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Re: [podcasters] Duplicate content problem?

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  • Ben Straw
    I was pondering the same thing the other day, What I would do is have 2 category s, one named Blog and the other Podcast, Then go though the old posts and set
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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      I was pondering the same thing the other day, What I would do is have 2 category's, one named Blog and the other Podcast, Then go though the old posts and set the posts to the correct category's. I don't know if your theme supports this but have a featured page that stickys the latest show at the top of the page.
      as far as the old podcasts getting lost in the blog cruft, the category listing should help anyone who JUST wants to find the podcasts then having sift though all the blog posts for them.

      Hope this info helps.

      Ben Straw
      Ben's Tech Show - http://www.BensTechShow.com
      How 2 Podcast - http://www.how2podcast.com
      Mac Tip Podcast - http://www.MacTipPodcast.com
      Phone: 1-304-449-GEEK
      Skype: n3bb3n
      Twitter: twitter.com/nebben




      ________________________________
      From: Michael B <michael.britt@...>
      To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 6:41:22 AM
      Subject: [podcasters] Duplicate content problem?


      I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious . So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.

      Thoughts/feedback welcome,

      Michael

      Michael Britt
      michael@thepsychfil es.com
      www.thepsychfiles. com







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Stephen Eley
      On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B ... I m not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the extent that I _think_ I understand it, it
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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        On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
        <michael.britt@...> wrote:
        > That's okay, right?  I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.

        I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
        extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
        you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
        first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
        duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
        choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
        It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to release
        the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
        shrug and skip one of them.



        --
        Have Fun,
        Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
        ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
        http://www.escapepod.org
      • Michael B
        Steve, What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking. My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and create a new post
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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          Steve,

          What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking. My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over to the podcast episode on my other site.


          Michael Britt
          michael@...
          www.thepsychfiles.com

          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
          > <michael.britt@...> wrote:
          > > That's okay, right?  I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
          >
          > I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
          > extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
          > you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
          > first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
          > duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
          > choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
          > It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to release
          > the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
          > shrug and skip one of them.
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Have Fun,
          > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
          > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
          > http://www.escapepod.org
          >
        • Stephen Eley
          Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you worried about? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Michael B
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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            Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
            worried about?

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
            > wrote:

            > Steve,
            >
            > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
            > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
            > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
            > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
            > to the podcast episode on my other site.
            >
            >
            > Michael Britt
            > michael@...
            > www.thepsychfiles.com
            >
            > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
            >> <michael.britt@...> wrote:
            >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
            >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
            >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
            >>
            >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
            >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
            >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
            >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
            >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
            >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
            >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
            >> release
            >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
            >> shrug and skip one of them.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> --
            >> Have Fun,
            >> Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
            >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
            >> http://www.escapepod.org
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Michael B
            Yea, I guess it s not really a duplicate content issue. It s more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that s okay. It s
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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              Yea, I guess it's not really a duplicate content issue. It's more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that's okay. It's not like I'm putting keywords in white text against a white background or anything. Just trying to brainstorm on a new way to get more exposure and greater use of my back catalog.


              Michael Britt
              michael@...
              www.thepsychfiles.com

              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
              > worried about?
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              >
              > On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
              > > wrote:
              >
              > > Steve,
              > >
              > > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
              > > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
              > > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
              > > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
              > > to the podcast episode on my other site.
              > >
              > >
              > > Michael Britt
              > > michael@...
              > > www.thepsychfiles.com
              > >
              > > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
              > >> <michael.britt@> wrote:
              > >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
              > >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
              > >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
              > >>
              > >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
              > >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
              > >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
              > >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
              > >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
              > >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
              > >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
              > >> release
              > >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
              > >> shrug and skip one of them.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> --
              > >> Have Fun,
              > >> Steve Eley (sfeley@)
              > >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
              > >> http://www.escapepod.org
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • angelomandato
              I ve been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit to 50 items per
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                I've been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with
                the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit
                to 50 items per feed or else the feed size exceeds 500K. You definitely
                don't want your feed to exceed this size, directories and even
                FeedBurner will complain that the feed is too large or/and that it takes
                too long to download.

                I've been thinking about adding an option to Blubrry PowerPress
                <http://www.blubrry.com/powerpress/> (Podcasting plugin for WordPress)
                to provide an extended, slimmed down podcast feed. Basically if you can
                trim down the amount of information in the feed, your feed could include
                a lot more post items. I know there is value in having full post
                descriptions and iTunes tags such as keywords, subtitle, summary,
                explicit, etc... but if there was an option to trim this information
                after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                content in the feed. What would be a good threshold, first 10 include
                all the tags, then 11-500 include shorter summaries and only the
                essential iTunes tags? Would this need to be a setting each podcaster
                could decide? Anyone have any thoughts?

                --angelo


                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of
                episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a
                while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because
                there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in
                the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious .
                So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I
                briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the
                relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember
                hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully
                understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
                >
                > Thoughts/feedback welcome,
                >
                > Michael
                >
                > Michael Britt
                > michael@...
                > www.thepsychfiles.com
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Eley
                ... There s an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine whether an item element has
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                  On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
                  > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                  > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                  > content in the feed.

                  There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
                  newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
                  whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
                  GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
                  elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
                  episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
                  Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
                  blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
                  required elements or update timestamps.)

                  I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
                  items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
                  podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
                  behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
                  want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
                  testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
                  RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
                  feeds.


                  --
                  Have Fun,
                  Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                  ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                  http://www.escapepod.org
                • angelomandato
                  You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn t thinking about the basic
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                    You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc... Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes, on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

                    Anymore thoughts/suggestions?


                    --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
                    > > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                    > > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                    > > content in the feed.
                    >
                    > There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
                    > newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
                    > whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
                    > GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
                    > elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
                    > episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
                    > Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
                    > blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
                    > required elements or update timestamps.)
                    >
                    > I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
                    > items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
                    > podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
                    > behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
                    > want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
                    > testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
                    > RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
                    > feeds.
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Have Fun,
                    > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                    > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                    > http://www.escapepod.org
                    >
                  • Stephen Eley
                    ... Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements. I ve never
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                      On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                      > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...

                      Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                      or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                      I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                      Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                      probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                      item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                      gracefully.


                      > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes,

                      According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                      downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                      typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                      today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                      syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?


                      > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

                      To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                      any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                      podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                      directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                      other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                      off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.

                      Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                      directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                      _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                      matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                      Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.

                      If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                      new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                      Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                      proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                      average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                      think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                      specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                      and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.


                      --
                      Have Fun,
                      Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                      ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                      http://www.escapepod.org
                    • angelomandato
                      I m only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content evergreen. I m
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                        I'm only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow
                        include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content
                        evergreen. I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if there's
                        interest in such a feature.

                        There are new directories popping up all the time. www.spokenword.org is
                        one that comes to mind. It would benefit you greatly to get your podcast
                        on as many directories as possible. I wouldn't abandon the possibility
                        of a new listener, let alone the SEO value of being listed on another
                        web site, just because iTunes makes up a bulk of your audience.

                        Reversing my earlier thought, iTunes is very important and we should do
                        everything we can to include as many episodes as possible since iTunes
                        only lists episodes found in your feed.

                        The challenge will be preventing directories from seeing a change in
                        your older podcast feed items and then replacing the large description
                        with the shorter one. That may not be a big deal though and may actually
                        be a good thing as far as SEO for the podcaster's blog is concerned. The
                        less number of sites that re-post exactly what you posted on your own
                        blog the better. Such a feature could hurt SEO for directories though,
                        since as soon as a post is 11 episodes old, the description would update
                        to a smaller excerpt.

                        End users shouldn't be getting episodes twice, unless you do something
                        drastic that changes the title, guid or publish date. You can change the
                        number of items in your feed from 10 to 50, iTunes or Google Reader will
                        not view those older posts as new or re-order them above the newest
                        dated post/episode. As far as other directories are concerned, it will
                        require some testing and research. The additional items in the feed may
                        do exactly as you describe and re-list duplicate past posts on other
                        directories. At a worst case though, it should only do that once when
                        you extend the number of items in your feed. Small price to pay to
                        display all your episodes in iTunes.

                        I'm just looking to see if there's interest in such a feature. If no one
                        thinks it's a good idea then I will not waste any time researching it.

                        --angelo


                        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato cio@... wrote:
                        > > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what
                        happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking
                        about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was
                        thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the
                        <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>,
                        <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...
                        >
                        > Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                        > or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                        > I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                        > Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                        > probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                        > item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                        > gracefully.
                        >
                        >
                        > > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to
                        iTunes,
                        >
                        > According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                        > downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                        > typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                        > today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                        > syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?
                        >
                        >
                        > > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that
                        includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new
                        directory.
                        >
                        > To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                        > any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                        > podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                        > directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                        > other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                        > off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.
                        >
                        > Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                        > directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                        > _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                        > matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                        > Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.
                        >
                        > If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                        > new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                        > Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                        > proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                        > average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                        > think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                        > specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                        > and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Have Fun,
                        > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                        > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                        > http://www.escapepod.org
                        >
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