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Duplicate content problem?

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  • Michael B
    I ve got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I ve got a lot of episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a while an event in the
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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      I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious . So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.

      Thoughts/feedback welcome,

      Michael

      Michael Britt
      michael@...
      www.thepsychfiles.com
    • Ben Straw
      I was pondering the same thing the other day, What I would do is have 2 category s, one named Blog and the other Podcast, Then go though the old posts and set
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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        I was pondering the same thing the other day, What I would do is have 2 category's, one named Blog and the other Podcast, Then go though the old posts and set the posts to the correct category's. I don't know if your theme supports this but have a featured page that stickys the latest show at the top of the page.
        as far as the old podcasts getting lost in the blog cruft, the category listing should help anyone who JUST wants to find the podcasts then having sift though all the blog posts for them.

        Hope this info helps.

        Ben Straw
        Ben's Tech Show - http://www.BensTechShow.com
        How 2 Podcast - http://www.how2podcast.com
        Mac Tip Podcast - http://www.MacTipPodcast.com
        Phone: 1-304-449-GEEK
        Skype: n3bb3n
        Twitter: twitter.com/nebben




        ________________________________
        From: Michael B <michael.britt@...>
        To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 6:41:22 AM
        Subject: [podcasters] Duplicate content problem?


        I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious . So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.

        Thoughts/feedback welcome,

        Michael

        Michael Britt
        michael@thepsychfil es.com
        www.thepsychfiles. com







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Eley
        On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B ... I m not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the extent that I _think_ I understand it, it
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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          On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
          <michael.britt@...> wrote:
          > That's okay, right?  I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.

          I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
          extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
          you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
          first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
          duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
          choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
          It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to release
          the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
          shrug and skip one of them.



          --
          Have Fun,
          Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
          ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
          http://www.escapepod.org
        • Michael B
          Steve, What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking. My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and create a new post
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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            Steve,

            What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking. My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over to the podcast episode on my other site.


            Michael Britt
            michael@...
            www.thepsychfiles.com

            --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
            > <michael.britt@...> wrote:
            > > That's okay, right?  I remember hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
            >
            > I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
            > extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
            > you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
            > first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
            > duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
            > choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
            > It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to release
            > the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
            > shrug and skip one of them.
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Have Fun,
            > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
            > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
            > http://www.escapepod.org
            >
          • Stephen Eley
            Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you worried about? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Michael B
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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              Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
              worried about?

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
              > wrote:

              > Steve,
              >
              > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
              > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
              > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
              > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
              > to the podcast episode on my other site.
              >
              >
              > Michael Britt
              > michael@...
              > www.thepsychfiles.com
              >
              > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
              >>
              >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
              >> <michael.britt@...> wrote:
              >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
              >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
              >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
              >>
              >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
              >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
              >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
              >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
              >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
              >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
              >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
              >> release
              >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
              >> shrug and skip one of them.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> --
              >> Have Fun,
              >> Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
              >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
              >> http://www.escapepod.org
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Michael B
              Yea, I guess it s not really a duplicate content issue. It s more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that s okay. It s
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 1, 2009
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                Yea, I guess it's not really a duplicate content issue. It's more of a single person (me) using two sites to market one podcast. I guess that's okay. It's not like I'm putting keywords in white text against a white background or anything. Just trying to brainstorm on a new way to get more exposure and greater use of my back catalog.


                Michael Britt
                michael@...
                www.thepsychfiles.com

                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                >
                > Oh. In that case, what sort of duplicate content trouble are you
                > worried about?
                >
                > Sent from my iPhone
                >
                > On Nov 1, 2009, at 12:16 PM, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...
                > > wrote:
                >
                > > Steve,
                > >
                > > What you describe below is more ambitious than what I was thinking.
                > > My thought was to simply start a new blog (not a new podcast) and
                > > create a new post whenever a news event relates to one of my old
                > > podcast episodes. This post would be short and then just link over
                > > to the podcast episode on my other site.
                > >
                > >
                > > Michael Britt
                > > michael@...
                > > www.thepsychfiles.com
                > >
                > > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 7:41 AM, Michael B
                > >> <michael.britt@> wrote:
                > >>> That's okay, right? I remember hearing about the problem of
                > >>> "duplicate content" (which I don't fully understand) and I wasn't
                > >>> sure if this scenario fit that issue.
                > >>
                > >> I'm not _totally_ sure I understand your scenario here, but to the
                > >> extent that I _think_ I understand it, it shouldn't be a problem. If
                > >> you make a second podcast pointing to selected episodes from your
                > >> first podcast, what you'll have is two podcasts. People will get
                > >> duplicate episodes if they subscribe to both -- but that's a listener
                > >> choice, and not something I think anyone should get up in arms about.
                > >> It happens to me occasionally when two podcasts I subscribe to
                > >> release
                > >> the same content (e.g., one podcaster interviews another) and I just
                > >> shrug and skip one of them.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> --
                > >> Have Fun,
                > >> Steve Eley (sfeley@)
                > >> ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                > >> http://www.escapepod.org
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • angelomandato
                I ve been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit to 50 items per
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                  I've been thinking about this for a few months now. The problem is with
                  the feeds getting crowded with so much content you have to set a limit
                  to 50 items per feed or else the feed size exceeds 500K. You definitely
                  don't want your feed to exceed this size, directories and even
                  FeedBurner will complain that the feed is too large or/and that it takes
                  too long to download.

                  I've been thinking about adding an option to Blubrry PowerPress
                  <http://www.blubrry.com/powerpress/> (Podcasting plugin for WordPress)
                  to provide an extended, slimmed down podcast feed. Basically if you can
                  trim down the amount of information in the feed, your feed could include
                  a lot more post items. I know there is value in having full post
                  descriptions and iTunes tags such as keywords, subtitle, summary,
                  explicit, etc... but if there was an option to trim this information
                  after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                  feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                  content in the feed. What would be a good threshold, first 10 include
                  all the tags, then 11-500 include shorter summaries and only the
                  essential iTunes tags? Would this need to be a setting each podcaster
                  could decide? Anyone have any thoughts?

                  --angelo


                  --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Michael B" <michael.britt@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I've got an idea I wanted to get some feedback on. I've got a lot of
                  episodes now (108) and the episodes are evergreen. Every once in a
                  while an event in the news will relate to an old episode, but because
                  there are so many of them I fear that the older ones are getting lost in
                  the Wordpress blog and the connection to the news event isn't obvious .
                  So what about this: what if I start up another web site in which I
                  briefly write about the current event and then point visitors to the
                  relevant episode on my main site? That's okay, right? I remember
                  hearing about the problem of "duplicate content" (which I don't fully
                  understand) and I wasn't sure if this scenario fit that issue.
                  >
                  > Thoughts/feedback welcome,
                  >
                  > Michael
                  >
                  > Michael Britt
                  > michael@...
                  > www.thepsychfiles.com
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stephen Eley
                  ... There s an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine whether an item element has
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                    On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
                    > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                    > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                    > content in the feed.

                    There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
                    newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
                    whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
                    GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
                    elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
                    episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
                    Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
                    blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
                    required elements or update timestamps.)

                    I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
                    items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
                    podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
                    behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
                    want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
                    testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
                    RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
                    feeds.


                    --
                    Have Fun,
                    Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                    ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                    http://www.escapepod.org
                  • angelomandato
                    You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn t thinking about the basic
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                      You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc... Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes, on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

                      Anymore thoughts/suggestions?


                      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:01 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > ...but if there was an option to trim this information
                      > > after say the first 10 episodes it would allow you to set your items per
                      > > feed setting to something like 500, which would keep your evergreen
                      > > content in the feed.
                      >
                      > There's an obvious risk in altering old RSS items. Different
                      > newsreaders and podcatchers use different heuristics to determine
                      > whether an item element has been updated. Some simply look at the
                      > GUID or pubDate, but many will raise an item as new again if *any*
                      > elements in it change. Witness the classic problem in iTunes of old
                      > episodes re-downloading after a podcaster messes with his/her
                      > Wordpress settings. (I think Dave Winer deserves a fair amount of
                      > blame for this, for making such a loose item specification with no
                      > required elements or update timestamps.)
                      >
                      > I'm not saying for sure that doing what you suggest, collapsing old
                      > items after a certain age, would create a problem in any major
                      > podcatcher or RSS reader. I've never done a structured test of RSS
                      > behavior in iTunes or anything else. But I *suspect* it would. If you
                      > want to pursue this I would absolutely, positively recommend thorough
                      > testing in all software agents that have more than 0.1% penetration in
                      > RawVoice's aggregate stats before making any changes to anybody's
                      > feeds.
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Have Fun,
                      > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                      > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                      > http://www.escapepod.org
                      >
                    • Stephen Eley
                      ... Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements. I ve never
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                        On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato <cio@...> wrote:
                        > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>, <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...

                        Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                        or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                        I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                        Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                        probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                        item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                        gracefully.


                        > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to iTunes,

                        According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                        downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                        typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                        today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                        syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?


                        > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new directory.

                        To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                        any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                        podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                        directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                        other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                        off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.

                        Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                        directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                        _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                        matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                        Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.

                        If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                        new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                        Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                        proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                        average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                        think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                        specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                        and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.


                        --
                        Have Fun,
                        Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                        ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                        http://www.escapepod.org
                      • angelomandato
                        I m only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content evergreen. I m
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 2, 2009
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                          I'm only brainstorming here and looking for ideas how we could somehow
                          include all/most episodes in a feed for someone to keep their content
                          evergreen. I'm just throwing an idea out there to see if there's
                          interest in such a feature.

                          There are new directories popping up all the time. www.spokenword.org is
                          one that comes to mind. It would benefit you greatly to get your podcast
                          on as many directories as possible. I wouldn't abandon the possibility
                          of a new listener, let alone the SEO value of being listed on another
                          web site, just because iTunes makes up a bulk of your audience.

                          Reversing my earlier thought, iTunes is very important and we should do
                          everything we can to include as many episodes as possible since iTunes
                          only lists episodes found in your feed.

                          The challenge will be preventing directories from seeing a change in
                          your older podcast feed items and then replacing the large description
                          with the shorter one. That may not be a big deal though and may actually
                          be a good thing as far as SEO for the podcaster's blog is concerned. The
                          less number of sites that re-post exactly what you posted on your own
                          blog the better. Such a feature could hurt SEO for directories though,
                          since as soon as a post is 11 episodes old, the description would update
                          to a smaller excerpt.

                          End users shouldn't be getting episodes twice, unless you do something
                          drastic that changes the title, guid or publish date. You can change the
                          number of items in your feed from 10 to 50, iTunes or Google Reader will
                          not view those older posts as new or re-order them above the newest
                          dated post/episode. As far as other directories are concerned, it will
                          require some testing and research. The additional items in the feed may
                          do exactly as you describe and re-list duplicate past posts on other
                          directories. At a worst case though, it should only do that once when
                          you extend the number of items in your feed. Small price to pay to
                          display all your episodes in iTunes.

                          I'm just looking to see if there's interest in such a feature. If no one
                          thinks it's a good idea then I will not waste any time researching it.

                          --angelo


                          --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Eley <SFEley@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:10 AM, angelomandato cio@... wrote:
                          > > You are correct, such a feature would require testing to see what
                          happens on directories. As far as trimming content, I wasn't thinking
                          about the basic attributes such as title, guid, pubDate, etc... I was
                          thinking about items like content:encoded, limiting the value in the
                          <description>, removing the <itunes:keywords>, <itunes:summary>,
                          <itunes:subtitle>, <itunes:duration>, etc...
                          >
                          > Sure. But my point is that a lot of clients will mark the item as new
                          > or updated if *anything* changes. Including those iTunes elements.
                          > I've never looked into any clients' RSS implementations except Podcast
                          > Ready's (which I helped build), but if I were building one today I'd
                          > probably store the MD5 checksum of the normalized contents of every
                          > item. RSS really wasn't designed to allow changing history
                          > gracefully.
                          >
                          >
                          > > Even so, you may not not want this feed to be what you submit to
                          iTunes,
                          >
                          > According to my RawVoice stats, iTunes comprises 83.5% of my RSS
                          > downloads. Second place is Zune with 2.7%. I don't know if those are
                          > typical proportions, but they're probably not too far off given
                          > today's media device landscape. So, to put it bluntly... If a
                          > syndication feature isn't going to work in iTunes, why bother?
                          >
                          >
                          > > on the flip side though it would be useful to have such a feed that
                          includes everything when you want to add your podcast to a new
                          directory.
                          >
                          > To be even more blunt: *what* new directories? Listeners aren't using
                          > any other directories. For the average non-podcaster who listens to
                          > podcasts, just about every new discovery comes from the iTunes
                          > directory, Google, or word-of-mouth. (Which includes promotion from
                          > other podcasts.) Every other directory and search engine is so far
                          > off in the long tail it isn't worth development time to support.
                          >
                          > Besides -- how does that solve the client problem? Let's say a
                          > directory _does_ list the collapsed feed, and it works there. When I
                          > _subscribe_ to the podcast feed, the directory stops mattering. What
                          > matters is whether my podcatcher/newsreader (Firefox, Juice, Google
                          > Reader) knows to ignore changes to the element contents of old items.
                          >
                          > If it doesn't, I'd start getting every episode twice: once when it's
                          > new, and again months later when it becomes the 10th oldest episode.
                          > Once or twice is a forgivable technical glitch, but under your
                          > proposal this would happen *every time.* For every episode. As an
                          > average podcast listener, I wouldn't put up with this. I wouldn't
                          > think to blame RawVoice for this, or my software, or the RSS
                          > specification. I would assume the podcaster is screwing something up,
                          > and if it didn't stop soon, I'd unsubscribe.
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Have Fun,
                          > Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                          > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                          > http://www.escapepod.org
                          >
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