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Re: [podcasters] Podshow "Strategy Cast"

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  • Stephen Eley
    ... I think this is a very insightful point. In fact, you ve probably hit the nail right on the head about where the ideological division is. There are people
    Message 1 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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      On 5/2/05, Garrick VanBuren <garrick.vanburen@...> wrote:
      > Maybe it's that I'm coming at this from a blogger's perspective (you
      > make money because of blogging not with blogging) not a radio
      > producers perspective (the money's in advertising).

      I think this is a very insightful point. In fact, you've probably hit
      the nail right on the head about where the ideological division is.
      There are people who believe that podcasting is the new radio, and
      people who believe that podcasting is the new blogging. (If I were
      being flippant I'd call these the Curry School and the Winer School.)

      If you believe that podcasting is the new radio, then it makes sense
      to expect that there's money waiting to flow into it. It flowed into
      radio, and was essential to radio's growth because the resources
      required to deliver high-quality radio content cost money. It's a
      synergistic relationship.

      If you believe that podcasting is the new blogging, then there's no
      flow. There's practically no money in blogging, and blogging doesn't
      need it. You can meet almost any bandwidth need with a $10/month
      hosting provider, or use Blogspot if you don't mind giving up a little
      refinement. The only production equipment is a keyboard and monitor.
      Sure, the top five or so bloggers (Daily Kos, Instapundit, etc.) can
      make a few thousand a month via Blogads, but even the rest of the
      successful bloggers are getting lunch money at best. Making money
      from a blog tends to mean getting a book deal.

      Podcasting is certainly a hybrid, but I think it leans more toward the
      blogging side. Yes, it eats a lot more bandwidth than blogging, but
      there are lots of ways to get the bandwidth cheap or free. One *can*
      throw a lot of money into producing a podcast, but the most popular
      ones are being done with cheap equipment and free software. You're
      starting to see some sponsorships, but again, only in the top few
      podcasts. And hey, look! It looks like some people are starting to
      get book deals. >8->


      > Personally, I'd rather have my show in the former category. I see
      > Podshows in the latter.

      I only listened to part of that strategy cast (I have a very hard time
      listening to Adam Curry talk) so I'm not sure yet what they're
      planning. I heard one very good point: "We've *got* to make things
      easier for listeners" -- and one very questionable point: "The
      marketers are coming whether we want them to or not." The marketers
      took over radio because you need money to put up a radio station that
      can be heard farther than two blocks. But if podcasting is more like
      blogging? Commercial attempts at blogging have been laughable and
      irrelevant.

      Making things easier for listeners is important, but I don't see
      Podshow getting a lock on that. Anything they do could be done by
      anyone else. There *is* a role to be played in hooking top-tier
      podcasts up with sponsors, and if Podshow wants to be the new Blogads
      I say more power to them. That's an achievable goal, and I don't see
      anyone else trying to do it.

      But they ought to stop there. Blogads doesn't try to influence blog
      content; it doesn't aim to "become" blogging or represent the
      blogosphere. It simply sells ads and takes a small (20%) share of the
      revenue. It does its job well, is well-respected by the community,
      and I'm pretty sure it makes good money.

      Podshow could be that. It would be very easy to excel in that niche.
      But if they try to shape podcasting or represent podcasting to the
      world, they'll squander the goodwill of the community they depend on.
      And then they've got nothing. Curry is absolutely right that Podshow
      needs the best podcasts. But he's mistaken if he thinks that the best
      podcasts will ever *need* Podshow. He needs to back down from his
      grandstanding and approach the community he helped create with a bit
      more humility. Then he'll succeed.

      --
      Have Fun,
      - Steve Eley
      sfeley@...
    • PBCliberal
      ... Me too. I now suspect that the reason the Winer/Curry meeting was in Miami/South Beach was because the unseen hand was Ron Bloom s. Did anyone else who sat
      Message 2 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Elliott" <twelliott@y...> wrote:

        > When he and Adam broke up, I assumed it was Dave's blogger principles
        > at play, but now that the cat is out of the Podshow bag, it seems
        > otherwise. With this mornings' Sirus announcement, it seems that two
        > camps are emerging in podcastville: Podshow and everybody else.

        Me too. I now suspect that the reason the Winer/Curry meeting was in
        Miami/South Beach was because the unseen hand was Ron Bloom's. Did
        anyone else who sat through the nearly-two-hour epic opera have any
        trouble being told how content is king by people who not only couldn't
        get to the point but didn't see how "off" or "airline mode" on a cell
        phone is not only respectful to the audience but a great aid to
        staying on-topic?

        Remember that the upshot of that January Florida [?] meeting was the
        teapot tempest over Madge Weinstein not being a real lesbian? Maybe
        that was allegorical (and disclosable) for a debate raging over
        business styles and business models that was the real meat of the
        meeting, and the Weinstein flap was just the dessert.

        I zinged Dave for being anti-imagination. I guess I didn't have the
        whole picture.
      • Garrick VanBuren
        I agree. I m trying to get through the 2hrs right now - as much as I m against editing as fine-tuning, I m all for cutting out huge swaths of off-topic. An
        Message 3 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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          I agree. I'm trying to get through the 2hrs right now - as much as I'm
          against editing as fine-tuning, I'm all for cutting out huge swaths of
          off-topic.

          An hour and 15 minutes into it, the 'marketing is imminent and
          inevidable' attitude seems to have completely missed weblogging. Where
          marketers weren't needed to bring make it a word on everyone's tongue,
          where SixApart didn't succeed by creating a channel for advertisers.

          These things worked because publishing was easy and the content
          compelling. Not because it walked in the footstuff of the dying
          newspaper industry.


          On 5/2/05, PBCliberal <awksidental@...> wrote:
          > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Elliott" <twelliott@y...> wrote:
          >
          > > When he and Adam broke up, I assumed it was Dave's blogger principles
          > > at play, but now that the cat is out of the Podshow bag, it seems
          > > otherwise. With this mornings' Sirus announcement, it seems that two
          > > camps are emerging in podcastville: Podshow and everybody else.
          >
          > Me too. I now suspect that the reason the Winer/Curry meeting was in
          > Miami/South Beach was because the unseen hand was Ron Bloom's. Did
          > anyone else who sat through the nearly-two-hour epic opera have any
          > trouble being told how content is king by people who not only couldn't
          > get to the point but didn't see how "off" or "airline mode" on a cell
          > phone is not only respectful to the audience but a great aid to
          > staying on-topic?
          >
          > Remember that the upshot of that January Florida [?] meeting was the
          > teapot tempest over Madge Weinstein not being a real lesbian? Maybe
          > that was allegorical (and disclosable) for a debate raging over
          > business styles and business models that was the real meat of the
          > meeting, and the Weinstein flap was just the dessert.
          >
          > I zinged Dave for being anti-imagination. I guess I didn't have the
          > whole picture.
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          Garrick Van Buren
          ----------------------------------------------------
          garrick.vanburen@...
          ph: 612 325 9110
          -----------------------------------------------------
          First Crack Podcast
          http://garrickvanburen.com/firstcrack/

          WishRSS - the Feed of Dreams
          http://garrickvanburen.com/wishrss/

          gFeed - all my writing in one place
          http://garrickvanburen.com/gfeed/
        • Harold Johnson
          Podcasting is the new *podcasting*. Nothing like this has presented itself in this particular way before. It s a two-way media in a variety of ways,
          Message 4 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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            Podcasting is the new *podcasting*. Nothing like this has presented
            itself in this particular way before. It's a two-way media in a
            variety of ways, interactive to some extent and surely more so in the
            near future as tools develop to facilitate the process of producing
            podcasts.

            We tend to compare it to what we know, radio and blogging. Yet it's
            really both of these and then neither. It's what it is, and we're
            still figuring that out. Some will try to take it to traditional
            media formats, such as radio, and that's fine. Meanwhile podcasting
            will change, and mutate and branch out in various ways, and perhaps
            some of these branches won't make sense for broadcast of satellite
            radio.

            It's fun to hear ourselves on terrestrial (traditional) radio,
            especially if we grew up in an analog era, and I wouldn't mind my
            mousy voice being transmitted via radiowaves. Yet I'm more excited
            about the possibilities that are yet to come; I can't wait for *the
            iPod of Internet radio* to arrive, whenever that may be - a portable
            device that can recieve podcasts or other digital audio from
            *anywhere*, and *without hassle*.

            Who will create this device? Will Apple's lightning strike again, or
            will it be a smaller, Palm-like company? Will it be a group of
            podcasting engineers, pooling their resources together to "change the
            world"? Stay tuned.

            Harold J. Johnson
            http://audioblogs.info

            On 5/2/05, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
            > On 5/2/05, Garrick VanBuren <garrick.vanburen@...> wrote:
            > > Maybe it's that I'm coming at this from a blogger's perspective (you
            > > make money because of blogging not with blogging) not a radio
            > > producers perspective (the money's in advertising).
            >
            > I think this is a very insightful point. In fact, you've probably hit
            > the nail right on the head about where the ideological division is.
            > There are people who believe that podcasting is the new radio, and
            > people who believe that podcasting is the new blogging. (If I were
            > being flippant I'd call these the Curry School and the Winer School.)
            >
            > If you believe that podcasting is the new radio, then it makes sense
            > to expect that there's money waiting to flow into it. It flowed into
            > radio, and was essential to radio's growth because the resources
            > required to deliver high-quality radio content cost money. It's a
            > synergistic relationship.
            >
            > If you believe that podcasting is the new blogging, then there's no
            > flow. There's practically no money in blogging, and blogging doesn't
            > need it. You can meet almost any bandwidth need with a $10/month
            > hosting provider, or use Blogspot if you don't mind giving up a little
            > refinement. The only production equipment is a keyboard and monitor.
            > Sure, the top five or so bloggers (Daily Kos, Instapundit, etc.) can
            > make a few thousand a month via Blogads, but even the rest of the
            > successful bloggers are getting lunch money at best. Making money
            > from a blog tends to mean getting a book deal.
            >
            > Podcasting is certainly a hybrid, but I think it leans more toward the
            > blogging side. Yes, it eats a lot more bandwidth than blogging, but
            > there are lots of ways to get the bandwidth cheap or free. One *can*
            > throw a lot of money into producing a podcast, but the most popular
            > ones are being done with cheap equipment and free software. You're
            > starting to see some sponsorships, but again, only in the top few
            > podcasts. And hey, look! It looks like some people are starting to
            > get book deals. >8->
            >
            >
            > > Personally, I'd rather have my show in the former category. I see
            > > Podshows in the latter.
            >
            > I only listened to part of that strategy cast (I have a very hard time
            > listening to Adam Curry talk) so I'm not sure yet what they're
            > planning. I heard one very good point: "We've *got* to make things
            > easier for listeners" -- and one very questionable point: "The
            > marketers are coming whether we want them to or not." The marketers
            > took over radio because you need money to put up a radio station that
            > can be heard farther than two blocks. But if podcasting is more like
            > blogging? Commercial attempts at blogging have been laughable and
            > irrelevant.
            >
            > Making things easier for listeners is important, but I don't see
            > Podshow getting a lock on that. Anything they do could be done by
            > anyone else. There *is* a role to be played in hooking top-tier
            > podcasts up with sponsors, and if Podshow wants to be the new Blogads
            > I say more power to them. That's an achievable goal, and I don't see
            > anyone else trying to do it.
            >
            > But they ought to stop there. Blogads doesn't try to influence blog
            > content; it doesn't aim to "become" blogging or represent the
            > blogosphere. It simply sells ads and takes a small (20%) share of the
            > revenue. It does its job well, is well-respected by the community,
            > and I'm pretty sure it makes good money.
            >
            > Podshow could be that. It would be very easy to excel in that niche.
            > But if they try to shape podcasting or represent podcasting to the
            > world, they'll squander the goodwill of the community they depend on.
            > And then they've got nothing. Curry is absolutely right that Podshow
            > needs the best podcasts. But he's mistaken if he thinks that the best
            > podcasts will ever *need* Podshow. He needs to back down from his
            > grandstanding and approach the community he helped create with a bit
            > more humility. Then he'll succeed.
            >
            > --
            > Have Fun,
            > - Steve Eley
            > sfeley@...
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • Stephen Eley
            ... Following that tangent: From a practical perspective, there s no reason why a Treo or any other smartphone couldn t do this. There s already a third-party
            Message 5 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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              On 5/2/05, Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@...> wrote:
              >
              > It's fun to hear ourselves on terrestrial (traditional) radio,
              > especially if we grew up in an analog era, and I wouldn't mind my
              > mousy voice being transmitted via radiowaves. Yet I'm more excited
              > about the possibilities that are yet to come; I can't wait for *the
              > iPod of Internet radio* to arrive, whenever that may be - a portable
              > device that can recieve podcasts or other digital audio from
              > *anywhere*, and *without hassle*.

              Following that tangent: From a practical perspective, there's no
              reason why a Treo or any other smartphone couldn't do this. There's
              already a third-party MP3 player than can stream Shoutcast-style
              Internet radio to the Treo; it shouldn't be that hard to extend it to
              catch RSS feeds as well.

              In fact I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been done yet. (I've thought
              very briefly about writing it myself, but I've never tried programming
              for the Palm, and anyway I've got too many projects already.)

              So if anyone's looking for a fun bit of programming: there's your
              shot. Write a good Treo podcatcher, and I'll buy one. Until then
              I'll keep listening on my iPod, and save the Treo for Web surfing and
              phone calls.

              --
              Have Fun,
              - Steve Eley
              sfeley@...
            • Russell S. Holliman
              I have tested two programs on my Treo for receiving podcasts. They worked, but not as automatically as a desktop client. And until EV-DO is prevalent in my
              Message 6 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                I have tested two programs on my Treo for receiving podcasts. They
                worked, but not as "automatically" as a desktop client. And until
                EV-DO is prevalent in my market, its really not practical. But it is
                there...

                And the 'third party' software you mentioned does more than just
                stream shoutcast-type links... it will stream an MP3 link, such as a
                podcast. I've played with it and it works well, provided the source
                file is encoded at a low enough bit rate to stream well over the slow
                networks... once again, the only thing holding back the Treo is the
                connection.

                On 5/2/05, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                > On 5/2/05, Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > It's fun to hear ourselves on terrestrial (traditional) radio,
                > > especially if we grew up in an analog era, and I wouldn't mind my
                > > mousy voice being transmitted via radiowaves. Yet I'm more excited
                > > about the possibilities that are yet to come; I can't wait for *the
                > > iPod of Internet radio* to arrive, whenever that may be - a portable
                > > device that can recieve podcasts or other digital audio from
                > > *anywhere*, and *without hassle*.
                >
                > Following that tangent: From a practical perspective, there's no
                > reason why a Treo or any other smartphone couldn't do this. There's
                > already a third-party MP3 player than can stream Shoutcast-style
                > Internet radio to the Treo; it shouldn't be that hard to extend it to
                > catch RSS feeds as well.
                >
                > In fact I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been done yet. (I've thought
                > very briefly about writing it myself, but I've never tried programming
                > for the Palm, and anyway I've got too many projects already.)
                >
                > So if anyone's looking for a fun bit of programming: there's your
                > shot. Write a good Treo podcatcher, and I'll buy one. Until then
                > I'll keep listening on my iPod, and save the Treo for Web surfing and
                > phone calls.
                >
                > --
                > Have Fun,
                > - Steve Eley
                > sfeley@...
                >
                > ________________________________
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
                >
                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              • Matt May
                ... This won t help Treo users, but my Pocket PC can podcatch using Egress: http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=12324 I can set it to download new
                Message 7 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                  On 5/2/05, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                  > Following that tangent: From a practical perspective, there's no
                  > reason why a Treo or any other smartphone couldn't do this. There's
                  > already a third-party MP3 player than can stream Shoutcast-style
                  > Internet radio to the Treo; it shouldn't be that hard to extend it to
                  > catch RSS feeds as well.

                  This won't help Treo users, but my Pocket PC can podcatch using Egress:

                  http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=12324

                  I can set it to download new podcasts over 802.11b directly to my
                  Compact Flash card. Which I may end up doing later this month while
                  I'm on vacation, so I can leave the laptop behind.

                  But I agree with the others that the bandwidth just isn't there yet.
                  3G is only rolled out in a few cities, and is still really expensive
                  ($80/mo). Once that comes down to a nice $20 price point, anybody will
                  be able to do this, or even narrowcast their own radio station from
                  home. All of the components, except the ubiquitous broadband, are
                  there. There are even companies like Avvenu and Orb Networks, that are
                  already working on enabling technologies.

                  -
                  m
                • James W. Anderson
                  There s a site called http://www.penguinradio.com/ that is working on a webcast-to-phone application, but I m not sure even from the site just what it is.
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                    There's a site called http://www.penguinradio.com/ that is working on a
                    webcast-to-phone application, but I'm not sure even from the site just
                    what it is.

                    Anyone have an idea what they are up to?

                    And also Motorola's forthcoming 'iRadio'. Google for it, you'll find a
                    media ripper product, but also a huge load of references to a press
                    release in mid-February about that.

                    There are issues to be resolved, such as spotty cell tower coverage in
                    some parts of the rural areas. Look at your wireless providers' maps
                    that came with your service, or on their websites, to see what I mean.

                    The matter of IP to radio device or whatever has been discussed on the
                    net for years, it's not quite here yet, but the above offers some
                    possibilities.
                  • Harold Johnson
                    We discuss a bit of these issues in my Internet Radio Lovers group here on Yahoo!Groups. I ve been waiting for a device like the iRadio for years, and I have
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                      We discuss a bit of these issues in my Internet Radio Lovers group
                      here on Yahoo!Groups. I've been waiting for a device like the iRadio
                      for years, and I have high hopes for it. Still, I'm not certain it
                      will be able to download or stream podcasts; unless I'm mistaken,
                      it'll going to have presets or something like that, similar to iTunes'
                      radio stations.

                      Harold J.
                      audioblogs.info

                      On 5/2/05, James W. Anderson <genealogy248@...> wrote:
                      > There's a site called http://www.penguinradio.com/ that is working on a
                      > webcast-to-phone application, but I'm not sure even from the site just
                      > what it is.
                      >
                      > Anyone have an idea what they are up to?
                      >
                      > And also Motorola's forthcoming 'iRadio'. Google for it, you'll find a
                      > media ripper product, but also a huge load of references to a press
                      > release in mid-February about that.
                      >
                      > There are issues to be resolved, such as spotty cell tower coverage in
                      > some parts of the rural areas. Look at your wireless providers' maps
                      > that came with your service, or on their websites, to see what I mean.
                      >
                      > The matter of IP to radio device or whatever has been discussed on the
                      > net for years, it's not quite here yet, but the above offers some
                      > possibilities.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    • James W. Anderson
                      ... Where s your group? Could not find it in the search feature on Yahoo Groups.
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@g...>
                        wrote:
                        > We discuss a bit of these issues in my Internet Radio Lovers group
                        > here on Yahoo!Groups. I've been waiting for a device like the iRadio
                        > for years, and I have high hopes for it. Still, I'm not certain it
                        > will be able to download or stream podcasts; unless I'm mistaken,
                        > it'll going to have presets or something like that, similar to iTunes'
                        > radio stations.
                        >
                        > Harold J.
                        > audioblogs.info

                        Where's your group? Could not find it in the search feature on Yahoo
                        Groups.
                      • Harold Johnson
                        It wouldn t come up, huh? Here s the URL then: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/internetradiolovers Harold
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                          It wouldn't come up, huh? Here's the URL then:
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/internetradiolovers

                          Harold

                          On 5/2/05, James W. Anderson <genealogy248@...> wrote:
                          > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@g...>
                          > wrote:
                          > > We discuss a bit of these issues in my Internet Radio Lovers group
                          > > here on Yahoo!Groups. I've been waiting for a device like the iRadio
                          > > for years, and I have high hopes for it. Still, I'm not certain it
                          > > will be able to download or stream podcasts; unless I'm mistaken,
                          > > it'll going to have presets or something like that, similar to iTunes'
                          > > radio stations.
                          > >
                          > > Harold J.
                          > > audioblogs.info
                          >
                          > Where's your group? Could not find it in the search feature on Yahoo
                          > Groups.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/podcasters/
                          >
                          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > podcasters-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        • Dennis A. Amith
                          ... Well, there is one way to make things interesting. Dave, go XM! Happy birthday Dave! - daa
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                            On 5/2/05 7:05 AM, "Tim Elliott" <twelliott@...> wrote:


                            > When he and Adam broke up, I assumed it was Dave's blogger principles
                            > at play, but now that the cat is out of the Podshow bag, it seems
                            > otherwise. With this mornings' Sirus announcement, it seems that two
                            > camps are emerging in podcastville: Podshow and everybody else.
                            >
                            > BTW, Happy Birthday, Dave!
                            > --
                            > Tim

                            Well, there is one way to make things interesting. Dave, go XM!

                            Happy birthday Dave!

                            - daa
                          • bluggster
                            ... go! tradesushi.com !! ... aieeee!!! we re about to do our bluggcast , where we re going to talk quite a bit about all this sirius biznizz
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 2, 2005
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                              > Well, there is one way to make things interesting. Dave, go XM!
                              >

                              go! tradesushi.com !!

                              :)
                              aieeee!!!


                              we're about to do our 'bluggcast', where we're going to talk quite a
                              bit about all this sirius biznizz

                              http://blugg.com/cast :)
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