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1710Re: New member. Advice on number of coils please.

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  • frankmcneilll
    Sep 1, 2009
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      Hi Jean-Yves,

      I have added the English translations of some of your pop-pop material to a folder titled "Pop-pop - La page de Jean-Yves" for the benefit of other members.
      Our member Jorge Hugo Cordero has video at http://tinyurl.com/moykf9 that confirms your theory about single pipes with closed ends.
      The "Achilles' Heel" of single pipe engines might be their inability to purge air that comes out of solution and accumulates in those closed ends. That might make the asymmetry of two pipe engines more of a virtue than a fault. It also suggests a method for steering boats with two pipe coiled or straight tube engines by using dampers to shift heat application from one end to the other.

      Best wishes, Frank


      --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud" <boite.de.j-y@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Frank,
      > Thank you for reminding old messages. There are so many...
      > I agree with you on the fact there is no need of several loops. To
      > demonstrate that a pop-pop engine is not always working symmetrical I
      > built a very simple one with classic copper material. Look at page 2 on
      > the doc entitled "Pop-pop engine or pump" on www.eclecticspace.net
      > <http://www.eclecticspace.net> . This very simple engine worked.
      > However, I must comfess that its thrust was weak.
      > I have an even simpler theory: any pipe closed at the end which is
      > heated can work as a pop-pop engine. The simplest one is a strait pipe.
      > This theory is easy to demonstrate with pipe ID 10 to 25mm. It is more
      > difficult with small ID because the heating power window becomes very
      > narrow. Too low power and the engine doesn't start. Too much power and
      > it goes soon to burnout. On stationary plants with electrical heating I
      > succeded several times to run during half an hour engines having an ID
      > down to 4mm.
      >
      > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "frankmcneilll"
      > <frankmcneilll@> wrote:
      > >
      > > There is a type of tubing that does not require coils.
      > > Go to message number 55 by Richard Jenkins about his adventures with
      > pop-pop boats. There are pictures of his boat Popflea in a photos
      > brochure titled Popflea and Firefly. Later Richard found the series of
      > articles in the British magazine Model Boats and posted a pdf file
      > titled "article_ModelBoats_4-96.pdf to the Files section.
      > > What might be a better way to install tubing is described in message
      > number 498 by Vance Bass about the need for a really effective cool
      > zone. This could be a "sump pump" evaporator, running the tubes into the
      > water and along the underside of the boat rather than out the rear
      > transom.
      > > It might also be done by arranging several square tubes to pass over a
      > boat from side to side and turn down and back to enter the water and
      > propel the boat after the tubes were filled with water and heated to
      > generate steam. A sketch used as a temporary home page picture might
      > make this explanation easier to understand.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer" epikflyer@
      > wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi jeanyves
      > > >
      > > > Thank you very much for your valuable and fascinating advice. I will
      > take this into great consideration while building my motors. I have seen
      > the works of Mr. Guus and the pop pop "klompern" are indeed impressive.
      > I applaud your scientific approach to your experimentation, in the
      > evaluation of your motors and thank you for sharing the results. I will
      > bear this in mind with my developments and of course, share my results
      > with you in hopefully as comprehensive manner as yourself.
      > > >
      > > > Many thanks and best regards.
      > > >
      > > > Tim
      > > >
      > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "jeanyves_renaud"
      > <boite.de.j-y@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I have not a good experience with coil having a vertical axis, but
      > I can say some words about the ones with horizontal axis. 3 years ago I
      > have tested 8 coil engines with the same bench. All of them made of
      > copper and with the same core diameter for the coil. All with the same
      > pipe diameter and coil diameter. The only difference was the number of
      > loops (or turns). I measured the thrust at each both ends. The numbers
      > of loops were respectively 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 6 and 7. Note that
      > 2.5, 3.5…correspond to classic engines. 2, 3, 4… were only
      > experimental engines. Such engines would be useless on a boat because
      > the pipes were opposite.
      > > > > What I learned from the tests is that the best practical engine is
      > the one with 4.5 loops.
      > > > > Since that time I have exchange many messages with Guus who is the
      > best expert I know in coil engines. He helped me to progress. And today
      > I know that the shape of the pipes (outside of the coil itself) that I
      > used was not optimized. I still have these 8 engines. One day, when I
      > have time I will improve the shape and test again…
      > > > > What seemed evident is the fact that above a certain number of
      > loops (4.5 or 5.5) the performance decreases.
      > > > > I have added a photo album with some of Guus coil engines. Album
      > title is Guus...
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, "epikflyer"
      > <epikflyer@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi Slater.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Many thanks for the links. I will investigate. I am getting
      > started with the materials for your diaphragm engine now. After more
      > investigation I am going to make a gutter test rig as described in the
      > group, to try out and compare different motors. I think a simple
      > lightweight spring balance with a flag and a marker pen will do the job.
      > I will have to visit the hardware shop this week to get some stuff to
      > play with. I am preparing an aluminium beer can as I write this, in
      > anticipation of my first putt putt boat motor. In your instructions it
      > states a soft drinks can. I hope this wont cause me problems!
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks again and best regards.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Tim
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com, Slater Harrison
      > <Sharrison@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Tim,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I don't know much about the coil engines, but I do have some
      > links to instructions as well as tips for finding the thin tubing on
      > this page http://www.sciencetoymaker.org/boat/coil_boat.htm
      > > > > > > Slater
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > From: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of epikflyer
      > > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:59 AM
      > > > > > > To: pop-pop-steamboats@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > > Subject: [pop-pop-steamboats] New member. Advice on number of
      > coils please.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Hello all.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I am new here and getting bits together to make my first put
      > put engine. I intend to use the coil type to start with. Could somebody
      > explain to me please, the effect of how many coils effects the
      > performance of the motor. Does more coils give more power or vice versa?
      > Also what effect does the internal diameter of the pipe have?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Any explanation or pointing in the right direction would be
      > greatly appreciated.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Many thanks and best regards.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Tim
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
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      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
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