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Gain versus Level Re Distortion

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  • shermie98
    My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program. 1) What is the
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 9 7:16 PM
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      My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program.

      1) What is the relationship between the effect of the gain setting and the effect of the level setting?

      2) I am getting distortion where my volume spikes. I don't know whether to try to control this with level or gain.

      3) Does the pan setting come into play at all?

      4) Anyone knowledgeable in the West LA/Culver City/Westchester area want to come over and help me with this for a modest meal out in exchange?

      ShermLA
    • danhughes@juno.com
      Did anyone ever answer this? I ve had a similar problem, and I remember that when I adjusted one control (gain or level) I got a lot more noise in the signal
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 12 7:55 PM
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        Did anyone ever answer this?

        I've had a similar problem, and I remember that when I adjusted one control (gain or level) I got a lot more noise in the signal than I did from the other control. I don't remember which was which, but if you turn your headphones up and just listen to the background noise your mic picks up and then adjust each control, you should hear what I mean.

        And then adjust accordingly for lowest background noise for decent mic level.

        ---Dan, http://danhughes.net

        P.S. I believe the pan setting changes the signal ratio for left and right channels - that is, makes one earphone louder than the other. Leave it in the middle unless you want to shift your sound from one side to the other.



        ---------- Original Message ----------
        From: "shermie98" <sherm_usa@...>
        To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [podcasters] Gain versus Level Re Distortion
        Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:16:09 -0000

        My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program.

        1) What is the relationship between the effect of the gain setting and the effect of the level setting?

        2) I am getting distortion where my volume spikes. I don't know whether to try to control this with level or gain.

        3) Does the pan setting come into play at all?

        4) Anyone knowledgeable in the West LA/Culver City/Westchester area want to come over and help me with this for a modest meal out in exchange?

        ShermLA


        __

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • wizzardmediareceiver
        I don t know what happened, I tried to respond before. The signal coming out of the mic isn t line level The job of the gain is to get it up to a nice
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 12 9:10 PM
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          I don't know what happened, I tried to respond before.

          The signal coming out of the mic isn't "line level" The job of the gain is to get it up to a nice healthy signal that works well with all your equipment. On the behringer, you should just set the "level" on that channel and the output mixer "level" to 0. Then use the "gain" to boost the signal up to peaking around +4 on your meters. So the voice that is speaking, when it is at its loudest, it peaks around +4, but hovers around 0.

          If you are recording two sources at the same time (two mics) than you may want to adjust the difference in "level" to make the volumes of the two speaker as close as possible. Pan's there if you wanted to have a speaker 1 slightly to the left, and speaker 2 slightly to the right thing going on.

          Generally though, I just try to get the strongest, healthiest signal into the computer. With each source getting its own track, and then do panning and further level adjustments within the computer.

          it is tough because its a fine line between a healthy signal and one that Peaks, or overloads. You just want to make sure the behringer isn't hitting the red led, or rarely hits the red led. The recording can get distorted if you are not careful. Its about getting the best signal to noise ratio without distortion.

          No matter what equipment you use, there is going to be some noise, thats why you want to make sure the signal is much higher than the noise floor. The noise floor can be the hum of the electronics, or the air conditioner in your room. The "gain" control introduces noise as well, you'll notice the higher you turn it up the noisier it gets. Thats cause it has to work so hard to amplify the signal for optimal use. But regardless of the noise its introducing, if you have the "level controls" (both in the channel and the master) set to 0 then you still want to make sure you are getting the signal between 0 db and +4 on the led meter.

          Dave Mansueto



          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "danhughes@..." <danhughes@...> wrote:
          >
          > Did anyone ever answer this?
          >
          > I've had a similar problem, and I remember that when I adjusted one control (gain or level) I got a lot more noise in the signal than I did from the other control. I don't remember which was which, but if you turn your headphones up and just listen to the background noise your mic picks up and then adjust each control, you should hear what I mean.
          >
          > And then adjust accordingly for lowest background noise for decent mic level.
          >
          > ---Dan, http://danhughes.net
          >
          > P.S. I believe the pan setting changes the signal ratio for left and right channels - that is, makes one earphone louder than the other. Leave it in the middle unless you want to shift your sound from one side to the other.
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------- Original Message ----------
          > From: "shermie98" <sherm_usa@...>
          > To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [podcasters] Gain versus Level Re Distortion
          > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:16:09 -0000
          >
          > My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program.
          >
          > 1) What is the relationship between the effect of the gain setting and the effect of the level setting?
          >
          > 2) I am getting distortion where my volume spikes. I don't know whether to try to control this with level or gain.
          >
          > 3) Does the pan setting come into play at all?
          >
          > 4) Anyone knowledgeable in the West LA/Culver City/Westchester area want to come over and help me with this for a modest meal out in exchange?
          >
          > ShermLA
          >
          >
          > __
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • wizzardmediareceiver
          Also to be more specific on number two, If you are only getting distortion on the volume spikes, but the other times it sounds good, than use the level to
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 12 9:20 PM
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            Also to be more specific on number two,

            If you are only getting distortion on the volume spikes, but the other times it sounds good, than use the level to "fine tune" the volume of the spikes. Gains controls the wider swath of amplifying a non line level signal. Level is more about fine tuning adjustments.

            I still recommend starting with level at the 0 position, get the gain set so its as good as possible, then fine tune with level.

            Lastly, a hardware compressor/limiter like this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/3630/
            (decent sounding 2 channel for 2 speakers)
            or this
            http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Comp16/
            (better sounding but only 1 channel for one speaker)
            goes a long long way to improving your sound. Yes you can compress after the audio gets in the computer, but an outboard compressor makes your life so much easier smoothing out the peaks, and raising the valleys of your dynamics. It complicates things at first, but it can really be worth the hassle by making your audio smoother and improving the signal to noise ratio.

            Dave Mansueto



            --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "shermie98" <sherm_usa@...> wrote:
            >
            > My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program.
            >
            > 1) What is the relationship between the effect of the gain setting and the effect of the level setting?
            >
            > 2) I am getting distortion where my volume spikes. I don't know whether to try to control this with level or gain.
            >
            > 3) Does the pan setting come into play at all?
            >
            > 4) Anyone knowledgeable in the West LA/Culver City/Westchester area want to come over and help me with this for a modest meal out in exchange?
            >
            > ShermLA
            >
          • wizzardmediareceiver
            And if you see that the level is good and healthy on the behringer led meter, and plugging in headphones sounds good and not distorted, but you still are
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 12 9:24 PM
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              And if you see that the level is good and healthy on the behringer led meter, and plugging in headphones sounds good and not distorted, but you still are getting distortion, than it could be the sound blaster thats turned up to high, or the computer input setting.

              dave m

              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "wizzardmediareceiver" <wizzardmediareceiver@...> wrote:
              >
              > Also to be more specific on number two,
              >
              > If you are only getting distortion on the volume spikes, but the other times it sounds good, than use the level to "fine tune" the volume of the spikes. Gains controls the wider swath of amplifying a non line level signal. Level is more about fine tuning adjustments.
              >
              > I still recommend starting with level at the 0 position, get the gain set so its as good as possible, then fine tune with level.
              >
              > Lastly, a hardware compressor/limiter like this http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/3630/
              > (decent sounding 2 channel for 2 speakers)
              > or this
              > http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Comp16/
              > (better sounding but only 1 channel for one speaker)
              > goes a long long way to improving your sound. Yes you can compress after the audio gets in the computer, but an outboard compressor makes your life so much easier smoothing out the peaks, and raising the valleys of your dynamics. It complicates things at first, but it can really be worth the hassle by making your audio smoother and improving the signal to noise ratio.
              >
              > Dave Mansueto
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "shermie98" <sherm_usa@> wrote:
              > >
              > > My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program.
              > >
              > > 1) What is the relationship between the effect of the gain setting and the effect of the level setting?
              > >
              > > 2) I am getting distortion where my volume spikes. I don't know whether to try to control this with level or gain.
              > >
              > > 3) Does the pan setting come into play at all?
              > >
              > > 4) Anyone knowledgeable in the West LA/Culver City/Westchester area want to come over and help me with this for a modest meal out in exchange?
              > >
              > > ShermLA
              > >
              >
            • Pat Cook
              A few questions for you Sherm..... 1). Have you tried using other programs? If so, what are the results? 2). How close and/or far back are you to the mic?
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 13 8:34 PM
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                A few questions for you Sherm.....

                1). Have you tried using other programs? If so, what are the results?
                2). How close and/or far back are you to the mic?

                By answering these questions, we might be able to help you pinpoint the problem.

                Cheers :D

                Pat Cook
                HOST - The Left Wing Conservative
                Denver, CO
                WEBSITE - http://www.wix.com/progressivemoderates/mainwix
                AUDIO PODCAST - http://theleftwingwingconservative.mevio.com/
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                SKYPE LINE - leftyconservative
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                VOICEMAIL - 206-350-2175




                ________________________________
                From: "danhughes@..." <danhughes@...>
                To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 8:55:10 PM
                Subject: Re: [podcasters] Gain versus Level Re Distortion


                Did anyone ever answer this?

                I've had a similar problem, and I remember that when I adjusted one control
                (gain or level) I got a lot more noise in the signal than I did from the other
                control. I don't remember which was which, but if you turn your headphones up
                and just listen to the background noise your mic picks up and then adjust each
                control, you should hear what I mean.


                And then adjust accordingly for lowest background noise for decent mic level.

                ---Dan, http://danhughes.net

                P.S. I believe the pan setting changes the signal ratio for left and right
                channels - that is, makes one earphone louder than the other. Leave it in the
                middle unless you want to shift your sound from one side to the other.

                ---------- Original Message ----------
                From: "shermie98" <sherm_usa@...>
                To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [podcasters] Gain versus Level Re Distortion
                Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 02:16:09 -0000

                My equipment is a Eurorack UB802 and Shure SM58 microphone run through a
                Creative Sound Blaster. Am using Propaganda as recording program.

                1) What is the relationship between the effect of the gain setting and the
                effect of the level setting?

                2) I am getting distortion where my volume spikes. I don't know whether to try
                to control this with level or gain.

                3) Does the pan setting come into play at all?

                4) Anyone knowledgeable in the West LA/Culver City/Westchester area want to come
                over and help me with this for a modest meal out in exchange?

                ShermLA


                __

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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