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Re: Duplicate content problem?

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  • Michael B
    Yea, I guess it s not really a duplicate content issue. It s more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that s okay. It s
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
      Yea, I guess it's not really a duplicate content issue. It's more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that's okay. It's not like I'm putting keywords in white text against a white background or anything. Just trying to brainstorm on a new way to get more exposure and greater use of my back catalog.


      Michael Britt
      michael@...
      www.thepsychfiles.com

      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
      >
      > Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
      > worried about?
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      > On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
      > > wrote:
      >
      > > Steve,
      > >
      > > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
      > > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
      > > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
      > > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
      > > to the podcast episode on my other site.
      > >
      > >
      > > Michael Britt
      > > michael@...
      > > www.thepsychfiles.com
      > >
      > > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
      > >> <michael.britt@> wrote:
      > >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
      > >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
      > >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
      > >>
      > >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
      > >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
      > >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
      > >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
      > >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
      > >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
      > >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
      > >> release
      > >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
      > >> shrug and skip one of them.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --
      > >> Have Fun,
      > >> Steve Eley (sfeley@)
      > >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
      > >> http://www.escapepod.org
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • angelomandato
      I ve been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit to 50 items per
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
        I've been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with
        the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit
        to 50 items per feed or else the feed size exceeds 500K. You definitely
        don't want your feed to exceed this size, directories and even
        FeedBurner will complain that the feed is too large or/and that it takes
        too long to download.

        I've been thinking about adding an option to Blubrry PowerPress
        <http://www.blubrry.com/powerpress/> (Podcasting plugin for WordPress)
        to provide an extended, slimmed down podcast feed. Basically if you can
        trim down the amount of information in the feed, your feed could include
        a lot more post items. I know there is value in having full post
        descriptions and iTunes tags such as keywords, subtitle, summary,
        explicit, etc... but if there was an option to trim this information
        after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
        feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
        content in the feed. What would be a good threshold, first 10 include
        all the tags, then 11-500 include shorter summaries and only the
        essential iTunes tags? Would this need to be a setting each podcaster
        could decide? Anyone have any thoughts?

        --angelo


        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of
        episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a
        while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because
        there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in
        the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious .
        So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I
        briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the
        relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember
        hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully
        understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
        >
        > Thoughts/feedback welcome,
        >
        > Michael
        >
        > Michael Britt
        > michael@...
        > www.thepsychfiles.com
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Eley
        ... There s an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine whether an item element has
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
          On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
          >
          > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
          > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
          > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
          > content in the feed.

          There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
          newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
          whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
          GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
          elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
          episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
          Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
          blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
          required elements or update timestamps.)

          I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
          items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
          podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
          behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
          want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
          testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
          RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
          feeds.


          --
          Have Fun,
          Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
          ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
          http://www.escapepod.org
        • angelomandato
          You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn t thinking about the basic
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
            You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc... Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes, on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

            Anymore thoughts/suggestions?


            --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
            > > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
            > > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
            > > content in the feed.
            >
            > There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
            > newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
            > whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
            > GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
            > elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
            > episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
            > Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
            > blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
            > required elements or update timestamps.)
            >
            > I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
            > items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
            > podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
            > behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
            > want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
            > testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
            > RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
            > feeds.
            >
            >
            > --
            > Have Fun,
            > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
            > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
            > http://www.escapepod.org
            >
          • Stephen Eley
            ... Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements. I ve never
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
              On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
              > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...

              Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
              or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
              I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
              Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
              probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
              item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
              gracefully.


              > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes,

              According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
              downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
              typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
              today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
              syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?


              > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

              To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
              any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
              podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
              directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
              other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
              off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.

              Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
              directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
              _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
              matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
              Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.

              If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
              new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
              Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
              proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
              average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
              think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
              specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
              and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.


              --
              Have Fun,
              Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
              ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
              http://www.escapepod.org
            • angelomandato
              I m only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content evergreen. I m
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
                I'm only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow
                include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content
                evergreen. I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if there's
                interest in such a feature.

                There are new directories popping up all the time. www.spokenword.org is
                one that comes to mind. It would benefit you greatly to get your podcast
                on as many directories as possible. I wouldn't abandon the possibility
                of a new listener, let alone the SEO value of being listed on another
                web site, just because iTunes makes up a bulk of your audience.

                Reversing my earlier thought, iTunes is very important and we should do
                everything we can to include as many episodes as possible since iTunes
                only lists episodes found in your feed.

                The challenge will be preventing directories from seeing a change in
                your older podcast feed items and then replacing the large description
                with the shorter one. That may not be a big deal though and may actually
                be a good thing as far as SEO for the podcaster's blog is concerned. The
                less number of sites that re-post exactly what you posted on your own
                blog the better. Such a feature could hurt SEO for directories though,
                since as soon as a post is 11 episodes old, the description would update
                to a smaller excerpt.

                End users shouldn't be getting episodes twice, unless you do something
                drastic that changes the title, guid or publish date. You can change the
                number of items in your feed from 10 to 50, iTunes or Google Reader will
                not view those older posts as new or re-order them above the newest
                dated post/episode. As far as other directories are concerned, it will
                require some testing and research. The additional items in the feed may
                do exactly as you describe and re-list duplicate past posts on other
                directories. At a worst case though, it should only do that once when
                you extend the number of items in your feed. Small price to pay to
                display all your episodes in iTunes.

                I'm just looking to see if there's interest in such a feature. If no one
                thinks it's a good idea then I will not waste any time researching it.

                --angelo


                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato cio@... wrote:
                > > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what
                happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking
                about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was
                thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the
                <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>,
                <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...
                >
                > Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                > or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                > I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                > Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                > probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                > item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                > gracefully.
                >
                >
                > > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to
                iTunes,
                >
                > According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                > downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                > typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                > today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                > syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?
                >
                >
                > > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that
                includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new
                directory.
                >
                > To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                > any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                > podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                > directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                > other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                > off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.
                >
                > Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                > directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                > _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                > matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                > Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.
                >
                > If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                > new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                > Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                > proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                > average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                > think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                > specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                > and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.
                >
                >
                > --
                > Have Fun,
                > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                > http://www.escapepod.org
                >
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