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Talk Show or Not?

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  • Julian Yahoo 1
    Musing. It seems to me that many of the early adopters are missing some tricks about Podcasting, and not matching the output to the strengths and weaknesses of
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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      Musing.

      It seems to me that many of the early adopters are missing some tricks about Podcasting, and not matching the output to the strengths and weaknesses of the medium.

      The analogy seems to be mainly from Radio Talk Shows. Not surprising perhaps when Adam Curry used to be a VJ on MTV. For me this is just too producer driven. It has its place, but perhaps not beyond the "geeks geeking about geekery" stage - unless we think of our podcasts as something we do for our own satisfaction.

      Talk shows seem to me to make the inherent limitations of putting out podcasts (bandwidth, associated cost, listener time etc.) worse by shunting huge amounts of MP3s around.

      We should be considering podcasting as extreme narrowcasting. A better analogy would be for micro-segmented audiences in the style of Usenet or the webfeeds from Moreover.com.

      I'm working on this model (short, sharp, sweet, small), and plan to put out another podcast with a supporting website at the weekend. I'll let you know.

      Perhaps a manifesto could be: 1 person, 1 subject, 1 minute, 1 megabyte - focus, focus, focus.

      Rgds

      Julian
      Feed for test cast: http://www.pplib.co.uk/rsstest/voiceofthenorth.xml


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • mglehman
      Julian, Exactly what hit me at BloggerCon and why I started doing Mike s Manic Minute about 3 weeks ago. It s 1 minute 500K (I ship it in mono because
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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        Julian,

        Exactly what hit me at BloggerCon and why I started doing "Mike's
        Manic Minute" about 3 weeks ago. It's 1 minute 500K (I ship it in
        mono because there's no real music involved) per "day"...I can't do
        it 7x week because I have a day job :)

        Check it out at www.manicminute.net

        Now, to balance that thought out I also do a weekly 8-10
        minute "talking" show and a weekly 8-10 music show (my daughter, my
        son and I are songwriters and recording "artists").

        I haven't actually gotten back to doing my original 5-
        minute "Softwareland" format in all that time (although I hope to
        shortly).

        - Michael Lehman
        - www.softwareland.org
        - www.manicminute.net
        - www.inmikeslife.org
        - www.podtridgefamily.org

        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Yahoo 1" <julianduk@y...>
        wrote:
        > Musing.
        >
        > It seems to me that many of the early adopters are missing some
        tricks about Podcasting, and not matching the output to the strengths
        and weaknesses of the medium.
        >
        > The analogy seems to be mainly from Radio Talk Shows. Not
        surprising perhaps when Adam Curry used to be a VJ on MTV. For me
        this is just too producer driven. It has its place, but perhaps not
        beyond the "geeks geeking about geekery" stage - unless we think of
        our podcasts as something we do for our own satisfaction.
        >
        > Talk shows seem to me to make the inherent limitations of putting
        out podcasts (bandwidth, associated cost, listener time etc.) worse
        by shunting huge amounts of MP3s around.
        >
        > We should be considering podcasting as extreme narrowcasting. A
        better analogy would be for micro-segmented audiences in the style of
        Usenet or the webfeeds from Moreover.com.
        >
        > I'm working on this model (short, sharp, sweet, small), and plan to
        put out another podcast with a supporting website at the weekend.
        I'll let you know.
        >
        > Perhaps a manifesto could be: 1 person, 1 subject, 1 minute, 1
        megabyte - focus, focus, focus.
        >
        > Rgds
        >
        > Julian
        > Feed for test cast:
        http://www.pplib.co.uk/rsstest/voiceofthenorth.xml
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gregory Narain
        Hi all, Part of my daily tasks is writing to my SocialTwister.com blog. For anyone who hasn t visited before (ok everyone here), I tend to cover topics
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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          Hi all,

          Part of my daily tasks is writing to my SocialTwister.com blog. For
          anyone who hasn't visited before (ok everyone here), I tend to cover
          topics related to social technology. I've been pondering about
          Podcasting and its ramifications for the past couple of weeks and I've
          just completed a new post that may be of interest.

          The post talks about the challenges of "making it big" in Podcasting as
          more and more people enter the fray. One of the potential blockages for
          us all are the parties that are the most influential in the space. The
          post is definitely not an attempt to hang anyone, but it's a quick
          application of some network theory to our real-life Podcasting lives.

          If you're interested, you can read it here:
          http://socialtwister.com/archives/000440.html

          Best regards,
          Greg
        • Steven Fisher
          Julian, I agree that your 1-1-1-1 Mantra is excellent. It is nice that everyone is spending time to do shows, but the average commute is 20-45 minutes. Some
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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            Julian,

            I agree that your 1-1-1-1 Mantra is excellent.

            It is nice that everyone is spending time to do shows, but the
            average commute is 20-45 minutes. Some endgaget podcasts are longer
            than that.

            With focused delivery, it fits the same consumption rate a blog and
            would nicely augment them. I would much rather get 2-5 minutes of
            highlights that drive me to their blog site to read more.

            Thoughts?

            Steve

            --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "mglehman" <ipodder@m...> wrote:
            >
            > Julian,
            >
            > Exactly what hit me at BloggerCon and why I started doing "Mike's
            > Manic Minute" about 3 weeks ago. It's 1 minute 500K (I ship it in
            > mono because there's no real music involved) per "day"...I can't do
            > it 7x week because I have a day job :)
            >
            > Check it out at www.manicminute.net
            >
            > Now, to balance that thought out I also do a weekly 8-10
            > minute "talking" show and a weekly 8-10 music show (my daughter, my
            > son and I are songwriters and recording "artists").
            >
            > I haven't actually gotten back to doing my original 5-
            > minute "Softwareland" format in all that time (although I hope to
            > shortly).
            >
            > - Michael Lehman
            > - www.softwareland.org
            > - www.manicminute.net
            > - www.inmikeslife.org
            > - www.podtridgefamily.org
            >
            > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Julian Yahoo 1"
            <julianduk@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Musing.
            > >
            > > It seems to me that many of the early adopters are missing some
            > tricks about Podcasting, and not matching the output to the
            strengths
            > and weaknesses of the medium.
            > >
            > > The analogy seems to be mainly from Radio Talk Shows. Not
            > surprising perhaps when Adam Curry used to be a VJ on MTV. For me
            > this is just too producer driven. It has its place, but perhaps not
            > beyond the "geeks geeking about geekery" stage - unless we think of
            > our podcasts as something we do for our own satisfaction.
            > >
            > > Talk shows seem to me to make the inherent limitations of putting
            > out podcasts (bandwidth, associated cost, listener time etc.)
            worse
            > by shunting huge amounts of MP3s around.
            > >
            > > We should be considering podcasting as extreme narrowcasting. A
            > better analogy would be for micro-segmented audiences in the style
            of
            > Usenet or the webfeeds from Moreover.com.
            > >
            > > I'm working on this model (short, sharp, sweet, small), and plan
            to
            > put out another podcast with a supporting website at the weekend.
            > I'll let you know.
            > >
            > > Perhaps a manifesto could be: 1 person, 1 subject, 1 minute, 1
            > megabyte - focus, focus, focus.
            > >
            > > Rgds
            > >
            > > Julian
            > > Feed for test cast:
            > http://www.pplib.co.uk/rsstest/voiceofthenorth.xml
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Charlie Quidnunc
            Julian, I m not much of a manifesto kind of guy. I can t do what I think is important in a minute. Mike s Manic minute is a great example of someone who can.
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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              Julian,

              I'm not much of a manifesto kind of guy. I can't do what I think is
              important in a minute. Mike's Manic minute is a great example of someone
              who can. Each to their own!

              I remember a manifesto that Sun Microsystems had in the early 90's: A
              MIP, a Meg, a Gig, and a Megapel. (A MIP was a million instructions a
              second, like 1 mHz today, a meg was a single megabyte of RAM, a gig was
              the size of the hard disk, and the megapel was the screen size). We blew
              by that in about 6 months. Don't worry about the number of the size.
              Just do it and the best will survive by improving.

              --

              Charlie Quidnunc

              Podcast: http://ripnread.blogspot.com
              RSS: http://feeds.feedburner.com/ripnread


              >We should be considering podcasting as extreme narrowcasting.
              >I'm working on this model (short, sharp, sweet, small), and plan to put
              >out another podcast with a supporting website at the weekend.
              >
              >Perhaps a manifesto could be: 1 person, 1 subject, 1 minute, 1 megabyte
              >- focus, focus, focus.
              >
              >Rgds
              >
              >Julian
            • Pete Prodoehl
              ... Well, I think the last three months of RasterWeb! Audio have all been less than 2 minutes, though I don t exactly drive people to my site afterwards... I
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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                Steven Fisher wrote:
                > Julian,
                >
                > I agree that your 1-1-1-1 Mantra is excellent.
                >
                > It is nice that everyone is spending time to do shows, but the
                > average commute is 20-45 minutes. Some endgaget podcasts are longer
                > than that.
                >
                > With focused delivery, it fits the same consumption rate a blog and
                > would nicely augment them. I would much rather get 2-5 minutes of
                > highlights that drive me to their blog site to read more.

                Well, I think the last three months of RasterWeb! Audio have all been
                less than 2 minutes, though I don't exactly drive people to my site
                afterwards... I guess it's more of a "listen and forget it " type thing.

                Pete
              • Dennis A. Amith
                ... It depends on the individual. If the podcast is to be something secondary to a blog, I understand. But I prefer to hear it, than read it. I enjoy both
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 17, 2004
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                  On 12/17/04 10:28 AM, "Steven Fisher" <sfisher@...> wrote:

                  > Julian,
                  >
                  > I agree that your 1-1-1-1 Mantra is excellent.
                  >
                  > It is nice that everyone is spending time to do shows, but the
                  > average commute is 20-45 minutes. Some endgaget podcasts are longer
                  > than that.
                  >
                  > With focused delivery, it fits the same consumption rate a blog and
                  > would nicely augment them. I would much rather get 2-5 minutes of
                  > highlights that drive me to their blog site to read more.
                  >
                  > Thoughts?
                  >
                  > Steve

                  It depends on the individual. If the podcast is to be something secondary
                  to a blog, I understand. But I prefer to hear it, than read it.

                  I enjoy both short and long podcasts. From Leo Laporte's tech reports and
                  last night from my 45 commute home, I listened to Engadget's report and I
                  just found it so fascinating to hear the news report from 1993 about "this
                  new technology called Internet".

                  For me, I need a break from music from my iPod since I have to review many
                  albums that before podcasting, aside from audio books, I was literally
                  converting my DVD's to audio to listen to during my commutes. Podcasting
                  has been one of the most wonderful things to listen to and regardless if
                  it's short or long, I appreciate people having their own podcasts and giving
                  us a choice.

                  I listened to the Daily Source Code and for example, several days ago when
                  he was interviewed by a reporter for Wired Magazine in his car. I truly
                  enjoyed the conversation between both of them. Although he's in Europe, you
                  felt that you were right there. A feeling you can't get with reading a on a
                  blog.

                  I listened to "Dawn & Drew" yesterday and living in California, although
                  it's cold here, it's nice to hear from their voices of dreading the cold
                  winter. And the comedy through their conversations really makes me laugh
                  after a hard day's work.

                  I have nothing against blogs, because I still read them but ever since
                  podcasting, I prefer to listen to it and again, regardless of it being short
                  or long, makes no difference to me. But I do appreciate the podcasters who
                  put the effort of making a 30-45 minute podcast.

                  - daa
                • Harold Johnson
                  Interesting article. Here was my addition to the conversation: Adam is certainly the largest hub of this network, and anyone who can get linked to or
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 20, 2004
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                    Interesting article. Here was my addition to the conversation:

                    Adam is certainly the largest "hub" of this network, and anyone who
                    can get linked to or mentioned by him will certainly benefit from his
                    influence of audience. This whole topic is explored in depth in a
                    wonderful book by Albert-Laszlo Barabasi, "Linked: How Everything Is
                    Connected to Everything Else and What It Means".

                    Yet anyone who attempts to infiltrate the Pod Squad by kissing up to
                    the group risks doing so at the expense of good content. My advice:
                    just podcast about what you love and know, not with the intent of
                    attracting the attention of the Pod Squad. Serve your audience well,
                    and they will enjoy and (hopefully) tell their friends about your
                    podcast.

                    Sincerely,
                    Harold J. Johnson
                    http://SomethingthatHappened.com

                    On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:22:18 -0500, Gregory Narain <greg@...> wrote:
                    > Hi all,
                    >
                    > Part of my daily tasks is writing to my SocialTwister.com blog. For
                    > anyone who hasn't visited before (ok everyone here), I tend to cover
                    > topics related to social technology. I've been pondering about
                    > Podcasting and its ramifications for the past couple of weeks and I've
                    > just completed a new post that may be of interest.
                    >
                    > The post talks about the challenges of "making it big" in Podcasting as
                    > more and more people enter the fray. One of the potential blockages for
                    > us all are the parties that are the most influential in the space. The
                    > post is definitely not an attempt to hang anyone, but it's a quick
                    > application of some network theory to our real-life Podcasting lives.
                    >
                    > If you're interested, you can read it here:
                    > http://socialtwister.com/archives/000440.html
                    >
                    > Best regards,
                    > Greg
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
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                    >
                    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
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                    >
                    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • Tim Bourquin
                    Absolutely right Harold. My brother and I recently did a podcast about all the ass-kissing that seems to be going on in Podcast Land these days. It s pretty
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 20, 2004
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                      Absolutely right Harold. My brother and I recently did a podcast
                      about all the ass-kissing that seems to be going on in Podcast Land
                      these days.

                      It's pretty ridiculous. People should stick to their show's content
                      and if it's interesting it will build listeners on its own.

                      Tim
                      Podcast Brothers

                      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Harold Johnson
                      <harold.johnson@g...> wrote:
                      > Interesting article. Here was my addition to the conversation:
                      >
                      > Adam is certainly the largest "hub" of this network, and anyone who
                      > can get linked to or mentioned by him will certainly benefit from his
                      > influence of audience. This whole topic is explored in depth in a
                      > wonderful book by Albert-Laszlo Barabasi, "Linked: How Everything Is
                      > Connected to Everything Else and What It Means".
                      >
                      > Yet anyone who attempts to infiltrate the Pod Squad by kissing up to
                      > the group risks doing so at the expense of good content. My advice:
                      > just podcast about what you love and know, not with the intent of
                      > attracting the attention of the Pod Squad. Serve your audience well,
                      > and they will enjoy and (hopefully) tell their friends about your
                      > podcast.
                      >
                      > Sincerely,
                      > Harold J. Johnson
                      > http://SomethingthatHappened.com
                      >
                      > On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:22:18 -0500, Gregory Narain <greg@f...> wrote:
                      > > Hi all,


                      > >
                      > > Part of my daily tasks is writing to my SocialTwister.com blog. For
                      > > anyone who hasn't visited before (ok everyone here), I tend to cover
                      > > topics related to social technology. I've been pondering about
                      > > Podcasting and its ramifications for the past couple of weeks and
                      I've
                      > > just completed a new post that may be of interest.
                      > >
                      > > The post talks about the challenges of "making it big" in
                      Podcasting as
                      > > more and more people enter the fray. One of the potential
                      blockages for
                      > > us all are the parties that are the most influential in the
                      space. The
                      > > post is definitely not an attempt to hang anyone, but it's a quick
                      > > application of some network theory to our real-life Podcasting lives.
                      > >
                      > > If you're interested, you can read it here:
                      > > http://socialtwister.com/archives/000440.html
                      > >
                      > > Best regards,
                      > > Greg
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > >
                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ________________________________
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • mglehman
                      As I replied to the blog entry that Harold pointed to: I m one of the pioneer podcasters (and one who is *not* a member of the Pod Squad) and I can tell you
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 20, 2004
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                        As I replied to the blog entry that Harold pointed to:

                        I'm one of the "pioneer" podcasters (and one who is *not* a member of
                        the Pod Squad) and I can tell you that early isn't any guarantee of
                        popular. I'm **NOT** complaining, I'm just observing that I don't
                        have thousands of listeners.

                        Adam told me at BloggerCon, after I'd thanked him for including me on
                        that list (as far as I can tell I was the #12 podcast listed) that
                        listing in that portion of the directory was a very political thing
                        and everyone wanted to be part of the "pioneers" group.

                        Now, having said all that, I do podcasting (and I now have four
                        different podcast feeds) because I *do* love it. It's allowed me to
                        combine the musician, producer, software developer, audio editor
                        and :) hambone :) parts of my personality into a single hobby
                        (passion). I've had more energy to do all the tasks involved since I
                        started podcasting than I had for years with any of them individually.

                        - Michael Lehman
                        http://www.softwareland.org
                        http://www.manicminute.net
                        http://www.inmikeslife.org
                        http://www.podtridgefamily.org



                        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Bourquin" <tncnewmedia@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Absolutely right Harold. My brother and I recently did a podcast
                        > about all the ass-kissing that seems to be going on in Podcast Land
                        > these days.
                        > ....
                      • Amy Gahran
                        Speaking as a podcaster-yet-to-be (currently just a listener), the whole pod squad concept doesn t particularly attract me, but I m not specifically opposed
                        Message 11 of 12 , Dec 20, 2004
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                          Speaking as a podcaster-yet-to-be (currently just a listener), the
                          whole "pod squad' concept doesn't particularly attract me, but I'm not
                          specifically opposed to it either.

                          Any media is going to develop its own celebrity culture and A-list
                          in-crowd. Right now, it seems the pod squad is filling that role in
                          podcasting. No biggie. It's a boon for people who like in-crowd stuff,
                          immaterial to those who don't care about it.

                          I do agree, though, that it's a mistake to shape your podcast content
                          specifically in order to try to gain entry to a particular A-list
                          in-crowd. When that happens, you're no longer an innovator, you're a
                          wannbe -- and wannabes are generally dull because they suppress their
                          own uniqueness in favor of fashion.

                          My 2 cents only,

                          - Amy Gahran
                        • Matt May
                          ... We used to call ass-kissing linking . I think this is worth some discussion. A lot of this is simple affinity: I do some stuff some others do, so I want
                          Message 12 of 12 , Dec 20, 2004
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                            On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:07:55 -0000, Tim Bourquin <tncnewmedia@...> wrote:
                            > Absolutely right Harold. My brother and I recently did a podcast
                            > about all the ass-kissing that seems to be going on in Podcast Land
                            > these days.

                            We used to call ass-kissing "linking".

                            I think this is worth some discussion. A lot of this is simple
                            affinity: I do some stuff some others do, so I want to give them some
                            juice. (btw, I suck at this, and apologize profusely to Indiefeed,
                            Insomniac Radio, Coverville, Down with the Chairman, SquaresCubed, and
                            anyone else I should be juicing but forget until seconds after the
                            euphoria of not fucking up another segment passes.)

                            If you don't like it, wait a while. We're at the point where
                            podcasters more or less still know each other by name. (And in the
                            case of Dave Slusher, by theme song.) Provided podcasting doesn't
                            implode on itself, this period will be over by March, and the Daily
                            Source Code plugs and all that will go from a feasible means of
                            getting lots more traffic to a new podcast, to a lottery in which the
                            winner gets slashdotted/boingboinged into a smoking crater. (Sidebar:
                            if this phenomenon comes to pass, I think that the verb form of
                            getting nailed by a link from/mention on DSC should be
                            "boioioioioioioinged".) That has nothing to do with Adam, and
                            everything to do with power laws.

                            Being in the Pod Squad doesn't permanently protect a podcaster from
                            reverting to the mean. It just means it'd take longer, if they're not
                            informative, entertaining, or active enough. As far as the Pod Squad
                            goes, if one of them sucks, they suck, and their audience will
                            discover it. Mostly, I sense that people right now are upset that they
                            may be denied the opportunity to show other people they suck. As it
                            were.

                            > It's pretty ridiculous. People should stick to their show's content
                            > and if it's interesting it will build listeners on its own.

                            People should focus on doing the best show they can, sure, but I think
                            they're going to get more listeners by banding together and talking
                            about each other's shows than by trying to stay out of the
                            name-dropping game entirely.

                            I think it's less likely that listener growth will happen organically
                            (or it will happen less frequently) as compared to blogs. Podcast
                            listeners (is "broadcatchers" the word this week? I missed the memo.)
                            need a nudge in order to take the time to download and listen to
                            something new. That's something we're just starting to wrap our heads
                            around, but we need to be aware that human bandwidth is limited in
                            this medium, and people aren't going to have 100 podcasts they follow
                            regularly. It's more like radio than blogging in that respect, and we
                            as a medium are going to have to start thinking like that. I've been
                            listening to podcasts for the last couple months now, and I already
                            sense the information overload turning my brain into some kind of
                            pudding.

                            -
                            m
                            Not plugging staccatomusic.org in this space at all
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