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Re: Why Can't The Australian Imam Think Beyond Meat?

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  • Jimmy Jumshade
    Who said I am a muslim??!! Mr Hung-up-on-yourself??!! Yups, if women do not want to be ogled, gaped, leered at. If they do not want to be treated like
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 1, 2006
      Who said I am a muslim??!! Mr "Hung-up-on-yourself??!!" Yups, if women do not want to be ogled, gaped, leered at. If they do not want to be treated like sex-objects, dress decently....that's all. But if they want to peddle/exibit themselves as sex objects & sell themselves then, suffer the hazards & consequences which come with it.

      Years ago in new York city I was warned not to go to a certain area at night & inspite of being warned I did that & suffered a mugging/robbery & luckily got out alive. Same thing applies in this case, if you want to be treated decent, dress decent. If a woman dresses like a hooker, she will be perceived as & treated like a hooker about which she should not complain & insist upon not being treated like a sex object.



      a d <imemyself10020002000@...> wrote:
      Yr. language, yr. logic only proves once again, Islam is not a religion of peace; there cd. be exception , I am, however, yet to come accross.

      Jimmy Jumshade <jimmybug@...> wrote:
      To heck with "women-folk". The Imam is absolutely right. In UK over 200 convicted rapists were interviewed & they all said, "Had the women we raped been dressed modestly, we would not have raped them". QED

      Dress modestly, do not risk rape. Dress immodestly risk rape. Simple mathematics.



      D S Gill Chair IHRO <D.S.Gill@...> wrote:
      *I endorse Mr Sukla Sen's views. Australian Imam was wrong and he has
      degraded the dignity of a woman, no matter what religion she belonged to.
      The Imam should apologise for his wrong to the woman folk world wide.

      **D S Gill
      Chair IHRO*

      On 31/10/06, Sukla Sen wrote:
      >
      > Why Can't The Australian
      > Imam Think Beyond Meat?
      >
      > By Farzana Versey
      >
      > 28 October, 2006
      > Countercurrents.org
      >
      > Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali chose the month of Ramzan to
      > talk about meat. Unfortunately, he was referring to
      > women in that demeaning fashion.
      >
      > Said he, "If you take out uncovered meat and place it
      > outside on the street, or in the garden, or in the
      > park, or in the backyard without cover, and the cats
      > come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the
      > uncovered meat's?"
      >
      > While the concentration is on the woman as meat
      > analogy, we should also cast a glance at his
      > assumption that, as a consequence, men are cats. The
      > cat brain is vastly different from the human brain,
      > which the Mufti does not seem to understand.
      >
      > He went on to add, "If she (a woman) was in her room,
      > in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have
      > occurred."
      >
      > Which world does he live in? Is there no rape in
      > Muslim countries? Are women behind veils not molested?
      > Don't rapes take place inside homes?
      >
      > What is surprising is these comments were made at a
      > public sermon outside a mosque. What were the Muslims
      > doing at the time? Isn't Islam all about there being
      > one god and one prophet and one holy book? Then, this
      > human 'middleman' is not sacrosanct. Why did they not
      > pull him up immediately or issue a statement
      > distancing themselves from these disgusting views?
      >
      > A month later 'The Australian', a local newspaper
      > translated his comments, and now it has caused a
      > furore. The problem with hindsight is that an emotive
      > issue gets rationalised to the point that demerits too
      > are rectified. Even the BBC, while interviewing him,
      > described him thus: "A softly-spoken man, who clearly
      > commands both enormous respect and affection within
      > his community."
      >
      > This is a nice way to pin the whole community, at
      > least within Australia. Did the BBC's correspondent
      > conduct a poll to ascertain his popularity? The media
      > tends to assume that religious leaders, politicians,
      > pop stars control people's attention merely due to the
      > fact that they cater to or represent them
      > symbolically.
      >
      > To those who see this as one more Islamic problem, my
      > answer is, NO. It is the problem of one guy living in
      > Australia.
      >
      > There are those who are reacting to it and justifying
      > the Imam's statements by saying that even the Israeli
      > President Moshe Katsav has been involved in scandals
      > of rape, indecent assault and sexual harassment of
      > women. The latter is clearly a criminal offence for
      > which he will or ought to be tried in a court of law.
      >
      > There have been several cases of such crimes as well
      > as inappropriate behaviour, including by the former US
      > President Bill Clinton. The law took its course, to
      > whatever degree (some element of influence no doubt
      > impeding the legal process).
      >
      > However, bringing these examples into the present
      > discussion does not help, because these are not
      > religious leaders.
      >
      > Should there be different standards for them? Most
      > certainly. While politicians can be thrown out of
      > power, what checks and balances are there against
      > these 'people of god'?
      >
      > How different is the Mufti's behaviour from, say, a
      > situation in which a woman may be referred to as "a
      > nice piece of ass"? Social interactions require an
      > altogether different set of norms, based on the
      > constructs of that particular culture, which may or
      > may not look kindly upon such terminology.
      >
      > But the Mufti's words negate what HE is supposed to
      > stand for. His religion, Islam, does not give him the
      > right to talk in this manner. It is as simple as that.
      > If anything, he ought to feel ashamed of claiming
      > Islam as his own and so should the Muslims. He has no
      > business to hijack the religion for his paltry
      > understanding of it and his few minutes of notoriety.
      >
      > I do believe people should reasonably argue this issue
      > without getting into religious politics. Irrespective
      > of the fact that Australia has recently asked for a
      > citizenship test that may target Muslims and start the
      > whole debate about "integrating into the mainstream" –
      > a superficial and smart way to bludgeon a community –
      > it is a separate concern that needs to be tackled at
      > the level of immigration policy and political
      > prudence. Race riots have indeed affected many Muslims
      > of Middle East origin and as Walid Ali of the Islamic
      > Council of Victoria said, "I am expecting people to
      > get abused in the street and get abused at work."
      >
      > For now, however, the Australian Imam should be
      > disowned by the community for his irresponsible
      > remarks.
      >
      > (Farzana Versey can be reached at
      > kaaghaz.kalam@... )
      >
      > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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    • Jimmy Jumshade
      Exactly, what are you babbling about??!! Please translate. Thanx.................. Shaikh Hyder wrote: Because secularists like
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 1, 2006
        Exactly, what are you babbling about??!! Please translate. Thanx..................


        Shaikh Hyder <shaikh_hyder@...> wrote:
        Because secularists like you cannot think beyond meat and sex?Is it taboo to express one views. Or is it anti semitic?
         
        Some time ago I quoted a person in UK telling the same thing, "the scantily dressed women invite to be raped".  All were silent because he was a secularist man and not Muslim.
         
        You know very well the brahman thugs working with zionists and they jump at the first opportunity to pounce on a Muslim and implicate him with alqaida or taliban.

        Jimmy Jumshade <jimmybug@...> wrote:
        Who said I am a muslim??!! Mr "Hung-up-on-yourself??!!" Yups, if women do not want to be ogled, gaped, leered at. If they do not want to be treated like sex-objects, dress decently....that's all. But if they want to peddle/exibit themselves as sex objects & sell themselves then, suffer the hazards & consequences which come with it.

        Years ago in new York city I was warned not to go to a certain area at night & inspite of being warned I did that & suffered a mugging/robbery & luckily got out alive. Same thing applies in this case, if you want to be treated decent, dress decent. If a woman dresses like a hooker, she will be perceived as & treated like a hooker about which she should not complain & insist upon not being treated like a sex object.



        a d <imemyself10020002000@...> wrote:
        Yr. language, yr. logic only proves once again, Islam is not a religion of peace; there cd. be exception , I am, however, yet to come accross.

        Jimmy Jumshade <jimmybug@...> wrote:
        To heck with "women-folk". The Imam is absolutely right. In UK over 200 convicted rapists were interviewed & they all said, "Had the women we raped been dressed modestly, we would not have raped them". QED

        Dress modestly, do not risk rape. Dress immodestly risk rape. Simple mathematics.



        D S Gill Chair IHRO <D.S.Gill@...> wrote:
        *I endorse Mr Sukla Sen's views. Australian Imam was wrong and he has
        degraded the dignity of a woman, no matter what religion she belonged to.
        The Imam should apologise for his wrong to the woman folk world wide.

        **D S Gill
        Chair IHRO*

        On 31/10/06, Sukla Sen wrote:
        >
        > Why Can't The Australian
        > Imam Think Beyond Meat?
        >
        > By Farzana Versey
        >
        > 28 October, 2006
        > Countercurrents.org
        >
        > Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali chose the month of Ramzan to
        > talk about meat. Unfortunately, he was referring to
        > women in that demeaning fashion.
        >
        > Said he, "If you take out uncovered meat and place it
        > outside on the street, or in the garden, or in the
        > park, or in the backyard without cover, and the cats
        > come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the
        > uncovered meat's?"
        >
        > While the concentration is on the woman as meat
        > analogy, we should also cast a glance at his
        > assumption that, as a consequence, men are cats. The
        > cat brain is vastly different from the human brain,
        > which the Mufti does not seem to understand.
        >
        > He went on to add, "If she (a woman) was in her room,
        > in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have
        > occurred."
        >
        > Which world does he live in? Is there no rape in
        > Muslim countries? Are women behind veils not molested?
        > Don't rapes take place inside homes?
        >
        > What is surprising is these comments were made at a
        > public sermon outside a mosque. What were the Muslims
        > doing at the time? Isn't Islam all about there being
        > one god and one prophet and one holy book? Then, this
        > human 'middleman' is not sacrosanct. Why did they not
        > pull him up immediately or issue a statement
        > distancing themselves from these disgusting views?
        >
        > A month later 'The Australian', a local newspaper
        > translated his comments, and now it has caused a
        > furore. The problem with hindsight is that an emotive
        > issue gets rationalised to the point that demerits too
        > are rectified. Even the BBC, while interviewing him,
        > described him thus: "A softly-spoken man, who clearly
        > commands both enormous respect and affection within
        > his community."
        >
        > This is a nice way to pin the whole community, at
        > least within Australia. Did the BBC's correspondent
        > conduct a poll to ascertain his popularity? The media
        > tends to assume that religious leaders, politicians,
        > pop stars control people's attention merely due to the
        > fact that they cater to or represent them
        > symbolically.
        >
        > To those who see this as one more Islamic problem, my
        > answer is, NO. It is the problem of one guy living in
        > Australia.
        >
        > There are those who are reacting to it and justifying
        > the Imam's statements by saying that even the Israeli
        > President Moshe Katsav has been involved in scandals
        > of rape, indecent assault and sexual harassment of
        > women. The latter is clearly a criminal offence for
        > which he will or ought to be tried in a court of law.
        >
        > There have been several cases of such crimes as well
        > as inappropriate behaviour, including by the former US
        > President Bill Clinton. The law took its course, to
        > whatever degree (some element of influence no doubt
        > impeding the legal process).
        >
        > However, bringing these examples into the present
        > discussion does not help, because these are not
        > religious leaders.
        >
        > Should there be different standards for them? Most
        > certainly. While politicians can be thrown out of
        > power, what checks and balances are there against
        > these 'people of god'?
        >
        > How different is the Mufti's behaviour from, say, a
        > situation in which a woman may be referred to as "a
        > nice piece of ass"? Social interactions require an
        > altogether different set of norms, based on the
        > constructs of that particular culture, which may or
        > may not look kindly upon such terminology.
        >
        > But the Mufti's words negate what HE is supposed to
        > stand for. His religion, Islam, does not give him the
        > right to talk in this manner. It is as simple as that.
        > If anything, he ought to feel ashamed of claiming
        > Islam as his own and so should the Muslims. He has no
        > business to hijack the religion for his paltry
        > understanding of it and his few minutes of notoriety.
        >
        > I do believe people should reasonably argue this issue
        > without getting into religious politics. Irrespective
        > of the fact that Australia has recently asked for a
        > citizenship test that may target Muslims and start the
        > whole debate about "integrating into the mainstream" –
        > a superficial and smart way to bludgeon a community –
        > it is a separate concern that needs to be tackled at
        > the level of immigration policy and political
        > prudence. Race riots have indeed affected many Muslims
        > of Middle East origin and as Walid Ali of the Islamic
        > Council of Victoria said, "I am expecting people to
        > get abused in the street and get abused at work."
        >
        > For now, however, the Australian Imam should be
        > disowned by the community for his irresponsible
        > remarks.
        >
        > (Farzana Versey can be reached at
        > kaaghaz.kalam@... )
        >
        > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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      • Classic Wag
        * Men are born hunters * http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7242_1718762,00180007.htm ... Men are born hunters
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 1, 2006
          'Men are born hunters'
          http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7242_1718762,00180007.htm


          On 11/1/06, Jimmy Jumshade <jimmybug@...> wrote:

          Who said I am a muslim??!! Mr "Hung-up-on-yourself??!!" Yups, if women do not want to be ogled, gaped, leered at. If they do not want to be treated like sex-objects, dress decently....that's all. But if they want to peddle/exibit themselves as sex objects & sell themselves then, suffer the hazards & consequences which come with it.

          Years ago in new York city I was warned not to go to a certain area at night & inspite of being warned I did that & suffered a mugging/robbery & luckily got out alive. Same thing applies in this case, if you want to be treated decent, dress decent. If a woman dresses like a hooker, she will be perceived as & treated like a hooker about which she should not complain & insist upon not being treated like a sex object.



          a d <imemyself10020002000@...> wrote:

          Yr. language, yr. logic only proves once again, Islam is not a religion of peace; there cd. be exception , I am, however, yet to come accross.

          Jimmy Jumshade <jimmybug@... > wrote:
          To heck with "women-folk". The Imam is absolutely right. In UK over 200 convicted rapists were interviewed & they all said, "Had the women we raped been dressed modestly, we would not have raped them". QED

          Dress modestly, do not risk rape. Dress immodestly risk rape. Simple mathematics.



          D S Gill Chair IHRO <D.S.Gill@...> wrote:
          *I endorse Mr Sukla Sen's views. Australian Imam was wrong and he has
          degraded the dignity of a woman, no matter what religion she belonged to.
          The Imam should apologise for his wrong to the woman folk world wide.

          **D S Gill
          Chair IHRO*

          On 31/10/06, Sukla Sen wrote:
          >
          > Why Can't The Australian
          > Imam Think Beyond Meat?
          >
          > By Farzana Versey
          >
          > 28 October, 2006
          > Countercurrents.org
          >
          > Sheik Taj Aldin al Hilali chose the month of Ramzan to
          > talk about meat. Unfortunately, he was referring to
          > women in that demeaning fashion.
          >
          > Said he, "If you take out uncovered meat and place it
          > outside on the street, or in the garden, or in the
          > park, or in the backyard without cover, and the cats
          > come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the
          > uncovered meat's?"
          >
          > While the concentration is on the woman as meat
          > analogy, we should also cast a glance at his
          > assumption that, as a consequence, men are cats. The
          > cat brain is vastly different from the human brain,
          > which the Mufti does not seem to understand.
          >
          > He went on to add, "If she (a woman) was in her room,
          > in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have
          > occurred."
          >
          > Which world does he live in? Is there no rape in
          > Muslim countries? Are women behind veils not molested?
          > Don't rapes take place inside homes?
          >
          > What is surprising is these comments were made at a
          > public sermon outside a mosque. What were the Muslims
          > doing at the time? Isn't Islam all about there being
          > one god and one prophet and one holy book? Then, this
          > human 'middleman' is not sacrosanct. Why did they not
          > pull him up immediately or issue a statement
          > distancing themselves from these disgusting views?
          >
          > A month later 'The Australian', a local newspaper
          > translated his comments, and now it has caused a
          > furore. The problem with hindsight is that an emotive
          > issue gets rationalised to the point that demerits too
          > are rectified. Even the BBC, while interviewing him,
          > described him thus: "A softly-spoken man, who clearly
          > commands both enormous respect and affection within
          > his community."
          >
          > This is a nice way to pin the whole community, at
          > least within Australia. Did the BBC's correspondent
          > conduct a poll to ascertain his popularity? The media
          > tends to assume that religious leaders, politicians,
          > pop stars control people's attention merely due to the
          > fact that they cater to or represent them
          > symbolically.
          >
          > To those who see this as one more Islamic problem, my
          > answer is, NO. It is the problem of one guy living in
          > Australia.
          >
          > There are those who are reacting to it and justifying
          > the Imam's statements by saying that even the Israeli
          > President Moshe Katsav has been involved in scandals
          > of rape, indecent assault and sexual harassment of
          > women. The latter is clearly a criminal offence for
          > which he will or ought to be tried in a court of law.
          >
          > There have been several cases of such crimes as well
          > as inappropriate behaviour, including by the former US
          > President Bill Clinton. The law took its course, to
          > whatever degree (some element of influence no doubt
          > impeding the legal process).
          >
          > However, bringing these examples into the present
          > discussion does not help, because these are not
          > religious leaders.
          >
          > Should there be different standards for them? Most
          > certainly. While politicians can be thrown out of
          > power, what checks and balances are there against
          > these 'people of god'?
          >
          > How different is the Mufti's behaviour from, say, a
          > situation in which a woman may be referred to as "a
          > nice piece of ass"? Social interactions require an
          > altogether different set of norms, based on the
          > constructs of that particular culture, which may or
          > may not look kindly upon such terminology.
          >
          > But the Mufti's words negate what HE is supposed to
          > stand for. His religion, Islam, does not give him the
          > right to talk in this manner. It is as simple as that.
          > If anything, he ought to feel ashamed of claiming
          > Islam as his own and so should the Muslims. He has no
          > business to hijack the religion for his paltry
          > understanding of it and his few minutes of notoriety.
          >
          > I do believe people should reasonably argue this issue
          > without getting into religious politics. Irrespective
          > of the fact that Australia has recently asked for a
          > citizenship test that may target Muslims and start the
          > whole debate about "integrating into the mainstream" –
          > a superficial and smart way to bludgeon a community –
          > it is a separate concern that needs to be tackled at
          > the level of immigration policy and political
          > prudence. Race riots have indeed affected many Muslims
          > of Middle East origin and as Walid Ali of the Islamic
          > Council of Victoria said, "I am expecting people to
          > get abused in the street and get abused at work."
          >
          > For now, however, the Australian Imam should be
          > disowned by the community for his irresponsible
          > remarks.
          >
          > (Farzana Versey can be reached at
          > kaaghaz.kalam@ gmail.com )
          >
          > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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