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Re: [podcasters] Re: [Beginner] why record live ?

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  • Harold Johnson
    I found this wonderful book at Borders about a month ago, Audio Anecdotes: Tools, Tips, and Techniques for Digital Audio . It s incredibly expensive but I
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 31, 2004
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      I found this wonderful book at Borders about a month ago, "Audio
      Anecdotes: Tools, Tips, and Techniques for Digital Audio". It's
      incredibly expensive but I found some great recording advice in it:

      http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1568811047/002-1687594-7076824?v=glance

      It would have made a great Christmas present for anyone starting down
      the path of podcasting, and it's certainly worth a visit to Border to
      read. Check out the chapter on recording techniques and you'll
      recognize the mistakes you've been making.

      Of course, I purposely ignore any and all "rules" when it comes to my
      own recordings...

      Harold J. Johnson
      http://SomethingthatHappened.com


      On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:37:13 -0500, Ross Wm. Rader <ross@...> wrote:
      > luc@... wrote:
      >
      > > Having listen to them it's clear for me that what they require (and
      > > therefore what I require) is a "how to be a radio speaker tutorial :
      > > the basics" and a "how to be an entry level radio technician : the
      > > basics", and it's more or less what I'm looking for (among others
      > > advices).
      >
      > I'll second that. The more I learn, the more I realize that I have no clue.
      >
      > Making this stuff sound good as good as I can is really important to me,
      > but its really hard to get up the curve fast on this stuff. I realize
      > that some people spend years, if not their entire lifetime, learning how
      > to make stuff like this sound good without fail - I'd be happy to know
      > enough how to make it sound basically decent once in a while. :)
      >
      > In other words, I need just enough book lernin' to be able to gooder up
      > my podcasts!! :)
      >
      > If you have any pointers or delicious tags that I should check out -
      > please share! I, for one, would be really grateful.
      >
      > Cheers folken,
      > --
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -rwr
      >
      >
      >
      > Contact info: http://www.blogware.com/profiles/ross
      > Skydasher: A great way to start your day
      > My weblog: http://www.byte.org
      >
      >
      >
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    • Scot Mcphee
      ... BTW, putting music in your podcast is a breach of copyright if you don t have permission from the relevant copyright holders (master tape and mechanicals).
      Message 2 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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        > What I plan to do is the record the voice part on a MiniDisc, then
        > when I'm happy with it get it in an audio app on my Apple iBook
        > (probably Audacity), then add some ambiance sounds or music.


        BTW, putting music in your podcast is a breach of copyright if you
        don't have permission from the relevant copyright holders (master tape
        and mechanicals).

        Why do live? Because it's a lot more FUN that way. I used to do a fair
        bit of live radio years ago and it's lot more fun, felt more like
        'radio' than doing a prerecord with heavy editing (boring). Even when
        we had to do a pre-record, it was always best (and easiest) to try and
        produce it as a piece of live radio and just record it (which is what
        a podcast is like).

        regs
        scot.



        --
        Autonomous Organisation http://www.autonomous.org/
      • luc@saint-elie.com
        ... I know, I m working with some musicians friends... ... Good point. But as you stated you have a radio background so you know how to use your voice. It s by
        Message 3 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Scot Mcphee <scot.mcphee@g...> wrote:
          > > What I plan to do is the record the voice part on a MiniDisc, then
          > > when I'm happy with it get it in an audio app on my Apple iBook
          > > (probably Audacity), then add some ambiance sounds or music.
          >
          >
          > BTW, putting music in your podcast is a breach of copyright if you
          > don't have permission from the relevant copyright holders (master tape
          > and mechanicals).


          I know, I'm working with some musicians friends...

          >
          > Why do live? Because it's a lot more FUN that way. I used to do a fair
          > bit of live radio years ago and it's lot more fun, felt more like
          > 'radio' than doing a prerecord with heavy editing (boring). Even when
          > we had to do a pre-record, it was always best (and easiest) to try and
          > produce it as a piece of live radio and just record it


          Good point.
          But as you stated you have a radio background so you know how to use
          your voice. It's by far not something obvious for a nearly total
          beginner like I am. For example, in the little tests i've done I
          realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
          When we talk in normal life we don't always finish sentences, (because
          we use moves for example for express things), of to have a fluid flow
          of words without hem..uuuh.. and silence while seraching for the next
          sentence..

          >(which is what a podcast is like).

          I'm not sure to feel in the "podcast move". What interest me are
          basicaly two things. The first is the fact that the "podcast wave"
          allow me to access experienced people like you. The other point is
          purely technical, in some time people will be able to automagically
          download my files (in some times because the tests I have done show
          rather clearly that podcast/RSS is very far from mainstream use, it
          will be the case the day when app like iTunes vill include Podcast
          download, allowing people to get websites files without wondering how
          this is done).

          Luc
        • Julian Yahoo 1
          ... therefore what I require) is a how to be a radio speaker tutorial : the basics and a how to be an entry level radio technician : the basics , and it s
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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            >Having listen to them it's clear for me that what they require (and
            therefore what I require) is a "how to be a radio speaker tutorial :
            the basics" and a "how to be an entry level radio technician : the
            basics", and it's more or less what I'm looking for (among others
            advices).

            That all exists here:

            http://www.iloveradio.org/ in the Podcasting101 category.

            >BTW, putting music in your podcast is a breach of copyright if you
            >don't have permission from the relevant copyright holders (master >tape and
            mechanicals).

            And you will be open to retrospective license fees. Don't imagine that you
            are safe by only putting out a few copies - I can imaging www.archive.org
            being crawled in a couple of years.

            Julian

            Web: www.thepicturepost.co.uk
            Blog: www.herecomespod.org.uk/blog/
            Podcast/RSS: http://www.bestchurches.org.uk/rss/offthebeatentrack.xml
          • Louis Hill
            Well I think you should definately experiment and find what sounds the best to you. I guess it also depends on how frequent you plan on recording. For
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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              Well I think you should definately experiment and find what sounds the
              best to you. I guess it also depends on how frequent you plan on
              recording. For instance, I try to podcast multiple times a week so
              with work and any attempts at a personal life, time is a factor so I
              tend to do a live/one-take approach which has suited me. If I were to
              move to a once a week or longer timeline I'd probably take the
              record/edit approach to get a more professional sound.

              Just my two cents.

              -Obi

              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, luc@s... wrote:
              >
              > Hello (and happy new year),
              >
              > I maintain a weblog for some time (http://blog.saint-elie.com) and i'm
              > planning to add audio content for 2005.
              >
              > I'm reading several websites (and some of this list messages) and near
              > all are talking about direct recording with an audio app.
              > As far as I hve endustood for example the Engadget tutorial explains
              > how to record in real time several sources at once.
              >
              > What I plan to do is the record the voice part on a MiniDisc, then
              > when I'm happy with it get it in an audio app on my Apple iBook
              > (probably Audacity), then add some ambiance sounds or music.
              >
              > Is this stupid ?
              >
              > Any advice very welcome
              >
              > Luc
            • Nicole Simon
              ... Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :) I do end sentences but I know I jump between topics in one sentence. Should I change that? A little bit.
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                luc@... wrote:

                >For example, in the little tests i've done I
                >realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.

                Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :)

                I 'do' end sentences but I know I jump between topics in one sentence.
                Should I change that? A little bit. But the rest is my personality.


                >When we talk in normal life we don't always finish sentences, (because
                >we use moves for example for express things), of to have a fluid flow
                >of words without hem..uuuh.. and silence while seraching for the next
                >sentence..

                So normally you do end sentences and if I would stop because I am searching
                for a word I would not podcast at all.

                OF course, the goal is to eliminate this and get into a more fluent way of
                speaking a more "natural" way. But if you start your podcast, I don't
                expect that from you. And maybe what you consider a pause is in my point of
                view a silence well noticed.

                Or do you want to change your real life talking also - where you did not
                end sentences and search for a word?

                If you really bother about that (I do if I have a pause longer than one /
                two seconds): I snip my fingers in front of the mike. When you edit the
                recording, you will see a spike (at least I do but I have a rather quite
                voice).

                This unusual spike tells you 'here! edit me!' and makes it therefor much
                easier to find the spots.

                hth
                NIcole


                --
                podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
                blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
              • luc@saint-elie.com
                ... Thanks a lot ! At first glance seems more or less what I m looking for Luc
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                  --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Yahoo 1" <julianduk@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > >Having listen to them it's clear for me that what they require (and
                  > therefore what I require) is a "how to be a radio speaker tutorial :
                  > the basics" and a "how to be an entry level radio technician : the
                  > basics", and it's more or less what I'm looking for (among others
                  > advices).
                  >
                  > That all exists here:
                  >
                  > http://www.iloveradio.org/ in the Podcasting101 category.

                  Thanks a lot !

                  At first glance seems more or less what I'm looking for

                  Luc
                • Luc Saint-Elie
                  ... Hello, I don t really understand how the fact I have to learn how to speak in a fluid manner is related to the fact my readers (and future listeners) are
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                    At 13:59 +0100 1/01/05, Nicole Simon wrote:
                    >luc@... wrote:
                    >
                    >>For example, in the little tests i've done I
                    >>realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
                    >
                    >Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :)

                    Hello,

                    I don't really understand how the fact I have to learn how to speak
                    in a fluid manner is related to the fact my readers (and future
                    listeners) are or not stupid (English is not my native language).

                    Wrtign is my job, I'm journalist. My weblog is a way to write more
                    freely things I don't write for paper that pay me. When I write for
                    my weblog I pout in it the exact same amount of time, effort and
                    professionalism as if it was a paid job.
                    I would simply like to do the same with sound.

                    This is not at all easy (for me), i made a test, the sound is
                    horrible, I've not yet receive my hardware and I did that with my
                    iBook integrated microphone (and the sound is really awful), and it
                    took me a pretty big time to eliminate all "hum..." and stuff this
                    way :

                    ftp2.saint-elie.com/sainteli/audio/CN-reponse-2005-01-01.mp3

                    Luc
                  • Nicole Simon
                    ... You made a point that for example you sometimes do not end sentences. In writing, this would be a problem but not in speaking. Coming from a writing
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                      Luc Saint-Elie <luc@...> wrote:
                      >I don't really understand how the fact I have to learn how to speak
                      >in a fluid manner is related to the fact my readers (and future
                      >listeners) are or not stupid (English is not my native language).

                      You made a point that for example you sometimes do not end sentences. In
                      writing, this would be a problem but not in speaking. Coming from a writing
                      perspective, especially as a journalist, this has to 'hurt' you *very* much
                      because this does now not meet your quality standards.

                      Question is therefor: Does your audience really care if sometimes your
                      sentences do not end or you need a second to think of the word? Or do they
                      just take it as granted that you as a non native speaker have some
                      difficulties and therefor will have patience with you? Asuming you think of
                      english speaking.

                      If you speak in french:
                      Sound is not written words in audio.

                      >I would simply like to do the same with sound.

                      Practice, practice, practice, practice.
                      Have you always written as fast as you do now?

                      Have you ever made sound snippets from you before? If not, 3/4 of it is
                      getting used to your own voice at the beginning.



                      >This is not at all easy (for me), i made a test, the sound is
                      >horrible, I've not yet receive my hardware and I did that with my
                      >iBook integrated microphone (and the sound is really awful),

                      There are worse out there. :o)

                      Question: Was this recorded talking or was this read from paper?

                      Regarding your questions I would asume you did prepare this and read it
                      from the paper.

                      [While I did not like learning french because I have not had good luck with
                      it, I really like french speaking french. ]

                      It may help you to get into the mood of speaking (instead of reading
                      written words, which is a totally different quality in writing) to make
                      catchwords and speak freely on them.

                      You could also try to determine how you write and adapt this to spoken
                      words. Do you take several approaches to your written word? Do you make
                      notes first and then just write? What is the way you can easily produce
                      written words? I found that the way I write and speak is 'in production'
                      very similar.

                      While still different in some topics, there are things which are alike. For
                      example I am better at editing than writing. So I quickly write down and do
                      more effort with editing my words. Over the time, the quality of my writing
                      has improved and editing and writing are closer together meaning less time
                      needed for editing.

                      Same with audio recording. I am better at respeaking words at once and make
                      a special mark while recording and edit this later = cutting out whole
                      sentences because I rerecorded them.

                      After a while I also learned to 'see' my aehms and uhms. They have a
                      special pattern. It helps to speak slower - for the listener to understand
                      and for me to edit.

                      I think you might have had a hell of editing because you speak *very* fast
                      plus french is a language with very connected sounds/words. :o)

                      hth
                      Nicole



                      --
                      podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
                      blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
                    • luc@saint-elie.com
                      ... do they ... think of ... Nicole,` From my very short (2 days) experience, it depends heavily of the voice. I have a rather uninteresting normal voice, and
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 1, 2005
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                        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Nicole Simon <nisi@g...> wrote:

                        > Question is therefor: Does your audience really care if sometimes your
                        > sentences do not end or you need a second to think of the word? Or
                        do they
                        > just take it as granted that you as a non native speaker have some
                        > difficulties and therefor will have patience with you? Asuming you
                        think of
                        > english speaking.

                        Nicole,`

                        From my very short (2 days) experience, it depends heavily of the voice.
                        I have a rather uninteresting normal voice, and all kind of
                        hesitations sound very badly.
                        I had a look.. well a ear.. at your podcast. You have a very pleasant,
                        sensual voice, not even a radio voice, an much more attractive voice
                        than that.
                        I supoose that if in the middle of a sentence you say "well.. wait a
                        minute, I have to take off my shoes.." everybody, me included, will
                        find this wonderfull.

                        I'm not exactly in this situation....



                        > >This is not at all easy (for me), i made a test, the sound is
                        > >horrible, I've not yet receive my hardware and I did that with my
                        > >iBook integrated microphone (and the sound is really awful),
                        >
                        > There are worse out there. :o)
                        >
                        > Question: Was this recorded talking or was this read from paper?

                        It was talking, I didn't read it. In fact it's an answer to a
                        question asked in a post comment, so it was rather easy to find the
                        righs words

                        > You could also try to determine how you write and adapt this to spoken
                        > words. Do you take several approaches to your written word? Do you make
                        > notes first and then just write? What is the way you can easily produce
                        > written words? I found that the way I write and speak is 'in production'
                        > very similar.

                        I'm afraid it's not my case.
                        When I have an article to write, I strat by writing everything I have
                        collected on this topic without wondering if it as a structute. Then
                        when all the info in on the paper (on my screen) I work on it a little
                        bit as if I was doing sculpture.

                        But it seem obvious to me today that you are damn right, and to go for
                        the long term, I have to find a "spoken style", as I have developped a
                        "written style"


                        > Same with audio recording. I am better at respeaking words at once
                        and make
                        > a special mark while recording and edit this later = cutting out whole
                        > sentences because I rerecorded them.

                        Could you explain that. I had a very hard time in Audacity for
                        searching, finding and supressing "hums.."


                        > After a while I also learned to 'see' my aehms and uhms. They have a
                        > special pattern. It helps to speak slower - for the listener to
                        understand
                        > and for me to edit.

                        Interesting, I'll try to observe that !



                        Thanks a lot Nicole
                      • Olivier
                        Hi hi :) ... o/ Happy new year to you too :) ... I don t find this stupid. I plan to do this with my show . I already made a website (unmaintain for 10
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 2, 2005
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                          Hi hi :)

                          Le vendredi 31 décembre 2004 à 17:49 +0000, luc@... a écrit :
                          > Hello (and happy new year),

                          \o/ Happy new year to you too :)

                          > What I plan to do is the record the voice part on a MiniDisc, then
                          > when I'm happy with it get it in an audio app on my Apple iBook
                          > (probably Audacity), then add some ambiance sounds or music.

                          > Is this stupid ?

                          I don't find this stupid. I plan to do this with my "show". I already
                          made a website (unmaintain for 10 months now :( ) wich presents
                          rollerblading (fitness) in Bordeaux, and the nicest ways to go and
                          discovers the wine area :) I Made a website, lots of photos I dhoot
                          myself. It's difficult for me to present something, with not being on
                          the place.
                          So I decided to do the same with my podcast, discovering Bordeaux. I
                          will present and comment each place of the city and some areas, and
                          directly record there, so listeners would feel being with me. I think
                          that the global sound is a neat addition to the podcast.

                          But I'm doing this, because of the topic (presenting a place). One
                          podcast will be on the beach. I think listener would be happier to feel
                          on the beach than listening to a flat emotionless voice.

                          As others people said here, this take more time to do that kind of
                          podcast ! You need a preparation, need to go to the place you want to
                          present, come back home and re-record everything on the computer and cut
                          out all the crap sound :)

                          I record my podcast on a minidisc. MD are made to record voice and
                          music, where mp3 players, ipod, etc.. are only voice recorder. The
                          quality is much better.

                          Hope this helps you :)

                          Olivier
                        • Scot Mcphee
                          ... Well, I worked mainly on the producer side of the microphone, not the talent end of it so I m not such fount of knowledge on actually using *my* voice. I
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jan 2, 2005
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                            >>
                            >> Why do live? Because it's a lot more FUN that way. I used to do a fair
                            >> bit of live radio years ago and it's lot more fun, felt more like
                            >> 'radio' than doing a prerecord with heavy editing (boring). Even when
                            >> we had to do a pre-record, it was always best (and easiest) to try and
                            >> produce it as a piece of live radio and just record it
                            >
                            >Good point.
                            >But as you stated you have a radio background so you know how to use
                            >your voice. It's by far not something obvious for a nearly total
                            >beginner like I am. For example, in the little tests i've done I
                            >realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
                            >When we talk in normal life we don't always finish sentences, (because
                            >we use moves for example for express things), of to have a fluid flow
                            >of words without hem..uuuh.. and silence while seraching for the next
                            >sentence..

                            Well, I worked mainly on the producer side of the microphone, not the
                            'talent' end of it so I'm not such fount of knowledge on actually
                            using *my* voice. I hate the sound of it actually <heh>. Anyway I
                            think you overestimate the amount of knowledge necessary to produce
                            acceptable results. I think the first thing to remember is that "BBC
                            English" isn't necessary to make good radio - you just need a story
                            and a good storyteller, really. Getting rid of umms aahs and noise
                            words ("like", "so", etc) basically takes a bit of practice, but not a
                            lot and the more you do it the better you get. Just like most things.
                            For the rest (knowing what to say) I'd say express it in the most
                            natural form for yourself, don't force it, and if you have difficulty
                            remembering your main points, write out cue cards before hand with the
                            major topic words on them.

                            regs
                            scot.


                            --
                            Autonomous Organisation http://www.autonomous.org/
                          • Olivier
                            ... I understand what Luc means.. He doesn t think that the listener is stupid. But when you talk, you have your way to talk, intonation, inflection, etc..
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jan 7, 2005
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                              Le samedi 01 janvier 2005 à 13:59 +0100, Nicole Simon a écrit :
                              > luc@... wrote:
                              >
                              > >For example, in the little tests i've done I
                              > >realized that one of the most difficult thing is to.. end sentences.
                              >
                              > Do you consider your listeners to be stupid? :)

                              I understand what Luc means.. He doesn't think that the listener is
                              stupid. But when you talk, you have your way to talk, intonation,
                              inflection, etc.. that the people around you know. But when you consider
                              anybody around the world, you need to be more carefull of how you are
                              saying your meaning :p And that's a difficult task, I can assure you :p

                              If you listen to my first test podcast, and if you knew how I'm usually
                              speaking, you would notice a big difference :o)
                              Most of the "problem" is the local accent ;)

                              I've to (re)learn how to be understood ;)

                              That's why I'm writing as much as poxxible the text I will record. I
                              hope that with time, I'll be more confortable with all that :)

                              (btw, my rss feed is almost ready, I need a final check for validity
                              then the next podcast will follow :) )

                              Olivier
                            • Nicole Simon
                              ... Make sure the description says what you like it to say ... When pinging audio.weblogs.com for the first time, your description will be taken and send to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jan 7, 2005
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                                Olivier <olisker@...> wrote:
                                >(btw, my rss feed is almost ready, I need a final check for validity
                                >then the next podcast will follow :) )

                                Make sure the description says what you like it to say ... When pinging
                                audio.weblogs.com for the first time, your description will be taken and
                                send to ipodder.org.

                                I was kind of surprised to see the sudden rise in referrers until i
                                realised that I hat pinged for the first time with my new podcast.php feed
                                - which the script took and made a new entry out of it.

                                As a standalone descriptions, this was okay, in this context it lacked the
                                magic words - my name. ;o)

                                NIcole

                                --
                                podcasts: http://gnak.de/ - http://useful-sounds.de/ (english)
                                blogs: http://beissholz.de/ - http://ideengeberin.de/
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