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Re: Duplicate content problem?

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  • Michael B
    Steve, What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking. My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and create a new post
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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      Steve,

      What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking. My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over to the podcast episode on my other site.


      Michael Britt
      michael@...
      www.thepsychfiles.com

      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
      > <michael.britt@...> wrote:
      > > That's okay, right?  I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
      >
      > I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
      > extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
      > you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
      > first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
      > duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
      > choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
      > It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to release
      > the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
      > shrug and skip one of them.
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Have Fun,
      > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
      > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
      > http://www.escapepod.org
      >
    • Stephen Eley
      Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you worried about? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Michael B
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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        Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
        worried about?

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
        > wrote:

        > Steve,
        >
        > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
        > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
        > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
        > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
        > to the podcast episode on my other site.
        >
        >
        > Michael Britt
        > michael@...
        > www.thepsychfiles.com
        >
        > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
        >> <michael.britt@...> wrote:
        >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
        >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
        >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
        >>
        >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
        >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
        >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
        >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
        >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
        >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
        >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
        >> release
        >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
        >> shrug and skip one of them.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> --
        >> Have Fun,
        >> Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
        >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
        >> http://www.escapepod.org
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Michael B
        Yea, I guess it s not really a duplicate content issue. It s more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that s okay. It s
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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          Yea, I guess it's not really a duplicate content issue. It's more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that's okay. It's not like I'm putting keywords in white text against a white background or anything. Just trying to brainstorm on a new way to get more exposure and greater use of my back catalog.


          Michael Britt
          michael@...
          www.thepsychfiles.com

          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
          >
          > Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
          > worried about?
          >
          > Sent from my iPhone
          >
          > On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
          > > wrote:
          >
          > > Steve,
          > >
          > > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
          > > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
          > > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
          > > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
          > > to the podcast episode on my other site.
          > >
          > >
          > > Michael Britt
          > > michael@...
          > > www.thepsychfiles.com
          > >
          > > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@> wrote:
          > >>
          > >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
          > >> <michael.britt@> wrote:
          > >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
          > >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
          > >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
          > >>
          > >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
          > >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
          > >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
          > >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
          > >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
          > >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
          > >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
          > >> release
          > >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
          > >> shrug and skip one of them.
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> --
          > >> Have Fun,
          > >> Steve Eley (sfeley@)
          > >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
          > >> http://www.escapepod.org
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • angelomandato
          I ve been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit to 50 items per
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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            I've been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with
            the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit
            to 50 items per feed or else the feed size exceeds 500K. You definitely
            don't want your feed to exceed this size, directories and even
            FeedBurner will complain that the feed is too large or/and that it takes
            too long to download.

            I've been thinking about adding an option to Blubrry PowerPress
            <http://www.blubrry.com/powerpress/> (Podcasting plugin for WordPress)
            to provide an extended, slimmed down podcast feed. Basically if you can
            trim down the amount of information in the feed, your feed could include
            a lot more post items. I know there is value in having full post
            descriptions and iTunes tags such as keywords, subtitle, summary,
            explicit, etc... but if there was an option to trim this information
            after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
            feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
            content in the feed. What would be a good threshold, first 10 include
            all the tags, then 11-500 include shorter summaries and only the
            essential iTunes tags? Would this need to be a setting each podcaster
            could decide? Anyone have any thoughts?

            --angelo


            --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of
            episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a
            while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because
            there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in
            the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious .
            So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I
            briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the
            relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember
            hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully
            understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
            >
            > Thoughts/feedback welcome,
            >
            > Michael
            >
            > Michael Britt
            > michael@...
            > www.thepsychfiles.com
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Stephen Eley
            ... There s an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine whether an item element has
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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              On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
              >
              > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
              > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
              > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
              > content in the feed.

              There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
              newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
              whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
              GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
              elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
              episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
              Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
              blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
              required elements or update timestamps.)

              I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
              items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
              podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
              behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
              want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
              testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
              RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
              feeds.


              --
              Have Fun,
              Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
              ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
              http://www.escapepod.org
            • angelomandato
              You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn t thinking about the basic
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc... Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes, on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

                Anymore thoughts/suggestions?


                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
                > > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                > > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                > > content in the feed.
                >
                > There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
                > newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
                > whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
                > GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
                > elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
                > episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
                > Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
                > blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
                > required elements or update timestamps.)
                >
                > I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
                > items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
                > podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
                > behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
                > want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
                > testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
                > RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
                > feeds.
                >
                >
                > --
                > Have Fun,
                > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                > http://www.escapepod.org
                >
              • Stephen Eley
                ... Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements. I ve never
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                  On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                  > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...

                  Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                  or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                  I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                  Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                  probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                  item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                  gracefully.


                  > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes,

                  According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                  downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                  typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                  today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                  syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?


                  > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

                  To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                  any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                  podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                  directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                  other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                  off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.

                  Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                  directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                  _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                  matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                  Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.

                  If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                  new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                  Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                  proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                  average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                  think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                  specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                  and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.


                  --
                  Have Fun,
                  Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                  ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                  http://www.escapepod.org
                • angelomandato
                  I m only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content evergreen. I m
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                    I'm only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow
                    include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content
                    evergreen. I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if there's
                    interest in such a feature.

                    There are new directories popping up all the time. www.spokenword.org is
                    one that comes to mind. It would benefit you greatly to get your podcast
                    on as many directories as possible. I wouldn't abandon the possibility
                    of a new listener, let alone the SEO value of being listed on another
                    web site, just because iTunes makes up a bulk of your audience.

                    Reversing my earlier thought, iTunes is very important and we should do
                    everything we can to include as many episodes as possible since iTunes
                    only lists episodes found in your feed.

                    The challenge will be preventing directories from seeing a change in
                    your older podcast feed items and then replacing the large description
                    with the shorter one. That may not be a big deal though and may actually
                    be a good thing as far as SEO for the podcaster's blog is concerned. The
                    less number of sites that re-post exactly what you posted on your own
                    blog the better. Such a feature could hurt SEO for directories though,
                    since as soon as a post is 11 episodes old, the description would update
                    to a smaller excerpt.

                    End users shouldn't be getting episodes twice, unless you do something
                    drastic that changes the title, guid or publish date. You can change the
                    number of items in your feed from 10 to 50, iTunes or Google Reader will
                    not view those older posts as new or re-order them above the newest
                    dated post/episode. As far as other directories are concerned, it will
                    require some testing and research. The additional items in the feed may
                    do exactly as you describe and re-list duplicate past posts on other
                    directories. At a worst case though, it should only do that once when
                    you extend the number of items in your feed. Small price to pay to
                    display all your episodes in iTunes.

                    I'm just looking to see if there's interest in such a feature. If no one
                    thinks it's a good idea then I will not waste any time researching it.

                    --angelo


                    --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato cio@... wrote:
                    > > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what
                    happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking
                    about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was
                    thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the
                    <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>,
                    <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...
                    >
                    > Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                    > or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                    > I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                    > Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                    > probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                    > item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                    > gracefully.
                    >
                    >
                    > > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to
                    iTunes,
                    >
                    > According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                    > downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                    > typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                    > today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                    > syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?
                    >
                    >
                    > > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that
                    includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new
                    directory.
                    >
                    > To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                    > any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                    > podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                    > directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                    > other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                    > off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.
                    >
                    > Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                    > directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                    > _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                    > matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                    > Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.
                    >
                    > If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                    > new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                    > Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                    > proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                    > average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                    > think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                    > specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                    > and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Have Fun,
                    > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                    > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                    > http://www.escapepod.org
                    >
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