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Re: Field recorder

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  • Mike Sharpe
    ... I ve had to buy stuff for my Bro s Band up a few times. This is jist of it. Remember that I m a Non-Techie here, this may not be 100% Correct. I posted
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 1, 2009
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      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Michael Johnson <serviceyourac@...> wrote:
      >
      > Unfortunately I have no idea what XLR or phantom power is.I just need a recorder that records excellent sound for interviews. I guess I have some research to do.
      >
      > Thanks
      > Mike
      > Learn the secrets to staying pure on campus in:
      > The Cross Campus Ministry Podcast,
      > A Podcast for Christian College Students and youth in itunes and at crosscampusministry.com
      >
      >
      >

      I've had to buy stuff for my Bro's Band up a few times. This is jist of it. Remember that I'm a Non-Techie here, this may not be 100% Correct. I posted some links to help.

      Good Mics need a bit of power to pick up sound, I've come across a Mike with a battery in it. Phantom power draws the power out of the other end (such as the recording Device or Sound desk.) The power apparently comes from nowhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_power

      OK, I assume you're extremely familiar with the 3.5mm jack in your personal stereo equipment. You should recognise the 1/4 inch version that is used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector

      These leads have one problem particularly if you're doing long distances, interference. XLR is a totally Different plug and is designed to prevent most of the interference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

      Mike
      No Podcast Yet!
      Twitter - bignutter
    • Ed Morgan
      This is my understanding of these two, phantom power refers to the power certain mics get through the mixer. Not all mics are phantom powered, but if the one
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 2, 2009
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        This is my understanding of these two, phantom power refers to the power certain mics get through the mixer. Not all mics are phantom powered, but if the one you have or want is, you will need a mixer that provides it for the mic. As for XLR, that is simply the type of cable connector most mics use. If I am wrong on these, I welcome anyone to correct me on this.

        Ed


        From: Mike Sharpe
        Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:58 PM
        To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [podcasters] Re: Field recorder


        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Michael Johnson <serviceyourac@...> wrote:
        >
        > Unfortunately I have no idea what XLR or phantom power is.I just need a recorder that records excellent sound for interviews. I guess I have some research to do.
        >
        > Thanks
        > Mike
        > Learn the secrets to staying pure on campus in:
        > The Cross Campus Ministry Podcast,
        > A Podcast for Christian College Students and youth in itunes and at crosscampusministry.com
        >
        >
        >

        I've had to buy stuff for my Bro's Band up a few times. This is jist of it. Remember that I'm a Non-Techie here, this may not be 100% Correct. I posted some links to help.

        Good Mics need a bit of power to pick up sound, I've come across a Mike with a battery in it. Phantom power draws the power out of the other end (such as the recording Device or Sound desk.) The power apparently comes from nowhere. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_power

        OK, I assume you're extremely familiar with the 3.5mm jack in your personal stereo equipment. You should recognise the 1/4 inch version that is used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector

        These leads have one problem particularly if you're doing long distances, interference. XLR is a totally Different plug and is designed to prevent most of the interference. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector

        Mike
        No Podcast Yet!
        Twitter - bignutter





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Richard Amirault
        ... From: Ed Morgan ... There are dynamic mics, which do not require any external, or internal, power .. and there are electret/capacitor mics that *do*
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 2, 2009
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ed Morgan"


          > This is my understanding of these two, phantom power refers to the power
          > certain mics get through the mixer. Not all mics are phantom powered, but
          > if the one you have or want is, you will need a mixer that provides it for
          > the mic. As for XLR, that is simply the type of cable connector most mics
          > use. If I am wrong on these, I welcome anyone to correct me on this.

          There are dynamic mics, which do not require any external, or internal,
          power .. and there are electret/capacitor mics that *do* require some power
          to work. Sometimes this is supplied by an internal battery, but if not, then
          it needs to be supplied thru the mic cable. This voltage can vary depending
          on the type of mic. "Professional" mics use 48 volt "phantom power"

          The XLR connector is a 3 pin connector that is used on "professional" mics.
          I don't know if I would agree that "most mics" use it, but certainly a large
          percentage of mics do. There are other mic connectors used in the world
          today ... a 1/4" plug and the 1/8" plug are two. I believe the mic
          connector in the Edirol R-09 is 1/8" stereo (the same as many camcorders)

          Richard Amirault
          Boston, MA, USA
          http://n1jdu.org
          http://bostonfandom.org
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hf9u2ZdlQ
        • Kelly Pierce
          A few years ago I bought a Sony minidisc recorder. I use the Sony MZ-b100 for all my field recording. With the L2 setting, I can record slightly more than
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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            A few years ago I bought a Sony minidisc recorder. I use the Sony MZ-b100
            for all my field recording. With the L2 setting, I can record slightly
            more than 2.5 hours of audio at a time. I use and prefer a dynamic
            microphone so phantom power is not an issue for me. What I like about this
            recorder and the recordings of most minidisc recorders is the very low
            noise floor. There is very little noise created by the recorder itself on
            the recording. By contrast, the Zoom recorders have noticeable noise
            floors. When even the new N4 was compared to minidisc, the noise floor was
            much better compared to the other Zoom recorders but still noticeable
            compared to minidisc.

            I have been disappointed with digital field recorders because the sound
            floor is much higher and they seem not to be of the same quality of
            minidisc recorders of the same price range. I have been looking out for
            recorders in the event I need to replace my minidisc recorder. I admit
            that real-time transfer to a computer required by the minidisc technology
            is a hassle at times. I would prefer a digital recorder if the experience
            to the listener would be comparable to minidisc and my wallet would not be
            strenuously wounded. I believe the Sony PCM D50 comes closest to the
            minidisc sound at a pricepoint that is similar to the cost of my minidisc
            recorder, when adjusted for inflation.

            If you want quality recordings, consider this recorder. I believe the Zoom
            recorders create excessive background noise. The downside of the Sony PCM
            D50 is that it uses four double A batteries to power itself compared to the
            single double A battery of minidisc recorders. I consider this a minor
            negative when the ability to have quality .wav recording at an affordable
            price is considered.

            Kelly
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Richard Amirault" <ramirault@...>
            To: <podcasters@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:20 PM
            Subject: Re: [podcasters] Field recorder


            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Martin McKeay"
            >
            >> If phantom power and XLR are important to you, take a look at the Zoom
            >> H4.
            >> It's a lot cheaper and can be used with a wide variety of mics. Plus it
            >> looks like a tazer and can be used to scare off muggers as well as
            >> potential
            >> interviewees.
            >
            > Of course there are now two versions of the H4 out there .. the original
            > and
            > the new, improved H4n
            >
            > http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1994
            >
            > Richard Amirault
            > Boston, MA, USA
            > http://n1jdu.org
            > http://bostonfandom.org
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hf9u2ZdlQ
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Martin McKeay
            Most often when I m recording with the Zoom H4, it s in a crowded convention hall and the last thing I m worried about is the sound floor of the Zoom. Not to
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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              Most often when I'm recording with the Zoom H4, it's in a crowded convention
              hall and the last thing I'm worried about is the sound floor of the Zoom.
              Not to discount that this is an important issue to some, but for my
              purposes, it's a non-issue. It's wasn't even one of the things I was
              thinking about when I got the H4. I will say that I find the built in mics
              on the H4 to be nearly unusable due to their sensitivity, but coupled with a
              Shure PG58, the Zoom is a great portable podcasting rig for me. For the my
              micropodcasting rig, I use an iRiver 795 with a Giant Squid stereo mic. The
              combo looks like someone's pipe at first glance. It's also incredibly
              sensitive, but when I need something in an emergency, it works. I will
              admit I'm usually more worried about just getting the interview or
              conversation than I am about the quality.

              Martin

              Martin McKeay, CISSP, QSA, GSNA
              Host of the Network Security Blog and Podcast
              http://www.mckeay.net
              Cell: 707-495-7926


              On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Kelly Pierce <kellytalk@...> wrote:

              > A few years ago I bought a Sony minidisc recorder. I use the Sony MZ-b100
              > for all my field recording. With the L2 setting, I can record slightly
              > more than 2.5 hours of audio at a time. I use and prefer a dynamic
              > microphone so phantom power is not an issue for me. What I like about this
              > recorder and the recordings of most minidisc recorders is the very low
              > noise floor. There is very little noise created by the recorder itself on
              > the recording. By contrast, the Zoom recorders have noticeable noise
              > floors. When even the new N4 was compared to minidisc, the noise floor was
              > much better compared to the other Zoom recorders but still noticeable
              > compared to minidisc.
              >
              > I have been disappointed with digital field recorders because the sound
              > floor is much higher and they seem not to be of the same quality of
              > minidisc recorders of the same price range. I have been looking out for
              > recorders in the event I need to replace my minidisc recorder. I admit
              > that real-time transfer to a computer required by the minidisc technology
              > is a hassle at times. I would prefer a digital recorder if the experience
              > to the listener would be comparable to minidisc and my wallet would not be
              > strenuously wounded. I believe the Sony PCM D50 comes closest to the
              > minidisc sound at a pricepoint that is similar to the cost of my minidisc
              > recorder, when adjusted for inflation.
              >
              > If you want quality recordings, consider this recorder. I believe the Zoom
              > recorders create excessive background noise. The downside of the Sony PCM
              > D50 is that it uses four double A batteries to power itself compared to the
              > single double A battery of minidisc recorders. I consider this a minor
              > negative when the ability to have quality .wav recording at an affordable
              > price is considered.
              >
              > Kelly
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Rich Wielgosz
              On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 20:05 -0700, Martin McKeay wrote: For the price the H4 is awesome. Rich...
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 4, 2009
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                On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 20:05 -0700, Martin McKeay wrote:

                For the price the H4 is awesome.

                Rich...

                > Most often when I'm recording with the Zoom H4, it's in a crowded
                > convention
                > hall and the last thing I'm worried about is the sound floor of the
                > Zoom.
                > Not to discount that this is an important issue to some, but for my
                > purposes, it's a non-issue. It's wasn't even one of the things I was
                > thinking about when I got the H4. I will say that I find the built in
                > mics
                > on the H4 to be nearly unusable due to their sensitivity, but coupled
                > with a
                > Shure PG58, the Zoom is a great portable podcasting rig for me. For
                > the my
                > micropodcasting rig, I use an iRiver 795 with a Giant Squid stereo
                > mic. The
                > combo looks like someone's pipe at first glance. It's also incredibly
                > sensitive, but when I need something in an emergency, it works. I will
                > admit I'm usually more worried about just getting the interview or
                > conversation than I am about the quality.
                >
                > Martin
                >
                > Martin McKeay, CISSP, QSA, GSNA
                > Host of the Network Security Blog and Podcast
                > http://www.mckeay.net
                > Cell: 707-495-7926
                >
                > On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Kelly Pierce <kellytalk@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                > > A few years ago I bought a Sony minidisc recorder. I use the Sony
                > MZ-b100
                > > for all my field recording. With the L2 setting, I can record
                > slightly
                > > more than 2.5 hours of audio at a time. I use and prefer a dynamic
                > > microphone so phantom power is not an issue for me. What I like
                > about this
                > > recorder and the recordings of most minidisc recorders is the very
                > low
                > > noise floor. There is very little noise created by the recorder
                > itself on
                > > the recording. By contrast, the Zoom recorders have noticeable noise
                > > floors. When even the new N4 was compared to minidisc, the noise
                > floor was
                > > much better compared to the other Zoom recorders but still
                > noticeable
                > > compared to minidisc.
                > >
                > > I have been disappointed with digital field recorders because the
                > sound
                > > floor is much higher and they seem not to be of the same quality of
                > > minidisc recorders of the same price range. I have been looking out
                > for
                > > recorders in the event I need to replace my minidisc recorder. I
                > admit
                > > that real-time transfer to a computer required by the minidisc
                > technology
                > > is a hassle at times. I would prefer a digital recorder if the
                > experience
                > > to the listener would be comparable to minidisc and my wallet would
                > not be
                > > strenuously wounded. I believe the Sony PCM D50 comes closest to the
                > > minidisc sound at a pricepoint that is similar to the cost of my
                > minidisc
                > > recorder, when adjusted for inflation.
                > >
                > > If you want quality recordings, consider this recorder. I believe
                > the Zoom
                > > recorders create excessive background noise. The downside of the
                > Sony PCM
                > > D50 is that it uses four double A batteries to power itself compared
                > to the
                > > single double A battery of minidisc recorders. I consider this a
                > minor
                > > negative when the ability to have quality .wav recording at an
                > affordable
                > > price is considered.
                > >
                > > Kelly
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Richard Amirault
                ... From: Kelly Pierce ... Yes, but ... your minidisc recorder has a major flaw .. you cannot access the digital recording .. other than playing it back, in
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Kelly Pierce"


                  >A few years ago I bought a Sony minidisc recorder. I use the Sony MZ-b100
                  > for all my field recording. With the L2 setting, I can record slightly
                  > more than 2.5 hours of audio at a time. I use and prefer a dynamic
                  > microphone so phantom power is not an issue for me. What I like about
                  > this
                  > recorder and the recordings of most minidisc recorders is the very low
                  > noise floor. There is very little noise created by the recorder itself on
                  > the recording.

                  Yes, but ... your minidisc recorder has a major flaw .. you cannot access
                  the digital recording .. other than playing it back, in real time, in
                  analog, thru the speaker jack.

                  Richard Amirault
                  Boston, MA, USA
                  http://n1jdu.org
                  http://bostonfandom.org
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hf9u2ZdlQ
                • andrew clarke
                  ... I m not sure I d call that a flaw as such. The lack of access to the digital recording was by design. That is, assuming there is no digital output on the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                    On Sun 2009-04-05 10:13:09 UTC-0400, Richard Amirault (ramirault@...) wrote:

                    > > A few years ago I bought a Sony minidisc recorder. I use the Sony
                    > > MZ-b100 for all my field recording. With the L2 setting, I can record
                    > > slightly more than 2.5 hours of audio at a time. I use and prefer a
                    > > dynamic microphone so phantom power is not an issue for me. What I
                    > > like about this recorder and the recordings of most minidisc recorders
                    > > is the very low noise floor. There is very little noise created by
                    > > the recorder itself on the recording.
                    >
                    > Yes, but ... your minidisc recorder has a major flaw .. you cannot
                    > access the digital recording .. other than playing it back, in real
                    > time, in analog, thru the speaker jack.

                    I'm not sure I'd call that a flaw as such. The lack of access to the
                    digital recording was by design. That is, assuming there is no
                    digital output on the MD player. And even if there was, the audio on
                    MiniDiscs is recorded using the ATRAC codec and so would need to be
                    converted on-the-fly to a raw PCM signal before any editing could be
                    done on a PC.

                    Otherwise, you're stuck with doing a digital-to-analog-to-digital
                    transfer, where the analog stage will raise the noise floor, probably
                    negating any advantage you gained.

                    Many DAT recorders have digital output, and their recordings are
                    already stored as raw PCM. However DAT has its own problems, mostly
                    related to the use of magnetic tape.

                    There is also Digital Compact Cassette (DCC), which is even less
                    practical than DAT, but may be historically interesting. :-)

                    Regards
                    Andrew
                  • Will Brown
                    ... Wow, now that s old-school OG podcasting gear right there! For you newbies out there, the iRiver/Giant Squid setup was the preferred configuration for
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                      On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Martin McKeay <Martin@...> wrote:
                      > For the my
                      > micropodcasting rig, I use an iRiver 795 with a Giant Squid stereo mic. The
                      > combo looks like someone's pipe at first glance. It's also incredibly
                      > sensitive, but when I need something in an emergency, it works.

                      Wow, now that's old-school OG podcasting gear right there!
                      For you newbies out there, the iRiver/Giant Squid setup was the
                      preferred configuration for field recording for the majority of
                      podcasters back in 2005 before Zoom, Edirol, etc came to market.
                      I still have mine tucked away in my bag just in case Armageddon breaks
                      out and I have to the Ham radio of podcasting.
                      Ah...the memories. :-)

                      Will

                      ======================
                      http://www.WillBrownOnline.com/ - All Things Me
                      http://www.CloudyDayArt.com - Poetry Podcast
                    • Martin McKeay
                      At three and a half years and going, mine is one of the oldest security podcasts. Security Now with Leo and Steve started almost exactly six months before my
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 5, 2009
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                        At three and a half years and going, mine is one of the oldest security
                        podcasts. Security Now with Leo and Steve started almost exactly six months
                        before my podcast did and the Pauldotcom podcast started literally within a
                        couple of days of when I started. So there's a good reason I have some 'old
                        school' equipment.

                        It turned out to be a good thing that I had the iRiver last year. I had an
                        opportunity to talk to DHS Secretary Chertoff and when I got to the event I
                        realized the batteries on my Zoom were dead and I didn't have spares. The
                        iRiver only takes one battery and I was able to capture the whole discussion
                        with just a little power to spare. The moral: Always have a backup. And
                        preferably a backup of your backup.

                        Martin

                        Martin McKeay, CISSP, QSA, GSNA
                        Host of the Network Security Blog and Podcast
                        http://www.mckeay.net
                        Cell: 707-495-7926


                        On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Will Brown <cloudydayart@...> wrote:

                        > On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Martin McKeay <Martin@...> wrote:
                        > > For the my
                        > > micropodcasting rig, I use an iRiver 795 with a Giant Squid stereo mic.
                        > The
                        > > combo looks like someone's pipe at first glance. It's also incredibly
                        > > sensitive, but when I need something in an emergency, it works.
                        >
                        > Wow, now that's old-school OG podcasting gear right there!
                        > For you newbies out there, the iRiver/Giant Squid setup was the
                        > preferred configuration for field recording for the majority of
                        > podcasters back in 2005 before Zoom, Edirol, etc came to market.
                        > I still have mine tucked away in my bag just in case Armageddon breaks
                        > out and I have to the Ham radio of podcasting.
                        > Ah...the memories. :-)
                        >
                        > Will
                        >
                        > ======================
                        > http://www.WillBrownOnline.com/ - All Things Me
                        > http://www.CloudyDayArt.com - Poetry Podcast
                        >
                        >
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                        >
                        > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


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