Re: [political-research] Re: FDD's Bigger Donors and The Vatican
- Brief comment: hate speech against the Vatican and Roman Catholics has long been an important theme in the thinking of many Protestant Christian fundamentalists (not just the Christian Zionist faction of Christian fundamentalism). They believe that the Roman Catholic Church -- "the Whore of Babylon" -- is the Antichrist and the chief incarnation of Satan on Earth. John Hagee is far from the only leading Christian Zionist who holds these beliefs.
Actually, there are many similarities between the anti-Catholic propaganda of John Hagee and that of Eric Phelps and other anti-Catholic conspiracy theorists that you have cited. Hagee and Phelps come from the same anti-Catholic tradition in Protestantism.
What is extraordinary about John Hagee is that he has been enthusiastically embraced by the Israel lobby (and the Jewish lobby as well). So we have mainstream Jewish groups in the United States enabling the promotion of vicious hate speech against BOTH Muslims and Roman Catholics. Unbelievable! When the reality of this situation begins to sink in, all hell is going to break loose. AIPAC is playing with fire when it cozies up to religious extremists like John Hagee -- it is working hard to ignite a two-front global holy war against both Islam and Roman Catholicism, which together comprise more than two billion people. The American Founding Fathers, who, in the spirit of Enlightenment universalism, worked hard to put aside religious differences among Americans, would be horrified.
Based on my knowledge of Roman Catholic/Jewish relations over many centuries, I think that conflict between the Vatican and Israel is mostly real, not staged or manipulated. I would need to see solid evidence to change my thinking on this issue, and so far I have seen none. Christianity and Judaism (and Zionism) are fundamentally incompatible belief systems that can never be reconciled. Universalism and ethnic nationalism are radically different approaches to social organization. Ethnic nationalism by definition is highly divisive -- it violently divides the world into the particular ethnic nationalist group against everyone else in the world -- including universalists (like Christians and Muslims) and every other ethnic nationalist group (like Palestinian or European ethnic nationalists). The more messianic the ethnic nationalism, the more violent the conflict it generates with nearly everyone. This is the main reason why Israel and Zionism continue to be the source of so much controversy in world politics.
Naila <naila786@...> wrote:Yes, Sean, I actually did have one foot out the door, with the other not far behind after LeaNder's post! Your words, encouraging and much appreciated, have helped. I've found your own knowledge, and your challenges to fine-tune my thinking, to be valuable in setting my antennas a little higher for substantive information.
I continue to place Greg in that category, even though -- as he'd be the first to admit -- some of his guests go a bit far afield (he recently started a new line of inquiry on religious disinformation which is bound to make Phelps see red). I still think his article on Vatican connections to the Bush administration was quite factual -- it's just that there's a lot more to the story, involving infiltration of the Protestant elements, etc. (I'll post an article on this). As you say, it's complicated. Greg is a true humanitarian who has paid attention to victims of genocide, electronic harassment, 9-11, mind control, pedophilia in high places, etc. when they couldn't find a voice anywhere else. As for Capt. Eric May, I don't know his views on the Vatican. His defense of Greg came while he was writing mainly on 9-11; I referred to it mostly to show he endorsed his integrity as a journalist.
Which mainstream media outlets in America are owned and controlled by the Vatican or by Roman Catholic billionaires and oligarchs? As I see it, there's a division of labor in this highly symbiotic relationship between Rome and the Zionists, in which the latter take over the more outer-worldly functions like banking and media control, while Rome works more with the extensive network of secret societies. (This will sound far-fetched, and maybe I'm wrong, but an apparent opposition to the Iraq war would be necessary to keep up the illusion of separate agendas.) All of this is a vast over-simplification , of course, but may suggest a paradigm people can experiment with in trying to make sense of this hall-of-mirrors matrix. The search engines are great as far as they go, but as you know, they need views from outside the box to keep them questioning and growing.
Other than Hagee, I don't really see a lot of Christian Zionists publicly attacking the Catholic Church, though maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Even Hagee's spiel seemed rushed and frenetic (much to his disadvantage) , as if he knew he didn't have much time. But again, the PTB also work through Protestantism when it's to their advantage. There's some extremely interesting historical background I could send relating to manipulations by the Venetians (who reflected the evil strains of Zionism, and fed into the Jesuits). They deliberately set factions against each other while making their agendas appear separate, including the Catholics and Protestants. This all connects with an article I'm going to send about the Knights of Malta. I'll try to sniff out some dope on how it's all manifesting within the current political situation -- though it doesn't help that most of the Vatican hounds, and many NWO critics, are Protestant zealots blind to Israel and other realities (which, of course, is part of the problem right there).
Apologies to those to whom this all seems like an alien universe. I'll try to bring it closer to home.
Sean McBride wrote:Trying to figure out the lay of the land with regard to the relationships (overt and covert) among various power blocs in American and world politics is not a project for the faint-hearted. :) It doesn't hurt to be as tolerant as possible (within the limits of sanity) towards differing points of view.
Relations between the Vatican and Israel/Zionism are especially complex and problematic, to say the least. Naila presents her thought-provoking arguments with civility. We're all trying to muddle through this stuff.
Obviously I still haven't been persuaded that Vatican-centric ideologues are more influential in contemporary American politics than Israel-centric ideologues. But I'm willing to look at new evidence and arguments on this topic.
LeaNder <lea2n2der@googlemai l.com> wrote:Well she seems a kind person, absolutely no doubt. And she has very good
manners, which usually goes along with education.
I am only puzzled, in much the same way I was puzzled by e.g. Webfairy.
But admittedly I find it hard to believe someone considers Harry Potter
or J. K. Rowling as part of a conspiracy.
You'll please forgive my meddling anyway. You and Naila simply circeled
around a larger topíc that has come to interest me very much lately
on a slightly more scientific plane.
Beyond you are lucky, I won't have much time in the near future. ;-)
--- In political-research@ yahoogroups. com, Sean McBride <smcbride2@. ..>
My impression of Naila: an honest truth seeker with an inquisitive mind
who is exploring the dark side of deep politics. Even when I disagree
with her posts, I find them stimulating. She has forced me to put my
understanding of the role of the Vatican in global power politics in
better order. She strikes me as the kind of person who won't get stuck
in a rut and whose mind will continue to grow. She's on the right
--- In political-research@ yahoogroups. com, LeaNder lea2n2der@.. .> wrote:
Naila: Wow, thanks! Yes, I'd love to see the article. I had been
thinking I'd been paying too much attention to Hughes.<
LeaNder: I have not much time over the next couple of days. And as
someone easily distracted, I better not promise to scan it before next
At the moment I have two strong impressions of you. You are either
taking me for a ride, admittedly this impression is much stronger. Many
passages in your mails could be read as a parody. The other is the
Antichrist tale has a special attraction to you. That I could even
understand. I remember watching or reading some of these largely
Antichrist-tales, often obvious B-movies for the special attraction of
the motive(utpia - dystopia, anti-utopia - critiques/satires of
society). Your image of people scurrying away under the broom, triggers
a very special literary tradition. Could we say starting with Swift? But
maybe I should re-read the earlier utopias maybe the have a strongly
anti-Utopian aspect for us today, I don't remember now. They probably
have. Dystopias or Anti-utopias are no doubt later. At least it seems.