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[political-graveyard] Correction to previous!

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  • Lawrence Kestenbaum
    ... Of course, I meant, if it takes a 1930 B&O passenger train MORE (not less) than an hour and forty minutes to get to Washington from Harpers Farry, then
    Message 1 of 13 , May 14, 2000
      On Sun, 14 May 2000, Lawrence Kestenbaum wrote:

      > The most logical route to go by train from Huntington to Washington in
      > 1930 looks to have been the Baltimore & Ohio. If that is the route they
      > followed, the question is how long it takes to get from Harper's Ferry (at
      > the state line) to Washington Union Station -- less than an hour and 40
      > minutes means he probably died in Maryland *IF* they took the B&O.

      Of course, I meant, if it takes a 1930 B&O passenger train MORE (not less)
      than an hour and forty minutes to get to Washington from Harpers Farry,
      then obviously the train would have been in Maryland at 6:00 am when the
      Congressman died.

      ---
      Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
      The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
    • ittner@aol.com
      I believe I can help with the answers to a few of your questions. 1. The Battle of Fredericksburg was in Virginia, either Spotsylvania County or Stafford
      Message 2 of 13 , May 14, 2000
        I believe I can help with the answers to a few of your questions.

        1. The Battle of Fredericksburg was in Virginia, either Spotsylvania County
        or Stafford County, or even possibly the independent city of Fredericksburg.
        Just returned from vacation there a week ago.

        2. The Battle of Perryville took place in Boyle County, Kentucky.

        4. William King's plantation Kings Bend was near Cahaba in Dallas County,
        Alabama.

        7. Mickey Leland's plane went down, I believe, in Ethiopia, in Africa as he
        was on a fact finding tour for the Select Committee on Hunger.

        Hope this helps. Your web site continues to be one of the most interesting
        on the Internet.

        Gary Ittner
      • AEParshall@aol.com
        A couple, not many -- 1. Thomas Reade Rootes Cobb, Confederate general and member of the Confederate Congress, died December 13, 1862, at the battle of
        Message 3 of 13 , May 14, 2000
          A couple, not many --


          1. Thomas Reade Rootes Cobb, Confederate general and member of the
          Confederate Congress, died December 13, 1862, at the battle of
          Fredericksburg. QUESTION: What state was that in?


          >>> Virginia


          6. John Basil Lamar, Georgia congressman and Confederate soldier, wounded
          in the battle of Crampton's Gap, Maryland, and died the following day,
          September 15, 1862. QUESTION: Where is that?


          >>> Frederick Co., Maryland
        • Jill M. Myers
          Answers to some of questions: 1. VA, mostly Stafford County 2. Kentucky, Boyle County 3. Los Angles, CA, Los Angles County 4. There is a King s Bend AL,
          Message 4 of 13 , May 14, 2000
            Answers to some of questions:

            1. VA, mostly Stafford County
            2. Kentucky, Boyle County
            3. Los Angles, CA, Los Angles County
            4. There is a King's Bend AL, located in Blount County, near Clarence
            5. unknown (researching)
            6. nearest Keedysville, in now Washington County, then Frederick County
            7. Gambela, Ethiopia, 08/07/1989
            8. unknown (researching)

            BTW, a useful site for pinpointing places in terms of city and county is
            the Geographic Nameserver at

            http://mapping.usgs.gov/wwww/gnis/gnisform.html

            Jill M. Myers
            Montgomery Village, MD
            jmmyers@...

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@...>
            To: <political-graveyard@egroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:38 PM
            Subject: [political-graveyard] A few research questions


            >
            >
            > As I have been getting things ready for the new version, I have run across
            > a few nagging little questions. Most of these are cases where there is
            > quite a lot of information, but one crucial bit is missing. If any of
            > y'all have helpful information about any of these, I'd appreciate it.
            >
            > Note that for county locations, the idea is to have the county name or
            > location as it exists today, which of course may be different from what it
            > was when these events took place.
            >
            > Some of this relates to Civil War history; unfortunately I do not have any
            > handy reference to Civil War battles and events. The last question should
            > appeal to railroad historians!
            >
            >
            > 1. Thomas Reade Rootes Cobb, Confederate general and member of the
            > Confederate Congress, died December 13, 1862, at the battle of
            > Fredericksburg. QUESTION: What state was that in?
            >
            > 2. James Streshly Jackson, Union general and Kentucky congressman, was
            > killed October 8, 1862, at the battle of Perryville. QUESTION: Where is
            > the Perryville where the battle took place? (state and county)
            >
            > 3. Robert H. Keefe, California judge, died at the USC/Norris
            > Comprehensive Cancer Center. QUESTION: Where is that? (city and county)
            >
            > 4. William Rufus de Vane King, vice-president, died at his plantation,
            > King's Bend, in Alabama. QUESTION: Where is that? (county and maybe
            > near-city)
            >
            > 5. George L. Kinnard, Indiana congressman, died in the explosion of the
            > steamer Flora on the Ohio River, November 26, 1836. QUESTION: Where on
            > the Ohio River? (at least a state, ideally near-city and county)
            >
            > 6. John Basil Lamar, Georgia congressman and Confederate soldier, wounded
            > in the battle of Crampton's Gap, Maryland, and died the following day,
            > September 15, 1862. QUESTION: Where is that?
            >
            > 7. George Thomas 'Mickey' Leland, Texas congressman, died in an airplane
            > crash in 1989. QUESTION: Date, location?
            >
            > 8. Here's the best one yet. Congressman James Peter Glynn, of
            > Connecticut, died March 6, 1930, on a train en route to Washington DC from
            > Huntington WV. The congressional bio gives his death location as "near
            > Washington", which is not at all helpful since nothing near Washington is
            > in DC, and this unruly data point creates headaches in programming!
            >
            > So I looked up the obits in the Washington Post and New York Times.
            > Apparently the train was scheduled to arrive at Union Station in
            > Washington at 7:40 AM. Congressman Glynn had his heart attack in the
            > smoking car and died almost immediately at 6:00 AM. They telegraphed
            > ahead to Union Station to have a doctor ready there for him, of course to
            > no avail. (Could they have telegraphed from a moving train, or does that
            > imply they made a stop on the way to send the message?)
            >
            > The most logical route to go by train from Huntington to Washington in
            > 1930 looks to have been the Baltimore & Ohio. If that is the route they
            > followed, the question is how long it takes to get from Harper's Ferry (at
            > the state line) to Washington Union Station -- less than an hour and 40
            > minutes means he probably died in Maryland *IF* they took the B&O.
            >
            > However, the New York Times obituary, which gave much less information,
            > stated that he died on a Chesapeake & Ohio train. It's not at all clear
            > to me what the route would have been, but very likely it would have been
            > through Virginia.
            >
            > Could a C&O passenger train have run on B&O tracks in 1930? Or could the
            > Times just be wrong about which railroad it was?
            >
            > Note that Congressman Glynn was with a party of 12 members of Congress who
            > had been at a funeral in West Virginia. They probably would have wanted
            > the fastest available way back to DC.
            >
            > Anyway, have at it, if you like, and many thanks for your help.
            >
            > ---
            > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
            > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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          • Jill M. Myers
            Don t know if this helps any, but I used to ride the Maryland rail commuter train (then using old rail passenger cars) that goes from Martinsburg, WV, makes a
            Message 5 of 13 , May 14, 2000
              Don't know if this helps any, but I used to ride the Maryland rail commuter
              train (then using old rail passenger cars) that goes from Martinsburg, WV,
              makes a stop in Harpers Ferry and then continues to its final destination at
              Union Station in Washington DC on CSX rails, following probably the most
              used route from both historically and in present day from West Virginia to
              DC. From Harpers Ferry to Union Station on the MARC train today is about 1
              1/2 hours, with all the intermediate stops the train makes (some of which
              did not exist in 1930). Probably the Congressman died somewhere in Maryland
              south of Harper's Ferry--my guess would be somewhere around Point of
              Rocks--in the 1930s and before having a major passenger rail presence.

              See attached timetable for schedule of current MARC trains from Martinsburg
              to DC:

              http://www.mtamaryland.com/marc/marc_sch_brun_e.htm

              Jill M. Myers
              Montgomery Village, MD
              jmmyers@...


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@...>
              To: <political-graveyard@egroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:45 PM
              Subject: [political-graveyard] Correction to previous!


              >
              >
              > On Sun, 14 May 2000, Lawrence Kestenbaum wrote:
              >
              > > The most logical route to go by train from Huntington to Washington in
              > > 1930 looks to have been the Baltimore & Ohio. If that is the route they
              > > followed, the question is how long it takes to get from Harper's Ferry
              (at
              > > the state line) to Washington Union Station -- less than an hour and 40
              > > minutes means he probably died in Maryland *IF* they took the B&O.
              >
              > Of course, I meant, if it takes a 1930 B&O passenger train MORE (not less)
              > than an hour and forty minutes to get to Washington from Harpers Farry,
              > then obviously the train would have been in Maryland at 6:00 am when the
              > Congressman died.
              >
              > ---
              > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
              > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              > Phone bills too big? Don't worry, beMANY!
              > http://click.egroups.com/1/4113/1/_/360058/_/958355159/
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: political-graveyard@...
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              political-graveyard-unsubscribe@...
              >
            • Lotz, David (Dallas)
              I can help with George Thomas Mickey Leland. He died in a plane crash in Ethopia (Africa) on 7 Aug 1989. ... From: Lawrence Kestenbaum
              Message 6 of 13 , May 15, 2000
                I can help with George Thomas "Mickey" Leland. He died in a plane crash in
                Ethopia (Africa) on 7 Aug 1989.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Lawrence Kestenbaum [mailto:polygon@...]
                Sent: Sunday, 14 May, 2000 8:38 PM
                To: political-graveyard@egroups.com
                Subject: [political-graveyard] A few research
                questions



                As I have been getting things ready for the new version, I
                have run across
                a few nagging little questions. Most of these are cases
                where there is
                quite a lot of information, but one crucial bit is missing.
                If any of
                y'all have helpful information about any of these, I'd
                appreciate it.

                Note that for county locations, the idea is to have the
                county name or
                location as it exists today, which of course may be
                different from what it
                was when these events took place.

                Some of this relates to Civil War history; unfortunately I
                do not have any
                handy reference to Civil War battles and events. The last
                question should
                appeal to railroad historians!


                1. Thomas Reade Rootes Cobb, Confederate general and member
                of the
                Confederate Congress, died December 13, 1862, at the battle
                of
                Fredericksburg. QUESTION: What state was that in?

                2. James Streshly Jackson, Union general and Kentucky
                congressman, was
                killed October 8, 1862, at the battle of Perryville.
                QUESTION: Where is
                the Perryville where the battle took place? (state and
                county)

                3. Robert H. Keefe, California judge, died at the
                USC/Norris
                Comprehensive Cancer Center. QUESTION: Where is that?
                (city and county)

                4. William Rufus de Vane King, vice-president, died at his
                plantation,
                King's Bend, in Alabama. QUESTION: Where is that? (county
                and maybe
                near-city)

                5. George L. Kinnard, Indiana congressman, died in the
                explosion of the
                steamer Flora on the Ohio River, November 26, 1836.
                QUESTION: Where on
                the Ohio River? (at least a state, ideally near-city and
                county)

                6. John Basil Lamar, Georgia congressman and Confederate
                soldier, wounded
                in the battle of Crampton's Gap, Maryland, and died the
                following day,
                September 15, 1862. QUESTION: Where is that?

                7. George Thomas 'Mickey' Leland, Texas congressman, died
                in an airplane
                crash in 1989. QUESTION: Date, location?

                8. Here's the best one yet. Congressman James Peter Glynn,
                of
                Connecticut, died March 6, 1930, on a train en route to
                Washington DC from
                Huntington WV. The congressional bio gives his death
                location as "near
                Washington", which is not at all helpful since nothing near
                Washington is
                in DC, and this unruly data point creates headaches in
                programming!

                So I looked up the obits in the Washington Post and New York
                Times.
                Apparently the train was scheduled to arrive at Union
                Station in
                Washington at 7:40 AM. Congressman Glynn had his heart
                attack in the
                smoking car and died almost immediately at 6:00 AM. They
                telegraphed
                ahead to Union Station to have a doctor ready there for him,
                of course to
                no avail. (Could they have telegraphed from a moving train,
                or does that
                imply they made a stop on the way to send the message?)

                The most logical route to go by train from Huntington to
                Washington in
                1930 looks to have been the Baltimore & Ohio. If that is
                the route they
                followed, the question is how long it takes to get from
                Harper's Ferry (at
                the state line) to Washington Union Station -- less than an
                hour and 40
                minutes means he probably died in Maryland *IF* they took
                the B&O.

                However, the New York Times obituary, which gave much less
                information,
                stated that he died on a Chesapeake & Ohio train. It's not
                at all clear
                to me what the route would have been, but very likely it
                would have been
                through Virginia.

                Could a C&O passenger train have run on B&O tracks in 1930?
                Or could the
                Times just be wrong about which railroad it was?

                Note that Congressman Glynn was with a party of 12 members
                of Congress who
                had been at a funeral in West Virginia. They probably would
                have wanted
                the fastest available way back to DC.

                Anyway, have at it, if you like, and many thanks for your
                help.

                ---
                Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com



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              • Lawrence Kestenbaum
                It s a dramatic story: on February 28, 1844, practically the entire upper echelon of the U.S. government, from President John Tyler on down, including many
                Message 7 of 13 , May 17, 2000
                  It's a dramatic story: on February 28, 1844, practically the entire upper
                  echelon of the U.S. government, from President John Tyler on down,
                  including many cabinet members, congressional leaders, former First Lady
                  Dolley Madison, etc., boarded the Navy's steam frigate "Princeton" for a
                  brief cruise down the Potomac to see the huge "Peacemaker" cannon tested.
                  This was the largest cannon ever cast for any government up to that time;
                  it was able to shoot foot-diameter 225 pound cannonballs up to four miles.

                  The gun appeared to perform as advertised, until about 4pm when it
                  exploded, killing the Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Navy, along
                  with (I just learned) N.Y. state senator David Gardiner, whose daughter
                  would later marry the President, and a former Minister to Belgium. Sen.
                  Thomas Hart Benton of Missouri was badly hurt.

                  Question is: where did this explosion happen? In the database, it's "near
                  Washington", which is clearly not acceptable for the same reasons I
                  mentioned in connection with Congressman Glynn.

                  Accounts I have been looking at have placed the explosion in THREE
                  different places:

                  1. Off the Maryland shore, near Fort Washington.

                  2. Near Alexandria, Virginia.

                  3. Near Mount Vernon (George Washington's old home), Virginia.

                  I tend to doubt #3, since as I understand it, the voyage was essentially
                  from Washington to Mount Vernon and back, and surely by 4pm they were on
                  the return trip.

                  Does anyone have any better ideas or resources on this?

                  ---
                  Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                  The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                • jmmyers@sprynet.com
                  I grew up near the Fort Washington area of Maryland and remember hearing from the park rangers at the Fort about how the accident on the Princeton happened
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 17, 2000
                    I grew up near the Fort Washington area of Maryland and remember hearing from the park rangers at the Fort about how the accident on the Princeton happened near Fort Washington (which is virtually directly across the river from Mount Vernon).

                    For more info, see:

                    http://thecabin.net/stories/111599/wor_1115990018.html

                    Jill M. Myers
                    Montgomery Village, MD
                    jmmyers@...


                    political-graveyard@egroups.com wrote:
                    >

                    It's a dramatic story: on February 28, 1844, practically the entire upper
                    echelon of the U.S. government, from President John Tyler on down,
                    including many cabinet members, congressional leaders, former First Lady
                    Dolley Madison, etc., boarded the Navy's steam frigate "Princeton" for a
                    brief cruise down the Potomac to see the huge "Peacemaker" cannon tested.
                    This was the largest cannon ever cast for any government up to that time;
                    it was able to shoot foot-diameter 225 pound cannonballs up to four miles.

                    The gun appeared to perform as advertised, until about 4pm when it
                    exploded, killing the Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Navy, along
                    with (I just learned) N.Y. state senator David Gardiner, whose daughter
                    would later marry the President, and a former Minister to Belgium. Sen.
                    Thomas Hart Benton of Missouri was badly hurt.

                    Question is: where did this explosion happen? In the database, it's "near
                    Washington", which is clearly not acceptable for the same reasons I
                    mentioned in connection with Congressman Glynn.

                    Accounts I have been looking at have placed the explosion in THREE
                    different places:

                    1. Off the Maryland shore, near Fort Washington.

                    2. Near Alexandria, Virginia.

                    3. Near Mount Vernon (George Washington's old home), Virginia.

                    I tend to doubt #3, since as I understand it, the voyage was essentially
                    from Washington to Mount Vernon and back, and surely by 4pm they were on
                    the return trip.

                    Does anyone have any better ideas or resources on this?

                    ---
                    Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                    The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com


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                  • Jill M. Myers
                    From page 169 of a book titled The City of Washington: An Illustrated History, by The Junior League of Washington, edited by Thomas Froncek (Avenel, New
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 17, 2000
                      From page 169 of a book titled The City of Washington: An Illustrated
                      History, by The Junior League of Washington, edited by Thomas Froncek
                      (Avenel, New Jersey: Wings Books, 1977) is the following:

                      "Most Awful and Most Lamentable Catastrophe!" read the headline in The
                      National Intelligencer the day after a gun exploded aboard the U.S.S.
                      Princeton during a gala inspection cruise. As the paper reported in its
                      issue of February 29, 1844, the accident occurred:

                      "yesterday afternoon, whilst [the Princeton was] under way, in the river
                      Potomac, fourteen or fifteen miles below this city.
                      "Guests to full four hundred of Commander Stockton, men and women,
                      were on board. The ship went below Fort Washington. To entertain the guests
                      and at the same time to exhibit the capacity of a formidable gun (carrying a
                      ball of 225 pounds) it was fired several times. On the return and at a time
                      when all the women and most of the men were in other parts of the ship--the
                      time of a sumptuous repast--to the request that the gun be fired the
                      Commander gave consent. The gun burst. The commander was stunned to extent
                      he did not recover for some days. Seventeen seamen were wounded and if any
                      were killed it is not mentioned. Five distinguished men were killed: Abel P.
                      Upshur, Secretary of State; Thomas W. Gilmer, Secretary of the Navy; Captain
                      Beverly W. Kennon, Chief of the Bureau of Construction and Equipment of the
                      Navy; Virgil Maxcy, Charge d'Affairs of the United States in Belgium David
                      Gardiner, Ex-Senator of New York.
                      "From the ship the next morning the bodies were transferred to the
                      east room of the President's Mansion and lay in State at the Mansion. ...
                      The procession was impressive. Twelve men of honorable distinction preceded
                      each hearse.The bodies were placed in the vault of the Congressional burying
                      ground."
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Lawrence Kestenbaum" <polygon@...>
                      To: <political-graveyard@egroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 4:15 PM
                      Subject: [political-graveyard] Explosion on the Princeton


                      >
                      >
                      > It's a dramatic story: on February 28, 1844, practically the entire upper
                      > echelon of the U.S. government, from President John Tyler on down,
                      > including many cabinet members, congressional leaders, former First Lady
                      > Dolley Madison, etc., boarded the Navy's steam frigate "Princeton" for a
                      > brief cruise down the Potomac to see the huge "Peacemaker" cannon tested.
                      > This was the largest cannon ever cast for any government up to that time;
                      > it was able to shoot foot-diameter 225 pound cannonballs up to four miles.
                      >
                      > The gun appeared to perform as advertised, until about 4pm when it
                      > exploded, killing the Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Navy, along
                      > with (I just learned) N.Y. state senator David Gardiner, whose daughter
                      > would later marry the President, and a former Minister to Belgium. Sen.
                      > Thomas Hart Benton of Missouri was badly hurt.
                      >
                      > Question is: where did this explosion happen? In the database, it's "near
                      > Washington", which is clearly not acceptable for the same reasons I
                      > mentioned in connection with Congressman Glynn.
                      >
                      > Accounts I have been looking at have placed the explosion in THREE
                      > different places:
                      >
                      > 1. Off the Maryland shore, near Fort Washington.
                      >
                      > 2. Near Alexandria, Virginia.
                      >
                      > 3. Near Mount Vernon (George Washington's old home), Virginia.
                      >
                      > I tend to doubt #3, since as I understand it, the voyage was essentially
                      > from Washington to Mount Vernon and back, and surely by 4pm they were on
                      > the return trip.
                      >
                      > Does anyone have any better ideas or resources on this?
                      >
                      > ---
                      > Lawrence Kestenbaum, polygon@...
                      > The Political Graveyard, http://politicalgraveyard.com
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      > Up to 60% OFF food!
                      > Buy Now and Shipping is Free.
                      > http://click.egroups.com/1/4016/1/_/360058/_/958594536/
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