Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [pop-pop-steamboats] Methyl hydrate wick burners to make steam.

Expand Messages
  • Donald Qualls
    ... I expect the difference is related to how air mixes with the evaporating fuel in the flame. The flat wick will have a long area in which the air mixes in
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 23, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      darylcanada73 wrote:
      > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts, usually
      > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy to
      > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat in a
      > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1" flat lamp
      > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not provide
      > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand using
      > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in brass
      > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made more
      > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high with the
      > flat wicks.
      >
      > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
      >
      >

      I expect the difference is related to how air mixes with the evaporating
      fuel in the flame. The flat wick will have a long area in which the air
      mixes in two-dimensionally, while a small round wick always mixes
      three-dimensionally; that means the larger wick burns with a taller
      flame (better for illumination, which is what flat wicks were made for)
      and, in a tight installation, may have been quenching the flame against
      the metal of the boiler. The extra fuel consumption was probably either
      burning off after the vapors had left the active area of the boiler or
      simply being lost unburned (the latter you should smell as a much
      greater alcohol odor compared to the three wick burner).

      Generally, if the flame contacts the boiler surface with anything except
      the extreme tip (the part of a candle flame that's starting to get faint
      as it rises, though this is much harder to see with the faint flame of
      alcohol), it's going to burn inefficiently and have both a lower
      transfer temperature and reduced total heat transfer.

      --
      If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you want,
      it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.

      Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

      Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
      and don't expect them to be perfect.
    • darylcanada73
      -Great idea Frank, Right now I m fresh out of finely ground stone. I m out of luck for grinding more any time soon as the wife still puts the harness on to
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 24, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        -Great idea Frank, Right now I'm fresh out of finely ground stone.
        I'm out of luck for grinding more any time soon as the wife still
        puts the harness on to pull the plow but she refuses to let me hitch
        her to the mill stones. Runs straight out to the North 40. She's out
        there now. Think I'll just leave her be for a while. You can bet I'll
        try that wick idea as soon as I can. Thanks a lot. Daryl.
        PS I liked the last home page picture better.



        -- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
        <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Daryl,
        >
        > Check out the latest home page picture for a patented permanent
        wick.
        > The patent has probably expired by now in the event that you would
        > like to make something like this witched wick of the west.
        >
        > Frank
        >
        >
        > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
        > <darylcanada73@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts,
        usually
        > > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy
        to
        > > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat
        in a
        > > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1"
        flat lamp
        > > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not
        provide
        > > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand
        using
        > > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in
        brass
        > > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made
        more
        > > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high
        with the
        > > flat wicks.
        > >
        > > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
        > >
        >
      • darylcanada73
        ... usually ... to ... in a ... flat lamp ... provide ... using ... brass ... more ... with the ... evaporating ... the air ... for) ... against ... either ...
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 25, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Donald Qualls
          <silent1@...> wrote:
          >
          > darylcanada73 wrote:
          > > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts,
          usually
          > > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy
          to
          > > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat
          in a
          > > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1"
          flat lamp
          > > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not
          provide
          > > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand
          using
          > > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in
          brass
          > > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made
          more
          > > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high
          with the
          > > flat wicks.
          > >
          > > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
          > >
          > >
          >
          > I expect the difference is related to how air mixes with the
          evaporating
          > fuel in the flame. The flat wick will have a long area in which
          the air
          > mixes in two-dimensionally, while a small round wick always mixes
          > three-dimensionally; that means the larger wick burns with a taller
          > flame (better for illumination, which is what flat wicks were made
          for)
          > and, in a tight installation, may have been quenching the flame
          against
          > the metal of the boiler. The extra fuel consumption was probably
          either
          > burning off after the vapors had left the active area of the boiler
          or
          > simply being lost unburned (the latter you should smell as a much
          > greater alcohol odor compared to the three wick burner).
          >
          > Generally, if the flame contacts the boiler surface with anything
          except
          > the extreme tip (the part of a candle flame that's starting to get
          faint
          > as it rises, though this is much harder to see with the faint flame
          of
          > alcohol), it's going to burn inefficiently and have both a lower
          > transfer temperature and reduced total heat transfer.
          >
          > --
          > If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you
          want,
          > it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.
          >
          > Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
          http://silent1.home.netcom.com
          >
          > Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
          > and don't expect them to be perfect.
          >
          Hello Donald,

          Thanks for the reply. I think that you have the right answer. The
          problem was coincident to running boats in a (temporary)speed testing
          pond I recently built in the carport. Outdoors, clipping along in the
          breeze was cooling some boilers so I was using various forms of
          cowling. In this case seems likely the cowling was too close and
          blocked air flow and just made the problem worse. Along the way I
          forgot that quality of flame is more important than quantity.

          I appreciate the help. Daryl.
        • Frank McNeill
          Hi Daryl, In the absence of finely ground stone, consider finely ground metal, brass perhaps, or maybe Nature s finely ground stone- AKA SAND. P/S The last
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 25, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Daryl,

            In the absence of finely ground stone, consider finely ground metal,
            brass perhaps, or maybe Nature's finely ground stone- AKA SAND.
            P/S The last home page picture is up again. The picture of that
            patented permanet wick can be seen in a photo album titled "flotsam,
            jetsam and lagan."

            Frank

            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
            <darylcanada73@...> wrote:
            >
            > -Great idea Frank, Right now I'm fresh out of finely ground stone.
            > I'm out of luck for grinding more any time soon as the wife still
            > puts the harness on to pull the plow but she refuses to let me hitch
            > her to the mill stones. Runs straight out to the North 40. She's out
            > there now. Think I'll just leave her be for a while. You can bet I'll
            > try that wick idea as soon as I can. Thanks a lot. Daryl.
            > PS I liked the last home page picture better.
            >
            >
            >
            > -- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
            > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Daryl,
            > >
            > > Check out the latest home page picture for a patented permanent
            > wick.
            > > The patent has probably expired by now in the event that you would
            > > like to make something like this witched wick of the west.
            > >
            > > Frank
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
            > > <darylcanada73@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts,
            > usually
            > > > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy
            > to
            > > > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat
            > in a
            > > > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1"
            > flat lamp
            > > > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not
            > provide
            > > > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand
            > using
            > > > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in
            > brass
            > > > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made
            > more
            > > > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high
            > with the
            > > > flat wicks.
            > > >
            > > > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
            > > >
            > >
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.