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Re: Methyl hydrate wick burners to make steam.

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  • Frank McNeill
    Hi Daryl, Check out the latest home page picture for a patented permanent wick. The patent has probably expired by now in the event that you would like to make
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 23, 2008
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      Hi Daryl,

      Check out the latest home page picture for a patented permanent wick.
      The patent has probably expired by now in the event that you would
      like to make something like this witched wick of the west.

      Frank


      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
      <darylcanada73@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts, usually
      > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy to
      > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat in a
      > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1" flat lamp
      > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not provide
      > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand using
      > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in brass
      > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made more
      > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high with the
      > flat wicks.
      >
      > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
      >
    • Donald Qualls
      ... I expect the difference is related to how air mixes with the evaporating fuel in the flame. The flat wick will have a long area in which the air mixes in
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 23, 2008
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        darylcanada73 wrote:
        > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts, usually
        > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy to
        > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat in a
        > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1" flat lamp
        > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not provide
        > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand using
        > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in brass
        > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made more
        > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high with the
        > flat wicks.
        >
        > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
        >
        >

        I expect the difference is related to how air mixes with the evaporating
        fuel in the flame. The flat wick will have a long area in which the air
        mixes in two-dimensionally, while a small round wick always mixes
        three-dimensionally; that means the larger wick burns with a taller
        flame (better for illumination, which is what flat wicks were made for)
        and, in a tight installation, may have been quenching the flame against
        the metal of the boiler. The extra fuel consumption was probably either
        burning off after the vapors had left the active area of the boiler or
        simply being lost unburned (the latter you should smell as a much
        greater alcohol odor compared to the three wick burner).

        Generally, if the flame contacts the boiler surface with anything except
        the extreme tip (the part of a candle flame that's starting to get faint
        as it rises, though this is much harder to see with the faint flame of
        alcohol), it's going to burn inefficiently and have both a lower
        transfer temperature and reduced total heat transfer.

        --
        If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you want,
        it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.

        Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer http://silent1.home.netcom.com

        Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
        and don't expect them to be perfect.
      • darylcanada73
        -Great idea Frank, Right now I m fresh out of finely ground stone. I m out of luck for grinding more any time soon as the wife still puts the harness on to
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 24, 2008
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          -Great idea Frank, Right now I'm fresh out of finely ground stone.
          I'm out of luck for grinding more any time soon as the wife still
          puts the harness on to pull the plow but she refuses to let me hitch
          her to the mill stones. Runs straight out to the North 40. She's out
          there now. Think I'll just leave her be for a while. You can bet I'll
          try that wick idea as soon as I can. Thanks a lot. Daryl.
          PS I liked the last home page picture better.



          -- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
          <frankmcneilll@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Daryl,
          >
          > Check out the latest home page picture for a patented permanent
          wick.
          > The patent has probably expired by now in the event that you would
          > like to make something like this witched wick of the west.
          >
          > Frank
          >
          >
          > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
          > <darylcanada73@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts,
          usually
          > > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy
          to
          > > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat
          in a
          > > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1"
          flat lamp
          > > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not
          provide
          > > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand
          using
          > > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in
          brass
          > > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made
          more
          > > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high
          with the
          > > flat wicks.
          > >
          > > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
          > >
          >
        • darylcanada73
          ... usually ... to ... in a ... flat lamp ... provide ... using ... brass ... more ... with the ... evaporating ... the air ... for) ... against ... either ...
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 25, 2008
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            --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Donald Qualls
            <silent1@...> wrote:
            >
            > darylcanada73 wrote:
            > > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts,
            usually
            > > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy
            to
            > > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat
            in a
            > > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1"
            flat lamp
            > > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not
            provide
            > > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand
            using
            > > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in
            brass
            > > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made
            more
            > > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high
            with the
            > > flat wicks.
            > >
            > > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
            > >
            > >
            >
            > I expect the difference is related to how air mixes with the
            evaporating
            > fuel in the flame. The flat wick will have a long area in which
            the air
            > mixes in two-dimensionally, while a small round wick always mixes
            > three-dimensionally; that means the larger wick burns with a taller
            > flame (better for illumination, which is what flat wicks were made
            for)
            > and, in a tight installation, may have been quenching the flame
            against
            > the metal of the boiler. The extra fuel consumption was probably
            either
            > burning off after the vapors had left the active area of the boiler
            or
            > simply being lost unburned (the latter you should smell as a much
            > greater alcohol odor compared to the three wick burner).
            >
            > Generally, if the flame contacts the boiler surface with anything
            except
            > the extreme tip (the part of a candle flame that's starting to get
            faint
            > as it rises, though this is much harder to see with the faint flame
            of
            > alcohol), it's going to burn inefficiently and have both a lower
            > transfer temperature and reduced total heat transfer.
            >
            > --
            > If, through hard work and perseverance, you finally get what you
            want,
            > it's probably a sign you weren't dreaming big enough.
            >
            > Donald Qualls, aka The Silent Observer
            http://silent1.home.netcom.com
            >
            > Opinions expressed are my own -- take them for what they're worth
            > and don't expect them to be perfect.
            >
            Hello Donald,

            Thanks for the reply. I think that you have the right answer. The
            problem was coincident to running boats in a (temporary)speed testing
            pond I recently built in the carport. Outdoors, clipping along in the
            breeze was cooling some boilers so I was using various forms of
            cowling. In this case seems likely the cowling was too close and
            blocked air flow and just made the problem worse. Along the way I
            forgot that quality of flame is more important than quantity.

            I appreciate the help. Daryl.
          • Frank McNeill
            Hi Daryl, In the absence of finely ground stone, consider finely ground metal, brass perhaps, or maybe Nature s finely ground stone- AKA SAND. P/S The last
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 25, 2008
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              Hi Daryl,

              In the absence of finely ground stone, consider finely ground metal,
              brass perhaps, or maybe Nature's finely ground stone- AKA SAND.
              P/S The last home page picture is up again. The picture of that
              patented permanet wick can be seen in a photo album titled "flotsam,
              jetsam and lagan."

              Frank

              --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
              <darylcanada73@...> wrote:
              >
              > -Great idea Frank, Right now I'm fresh out of finely ground stone.
              > I'm out of luck for grinding more any time soon as the wife still
              > puts the harness on to pull the plow but she refuses to let me hitch
              > her to the mill stones. Runs straight out to the North 40. She's out
              > there now. Think I'll just leave her be for a while. You can bet I'll
              > try that wick idea as soon as I can. Thanks a lot. Daryl.
              > PS I liked the last home page picture better.
              >
              >
              >
              > -- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "Frank McNeill"
              > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Daryl,
              > >
              > > Check out the latest home page picture for a patented permanent
              > wick.
              > > The patent has probably expired by now in the event that you would
              > > like to make something like this witched wick of the west.
              > >
              > > Frank
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "darylcanada73"
              > > <darylcanada73@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > I have been making and using these burners for my putt putts,
              > usually
              > > > custom designed to fit a particular boat and motor. They are easy
              > to
              > > > build and work well. An engine I just built required lots of heat
              > in a
              > > > rather long and narrow shape so I built a burner using two 1"
              > flat lamp
              > > > wicks side by side. Looked good and burned OK but it did not
              > provide
              > > > the heat I required. Replaced it with a burner I had at hand
              > using
              > > > three 1/4" round wicks made in my usual way with cotton string in
              > brass
              > > > tubing. I was surprised to find that the three round wicks made
              > more
              > > > heat than the 2 inches of flat wick. Fuel consumption was high
              > with the
              > > > flat wicks.
              > > >
              > > > Can any of you steam guys explain this?
              > > >
              > >
              >
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