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Re: [podcasters] Re: [Beginner] why record live ?

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  • Nicole Simon
    ... Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :) I do end sentences but I know I jump between topics in one sentence. Should I change that? A little bit.
    Message 1 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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      luc@... wrote:

      >For example, in the little tests i've done I
      >realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.

      Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :)

      I 'do' end sentences but I know I jump between topics in one sentence.
      Should I change that? A little bit. But the rest is my personality.


      >When we talk in normal life we don't always finish sentences, (because
      >we use moves for example for express things), of to have a fluid flow
      >of words without hem..uuuh.. and silence while seraching for the next
      >sentence..

      So normally you do end sentences and if I would stop because I am searching
      for a word I would not podcast at all.

      OF course, the goal is to eliminate this and get into a more fluent way of
      speaking a more "natural" way. But if you start your podcast, I don't
      expect that from you. And maybe what you consider a pause is in my point of
      view a silence well noticed.

      Or do you want to change your real life talking also - where you did not
      end sentences and search for a word?

      If you really bother about that (I do if I have a pause longer than one /
      two seconds): I snip my fingers in front of the mike. When you edit the
      recording, you will see a spike (at least I do but I have a rather quite
      voice).

      This unusual spike tells you 'here! edit me!' and makes it therefor much
      easier to find the spots.

      hth
      NIcole


      --
      podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
      blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
    • luc@saint-elie.com
      ... Thanks a lot ! At first glance seems more or less what I m looking for Luc
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Yahoo 1" <julianduk@y...>
        wrote:
        > >Having listen to them it's clear for me that what they require (and
        > therefore what I require) is a "how to be a radio speaker tutorial :
        > the basics" and a "how to be an entry level radio technician : the
        > basics", and it's more or less what I'm looking for (among others
        > advices).
        >
        > That all exists here:
        >
        > http://www.iloveradio.org/ in the Podcasting101 category.

        Thanks a lot !

        At first glance seems more or less what I'm looking for

        Luc
      • Luc Saint-Elie
        ... Hello, I don t really understand how the fact I have to learn how to speak in a fluid manner is related to the fact my readers (and future listeners) are
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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          At 13:59 +0100 1/01/05, Nicole Simon wrote:
          >luc@... wrote:
          >
          >>For example, in the little tests i've done I
          >>realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
          >
          >Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :)

          Hello,

          I don't really understand how the fact I have to learn how to speak
          in a fluid manner is related to the fact my readers (and future
          listeners) are or not stupid (English is not my native language).

          Wrtign is my job, I'm journalist. My weblog is a way to write more
          freely things I don't write for paper that pay me. When I write for
          my weblog I pout in it the exact same amount of time, effort and
          professionalism as if it was a paid job.
          I would simply like to do the same with sound.

          This is not at all easy (for me), i made a test, the sound is
          horrible, I've not yet receive my hardware and I did that with my
          iBook integrated microphone (and the sound is really awful), and it
          took me a pretty big time to eliminate all "hum..." and stuff this
          way :

          ftp2.saint-elie.com/sainteli/audio/CN-reponse-2005-01-01.mp3

          Luc
        • Nicole Simon
          ... You made a point that for example you sometimes do not end sentences. In writing, this would be a problem but not in speaking. Coming from a writing
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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            Luc Saint-Elie <luc@...> wrote:
            >I don't really understand how the fact I have to learn how to speak
            >in a fluid manner is related to the fact my readers (and future
            >listeners) are or not stupid (English is not my native language).

            You made a point that for example you sometimes do not end sentences. In
            writing, this would be a problem but not in speaking. Coming from a writing
            perspective, especially as a journalist, this has to 'hurt' you *very* much
            because this does now not meet your quality standards.

            Question is therefor: Does your audience really care if sometimes your
            sentences do not end or you need a second to think of the word? Or do they
            just take it as granted that you as a non native speaker have some
            difficulties and therefor will have patience with you? Asuming you think of
            english speaking.

            If you speak in french:
            Sound is not written words in audio.

            >I would simply like to do the same with sound.

            Practice, practice, practice, practice.
            Have you always written as fast as you do now?

            Have you ever made sound snippets from you before? If not, 3/4 of it is
            getting used to your own voice at the beginning.



            >This is not at all easy (for me), i made a test, the sound is
            >horrible, I've not yet receive my hardware and I did that with my
            >iBook integrated microphone (and the sound is really awful),

            There are worse out there. :o)

            Question: Was this recorded talking or was this read from paper?

            Regarding your questions I would asume you did prepare this and read it
            from the paper.

            [While I did not like learning french because I have not had good luck with
            it, I really like french speaking french. ]

            It may help you to get into the mood of speaking (instead of reading
            written words, which is a totally different quality in writing) to make
            catchwords and speak freely on them.

            You could also try to determine how you write and adapt this to spoken
            words. Do you take several approaches to your written word? Do you make
            notes first and then just write? What is the way you can easily produce
            written words? I found that the way I write and speak is 'in production'
            very similar.

            While still different in some topics, there are things which are alike. For
            example I am better at editing than writing. So I quickly write down and do
            more effort with editing my words. Over the time, the quality of my writing
            has improved and editing and writing are closer together meaning less time
            needed for editing.

            Same with audio recording. I am better at respeaking words at once and make
            a special mark while recording and edit this later = cutting out whole
            sentences because I rerecorded them.

            After a while I also learned to 'see' my aehms and uhms. They have a
            special pattern. It helps to speak slower - for the listener to understand
            and for me to edit.

            I think you might have had a hell of editing because you speak *very* fast
            plus french is a language with very connected sounds/words. :o)

            hth
            Nicole



            --
            podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
            blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
          • luc@saint-elie.com
            ... do they ... think of ... Nicole,` From my very short (2 days) experience, it depends heavily of the voice. I have a rather uninteresting normal voice, and
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Nicole Simon <nisi@g...> wrote:

              > Question is therefor: Does your audience really care if sometimes your
              > sentences do not end or you need a second to think of the word? Or
              do they
              > just take it as granted that you as a non native speaker have some
              > difficulties and therefor will have patience with you? Asuming you
              think of
              > english speaking.

              Nicole,`

              From my very short (2 days) experience, it depends heavily of the voice.
              I have a rather uninteresting normal voice, and all kind of
              hesitations sound very badly.
              I had a look.. well a ear.. at your podcast. You have a very pleasant,
              sensual voice, not even a radio voice, an much more attractive voice
              than that.
              I supoose that if in the middle of a sentence you say "well.. wait a
              minute, I have to take off my shoes.." everybody, me included, will
              find this wonderfull.

              I'm not exactly in this situation....



              > >This is not at all easy (for me), i made a test, the sound is
              > >horrible, I've not yet receive my hardware and I did that with my
              > >iBook integrated microphone (and the sound is really awful),
              >
              > There are worse out there. :o)
              >
              > Question: Was this recorded talking or was this read from paper?

              It was talking, I didn't read it. In fact it's an answer to a
              question asked in a post comment, so it was rather easy to find the
              righs words

              > You could also try to determine how you write and adapt this to spoken
              > words. Do you take several approaches to your written word? Do you make
              > notes first and then just write? What is the way you can easily produce
              > written words? I found that the way I write and speak is 'in production'
              > very similar.

              I'm afraid it's not my case.
              When I have an article to write, I strat by writing everything I have
              collected on this topic without wondering if it as a structute. Then
              when all the info in on the paper (on my screen) I work on it a little
              bit as if I was doing sculpture.

              But it seem obvious to me today that you are damn right, and to go for
              the long term, I have to find a "spoken style", as I have developped a
              "written style"


              > Same with audio recording. I am better at respeaking words at once
              and make
              > a special mark while recording and edit this later = cutting out whole
              > sentences because I rerecorded them.

              Could you explain that. I had a very hard time in Audacity for
              searching, finding and supressing "hums.."


              > After a while I also learned to 'see' my aehms and uhms. They have a
              > special pattern. It helps to speak slower - for the listener to
              understand
              > and for me to edit.

              Interesting, I'll try to observe that !



              Thanks a lot Nicole
            • Olivier
              Hi hi :) ... o/ Happy new year to you too :) ... I don t find this stupid. I plan to do this with my show . I already made a website (unmaintain for 10
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 2, 2005
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                Hi hi :)

                Le vendredi 31 décembre 2004 à 17:49 +0000, luc@... a écrit :
                > Hello (and happy new year),

                \o/ Happy new year to you too :)

                > What I plan to do is the record the voice part on a MiniDisc, then
                > when I'm happy with it get it in an audio app on my Apple iBook
                > (probably Audacity), then add some ambiance sounds or music.

                > Is this stupid ?

                I don't find this stupid. I plan to do this with my "show". I already
                made a website (unmaintain for 10 months now :( ) wich presents
                rollerblading (fitness) in Bordeaux, and the nicest ways to go and
                discovers the wine area :) I Made a website, lots of photos I dhoot
                myself. It's difficult for me to present something, with not being on
                the place.
                So I decided to do the same with my podcast, discovering Bordeaux. I
                will present and comment each place of the city and some areas, and
                directly record there, so listeners would feel being with me. I think
                that the global sound is a neat addition to the podcast.

                But I'm doing this, because of the topic (presenting a place). One
                podcast will be on the beach. I think listener would be happier to feel
                on the beach than listening to a flat emotionless voice.

                As others people said here, this take more time to do that kind of
                podcast ! You need a preparation, need to go to the place you want to
                present, come back home and re-record everything on the computer and cut
                out all the crap sound :)

                I record my podcast on a minidisc. MD are made to record voice and
                music, where mp3 players, ipod, etc.. are only voice recorder. The
                quality is much better.

                Hope this helps you :)

                Olivier
              • Scot Mcphee
                ... Well, I worked mainly on the producer side of the microphone, not the talent end of it so I m not such fount of knowledge on actually using *my* voice. I
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 2, 2005
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                  >>
                  >> Why do live? Because it's a lot more FUN that way. I used to do a fair
                  >> bit of live radio years ago and it's lot more fun, felt more like
                  >> 'radio' than doing a prerecord with heavy editing (boring). Even when
                  >> we had to do a pre-record, it was always best (and easiest) to try and
                  >> produce it as a piece of live radio and just record it
                  >
                  >Good point.
                  >But as you stated you have a radio background so you know how to use
                  >your voice. It's by far not something obvious for a nearly total
                  >beginner like I am. For example, in the little tests i've done I
                  >realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
                  >When we talk in normal life we don't always finish sentences, (because
                  >we use moves for example for express things), of to have a fluid flow
                  >of words without hem..uuuh.. and silence while seraching for the next
                  >sentence..

                  Well, I worked mainly on the producer side of the microphone, not the
                  'talent' end of it so I'm not such fount of knowledge on actually
                  using *my* voice. I hate the sound of it actually <heh>. Anyway I
                  think you overestimate the amount of knowledge necessary to produce
                  acceptable results. I think the first thing to remember is that "BBC
                  English" isn't necessary to make good radio - you just need a story
                  and a good storyteller, really. Getting rid of umms aahs and noise
                  words ("like", "so", etc) basically takes a bit of practice, but not a
                  lot and the more you do it the better you get. Just like most things.
                  For the rest (knowing what to say) I'd say express it in the most
                  natural form for yourself, don't force it, and if you have difficulty
                  remembering your main points, write out cue cards before hand with the
                  major topic words on them.

                  regs
                  scot.


                  --
                  Autonomous Organisation http://www.autonomous.org/
                • Olivier
                  ... I understand what Luc means.. He doesn t think that the listener is stupid. But when you talk, you have your way to talk, intonation, inflection, etc..
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 7, 2005
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                    Le samedi 01 janvier 2005 à 13:59 +0100, Nicole Simon a écrit :
                    > luc@... wrote:
                    >
                    > >For example, in the little tests i've done I
                    > >realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
                    >
                    > Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :)

                    I understand what Luc means.. He doesn't think that the listener is
                    stupid. But when you talk, you have your way to talk, intonation,
                    inflection, etc.. that the people around you know. But when you consider
                    anybody around the world, you need to be more carefull of how you are
                    saying your meaning :p And that's a difficult task, I can assure you :p

                    If you listen to my first test podcast, and if you knew how I'm usually
                    speaking, you would notice a big difference :o)
                    Most of the "problem" is the local accent ;)

                    I've to (re)learn how to be understood ;)

                    That's why I'm writing as much as poxxible the text I will record. I
                    hope that with time, I'll be more confortable with all that :)

                    (btw, my rss feed is almost ready, I need a final check for validity
                    then the next podcast will follow :) )

                    Olivier
                  • Nicole Simon
                    ... Make sure the description says what you like it to say ... When pinging audio.weblogs.com for the first time, your description will be taken and send to
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 7, 2005
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                      Olivier <olisker@...> wrote:
                      >(btw, my rss feed is almost ready, I need a final check for validity
                      >then the next podcast will follow :) )

                      Make sure the description says what you like it to say ... When pinging
                      audio.weblogs.com for the first time, your description will be taken and
                      send to ipodder.org.

                      I was kind of surprised to see the sudden rise in referrers until i
                      realised that I hat pinged for the first time with my new podcast.php feed
                      - which the script took and made a new entry out of it.

                      As a standalone descriptions, this was okay, in this context it lacked the
                      magic words - my name. ;o)

                      NIcole

                      --
                      podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
                      blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
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