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Re: "Unfortunately" I sell stuff on my site

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  • nycedeli
    Ed, I hear you and I agree 100% with what you said. You also can t underestimate the jealousy factor. In the 18 months that I ve been podcasting, I ve gotten
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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      Ed,
      I hear you and I agree 100% with what you said. You also can't underestimate the jealousy factor. In the 18 months that I've been podcasting, I've gotten more genuine support from complete strangers who have discovered my podcast by accident than from acquaintances who have blogs in the same niche as mine who I met before becoming a podcaster. Some people can be extremely petty and get jealous easily. They see someone in their topic of interest having some measure of success or striving to improve and they get threatened by that.

      Also, I think sometimes when people see a web site that they know is owned by an individual, they assume that it's "just a hobby" or a pasttime for the person producing the content. So they become indignant and their initial reaction is "why should I have to pay for something that some guy did in his spare time? Nobody pays me for my hobbies!" I think this is why there are so many successful internet marketers out there these days because people are hungry for ways to monetize their online content and to stand out in any way that they can. You know how they say "content is king"? Well, that's a bit of a lie because a blog can have great content and still not be generating any revenue!


      Anyway, Ed Morgan, best of luck to you. Do what you have to do to make your dream a reality!!


      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Morgan" <parrotflock@...> wrote:
      >
      > I am in the process of starting a new podcast myself, and am planning to add a shop that will support my efforts. I know that there will always be those few that feel it is somehow wrong to sell anything on the web. I plan to find a way to monetize the podcast from the start, and hopefully get some support. I have put a lot of time into this, and this is all I do. I have run a help group for parrot owners for over eight years, and have gathered a lot of information in that time, and that is what the podcast is about. But every time I did anything on the group that required users to pay anything within the group, there were always complaints. Even when it was obvious there were costs on my end that I needed to cover. I don't know why some people assume that everything on the web must be free or it is a scam. Nothing in life is that way. People pay for satellite radio, cable TV and every other form of communicate out there. Yet when they get on the Internet, and they see you are trying to charge a small fee to compensate yourself a small amount for the hours of hard work you put into something, they immediately jump on you and call you a scam artist. Since when has it become wrong to want to earn a few extra bucks? No one is forcing them to buy something, and there is even a free version available to them. I just don't understand that thought process at all. I feel lucky to get anything for free, and feel people have the right to ask for compensation anytime they put something out of value. It doesn't matter what went into the production, if it is worth the money, there is nothing wrong with asking for a reasonable price for it.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Ed
      > Parrot Hut (coming soon)
      > http://www.parrothut.com
      >
      >
      >
      > From: nycedeli
      > Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 5:08 AM
      > To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [podcasters] Re: "Unfortunately" I sell stuff on my site
      >
      >
      > I'm arriving late to this discussion but I wanted to add my thoughts, especially since I can relate to Michael's frustration.
      >
      > The fact that podcasting has a low barrier to entry and anyone with a mic and a computer can make one, there exists a false impression that producing a podcast is quick and easy work. A lot of people don't realize that for most podcasts, only a small fraction of listeners will donate money or make a purchase.
      >
      > A few months ago I did a joint podcast with another podcaster in my niche, which is related to learning a foreign language. We spent several weeks working on the content of the podcast and split the final recording into two excellent episodes. The first week that Part 1 was online, I made a complete word-for-word transcript available for free on my web site. When I released Part 2 a week later, I then charged a fee for people to access the entire transcript for parts 1 and 2. The audio was still free but if anyone wanted to read a word-for-word transcript, I was asking them to pay $2.50. Would you believe that there were people who left comments on my blog asking why I was charging for the transcript? I couldn't believe it. I wrote back explaining that the two-part episode had required a lot of planning and organization and that I wasn't charging for the audio but for the transcript, which required additional time and effort to transcribe, etc. I then said that if someone thought that $2.50 was too much money to get a document that would deepen their understanding of the audio content, well, they didn't have to pay it.
      >
      > I think Michael should say something to that other blogger. Use the contact as an opportunity to educate the other blogger that there is more than one way to monetize a site. Not everyone wants to monetize their site with Adsense.
      >
      > I think too many people have been conditioned to believe that if it's on the web, it has to be free. Unfortunately it seems that the way to make money on the web is to be a hypemaster, setting up artificial scarcity and deadlines in which to make the purchase. It seems like that's the only thing that works on the web. But if you have a stable site offering a quality product month after month, you're not going to make any sales if you don't have the "Buy in the next 24 hours because we can't keep this offer up forever!!!" type of hype.
      >
      > o people who don't make podcasts think--- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "mbritt1216" <michael.britt@> wrote:
      > >
      > > The other day I was checking a blog that just put posted a link to my
      > > site. The blog post was positive except for one part which, as they
      > > say, has really stuck in my "craw". After saying positive things
      > > about my site, the author mentions that "unfortunately" I sell things
      > > on my site. I sell two things on my site: a PDF (for $4.99) and a CD
      > > of past episodes. All the rest - 86 episodes which constitutes over
      > > 50 hours of free podcasts, plus show notes and links - like all the
      > > rest of us here on the podcast group. All of this is free. The stuff
      > > I sell helps pay (a little bit) for hosting and other costs.
      > >
      > > It just really annoys me that the author should have to say
      > > "unfortunately" even though so much stuff on my site is free. And one
      > > final thing: his blog contained Google ads.
      > >
      > > Why does this attitude still persist?
      > >
      > > Michael
      > > www.thepsychfiles.com
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Braindouche!
      ... I m not sure that s true. Another model that seems to work, at least for iTunes, iPhone apps, and recently Wil Wheaton and android apps, is to appeal to
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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        Nycedeli said:

        > I think too many people have been conditioned to believe that if it's on the
        > web, it has to be free. Unfortunately it seems that the way to make money on
        > the web is to be a hypemaster, setting up artificial scarcity and deadlines
        > in which to make the purchase. It seems like that's the only thing that
        > works on the web.

        I'm not sure that's true. Another model that seems to work, at least
        for iTunes, iPhone apps, and recently Wil Wheaton and android apps, is
        to appeal to people's sense of lazy and provide something that could
        be pirated for free for a low price in a convenient manner. Granted,
        you need a large audience to make this method profitable, but tell me
        any method on the net that doesn't need a large audience to be
        profitable that doesn't involve ebay and a yardsale miracle.

        This seems to apply to digital products in the under-5-dollar range.
        Make it good and make it easy to get and make it cheap enough that
        folks will choose to throw the pocket change at you to save some time.

        ~Mer
        braindouche.net


        On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:08 AM, nycedeli <lavenividivici@...> wrote:
        > I'm arriving late to this discussion but I wanted to add my thoughts,
        > especially since I can relate to Michael's frustration.
        >
        > The fact that podcasting has a low barrier to entry and anyone with a mic
        > and a computer can make one, there exists a false impression that producing
        > a podcast is quick and easy work. A lot of people don't realize that for
        > most podcasts, only a small fraction of listeners will donate money or make
        > a purchase.
        >
        > A few months ago I did a joint podcast with another podcaster in my niche,
        > which is related to learning a foreign language. We spent several weeks
        > working on the content of the podcast and split the final recording into two
        > excellent episodes. The first week that Part 1 was online, I made a complete
        > word-for-word transcript available for free on my web site. When I released
        > Part 2 a week later, I then charged a fee for people to access the entire
        > transcript for parts 1 and 2. The audio was still free but if anyone wanted
        > to read a word-for-word transcript, I was asking them to pay $2.50. Would
        > you believe that there were people who left comments on my blog asking why I
        > was charging for the transcript? I couldn't believe it. I wrote back
        > explaining that the two-part episode had required a lot of planning and
        > organization and that I wasn't charging for the audio but for the
        > transcript, which required additional time and effort to transcribe, etc. I
        > then said that if someone thought that $2.50 was too much money to get a
        > document that would deepen their understanding of the audio content, well,
        > they didn't have to pay it.
        >
        > I think Michael should say something to that other blogger. Use the contact
        > as an opportunity to educate the other blogger that there is more than one
        > way to monetize a site. Not everyone wants to monetize their site with
        > Adsense.
        >
        > I think too many people have been conditioned to believe that if it's on the
        > web, it has to be free. Unfortunately it seems that the way to make money on
        > the web is to be a hypemaster, setting up artificial scarcity and deadlines
        > in which to make the purchase. It seems like that's the only thing that
        > works on the web. But if you have a stable site offering a quality product
        > month after month, you're not going to make any sales if you don't have the
        > "Buy in the next 24 hours because we can't keep this offer up forever!!!"
        > type of hype.
        >
        > o people who don't make podcasts think--- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com,
        > "mbritt1216" <michael.britt@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> The other day I was checking a blog that just put posted a link to my
        >> site. The blog post was positive except for one part which, as they
        >> say, has really stuck in my "craw". After saying positive things
        >> about my site, the author mentions that "unfortunately" I sell things
        >> on my site. I sell two things on my site: a PDF (for $4.99) and a CD
        >> of past episodes. All the rest - 86 episodes which constitutes over
        >> 50 hours of free podcasts, plus show notes and links - like all the
        >> rest of us here on the podcast group. All of this is free. The stuff
        >> I sell helps pay (a little bit) for hosting and other costs.
        >>
        >> It just really annoys me that the author should have to say
        >> "unfortunately" even though so much stuff on my site is free. And one
        >> final thing: his blog contained Google ads.
        >>
        >> Why does this attitude still persist?
        >>
        >> Michael
        >> www.thepsychfiles.com
        >>
        >
        >
      • Matthew Wayne Selznick
        ... Not true. Create excellent, valuable content that appeals to a niche market, and you will make money. The artificial deadline / artificial scarcity model
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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          Nycedeli said:
          >> web, it has to be free. Unfortunately it seems that the way to make money
          >> on the web is to be a hypemaster, setting up artificial scarcity and
          >> deadlines in which to make the purchase. It seems like that's the only thing that
          >> works on the web.

          Not true. Create excellent, valuable content that appeals to a niche
          market, and you will make money.

          The artificial deadline / artificial scarcity model is most commonly
          used by network marketers of the sort commonly found on ClickBank.
          You can recognize them by their brochure-style one-page "sales letter"
          websites. They're the Internet version of Billy Mays on US
          television: loud, obnoxious, overblown infomercials. They are *not*
          the only way to go.

          Braindouche! wrote:
          > to appeal to people's sense of lazy and provide something that could
          > be pirated for free for a low price in a convenient manner. Granted,
          > you need a large audience to make this method profitable, but tell me
          > any method on the net that doesn't need a large audience to be
          > profitable that doesn't involve ebay and a yardsale miracle.

          Again, target your niche, large or small, and you'll sell your stuff.
          You don't need a large audience, you need the *right* audience. If
          you're selling electronic goods, it's almost all profit.

          > This seems to apply to digital products in the under-5-dollar range.
          > Make it good and make it easy to get and make it cheap enough that
          > folks will choose to throw the pocket change at you to save some time.

          Exactly. I sell e-books. Novel length works go for $5.00, short
          stories for $0.99. The e-book versions of my first book, "Brave Men
          Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era" on average sell more than the
          paperback edition, and make me more money per piece and per month than
          the paperback.

          You can also create *real* scarcity and combine it with *real* value
          -- I sell hand-made, autographed chapbook editions of my short stories
          in limited runs of 100 copies each. They're not made until someone
          orders one. Each chapbook includes an essay you won't find in the
          e-book versions. These chapbooks sell for $10.00 each, postage paid
          if shipped in the US... and they outsell the e-book versions of the
          short stories.

          The chapbooks put it all together: niche market, real value and real
          scarcity. But there's one element I haven't mentioned yet:

          Community.

          All podcasts have the potential to build a community around them --
          these are your friends and your customers. Connect with people on a
          one-to-one basis and they'll be far more willing to support your
          creative endeavors with their time, their enthusiasm.. and when you
          ask, their wallets.

          Best,

          --
          Matthew Wayne Selznick
          Author, Podcaster, Social Media Consultation
          ************************************
          Get "Cloak" and other short stories
          Limited edition chapbook; ebook formats
          http://www.mattselznick.com

          "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
          Paperback; ebook formats, mp3 CD, free podcast
          http://www.bravemenrun.com
        • Ed Morgan
          I think some of you are missing the point that I think Nycedeli was trying to make. Maybe this isn t an issue in some areas, but there are those, such as ours,
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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            I think some of you are missing the point that I think Nycedeli was trying to make. Maybe this isn't an issue in some areas, but there are those, such as ours, that have people on the sidelines of the group. These people tend to pick at every little thing, and do not like it when you try to sell or make a little money on your site. These groups are at times larger than others, it depends of the group and content being sold most of the time. I have had good products, excellent niche market, and even a savings to the customer. Yet I have seen people take issue with every attempt to just make the cost of bringing the product to the people. With us it has even gone a step farther, which actually an ongoing legal matter I can't discuss here, but trust me when I say, there are some people that have a major problem when you try to monetize your hard work. If you don't have this problem, consider yourself very, very fortunate. It is an extremely annoying fact of life for some of us, and one I understand far too well.

            Ed


            From: Matthew Wayne Selznick
            Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 12:43 PM
            To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [podcasters] Re: "Unfortunately" I sell stuff on my site


            Nycedeli said:
            >> web, it has to be free. Unfortunately it seems that the way to make money
            >> on the web is to be a hypemaster, setting up artificial scarcity and
            >> deadlines in which to make the purchase. It seems like that's the only thing that
            >> works on the web.

            Not true. Create excellent, valuable content that appeals to a niche
            market, and you will make money.

            The artificial deadline / artificial scarcity model is most commonly
            used by network marketers of the sort commonly found on ClickBank.
            You can recognize them by their brochure-style one-page "sales letter"
            websites. They're the Internet version of Billy Mays on US
            television: loud, obnoxious, overblown infomercials. They are *not*
            the only way to go.

            Braindouche! wrote:
            > to appeal to people's sense of lazy and provide something that could
            > be pirated for free for a low price in a convenient manner. Granted,
            > you need a large audience to make this method profitable, but tell me
            > any method on the net that doesn't need a large audience to be
            > profitable that doesn't involve ebay and a yardsale miracle.


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          • mbritt1216
            Thank you for these recent comments on the unfortunate situation. If I can find the URL of Mr. Unfortunate s site, I definitely will leave a comment and
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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              Thank you for these recent comments on the "unfortunate" situation. If I can find the URL of "Mr. Unfortunate"'s site, I definitely will leave a comment and try to, in a nice way, educate him and anyone who reads the comment about why I'm selling a few things and why I think they are worth money.

              I think it's very true that people expect too much to be free on the web. This mentality affected me as well when I first put my for-sale document up on my site. I was worried that people wouldn't pay for it, so I priced it pretty low - only $4.99. I've gotten excellent feedback so I've decided to raise the price a little. Like Ed and the previous commenter, nycedeli, I put many, many hours into my product. We have to be careful not to undervalue ourselves just because others undervalue us.

              Michael
              www.thepsychfiles.com


              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Morgan" <parrotflock@...> wrote:
              >
              > I am in the process of starting a new podcast myself, and am planning to add a shop that will support my efforts. I know that there will always be those few that feel it is somehow wrong to sell anything on the web. I plan to find a way to monetize the podcast from the start, and hopefully get some support. I have put a lot of time into this, and this is all I do. I have run a help group for parrot owners for over eight years, and have gathered a lot of information in that time, and that is what the podcast is about. But every time I did anything on the group that required users to pay anything within the group, there were always complaints. Even when it was obvious there were costs on my end that I needed to cover. I don't know why some people assume that everything on the web must be free or it is a scam. Nothing in life is that way. People pay for satellite radio, cable TV and every other form of communicate out there. Yet when they get on the Internet, and they see you are trying to charge a small fee to compensate yourself a small amount for the hours of hard work you put into something, they immediately jump on you and call you a scam artist. Since when has it become wrong to want to earn a few extra bucks? No one is forcing them to buy something, and there is even a free version available to them. I just don't understand that thought process at all. I feel lucky to get anything for free, and feel people have the right to ask for compensation anytime they put something out of value. It doesn't matter what went into the production, if it is worth the money, there is nothing wrong with asking for a reasonable price for it.
              >
              > Regards,
              > Ed
              > Parrot Hut (coming soon)
              > http://www.parrothut.com
              >
              >
              >
              > From: nycedeli
              > Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 5:08 AM
              > To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [podcasters] Re: "Unfortunately" I sell stuff on my site
              >
              >
              > I'm arriving late to this discussion but I wanted to add my thoughts, especially since I can relate to Michael's frustration.
              >
              > The fact that podcasting has a low barrier to entry and anyone with a mic and a computer can make one, there exists a false impression that producing a podcast is quick and easy work. A lot of people don't realize that for most podcasts, only a small fraction of listeners will donate money or make a purchase.
              >
              > A few months ago I did a joint podcast with another podcaster in my niche, which is related to learning a foreign language. We spent several weeks working on the content of the podcast and split the final recording into two excellent episodes. The first week that Part 1 was online, I made a complete word-for-word transcript available for free on my web site. When I released Part 2 a week later, I then charged a fee for people to access the entire transcript for parts 1 and 2. The audio was still free but if anyone wanted to read a word-for-word transcript, I was asking them to pay $2.50. Would you believe that there were people who left comments on my blog asking why I was charging for the transcript? I couldn't believe it. I wrote back explaining that the two-part episode had required a lot of planning and organization and that I wasn't charging for the audio but for the transcript, which required additional time and effort to transcribe, etc. I then said that if someone thought that $2.50 was too much money to get a document that would deepen their understanding of the audio content, well, they didn't have to pay it.
              >
              > I think Michael should say something to that other blogger. Use the contact as an opportunity to educate the other blogger that there is more than one way to monetize a site. Not everyone wants to monetize their site with Adsense.
              >
              > I think too many people have been conditioned to believe that if it's on the web, it has to be free. Unfortunately it seems that the way to make money on the web is to be a hypemaster, setting up artificial scarcity and deadlines in which to make the purchase. It seems like that's the only thing that works on the web. But if you have a stable site offering a quality product month after month, you're not going to make any sales if you don't have the "Buy in the next 24 hours because we can't keep this offer up forever!!!" type of hype.
              >
              > o people who don't make podcasts think--- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "mbritt1216" <michael.britt@> wrote:
              > >
              > > The other day I was checking a blog that just put posted a link to my
              > > site. The blog post was positive except for one part which, as they
              > > say, has really stuck in my "craw". After saying positive things
              > > about my site, the author mentions that "unfortunately" I sell things
              > > on my site. I sell two things on my site: a PDF (for $4.99) and a CD
              > > of past episodes. All the rest - 86 episodes which constitutes over
              > > 50 hours of free podcasts, plus show notes and links - like all the
              > > rest of us here on the podcast group. All of this is free. The stuff
              > > I sell helps pay (a little bit) for hosting and other costs.
              > >
              > > It just really annoys me that the author should have to say
              > > "unfortunately" even though so much stuff on my site is free. And one
              > > final thing: his blog contained Google ads.
              > >
              > > Why does this attitude still persist?
              > >
              > > Michael
              > > www.thepsychfiles.com
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • nycedeli
              @ Matthew, Excellent comments! Thanks for posting. Great roadmap on how to proceed. I will be emailing you privately about the book project you did since I ve
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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                @ Matthew,
                Excellent comments! Thanks for posting. Great roadmap on how to proceed. I will be emailing you privately about the book project you did since I've been thinking about doing something similar but I'm unsure of the logistics. (Do I request full deposit before producing the books or be partial payment with the order and final payment with the shipment of the book, etc.) But I'll email you privately my my specific question.


                @Ed:
                It sounds like you're surrounded by or coming into contact with too many toxic people. Start distancing yourself from those hardcore pessimists and see if there is a way for you to build a new community, like Matthew suggested, or join another preexisting community/forum with folks who share your passion and are receptive to your outlook. It sucks when the people who you were counting on or were expecting to support your work don't support what you're trying to do, but I'm afraid it's just one of the bumps in the road that inevitably pop up when someone is passionate about what he or she is creating.

                Also, I've found that with some people, they're not open to new ideas or getting their info from new experts. They're comfortable with the same ol' faces and getting their info from the same ol' sources. They're followers, not explorers/experimenters, so no use trying to win people like that over because they're not open to being won over. Don't let the negative types bog you down because ultimately that's what they want...to keep you stuck in a rut.
              • nycedeli
                Another excellent comment. Thanks to all for participating on this thread. Great discussion/brainstorming happening here!
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 7, 2009
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                  Another excellent comment. Thanks to all for participating on this thread. Great discussion/brainstorming happening here!

                  --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Braindouche!" <braindouche@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm not sure that's true. Another model that seems to work, at least
                  > for iTunes, iPhone apps, and recently Wil Wheaton and android apps, is
                  > to appeal to people's sense of lazy and provide something that could
                  > be pirated for free for a low price in a convenient manner. Granted,
                  > you need a large audience to make this method profitable, but tell me
                  > any method on the net that doesn't need a large audience to be
                  > profitable that doesn't involve ebay and a yardsale miracle.
                  >
                  > This seems to apply to digital products in the under-5-dollar range.
                  > Make it good and make it easy to get and make it cheap enough that
                  > folks will choose to throw the pocket change at you to save some time.
                  >
                  > ~Mer
                  > braindouche.net
                  >
                  >
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