,
                      > it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.
                      >
                      > Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
                      http://silent1.home.netcom.com
                      >
                      > Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
                      > and don't expect them to be perfect.
                      >
                    • Pete B.
                      Hi Dick, Your messybeast link reminded me of the year (1965) that I was in Argentia, Nfld. I was a Navy Seabee stationed at the NAVFAC site. It was like
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
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                        Hi Dick,

                        Your "messybeast" link reminded me of the year (1965) that I was in
                        Argentia, Nfld. I was a Navy Seabee stationed at the NAVFAC site. It
                        was like stepping back 100 years in time. I can recall seeing farmers
                        with their 2 wheeled milk carts being pulled down the gravel road in
                        Placentia by Newfoundland dogs. The Newfies were like a coal black
                        St. Bernard. I also remember Fish Mongers on the street corner in St
                        Johns with their rubber boot and apron. Great memories!

                        Pete


                        --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                        <coracles18@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Frank,
                        > not seen anything like this in the UK, apparently its illegal -
                        most
                        > things are.
                        >
                        > http://www.messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm
                        >
                        > Nearest thing is Husky racing, this is on private land and
                        > the 'sleds' have wheels in summer!
                        >
                        > Dick
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
                        > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Go to http://www.dogscooter.com/about.htm for information about a
                        > > better way to let dogs pull you around.
                        > >
                        > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                        > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Pete,
                        > > > how often in life do we come across a new invention and think,
                        I
                        > > > thought of that years ago, but never got round to doing
                        anything
                        > > > about it!
                        > > > A couple of years ago I invented PTFE (slippery)boots for dogs
                        > that
                        > > > pull their owners around. I have no idea if it would work, but
                        > you
                        > > > saw it here first :)
                        > > > I have been thinking about the Newcomen atmospheric engine.
                        > Because
                        > > > of inefficiency it was supersceeded by Watts engine.
                        > > > The Newcomen has one big advantage, it is very low tech and if
                        > you
                        > > > power it with heat from the sun its inefficency is not that
                        > relevant!
                        > > >
                        > > > Dick
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B."
                        <georgeyyy@>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Dick,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I look back at my youth when I first saw the Raytheon
                        Radarange
                        > at a
                        > > > > Science Show in New Hampshire. I saw a egg cooked on a paper
                        > plate.
                        > > > I
                        > > > > believe that was in 1947. My grandfather took me to the show
                        as
                        > a 4
                        > > > or 5
                        > > > > year old. A few years later TV dinners hit the scene. They
                        were
                        > in
                        > > > the
                        > > > > aluminum trays and were rather basic meals. At that time I
                        > might
                        > > > have
                        > > > > been 10 or 11 years old. My memory took me back the the
                        > Radarange
                        > > > and
                        > > > > how it might been used with TV dinners. Although I hadn't
                        > thought of
                        > > > > replacing the aluminum tray with a non metallic one my young
                        > mind
                        > > > had
                        > > > > tied the microwave to the frozen meals. If I had been older
                        or
                        > able
                        > > > to
                        > > > > convince an adult of the potential I might have been one of
                        > those
                        > > > > inovators.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > On the Rumsey steamboat. Ben Franklin on a voyage back to the
                        > Us
                        > > > from
                        > > > > France came up with the jet boat idea, Franklin's sketches
                        show
                        > a
                        > > > hand
                        > > > > pump. Rumsey replaced the hand pump with a steam engine.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html
                        > > > >
                        <http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/library/readings/gulf/gulf.html>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > For you History buffs; the 16th President of the US had a
                        > patent on
                        > > > a
                        > > > > boat design. It's not steam related yet interesting.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                        > inventor/
                        > > > > <http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/04/abraham-lincoln-
                        > > > inventor/>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Lincoln's idea never grew but Franklin's certainly did. We
                        now
                        > have
                        > > > > Buehler Turbocraft boats
                        > > > >
                        > > > > http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465
                        > > > > <http://www.uncommonboats.com/website/article.asp?id=465>
                        > > > >
                        > > > > and the jet skis. That's it...
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Pete
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                        > > > > <coracles18@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I could also add how many promising inventions never got
                        out
                        > of
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > garden shed
                        > > > > > (sorry to go on)
                        > > > > > Dick
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Mundy"
                        > > > > > coracles18@ wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I can add to this, how much technology etc has been
                        > forgotten
                        > > > > because
                        > > > > > > it is no longer relevant.
                        > > > > > > An example is the Ironbridge, Shropshire, England.
                        > > > > > > It is known how the sections were cast, but it is
                        > speculation
                        > > > as to
                        > > > > > how
                        > > > > > > they actually assembled these to create the bridge.
                        > Similarly
                        > > > how
                        > > > > > were
                        > > > > > > the pyramids or stonehenge built?
                        > > > > > > Dick
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • David Halfpenny
                        ... From: Richard Mundy Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM ... The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development: - reduction
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 9, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --------------------------------------------------
                          From: "Richard Mundy" <coracles18@...>
                          Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM

                          > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                          > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.

                          The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                          - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings, clearances
                          masses etc
                          - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than atmospheric
                          air (like compressed air or other gases)

                          The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit volume since
                          it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as soon as
                          the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in messing
                          around with the losses.

                          Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen engine
                          would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.

                          David 1/2d
                        • Pete B.
                          Here s a link to the Little Engine Group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 10, 2009
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                            Here's a link to the Little Engine Group.

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520

                            Perhap you will find some additional ideas for projects or a design of your own.

                            Pete


                            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny" <dh1@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------
                            > From: "Richard Mundy" coracles18@...
                            > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM
                            >
                            > > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                            > > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.
                            >
                            > The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                            > - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings, clearances
                            > masses etc
                            > - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than atmospheric
                            > air (like compressed air or other gases)
                            >
                            > The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit volume since
                            > it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as soon as
                            > the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in messing
                            > around with the losses.
                            >
                            > Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen engine
                            > would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.
                            >
                            > David 1/2d
                            >

                          • Richard Mundy
                            Hi David, I am still a bit new at this. I have played around with pop pops some time ago but never got into the theory until now and there is a long way to go,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 12, 2009
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                              Hi David,
                              I am still a bit new at this. I have played around with pop pops some
                              time ago but never got into the theory until now and there is a long
                              way to go, its a long time since I did physics! The attraction of the
                              pop pop is its utter simplicity, and the Newcomen does not need high
                              pressure steam.
                              I doubt either engine will ever change the world but it looks like
                              fun trying.
                              Dick

                              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny"
                              <dh1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --------------------------------------------------
                              > From: "Richard Mundy" <coracles18@...>
                              > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM
                              >
                              > > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                              > > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.
                              >
                              > The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                              > - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings,
                              clearances
                              > masses etc
                              > - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than
                              atmospheric
                              > air (like compressed air or other gases)
                              >
                              > The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit volume
                              since
                              > it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as
                              soon as
                              > the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in
                              messing
                              > around with the losses.
                              >
                              > Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen
                              engine
                              > would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.
                              >
                              > David 1/2d
                              >
                            • Richard Mundy
                              Hi Pete, thanks for this link, I followed it up and joined. This will be incredibly useful from the engineering side. The area of experiment is narrowing down
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jan 12, 2009
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                                Hi Pete,
                                thanks for this link, I followed it up and joined.
                                This will be incredibly useful from the engineering side. The area of
                                experiment is narrowing down to the pop pop and the Newcomen.
                                I haven't started cutting metal yet, but I intend starting with some
                                established pop pop designs.
                                Glad you liked the dog cart page.
                                Dick

                                --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Pete B." <georgeyyy@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Here's a link to the Little Engine Group.
                                >
                                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520
                                > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LittleEngines/?yguid=68425520>
                                >
                                > Perhap you will find some additional ideas for projects or a design
                                of
                                > your own.
                                >
                                > Pete
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "David Halfpenny" <dh1@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > --------------------------------------------------
                                > > From: "Richard Mundy" coracles18@
                                > > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 4:50 PM
                                > >
                                > > > Stirling Engine - but there has been a lot of
                                > > > development of this, but hardly any on the Newcomen.
                                > >
                                > > The Stirling engine has had two kinds of development:
                                > > - reduction in losses by refinement of materials, bearings,
                                clearances
                                > > masses etc
                                > > - increase in power per unit volume by using denser media than
                                > atmospheric
                                > > air (like compressed air or other gases)
                                > >
                                > > The Newcomen engine is incapable of increased power per unit
                                volume
                                > since
                                > > it is by definition limited to atmospheric pressure. Therefore as
                                soon
                                > as
                                > > the steam engine came along, there was no longer any point in
                                messing
                                > > around with the losses.
                                > >
                                > > Toy Stirling engines are great fun, and I expect a toy Newcomen
                                engine
                                > > would be even more so, given a constant supply of cold water.
                                > >
                                > > David 1/2d
                                > >
                                >
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