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Re: [podcasters] Podcasting Trade Shows

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  • Douglas E. Welch
    I am a big fan of regionally organized shows like PodCampAZ and a MediaCampLA I am trying to get
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 1, 2011
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      I am a big fan of regionally organized shows like
      PodCampAZ<http://podcampaz.org/>and a
      MediaCampLA <http://mediacampla.wordpress.com/> I am trying to get
      organized here in Los Angeles.

      National shows are great, but the costs involved seemingly haven't
      pencilled out over the last few years. I am also a big fan of unconference
      style shows, as there is often a large amount of local knowledge to be
      shared among the attendees. That said, I also try to invite in people who I
      think have something interesting to say.

      I do wish that these types of unconferences could be kept free to attend,
      unlike the larger Podcamps such as Boston and Philadelphia. Admission fees,
      on top of an y travel costs, can quickly rule out the attendance of many
      people.

      Douglas


      --
      New eBook: Cultivating Your Career
      Reputations<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006C2C60C/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=thewelchwritecom&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B006C2C60C&adid=0RKXS6MBK4SKY8C9W0W4&>by
      Douglas E. Welch
      Start your career right or make it even better!

      Kindle eBook now available - Read on any device




      On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Ken Kennedy Lloyd <kkliveradio@...>wrote:

      > **
      >
      >
      > Great idea it would draw us from Canada as well. But middle ground would
      > be Chicago or Nashville
      >
      >
      > Ken aka DK
      > http://dkwatercooler.blogspot.com
      > Twitter watercoolerDKhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Double-K/141526438926
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Michael Sitarzewski <msitarzewski@...>
      > To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: Todd Cochrane <geeknews@...>
      > Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 12:39:11 PM
      > Subject: Re: [podcasters] Podcasting Trade Shows
      >
      >
      > Is there enough demand to put something together on our own?
      >
      > I think Todd Cochrane has a super valid concept with the awards... and it
      > could be expanded to solve this need, too!
      >
      > Here's a pitch:
      >
      > A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
      > Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the
      > weekend.
      > After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster,
      > advertiser, service provider, whatever).
      > Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing
      > sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
      > How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
      > The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards,
      > stage, tinsel, and all. :)
      >
      > It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country
      > (right here in Denver!).
      >
      > What do you think? I bet we could dig up great sponsors for it!
      >
      > --
      > Michael Sitarzewski
      > CEO, Callisto.fm, Inc.
      > http://callisto.fm
      > Content engagement analytics for publishers and advertisers in a digital
      > world.
      >
      > On Dec 1, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Nobilis Reed wrote:
      >
      > > Blogworld has some major detractors. Use with caution.
      > >
      > > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:37 AM, David Jackson <jammindave@...>
      > wrote:
      > > > Blogworld combined with new media expo. They meet twice a year. Google
      > > > "podcamp" these are local, casual "unconferences." Also check out
      > > > meeetup.com for potential networking opportunities.
      > > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > Stories that don't stop at the bedroom door - or the castle gate - or
      > > the airlock.
      > > http://www.nobiliserotica.com
      > > ----------------------------------
      > > "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and
      > > fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy
      > > to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."
      > > -- Justice Louis Brandeis
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Sitarzewski
      Regional events (like Podcamp) are great! We sponsor the Boulder and Denver Podcamps, and participate diligently both days. The last Denver event we even
      Message 2 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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        Regional events (like Podcamp) are great! We sponsor the Boulder and Denver Podcamps, and participate diligently both days. The last Denver event we even recorded a couple of shows to demonstrate how the process works (see: http://boulderopenpodcast.com/ )

        It sounds like the demand is for a once a year gathering of all of the people that create and attend the regional events. :)

        Thoughts?

        --
        Michael Sitarzewski
        CEO, Callisto.fm, Inc.
        http://www.callisto.fm
        Content engagement analytics for publishers and advertisers in a digital world.



        On Dec 1, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Douglas E. Welch wrote:

        > I am a big fan of regionally organized shows like
        > PodCampAZ<http://podcampaz.org/>and a
        > MediaCampLA <http://mediacampla.wordpress.com/> I am trying to get
        > organized here in Los Angeles.
        >
        > National shows are great, but the costs involved seemingly haven't
        > pencilled out over the last few years. I am also a big fan of unconference
        > style shows, as there is often a large amount of local knowledge to be
        > shared among the attendees. That said, I also try to invite in people who I
        > think have something interesting to say.
        >
        > I do wish that these types of unconferences could be kept free to attend,
        > unlike the larger Podcamps such as Boston and Philadelphia. Admission fees,
        > on top of an y travel costs, can quickly rule out the attendance of many
        > people.
        >
        > Douglas
        >
        >
        > --
        > New eBook: Cultivating Your Career
        > Reputations<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006C2C60C/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=thewelchwritecom&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B006C2C60C&adid=0RKXS6MBK4SKY8C9W0W4&>by
        > Douglas E. Welch
        > Start your career right or make it even better!
        >
        > Kindle eBook now available - Read on any device
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Ken Kennedy Lloyd <kkliveradio@...>wrote:
        >
        >> **
        >>
        >>
        >> Great idea it would draw us from Canada as well. But middle ground would
        >> be Chicago or Nashville
        >>
        >>
        >> Ken aka DK
        >> http://dkwatercooler.blogspot.com
        >> Twitter watercoolerDKhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Double-K/141526438926
        >>
        >> ________________________________
        >> From: Michael Sitarzewski <msitarzewski@...>
        >> To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        >> Cc: Todd Cochrane <geeknews@...>
        >> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 12:39:11 PM
        >> Subject: Re: [podcasters] Podcasting Trade Shows
        >>
        >>
        >> Is there enough demand to put something together on our own?
        >>
        >> I think Todd Cochrane has a super valid concept with the awards... and it
        >> could be expanded to solve this need, too!
        >>
        >> Here's a pitch:
        >>
        >> A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
        >> Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the
        >> weekend.
        >> After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster,
        >> advertiser, service provider, whatever).
        >> Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing
        >> sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
        >> How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
        >> The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards,
        >> stage, tinsel, and all. :)
        >>
        >> It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country
        >> (right here in Denver!).
        >>
        >> What do you think? I bet we could dig up great sponsors for it!
        >>
        >> --
        >> Michael Sitarzewski
        >> CEO, Callisto.fm, Inc.
        >> http://callisto.fm
        >> Content engagement analytics for publishers and advertisers in a digital
        >> world.
        >>
        >> On Dec 1, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Nobilis Reed wrote:
        >>
        >>> Blogworld has some major detractors. Use with caution.
        >>>
        >>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:37 AM, David Jackson <jammindave@...>
        >> wrote:
        >>>> Blogworld combined with new media expo. They meet twice a year. Google
        >>>> "podcamp" these are local, casual "unconferences." Also check out
        >>>> meeetup.com for potential networking opportunities.
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>> --
        >>> Stories that don't stop at the bedroom door - or the castle gate - or
        >>> the airlock.
        >>> http://www.nobiliserotica.com
        >>> ----------------------------------
        >>> "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and
        >>> fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy
        >>> to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."
        >>> -- Justice Louis Brandeis
        >>>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> YahooGroups Podcasters Links
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • the Encaffeinated ONE
        You might also consider looking for podcasting tracks at larger conventions. Balticon has a pretty substantial podcasting-based track, as does Dragon*Con. -MK
        Message 3 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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          You might also consider looking for podcasting tracks at larger
          conventions. Balticon has a pretty substantial podcasting-based track,
          as does Dragon*Con.

          -MK

          On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 12:20 PM, Michael Sitarzewski
          <msitarzewski@...> wrote:
          > Regional events (like Podcamp) are great! We sponsor the Boulder and Denver Podcamps, and participate diligently both days. The last Denver event we even recorded a couple of shows to demonstrate how the process works (see: http://boulderopenpodcast.com/ )
          >
          > It sounds like the demand is for a once a year gathering of all of the people that create and attend the regional events. :)
          >
          > Thoughts?
          >
          > --
          > Michael Sitarzewski
          > CEO, Callisto.fm, Inc.
          > http://www.callisto.fm
          > Content engagement analytics for publishers and advertisers in a digital world.
          >
          >
          >
          > On Dec 1, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Douglas E. Welch wrote:
          >
          >> I am a big fan of regionally organized shows like
          >> PodCampAZ<http://podcampaz.org/>and a
          >> MediaCampLA <http://mediacampla.wordpress.com/> I am trying to get
          >> organized here in Los Angeles.
          >>
          >> National shows are great, but the costs involved seemingly haven't
          >> pencilled out over the last few years. I am also a big fan of unconference
          >> style shows, as there is often a large amount of local knowledge to be
          >> shared among the attendees. That said, I also try to invite in people who I
          >> think have something interesting to say.
          >>
          >> I do wish that these types of unconferences could be kept free to attend,
          >> unlike the larger Podcamps such as Boston and Philadelphia. Admission fees,
          >> on top of an y travel costs, can quickly rule out the attendance of many
          >> people.
          >>
          >> Douglas
          >>
          >>
          >> --
          >> New eBook: Cultivating Your Career
          >> Reputations<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006C2C60C/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=thewelchwritecom&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B006C2C60C&adid=0RKXS6MBK4SKY8C9W0W4&>by
          >> Douglas E. Welch
          >> Start your career right or make it even better!
          >>
          >> Kindle eBook now available - Read on any device
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Ken Kennedy Lloyd <kkliveradio@...>wrote:
          >>
          >>> **
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Great idea it would draw us from Canada as well.  But middle ground would
          >>> be Chicago or Nashville
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Ken aka DK
          >>> http://dkwatercooler.blogspot.com
          >>> Twitter  watercoolerDKhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Double-K/141526438926
          >>>
          >>> ________________________________
          >>> From: Michael Sitarzewski <msitarzewski@...>
          >>> To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
          >>> Cc: Todd Cochrane <geeknews@...>
          >>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2011 12:39:11 PM
          >>> Subject: Re: [podcasters] Podcasting Trade Shows
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> Is there enough demand to put something together on our own?
          >>>
          >>> I think Todd Cochrane has a super valid concept with the awards... and it
          >>> could be expanded to solve this need, too!
          >>>
          >>> Here's a pitch:
          >>>
          >>> A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
          >>> Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the
          >>> weekend.
          >>> After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster,
          >>> advertiser, service provider, whatever).
          >>> Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing
          >>> sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
          >>>    How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
          >>> The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards,
          >>> stage, tinsel, and all. :)
          >>>
          >>> It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country
          >>> (right here in Denver!).
          >>>
          >>> What do you think? I bet we could dig up great sponsors for it!
          >>>
          >>> --
          >>> Michael Sitarzewski
          >>> CEO, Callisto.fm, Inc.
          >>> http://callisto.fm
          >>> Content engagement analytics for publishers and advertisers in a digital
          >>> world.
          >>>
          >>> On Dec 1, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Nobilis Reed wrote:
          >>>
          >>>> Blogworld has some major detractors. Use with caution.
          >>>>
          >>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 11:37 AM, David Jackson <jammindave@...>
          >>> wrote:
          >>>>> Blogworld combined with new media expo. They meet twice a year. Google
          >>>>> "podcamp" these are local, casual "unconferences." Also check out
          >>>>> meeetup.com for potential networking opportunities.
          >>>>>
          >>>>
          >>>> --
          >>>> Stories that don't stop at the bedroom door - or the castle gate - or
          >>>> the airlock.
          >>>> http://www.nobiliserotica.com
          >>>> ----------------------------------
          >>>> "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and
          >>>> fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy
          >>>> to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."
          >>>> -- Justice Louis Brandeis
          >>>>
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>>
          >>> YahooGroups Podcasters Links
          >>>
          >>> ------------------------------------
          >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> YahooGroups Podcasters Links
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



          --
          -Mark "the Encaffeinated ONE"
        • Stephen Eley
          ... That s more or less what the Podcast Expo used to be. Then it became the Podcast and New Media Expo. Then it became the New Media Expo. Then it merged
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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            On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Michael Sitarzewski wrote:
            >
            > Here's a pitch:
            >
            > A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
            > Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the weekend.
            > After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster, advertiser, service provider, whatever).
            > Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
            > How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
            > The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards, stage, tinsel, and all. :)
            >
            > It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country (right here in Denver!).

            That's more or less what the Podcast Expo used to be.

            Then it became the Podcast and New Media Expo. Then it became the New Media Expo. Then it merged with Blogworld.

            The catch is this: the vast majority of podcasters are doing it for fun and can't call it a business. They have no real revenue from it, and no business rationale to justify their cost for going to a "trade show." Actual trade shows in actual profit-making industries tend to be priced for people who are expensing it to their companies. (Hundreds of dollars to attend, sometimes over a thousand, plus travel.) Sponsors can only justify sponsoring it if the marketing exposure would hit enough new customers with enough purchasing power that they have a chance of making back the cost.

            Tim Bourquin took exactly this approach for the Expo. To be fair, he did it well. The best part of _any_ convention is the socializing, and podcasters know how to party. I went in 2006 and 2007 and had a lot of fun. (Especially in 2007 when I was mostly there to get laid. *cough*) The energy of the podcast community in those first few years was very strong.

            But if you're calling it a "business" event, and you succeed, then over time what you're going to get is more and more people who think of it as a business. You stop attracting the fun creative types who are doing what they do because they love it; and you get more and more "business" attendees:

            Well-intentioned but naïve souls who think that their Buffy/Battlestar Galactica crossover fanfiction podcast could make $100,000 a year if only they could learn the right magic formula to "monetize" it, or if they "network" a little more. (Most of the presentations in later years seemed to be oriented toward this crowd.)
            Corporate marketing flacks who got some mandate that "new media" is part of their job now and they need to find out what podcasting is. They don't give a crap about community, they just want to know which vendor in the exhibit hall is likeliest to sell them the magic button that will keep them from having to learn anything technical.
            "New media" consultants and other "experts" who are there in principle to schmooze and sell things to groups #1 and #2, but from what I can tell spend most of their time schmoozing to each other and congratulating themselves on their brilliance.

            None of these people are very fun. ...Well. The #1 people are, sometimes, if you can talk to them about that Spike/Baltar scene before they forget what their podcast was about and start thinking it's about the money. The Expo died (or got eaten) because there wasn't enough money on the business side of podcasting to keep people talking about the business year after year, and in the meantime they stopped trying to appeal to the people who were doing it for fun.

            If you want to avoid this? Don't call it a trade show. Call it a con or a party or a shindig. Take a cue from the science fiction conventions, perhaps. Have your educational panels, have some vendors, but make it clear this is an event for people to enjoy themselves and to meet people who are doing similar things and enjoying themselves too. And price getting in at less than $100, and make sure travel and lodgings are reasonably cheap. Cover your costs, but don't try to make a business off of it.

            Is there enough energy left in podcasting to make a popular and fun event out of that? Dunno. I'm no longer the right person to ask. The first Podcastercon (organized by Mur and a few others in Raleigh, NC) was fun like this. The Podcamps have been fun. I don't know what's still going on. But if it can be done, I believe that would be the way to do it.


            Have Fun,
            Steve Eley



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Eley
            ... I m a dope. I should add to this that a few science fiction conventions do try to bring in podcasters, and a couple have solid podcast or new media tracks
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
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              On Dec 2, 2011, at 1:41 PM, Stephen Eley wrote:
              >
              > If you want to avoid this? Don't call it a trade show. Call it a con or a party or a shindig. Take a cue from the science fiction conventions, perhaps.

              I'm a dope. I should add to this that a few science fiction conventions do try to bring in podcasters, and a couple have solid podcast or new media tracks that meet most of what you said you'd like to have. (Good teaching panels, etc.) The ones I've been to:

              Dragon*Con. This is the biggest convention of any kind in the eastern US, and Derek and Swoopy of the Skepticality podcast have been organizing the podcast track for years. The Parsec Awards for SF podcasting are also given out here. Despite living in Atlanta and despite considering those two friends, I actually like D*C's podcast track the least. I'm a little hesitant to go into much detail on why in public, but I think it's reasonable to say that the energy of the scheduled events is different from the others. A lot of great people come in for it, though, and you can meet some awesome podcasters at the parties and at the bar meetups.

              Penguicon. Very tech-geeky con. Much fun. Been once. I should go again.

              Balticon. This is the one that completely gets it right. Paul Fischer organizes the new media track every year, and brings in some of the best and most fun people in the community. The scheduled stuff is great -- a solid mix of education and entertainment -- but the "We're here to enjoy ourselves" vibe carries throughout. Even if you're not a science fiction geek, you could likely go to Balticon and hang out with the podcasters and feel like you've been welcomed into a great community.

              Have Fun,
              Steve Eley



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nobilis Reed
              Balticon is still fun.  If you re podcasting fiction, and you re not there... Well, you re not _there._ ... -- Stories that don t stop at the bedroom door -
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Balticon is still fun.  If you're podcasting fiction, and you're not there...

                Well, you're not _there._

                On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                >
                > If you want to avoid this? Don't call it a trade show. Call it a con or a party or a shindig. Take a cue from the science fiction conventions, perhaps. Have your educational panels, have some vendors, but make it clear this is an event for people to enjoy themselves and to meet people who are doing similar things and enjoying themselves too. And price getting in at less than $100, and make sure travel and lodgings are reasonably cheap. Cover your costs, but don't try to make a business off of it.




                --
                Stories that don't stop at the bedroom door - or the castle gate - or
                the airlock.
                http://www.nobiliserotica.com
                ----------------------------------
                "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and
                fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy
                to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."
                -- Justice Louis Brandeis
              • Michael Sitarzewski
                It s a fine line, isn t it? Is it fun, or is it business? You re right, most podcasters have the dream of making a six figure income from their hobby.
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  It's a fine line, isn't it? Is it fun, or is it business?

                  You're right, most podcasters have the dream of making a six figure income from their hobby. Nothing's to say it's impossible, it just takes a lot of work. Work and hobby for most aren't the same thing yet. :)

                  I never had the pleasure of attending the earlier events, I was just thinking about what I'd like to see.

                  Michael Sitarzewski
                  http://friendmichael.com




                  On Dec 2, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Stephen Eley wrote:

                  > On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Michael Sitarzewski wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here's a pitch:
                  > >
                  > > A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
                  > > Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the weekend.
                  > > After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster, advertiser, service provider, whatever).
                  > > Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
                  > > How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
                  > > The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards, stage, tinsel, and all. :)
                  > >
                  > > It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country (right here in Denver!).
                  >
                  > That's more or less what the Podcast Expo used to be.
                  >
                  > Then it became the Podcast and New Media Expo. Then it became the New Media Expo. Then it merged with Blogworld.
                  >
                  > The catch is this: the vast majority of podcasters are doing it for fun and can't call it a business. They have no real revenue from it, and no business rationale to justify their cost for going to a "trade show." Actual trade shows in actual profit-making industries tend to be priced for people who are expensing it to their companies. (Hundreds of dollars to attend, sometimes over a thousand, plus travel.) Sponsors can only justify sponsoring it if the marketing exposure would hit enough new customers with enough purchasing power that they have a chance of making back the cost.
                  >
                  > Tim Bourquin took exactly this approach for the Expo. To be fair, he did it well. The best part of _any_ convention is the socializing, and podcasters know how to party. I went in 2006 and 2007 and had a lot of fun. (Especially in 2007 when I was mostly there to get laid. *cough*) The energy of the podcast community in those first few years was very strong.
                  >
                  > But if you're calling it a "business" event, and you succeed, then over time what you're going to get is more and more people who think of it as a business. You stop attracting the fun creative types who are doing what they do because they love it; and you get more and more "business" attendees:
                  >
                  > Well-intentioned but na�ve souls who think that their Buffy/Battlestar Galactica crossover fanfiction podcast could make $100,000 a year if only they could learn the right magic formula to "monetize" it, or if they "network" a little more. (Most of the presentations in later years seemed to be oriented toward this crowd.)
                  > Corporate marketing flacks who got some mandate that "new media" is part of their job now and they need to find out what podcasting is. They don't give a crap about community, they just want to know which vendor in the exhibit hall is likeliest to sell them the magic button that will keep them from having to learn anything technical.
                  > "New media" consultants and other "experts" who are there in principle to schmooze and sell things to groups #1 and #2, but from what I can tell spend most of their time schmoozing to each other and congratulating themselves on their brilliance.
                  >
                  > None of these people are very fun. ...Well. The #1 people are, sometimes, if you can talk to them about that Spike/Baltar scene before they forget what their podcast was about and start thinking it's about the money. The Expo died (or got eaten) because there wasn't enough money on the business side of podcasting to keep people talking about the business year after year, and in the meantime they stopped trying to appeal to the people who were doing it for fun.
                  >
                  > If you want to avoid this? Don't call it a trade show. Call it a con or a party or a shindig. Take a cue from the science fiction conventions, perhaps. Have your educational panels, have some vendors, but make it clear this is an event for people to enjoy themselves and to meet people who are doing similar things and enjoying themselves too. And price getting in at less than $100, and make sure travel and lodgings are reasonably cheap. Cover your costs, but don't try to make a business off of it.
                  >
                  > Is there enough energy left in podcasting to make a popular and fun event out of that? Dunno. I'm no longer the right person to ask. The first Podcastercon (organized by Mur and a few others in Raleigh, NC) was fun like this. The Podcamps have been fun. I don't know what's still going on. But if it can be done, I believe that would be the way to do it.
                  >
                  > Have Fun,
                  > Steve Eley
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Nobilis Reed
                  On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Michael Sitarzewski ... Wow, really? Every single podcaster I know, at least personally, would laugh uproariously at the idea
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 2, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Michael Sitarzewski
                    <msitarzewski@...> wrote:
                    > It's a fine line, isn't it? Is it fun, or is it business?
                    >
                    > You're right, most podcasters have the dream of making a six figure income from their hobby. Nothing's to say it's impossible, it just takes a lot of work. Work and hobby for most aren't the same thing yet. :)

                    Wow, really? Every single podcaster I know, at least personally,
                    would laugh uproariously at the idea of getting enough income to
                    actually cover expenses, much less make a profit at it. If you're
                    REALLY lucky, it's an expense that gets paid for out of a different
                    stream, like writing or consulting.




                    --
                    Stories that don't stop at the bedroom door - or the castle gate - or
                    the airlock.
                    http://www.nobiliserotica.com
                    ----------------------------------
                    "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and
                    fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy
                    to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."
                    -- Justice Louis Brandeis
                  • Pat Cook
                    If one is held right here in Denver, even I might be interested in attending (Fully clothed of course since I do a live video podcast that s currently not in
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 7, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      If one is held right here in Denver, even I might be interested in attending (Fully clothed of course since I do a live video podcast that's currently not in the sig from my shower :) )

                      Cheers :)

                       
                      Pat Cook
                      HOST - The Political Rewrite Podcast - http://politicalrewritepodcast.blogspot.com/
                      BLOG - The Political Rewrite - http://thepoliticalrewrite.blogspot.com/
                      Englewood, CO

                      TWITTER - http://twitter.com/libconservative
                      FACEBOOK - http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Political-Opera-House-Podcast/126700177352576


                      ________________________________
                      From: Stephen Eley <SFEley@...>
                      To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 11:41 AM
                      Subject: Re: [podcasters] Podcasting Trade Shows


                       
                      On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Michael Sitarzewski wrote:
                      >
                      > Here's a pitch:
                      >
                      > A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
                      > Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the weekend.
                      > After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster, advertiser, service provider, whatever).
                      > Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
                      > How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
                      > The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards, stage, tinsel, and all. :)
                      >
                      > It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country (right here in Denver!).

                      That's more or less what the Podcast Expo used to be.

                      Then it became the Podcast and New Media Expo. Then it became the New Media Expo. Then it merged with Blogworld.

                      The catch is this: the vast majority of podcasters are doing it for fun and can't call it a business. They have no real revenue from it, and no business rationale to justify their cost for going to a "trade show." Actual trade shows in actual profit-making industries tend to be priced for people who are expensing it to their companies. (Hundreds of dollars to attend, sometimes over a thousand, plus travel.) Sponsors can only justify sponsoring it if the marketing exposure would hit enough new customers with enough purchasing power that they have a chance of making back the cost.

                      Tim Bourquin took exactly this approach for the Expo. To be fair, he did it well. The best part of _any_ convention is the socializing, and podcasters know how to party. I went in 2006 and 2007 and had a lot of fun. (Especially in 2007 when I was mostly there to get laid. *cough*) The energy of the podcast community in those first few years was very strong.

                      But if you're calling it a "business" event, and you succeed, then over time what you're going to get is more and more people who think of it as a business. You stop attracting the fun creative types who are doing what they do because they love it; and you get more and more "business" attendees:

                      Well-intentioned but naïve souls who think that their Buffy/Battlestar Galactica crossover fanfiction podcast could make $100,000 a year if only they could learn the right magic formula to "monetize" it, or if they "network" a little more. (Most of the presentations in later years seemed to be oriented toward this crowd.)
                      Corporate marketing flacks who got some mandate that "new media" is part of their job now and they need to find out what podcasting is. They don't give a crap about community, they just want to know which vendor in the exhibit hall is likeliest to sell them the magic button that will keep them from having to learn anything technical.
                      "New media" consultants and other "experts" who are there in principle to schmooze and sell things to groups #1 and #2, but from what I can tell spend most of their time schmoozing to each other and congratulating themselves on their brilliance.

                      None of these people are very fun. ...Well. The #1 people are, sometimes, if you can talk to them about that Spike/Baltar scene before they forget what their podcast was about and start thinking it's about the money. The Expo died (or got eaten) because there wasn't enough money on the business side of podcasting to keep people talking about the business year after year, and in the meantime they stopped trying to appeal to the people who were doing it for fun.

                      If you want to avoid this? Don't call it a trade show. Call it a con or a party or a shindig. Take a cue from the science fiction conventions, perhaps. Have your educational panels, have some vendors, but make it clear this is an event for people to enjoy themselves and to meet people who are doing similar things and enjoying themselves too. And price getting in at less than $100, and make sure travel and lodgings are reasonably cheap. Cover your costs, but don't try to make a business off of it.

                      Is there enough energy left in podcasting to make a popular and fun event out of that? Dunno. I'm no longer the right person to ask. The first Podcastercon (organized by Mur and a few others in Raleigh, NC) was fun like this. The Podcamps have been fun. I don't know what's still going on. But if it can be done, I believe that would be the way to do it.

                      Have Fun,
                      Steve Eley

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Pat Cook
                      Even those who put in the work usually don t make a whole lot of $$$ from their hobby either after Uncle Sam gets his Share :( Cheers :)   Pat Cook HOST -
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 7, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Even those who put in the work usually don't make a whole lot of $$$ from their hobby either after Uncle Sam gets his "Share" :(

                        Cheers :)

                         
                        Pat Cook
                        HOST - The Political Rewrite Podcast - http://politicalrewritepodcast.blogspot.com/
                        BLOG - The Political Rewrite - http://thepoliticalrewrite.blogspot.com/
                        Englewood, CO

                        TWITTER - http://twitter.com/libconservative
                        FACEBOOK - http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Political-Opera-House-Podcast/126700177352576


                        ________________________________
                        From: Michael Sitarzewski <msitarzewski@...>
                        To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, December 2, 2011 12:49 PM
                        Subject: Re: [podcasters] Podcasting Trade Shows

                        It's a fine line, isn't it? Is it fun, or is it business?

                        You're right, most podcasters have the dream of making a six figure income from their hobby. Nothing's to say it's impossible, it just takes a lot of work. Work and hobby for most aren't the same thing yet. :)

                        I never had the pleasure of attending the earlier events, I was just thinking about what I'd like to see.

                        Michael Sitarzewski
                        http://friendmichael.com




                        On Dec 2, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Stephen Eley wrote:

                        > On Dec 1, 2011, at 12:39 PM, Michael Sitarzewski wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Here's a pitch:
                        > >
                        > > A nice dinner on opening night (Friday)
                        > > Half way through the dinner, a speaker welcomes everyone, and intros the weekend.
                        > > After dinner, we have a keynote from an industry player (podcaster, advertiser, service provider, whatever).
                        > > Then there's a day and a half of podcasting/audio/video publishing sessions! (Saturday & 1/2 Sunday)
                        > > How to sessions, live podcasts, ad reps, equipment reps, etc.
                        > > The closing party Sunday afternoon culminates with the podcast awards, stage, tinsel, and all. :)
                        > >
                        > > It's a two night event - and maybe we hold it in the middle of the country (right here in Denver!).
                        >
                        > That's more or less what the Podcast Expo used to be.
                        >
                        > Then it became the Podcast and New Media Expo. Then it became the New Media Expo. Then it merged with Blogworld.
                        >
                        > The catch is this: the vast majority of podcasters are doing it for fun and can't call it a business. They have no real revenue from it, and no business rationale to justify their cost for going to a "trade show." Actual trade shows in actual profit-making industries tend to be priced for people who are expensing it to their companies. (Hundreds of dollars to attend, sometimes over a thousand, plus travel.) Sponsors can only justify sponsoring it if the marketing exposure would hit enough new customers with enough purchasing power that they have a chance of making back the cost.
                        >
                        > Tim Bourquin took exactly this approach for the Expo. To be fair, he did it well. The best part of _any_ convention is the socializing, and podcasters know how to party. I went in 2006 and 2007 and had a lot of fun. (Especially in 2007 when I was mostly there to get laid. *cough*) The energy of the podcast community in those first few years was very strong.
                        >
                        > But if you're calling it a "business" event, and you succeed, then over time what you're going to get is more and more people who think of it as a business. You stop attracting the fun creative types who are doing what they do because they love it; and you get more and more "business" attendees:
                        >
                        > Well-intentioned but naïve souls who think that their Buffy/Battlestar Galactica crossover fanfiction podcast could make $100,000 a year if only they could learn the right magic formula to "monetize" it, or if they "network" a little more. (Most of the presentations in later years seemed to be oriented toward this crowd.)
                        > Corporate marketing flacks who got some mandate that "new media" is part of their job now and they need to find out what podcasting is. They don't give a crap about community, they just want to know which vendor in the exhibit hall is likeliest to sell them the magic button that will keep them from having to learn anything technical.
                        > "New media" consultants and other "experts" who are there in principle to schmooze and sell things to groups #1 and #2, but from what I can tell spend most of their time schmoozing to each other and congratulating themselves on their brilliance.
                        >
                        > None of these people are very fun. ...Well. The #1 people are, sometimes, if you can talk to them about that Spike/Baltar scene before they forget what their podcast was about and start thinking it's about the money. The Expo died (or got eaten) because there wasn't enough money on the business side of podcasting to keep people talking about the business year after year, and in the meantime they stopped trying to appeal to the people who were doing it for fun.
                        >
                        > If you want to avoid this? Don't call it a trade show. Call it a con or a party or a shindig. Take a cue from the science fiction conventions, perhaps. Have your educational panels, have some vendors, but make it clear this is an event for people to enjoy themselves and to meet people who are doing similar things and enjoying themselves too. And price getting in at less than $100, and make sure travel and lodgings are reasonably cheap. Cover your costs, but don't try to make a business off of it.
                        >
                        > Is there enough energy left in podcasting to make a popular and fun event out of that? Dunno. I'm no longer the right person to ask. The first Podcastercon (organized by Mur and a few others in Raleigh, NC) was fun like this. The Podcamps have been fun. I don't know what's still going on. But if it can be done, I believe that would be the way to do it.
                        >
                        > Have Fun,
                        > Steve Eley
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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