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Re: [political-graveyard] One Beef...

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  • ittner@aol.com
    For information on party affiliations in Congress, an excellent resource is the book, The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States Congress
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 2, 2000
      For information on party affiliations in Congress, an excellent resource is
      the book, "The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States
      Congress" by Kenneth Martis of West Virginia University. It was last
      published in 1989 I believe. I recommend it to anyone interested in
      political history.

      Gary Ittner
    • Lawrence Kestenbaum
      ... Martis is also one of the authors of the Historical Atlas of U.S. Congressional Districts, another book which would be incredibly useful to me.
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 3, 2000
        On Thu, 2 Nov 2000 ittner@... wrote:

        > For information on party affiliations in Congress, an excellent resource is
        > the book, "The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States
        > Congress" by Kenneth Martis of West Virginia University. It was last
        > published in 1989 I believe. I recommend it to anyone interested in
        > political history.
        >
        > Gary Ittner

        Martis is also one of the authors of the Historical Atlas of U.S.
        Congressional Districts, another book which would be incredibly useful to
        me.

        Unfortunately, I have never seen any of these books on Ebay. And given
        the scarcity, if one ever appeared, I don't know if I'll be able to keep
        up with the bidding.

        ---
        Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
        The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
      • ittner@aol.com
        I own a copy of The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United States Congress . Please feel free to email me with any questions you may have. Gary
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 4, 2000
          I own a copy of "The Historical Atlas of Political Parties in the United
          States Congress". Please feel free to email me with any questions you may
          have.

          Gary Ittner
        • Lawrence Kestenbaum
          Victor L. Berger was born in Nieder Rehbach, Austria-Hungary, in 1860. (I have also seen it as Nieder-Rehbach .) What is that place called today, and what
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 4, 2000
            Victor L. Berger was born in Nieder Rehbach, Austria-Hungary, in 1860.
            (I have also seen it as "Nieder-Rehbach".)

            What is that place called today, and what country is it in?

            I tried the Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names, and all I could find was
            that "Rehbach" is a river in Germany. I guess that would point to Austria
            rather than Hungary, no? "Nieder" is apparently a common geographic
            modifier, but I don't have a clue as to what it means.

            Many thanks for any help on this.

            ---
            Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
            The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
          • D.J. Jones
            ... 1860. ... find was ... Austria ... Since I have a few old encyclopedias, I m usually able to determine where these places are, but this one has me stumped.
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 5, 2000
              > Victor L. Berger was born in Nieder Rehbach, Austria-Hungary, in
              1860.
              > (I have also seen it as "Nieder-Rehbach".)
              >
              > What is that place called today, and what country is it in?
              >
              > I tried the Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names, and all I could
              find was
              > that "Rehbach" is a river in Germany. I guess that would point to
              Austria
              > rather than Hungary, no? "Nieder" is apparently a common geographic
              > modifier, but I don't have a clue as to what it means.
              >
              > Many thanks for any help on this.

              Since I have a few old encyclopedias, I'm usually able to determine
              where these places are, but this one has me stumped. Congressman
              Berger was always considered an Austrian (not Hungarian), so I would
              believe his birthplace would most likely still be in Austria. The
              question is where ? Well, "Nieder" in German seems to translate
              to "Down" and "Rehbach" translates to "Deer Brook", so this might
              likely refer to just a region rather than a specific place.

              Regards,
              Davy Jones
            • Kenneth Gibala
              Larry, The German word neider is an adjective meaning lower or lesser. The word reh-bach is from reh = deer and bach = creek so a rehbach means a section
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 5, 2000
                Larry,

                The German word "neider" is an adjective meaning lower or lesser.

                The word reh-bach is from "reh" = deer and "bach" = creek so a
                rehbach means a section where deer have been known to congregate near a
                creek. My wife's sister is from southern Germany and the town is by a
                tributary of the Danube River where deer a prevalent and the town is called
                Rehbach. A "Neider-Rehbach" is down the river from Rehbach. There are
                probably 250 towns and villages called Rehbach in Germany and Austria and
                are so small they would not even have a post office.

                I reviewed the listing for Victor L. Berger and feel the name of the
                country may be the best possible name for a birthplace for the moment.

                The web site from Britannica.com is below:
                ENCYCLOP├ćDIA BRITANNICA

                Berger, Victor (Louis)

                b. Feb. 28, 1860, Nieder-Rehbach, Austria-Hungary
                d. Aug. 7, 1929, Milwaukee, Wis., U.S.
                a founder of the U.S. Socialist Party, the first Socialist elected to
                Congress.

                Berger immigrated to the United States in 1878. He taught public school in
                Milwaukee for a time and from 1892 was editor successively of Vorwarts, a
                German-language newspaper that he founded, and the Social Democratic Herald,
                later known as the Milwaukee Leader. With Eugene V. Debs, he founded the
                Social Democratic Party, which in 1901 became the Socialist Party. Elected
                from Milwaukee to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1910, Berger served
                one term.

                During World War I, he joined other socialists in actively opposing U.S.
                participation; as a result, he was prosecuted under the Espionage Act, found
                guilty, and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Meanwhile, in 1918, he had
                again been elected to Congress. This time, however, members voted to deny
                him his seat. A special election was held in 1919, and Berger was again sent
                to Congress and again refused admittance. On an appeal to the Supreme Court,
                Berger had his espionage conviction overturned in 1921 and the following
                year was elected yet again to the House. Thus vindicated, he was permitted
                to take his seat; he served until 1929. In 1927 he succeeded Debs as
                chairman of the Socialist Party executive committee, a post he held until
                his death


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@...>
                To: <political-graveyard@egroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2000 12:14 AM
                Subject: [political-graveyard] Another European Geography Question


                >
                > Victor L. Berger was born in Nieder Rehbach, Austria-Hungary, in 1860.
                > (I have also seen it as "Nieder-Rehbach".)
                >
                > What is that place called today, and what country is it in?
                >
                > I tried the Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names, and all I could find was
                > that "Rehbach" is a river in Germany. I guess that would point to Austria
                > rather than Hungary, no? "Nieder" is apparently a common geographic
                > modifier, but I don't have a clue as to what it means.
                >
                > Many thanks for any help on this.
                >
                > ---
                > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                >
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: political-graveyard@...
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                political-graveyard-unsubscribe@...
                >
              • hbremmer@webtv.net
                Larry, I have come up with three possibilities: Austria: postal code 6677 Post Office/city: Schattwald. District/village: Rehbach Postal code: 8083. Post
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 5, 2000
                  Larry,
                  I have come up with three possibilities:

                  Austria: postal code 6677 Post Office/city:
                  Schattwald. District/village: Rehbach
                  Postal code: 8083. Post office/village: St. Stefan. District/Village:
                  Rehbach.

                  Germany: Postal code: 55566. b Sobernheim (Rhineland-Pfalz.

                  Hope this helps!

                  Helen Bremmer
                • D.J. Jones
                  ... switched ... Mich., ... candidates ... and forth ... I would tend to adopt the method they have on the online Biographical Directory of Congress
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 5, 2000
                    > > For trickier ones, where a pol switches parties, we could try
                    this:
                    >
                    > Unfortunately, it's not always clear specifically when someone
                    switched
                    > parties (not everyone calls a press conference, like Riegle in
                    Mich.,
                    > Lindsay and Forbes in N.Y., or Campbell in Colo.), and some
                    candidates
                    > have run in multiple different parties, in effect switching back
                    and forth
                    > repeatedly.

                    I would tend to adopt the method they have on the online
                    Biographical Directory of Congress (specifically, the Senators). For
                    the ones that ran (or won) in multiple primaries, using a bit of
                    common-sense should suffice in listing party. An example would be of
                    someone like Congressman Charles Rangel. On a number of occasions, he
                    ran on the Republican line (in addition to Democrat & Liberal), but
                    by no means would he be listed as a Republican member of Congress
                    during those times that he was cross-endorsed. I would tend to list
                    him simply as "Democrat" or "Democrat-Liberal" (just as I would tend
                    to list Mayor Giuliani as "Republican-Liberal"). I would tend to
                    disregard the other minor parties (unless one candidate was only the
                    nominee for that party).

                    > Moreover, it gets really tricky before the Civil War when the
                    parties were
                    > very fluid and the names of party tickets changed capriciously. If
                    > someone ran on the "Anti-Jackson" ticket one year, and the "Whig"
                    ticket
                    > in the following election, did they change parties?

                    I resolved this issue for Pre-Civil War parties by merely showing
                    them as a (for your example) an "Anti-Jacksonian" from the time of
                    the convening of one Congress until the next, upon which they would
                    be called a "Whig."

                    > I will see what I can do -- for the relatively simple cases, at
                    least. In
                    > the long run, I want to have party pages similar to the current
                    > organization and religion pages. Obviously for major parties,
                    these will
                    > have to be cut out pretty finely, perhaps by-state/by-decade. But
                    if you
                    > want to find all the nominees of the "Down With Lawyers" party,
                    say, they
                    > will all be listed together.

                    Don't forget Rhode Island's own "Cool Moose Party." Heck, why don't
                    they just bring back the Whigs ? Democrat and Republican seems so
                    boring now... :-)

                    Regards,
                    Davy Jones
                  • Lawrence Kestenbaum
                    According to complete unofficial returns, I received 7,763 votes, making me the highest vote getter among the 15 county commissioners. (Of course, I was
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                      According to complete unofficial returns, I received 7,763 votes, making
                      me the highest vote getter among the 15 county commissioners. (Of course,
                      I was unopposed, and my district is well above average both in voter
                      turnout and in population growth since 1990.)

                      As y'all may have noticed, work on the website was suspended due to all
                      the election activities. I'm having my post-election party this evening
                      (7pm, 325 E. Liberty, Ann Arbor, if you're in the area), and I expect to
                      resume work on the new version this weekend or so.

                      ---
                      Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                      The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                    • michelle Pyatt
                      Congrats. mel ... From: Lawrence Kestenbaum To: Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 7:05 AM Subject:
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                        Congrats.
                        mel
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@...>
                        To: <political-graveyard@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 7:05 AM
                        Subject: [political-graveyard] The election


                        >
                        >
                        > According to complete unofficial returns, I received 7,763 votes, making
                        > me the highest vote getter among the 15 county commissioners. (Of course,
                        > I was unopposed, and my district is well above average both in voter
                        > turnout and in population growth since 1990.)
                        >
                        > As y'all may have noticed, work on the website was suspended due to all
                        > the election activities. I'm having my post-election party this evening
                        > (7pm, 325 E. Liberty, Ann Arbor, if you're in the area), and I expect to
                        > resume work on the new version this weekend or so.
                        >
                        > ---
                        > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                        > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to: political-graveyard@...
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        political-graveyard-unsubscribe@...
                        >
                      • Paul W. Marino
                        Congratulations! ... From: Lawrence Kestenbaum To: political-graveyard@egroups.com Date: Wednesday,
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                          Congratulations!

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Lawrence Kestenbaum <polygon@...>
                          To: political-graveyard@egroups.com <political-graveyard@egroups.com>
                          Date: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 10:21 AM
                          Subject: [political-graveyard] The election


                          >
                          >
                          >According to complete unofficial returns, I received 7,763 votes, making
                          >me the highest vote getter among the 15 county commissioners. (Of course,
                          >I was unopposed, and my district is well above average both in voter
                          >turnout and in population growth since 1990.)
                          >
                          >As y'all may have noticed, work on the website was suspended due to all
                          >the election activities. I'm having my post-election party this evening
                          >(7pm, 325 E. Liberty, Ann Arbor, if you're in the area), and I expect to
                          >resume work on the new version this weekend or so.
                          >
                          >---
                          >Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                          >The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >To Post a message, send it to: political-graveyard@...
                          >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          political-graveyard-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                        • hbremmer@webtv.net
                          Congratulations Larry! Senator Ashcroft has announced that he will not challenge Mel Carnahan s posthumous victory. Helen Bremmer
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                            Congratulations Larry!

                            Senator Ashcroft has announced that he will not challenge Mel
                            Carnahan's posthumous victory.

                            Helen Bremmer
                          • regillilan@aol.com
                            15 county commissioners! What a strange system Michigan has. In Ohio a county commission has only three members. Ron Gillilan
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                              15 county commissioners!  What a strange system Michigan has.  In Ohio a
                              county commission has only three members.

                              Ron Gillilan
                            • D.J. Jones
                              ... making ... course, ... Congrats on your victory ! :-) Regards, Davy Jones
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                                > According to complete unofficial returns, I received 7,763 votes,
                                making
                                > me the highest vote getter among the 15 county commissioners. (Of
                                course,
                                > I was unopposed, and my district is well above average both in voter
                                > turnout and in population growth since 1990.)

                                Congrats on your victory ! :-)

                                Regards,
                                Davy Jones
                              • Stephen Morelli
                                Sounds like Larry was the winner in a 15 person race. How many serve out of the 15? In our Village we all run at large and I have seen as many as eight vying
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 8, 2000
                                  Sounds like Larry was the winner in a 15 person race. How many serve out of the 15?
                                  In our Village we all run "at large" and I have seen as many as eight vying for the availible seats. It was like that when I ran (and won) 6 years ago.----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 4:44 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [political-graveyard] The election

                                  15 county commissioners!  What a strange system Michigan has.  In Ohio a
                                  county commission has only three members.

                                  Ron Gillilan


                                  To Post a message, send it to:   political-graveyard@...
                                  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: political-graveyard-unsubscribe@...

                                • Lawrence Kestenbaum
                                  ... Here s a longwinded answer to that -- delete now unless you want to read my ramblings on local government structure! Michigan was settled by emigrants from
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 9, 2000
                                    On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 regillilan@... wrote:

                                    > 15 county commissioners! What a strange system Michigan has. In Ohio a
                                    > county commission has only three members.

                                    Here's a longwinded answer to that -- delete now unless you want to read
                                    my ramblings on local government structure!


                                    Michigan was settled by emigrants from along the Erie Canal, and they
                                    brought with them Upstate New York's place names, and New York's system of
                                    local government. Michigan counties, cities, villages and townships were
                                    structured precisely as they had been in New York.

                                    For many decades in both New York and Michigan, each county was governed
                                    by a Board of Supervisors, which consisted of the Supervisor (chief
                                    elected official) of each town or township, and usually a number of
                                    appointed officials from each city.

                                    In the 1960s, it became clear that this system did not meet evolving
                                    Constitutional standards of fair representation, since townships could
                                    vary widely in size, and cities were usually underrepresented.

                                    New York and Michigan responded to this problem in characteristically
                                    different ways.

                                    In Michigan, after some legal wrangling, there was a clean break with the
                                    past. The 83 counties, on VERY short notice, were all ordered to draw new
                                    equal population single-member districts, and elect the new "county
                                    supervisors" (soon changed to "county commissioners") from those districts
                                    in the 1968 election.

                                    This dramatically reduced the size of county boards. In Ingham County,
                                    the last board of supervisors had 42 members; the first board of
                                    commissioners had 21 members. The size of county boards has generally
                                    drifted downward with each census. In Washtenaw County, we have 15.
                                    That is to say, we have 15 districts, and each district elects one
                                    commissioner.

                                    In New York State, some counties changed to what is called a "county
                                    legislature", which I believe is essentially the same as our county board
                                    of commissioners, with county legislators elected from single member
                                    districts

                                    However, some counties, notably including Nassau and Jefferson, retained
                                    the old board of supervisors. To equalize the representation, each member
                                    of the board of supervisors casts a vote proportional to the number of
                                    people he or she represents. I was very startled to discover this, since
                                    I thought that this kind of weird fractional representation only happened
                                    as a temporary, court-ordered solution to malapportionment.

                                    Even stranger, in Jefferson County, N.Y., there is one member of the board
                                    of supervisors for each town, and one for each ward of the City of
                                    Watertown. But the city of Watertown stopped using wards to elect its
                                    city council decades ago, and the ward boundaries haven't been changed
                                    since before World War I. One ward in particular -- I think it is the 7th
                                    -- has very little population left, due to redevelopment of formerly
                                    residential areas into nonresidential. It still elects a member of the
                                    board of supervisors, but his or her vote counts for almost nothing.

                                    I've called Ann Arbor, Michigan, "a museum of archaic political
                                    structures" (admittedly that's not as true as it was a few years ago), but
                                    Ann Arbor has nothing like Watertown's eccentric county board
                                    representation.

                                    Nassau County, N.Y., which is a section of Long Island, has a board of
                                    supervisors with a small number of members, since the county consists of
                                    just a few large towns (the Town of Hempstead has more than one U.S.
                                    congressional district) and the small City of Long Beach. As I understand
                                    it, the member from Long Beach has such a small vote, and the other
                                    members have such huge votes, that the Long Beach member cannot possibly
                                    change the outcome of any vote, whether it requires a simple majority or
                                    two-thirds, no matter how the other votes are divided. Of course, he can
                                    still talk!

                                    ---
                                    Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                                    The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                                  • Lawrence Kestenbaum
                                    ... No, no, we have 15 districts. This year was highly unusual in that eight of the districts including mine, a single major-party candidate ran and was
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 9, 2000
                                      On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Stephen Morelli wrote:

                                      > Sounds like Larry was the winner in a 15 person race. How many serve
                                      > out of the 15?

                                      No, no, we have 15 districts. This year was highly unusual in that eight
                                      of the districts including mine, a single major-party candidate ran and
                                      was elected by default. Seven other districts had competition between
                                      major-party candidates. By "the 15 commissioners," I meant the winners in
                                      each of those districts, so I was comparing numbers that are not really
                                      very comparable. It's a meaningless but potentially fun statistic.

                                      > In our Village we all run "at large" and I have seen as many as eight
                                      > vying for the availible seats. It was like that when I ran (and won) 6
                                      > years ago.

                                      Washtenaw County has about 300,000 people, and each district therefore has
                                      about 20,000. By state law, there has to be a minimum of five districts,
                                      a maximum of 21. That maximum is less in smaller counties.

                                      It's hard to imagine what the county board would be like if it were
                                      elected at-large. Running for office in a county-wide constituency of
                                      well over a quarter of a million people would be a very daunting
                                      proposition.

                                      Also, as I think about this, the sharply divergent interests of the
                                      different parts of the county vis-a-vis county government would make
                                      effective at-large representation a big challenge. The tendency would be
                                      to elect at-large reps who were as politically bland as possible, and of
                                      course all of them would be Democrats.

                                      With district representation, each area has its advocates at the table,
                                      and we even have a few Republicans (five this year, three next year).
                                      I think in our case, it is better to elect the commissioners by districts.

                                      In other news, you may have heard that a rural Michigan polling place was
                                      unable to deliver its ballots until 1am because a large bear sat down in
                                      front of the door to the building, trapping the poll workers inside and
                                      making them too nervous to work efficiently. Eventually, the state police
                                      arrived, decided the bear was not acting "normally", and shot it.

                                      Well, that was nowhere near here. I doubt that this county has had any
                                      wild bears since the 19th century.

                                      ---
                                      Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                                      The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                                    • marcleaver@aol.com
                                      Congratulations.
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 10, 2000
                                        Congratulations.
                                      • ittner@aol.com
                                        Thanks for the interesting discussion of county commissions. Here in Florida, (at least in Southwest Florida), there are five members on the county
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 10, 2000
                                          Thanks for the interesting discussion of county commissions.

                                          Here in Florida, (at least in Southwest Florida), there are five members on
                                          the county commissions. They each represent a district of the county and, I
                                          believe, must live in that district. However, they are elected at large by
                                          the entire county.

                                          The school board is very similar, five members, each representing a district,
                                          and all elected at large by the entire county. Having moved here from the
                                          north, I found this to be a peculiar arrangement.

                                          Gary Ittner
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