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Re: [podcasters] PBS, NPR, and iPod/YouTube

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  • Dan Hughes
    Mike, I m not sure what troll bait is, but if it means trying to start an argument just for the excitement of it, that ain t me. I m a serious podcaster, I
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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      Mike, I'm not sure what troll bait is, but if it means trying to start an
      argument just for the excitement of it, that ain't me. I'm a serious
      podcaster, I know my stuff, and I'm sure I would have many more listeners
      if I weren't so cheap that I combine two totally unrelated podcasts into
      one feed. (I have different access URLs - thesoftballcorner.com gets you
      just the softball shows, and thetreasurecorner.com gets you just the
      treasure shows - but they are both housed in the same account in libsyn,
      and if you go to the libsyn account directly (as I guess iPod does) you
      get all of them together.

      Sorry, I'm getting off point here.

      Which is:

      For the great majority of the audience, video is easier. By that I mean
      you need no extra equipment, you just sit at your computer and watch your
      monitor.

      But for audio only, most people would rather listen away from their
      computer, and that means, if they want your podcast, attaching
      peripherals to their computer via cable or USB port, and taking the time
      to download. That's just too much trouble for those who are just as
      happy listening to music or the radio, or whatever is already on their
      MP3 player.

      Audio is indeed portable, but there are many types of audio, and for the
      public at large, podcasting takes a back seat to most of them, I'm
      afraid.

      Thanks,

      ---Dan




      On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:18:28 -0600 "Mike Wills" <mike@...>
      writes:
      This sounds like Troll bait, but I'll bite anyway...

      The problem with video. You have to watch it and usually give it at least
      partial attention. Shorter is better. YouTube has a 10 minute limit (the
      last I knew). With audio a person can listen in the car, listen while
      working out, or just have it in the background. Any length is usually
      okay.
      While I agree, posting something on YouTube is more likely to be seen,
      audio
      is more portable.

      You talk numbers, for niche areas like yours I would be happy to have 300
      people listening. That is 300 more people than would otherwise hear you
      if
      you just talked to yourself. If you want more listeners, you have to
      market
      your shows.

      Remember, right now there are no rules. You try what you want to gain
      more
      audience. No one can tell you what step 2 is. All you can do is try
      different things.

      --
      Mike Wills
      Podcast Mike Productions http://podcastmike.com
      Skype: koldark | Ph: 612-605-9821
      http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikewills

      P.S. If you don't know what step 2 refers to. Look up Underwear Gnomes...

      -----Original Message-----
      From: podcasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:podcasters@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Dan Hughes
      Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:01 AM
      To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [podcasters] PBS, NPR, and iPod/YouTube

      Joshua asks, "If video is inherently BETTER than audio, then why doesn't
      PBS make NPR obsolete? I know NPR is suffering financially, but it's
      doing
      way better than PBS."
      ------------------------------------
      PBS is competing with hundreds of on-air, satellite, and cable channels
      that
      appeal to the unwashed masses (that is, the great majority of us).

      NPR has little competition on the radio dial, what with the great
      majority
      of radio stations alternating 12 songs in a row with 12 commercials in a
      row.

      Both PBS and NPR appeal to an elite audience (and I don't mean that in a
      bad
      way), and I think you'll find a much higher percentage of this crowd
      listening to radio than watching television, as compared to the
      lesser-educated population.

      -------------------------

      And that's a problem with podcasting, too. It's hard to get people to
      just
      listen when they have so many other choices that give them pictures, too.


      I've run two podcasts since last summer (on metal detecting and adult
      softball), and I get about 300 listeners each week. In a moment of
      insanity
      I posted one stupid adlibbed "commercial" for one of my books on YouTube,
      and that darn thing has been watched over 400 times!

      I think our listenership would skyrocket if we posted our podcasts on
      YouTube instead of iTunes. All we need to do is add a picture for the
      screen.

      ---Dan

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      ------------------------------------

      YahooGroups Podcasters Links

      ------------------------------------
      Yahoo! Groups Links



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Mike Wills
      So, that laptop, smart phone, cell phone, mp3 player, watch, USB key, MP3 CD player, GPS, digital picture frame, digital camera, and much much more don t
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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        So, that laptop, smart phone, cell phone, mp3 player, watch, USB key, MP3 CD
        player, GPS, digital picture frame, digital camera, and much much more don't
        count? These devices are becoming more mainstream every day. Just 3 years
        ago, only the elete business people had smartphones. Now they are rapidly
        gaining ground on "normal" cell phones, at least based on what I see from
        people carrying them.

        While it's true the "mainstream" don't get what a podcast is. The real
        problem is that there isn't a mainstream way to get podcasts. How does one
        get it now? Zune Marketplace and iTunes make it automatic. Everything else
        that I have heard of is basically a hack or not maintained well. I have yet
        to see a "good" podcatcher that will download the show, and automatically
        place it on a playing device as easily as it is for iTunes/iPod.

        If you want to know how long it'll take for podcasting to be considered
        mainstream, look at how long it took blogging to become mainstream. We can
        only push so much.

        I agree, video seems to be better for Marketing based on the research I have
        seen. It grabs your attention. Bute you know what? Of the 12 video podcasts
        I subscribe to, only three do I actually watch. The rest I play and listen
        to the audio on my iPod... At work.

        Don't do video to do video because you may think it's the next best thing.
        Do what makes sense for your content. The viewers/listeners will come. If
        you think your audience is better served with video, do it! But just ask
        anyone doing video work on a daily or weekly basis. It is a LOT harder than
        audio to have quality content.

        --
        Mike Wills
        Podcast Mike Productions http://podcastmike.com
        Skype: koldark | Ph: 612-605-9821
        http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikewills

        -----Original Message-----
        From: podcasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:podcasters@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Dan Hughes
        Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 10:51 PM
        To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [podcasters] PBS, NPR, and iPod/YouTube

        Mike, I'm not sure what troll bait is, but if it means trying to start an
        argument just for the excitement of it, that ain't me. I'm a serious
        podcaster, I know my stuff, and I'm sure I would have many more listeners if
        I weren't so cheap that I combine two totally unrelated podcasts into one
        feed. (I have different access URLs - thesoftballcorner.com gets you just
        the softball shows, and thetreasurecorner.com gets you just the treasure
        shows - but they are both housed in the same account in libsyn, and if you
        go to the libsyn account directly (as I guess iPod does) you get all of them
        together.

        Sorry, I'm getting off point here.

        Which is:

        For the great majority of the audience, video is easier. By that I mean you
        need no extra equipment, you just sit at your computer and watch your
        monitor.

        But for audio only, most people would rather listen away from their
        computer, and that means, if they want your podcast, attaching peripherals
        to their computer via cable or USB port, and taking the time to download.
        That's just too much trouble for those who are just as happy listening to
        music or the radio, or whatever is already on their
        MP3 player.

        Audio is indeed portable, but there are many types of audio, and for the
        public at large, podcasting takes a back seat to most of them, I'm afraid.

        Thanks,

        ---Dan




        On Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:18:28 -0600 "Mike Wills" <mike@...>
        writes:
        This sounds like Troll bait, but I'll bite anyway...

        The problem with video. You have to watch it and usually give it at least
        partial attention. Shorter is better. YouTube has a 10 minute limit (the
        last I knew). With audio a person can listen in the car, listen while
        working out, or just have it in the background. Any length is usually okay.
        While I agree, posting something on YouTube is more likely to be seen, audio
        is more portable.

        You talk numbers, for niche areas like yours I would be happy to have 300
        people listening. That is 300 more people than would otherwise hear you if
        you just talked to yourself. If you want more listeners, you have to market
        your shows.

        Remember, right now there are no rules. You try what you want to gain more
        audience. No one can tell you what step 2 is. All you can do is try
        different things.

        --
        Mike Wills
        Podcast Mike Productions http://podcastmike.com
        Skype: koldark | Ph: 612-605-9821
        http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikewills

        P.S. If you don't know what step 2 refers to. Look up Underwear Gnomes...

        -----Original Message-----
        From: podcasters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:podcasters@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Dan Hughes
        Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:01 AM
        To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [podcasters] PBS, NPR, and iPod/YouTube

        Joshua asks, "If video is inherently BETTER than audio, then why doesn't PBS
        make NPR obsolete? I know NPR is suffering financially, but it's doing way
        better than PBS."
        ------------------------------------
        PBS is competing with hundreds of on-air, satellite, and cable channels that
        appeal to the unwashed masses (that is, the great majority of us).

        NPR has little competition on the radio dial, what with the great majority
        of radio stations alternating 12 songs in a row with 12 commercials in a
        row.

        Both PBS and NPR appeal to an elite audience (and I don't mean that in a bad
        way), and I think you'll find a much higher percentage of this crowd
        listening to radio than watching television, as compared to the
        lesser-educated population.

        -------------------------

        And that's a problem with podcasting, too. It's hard to get people to just
        listen when they have so many other choices that give them pictures, too.


        I've run two podcasts since last summer (on metal detecting and adult
        softball), and I get about 300 listeners each week. In a moment of insanity
        I posted one stupid adlibbed "commercial" for one of my books on YouTube,
        and that darn thing has been watched over 400 times!

        I think our listenership would skyrocket if we posted our podcasts on
        YouTube instead of iTunes. All we need to do is add a picture for the
        screen.

        ---Dan

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ------------------------------------

        YahooGroups Podcasters Links

        ------------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        ------------------------------------

        YahooGroups Podcasters Links

        ------------------------------------
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • essential_pepsi
        I think the ultimate goal is to get your content out there no matter what. It s not necessarily about which tool is better than the others, but about using all
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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          I think the ultimate goal is to get your content out there no matter what.

          It's not necessarily about which tool is better than the others, but
          about using all the tools that might be useful and deciding which
          content (and in what format) to put out there...

          If you can integrate video to draw attention to your podcast (for
          example, I have a podcast on business ethics for new professionals...
          and I could do a youtube video on how to tie a tie or on how to
          determine if someone is lying to you...)

          http://12seconds.tv/ is a great tool for this purpose. Like twitter
          with video, you only get 12 seconds to get your point out - perfect
          for a crazy commercial for your podcast.

          -Nick
          PsychoticResumes.com
        • joshuamcnichols
          snip ... Maybe it d be smart to think of YouTube as just another portal/advertisement for podcasts, not unlike a facebook page. Joshua
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 4, 2009
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            snip

            > I think our listenership would skyrocket if we posted our podcasts on
            > YouTube instead of iTunes. All we need to do is add a picture for the
            > screen.
            >
            > ---Dan

            Maybe it'd be smart to think of YouTube as just another
            portal/advertisement for podcasts, not unlike a facebook page.

            Joshua
          • writerpatrick
            ... doesn t ... channels ... us). ... to ... pictures, ... on ... the ... Not necissarily. I ve posted a few videos on YouTube and gotten practically nothing
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 5, 2009
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              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:
              >
              > Joshua asks, "If video is inherently BETTER than audio, then why
              doesn't
              > PBS make NPR obsolete? I know NPR is suffering financially, but it's
              > doing way better than PBS."
              > ------------------------------------
              > PBS is competing with hundreds of on-air, satellite, and cable
              channels
              > that appeal to the unwashed masses (that is, the great majority of
              us).
              > And that's a problem with podcasting, too. It's hard to get people
              to
              > just listen when they have so many other choices that give them
              pictures,
              > too.
              >
              > I think our listenership would skyrocket if we posted our podcasts
              on
              > YouTube instead of iTunes. All we need to do is add a picture for
              the
              > screen.

              Not necissarily. I've posted a few videos on YouTube and gotten
              practically nothing (less than 20 views). There's a few "slide-show"
              videos on YouTube which are essentially audio with some pictures
              added. Although in those cases they're put to music so it's the music
              people are after.

              I did something like that with the first segment of Beowulf:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYHR6gqp2IU

              Over a year it's gotten about 230 views on YouTube. Although the Veoh
              posting has gotten over 630. I'll have to try again.
            • shepdave2003
              ... mean ... watch your ... time ... their ... I completely disagree with this analysis. As a listener, I do not subscribe to a single video podcast. I don t
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 5, 2009
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                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:

                > For the great majority of the audience, video is easier. By that I
                mean
                > you need no extra equipment, you just sit at your computer and
                watch
                your
                > monitor.
                >
                > But for audio only, most people would rather listen away from their
                > computer, and that means, if they want your podcast, attaching
                > peripherals to their computer via cable or USB port, and taking the
                time
                > to download. That's just too much trouble for those who are just as
                > happy listening to music or the radio, or whatever is already on
                their
                > MP3 player.

                I completely disagree with this analysis. As a listener, I do not
                subscribe to a single video podcast. I don't have time in my life to
                sit down at a computer and stare at the screen to get the kind of
                content I get from podcasts. For me, that is much more inconvenient
                than audio.

                I sync up my MP3 player (which happens to be an iPod) as part of my
                morning routine, and then I listen to the day's podcasts on the run--
                while driving to and from work, running errands, waiting in lines,
                etc. If I had to watch a video, I just wouldn't mess with it.

                Now, I don't want to mistakenly assume that my pattern of interaction
                with my podcast list is the same as yours--but likewise, you should
                not assume everybody's pattern of interaction is the same as yours.
                You're suggesting it's a pain in the neck to hook my iPod to my
                comptuter to sync. I'm suggesting that (for me) it's a much bigger
                pain in the neck to sit my butt down in front of a computer screen
                for the time of a podcast. I'm stuck there. Can't do anything else. I
                have to sit in one place. Forget it. I'm too busy to do that.

                As a producer, audio is much, MUCH easier to deal with. I only have
                to work in a dry, quiet room. If I were doing video, I'd have to get
                the sound of the room right AND get the lighting right, AND worry
                about whether I needed another person to run camera, etc., etc., etc.

                Different strokes for different folks, that's what I'm saying. But
                when you say that "video is easier for the great majority of the
                audience," I really think you are making a huge generalization that
                may well not have the tiniest basis in fact.

                Back to lurk mode.

                Dave Shepherd
                http://thewordnerds.org
              • Dan Hughes
                Dave says, But when you say that video is easier for the great majority of the audience, I really think you are making a huge generalization that may well
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 5, 2009
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                  Dave says, "But when you say that "video is easier for the great
                  majority of the audience," I really think you are making a huge
                  generalization that may well not have the tiniest basis in fact."

                  ---------------------------------

                  Hi Dave,

                  Thanks for outlining your podcast download process. I'm sure there are
                  many others who do the same or similar.

                  Still, I think we are in the minority when compared to the number of
                  people who watch YouTube. I recently retired as a college instructor
                  teaching radio broadcasting, and even my radio students were heavily into
                  YouTube, few if any into podcasts.

                  Subject matter may have a lot to do with it - there are more familiar
                  (but bootleg) videos on YouTube than bootleg songs in podcasts.

                  Ask ten computer users at random if they watch YouTube, then ask them if
                  they listen to podcasts - what numbers would you expect?

                  ---Dan

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rob Schendel
                  My iTunes acquires 35 or more podcast episodes a week for me to review.All of the audio casts are consumed regularly. All of the video casts receive a notice
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 5, 2009
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                    My iTunes acquires 35 or more podcast episodes a week for me to review.All
                    of the audio casts are consumed regularly.
                    All of the video casts receive a notice saying iTunes has stopped
                    downloading episodes because user hasn't reviewed the episodes of late.
                    Why would that be? It's easy to figure that I listen to podcasts when I'm
                    out on my bike, on the bus, on the train or walking.
                    The video casts only get seen if I drop everything else I'm doing to sit in
                    front of the computer and stare.
                    I simply do not have enough time to catch up on all the episodes, even
                    though I will attempt to run them as I fall asleep at night.
                    I know I'm only one man, but it would seem to me that this would be typical
                    of most podcast consumers.
                    Thanks for the discussion!

                    Rob Schendel
                    www.twitter.com/robschendel

                    On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 5:57 PM, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:

                    > Dave says, "But when you say that "video is easier for the great
                    >
                    > majority of the audience," I really think you are making a huge
                    > generalization that may well not have the tiniest basis in fact."
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    >
                    > Hi Dave,
                    >
                    > Thanks for outlining your podcast download process. I'm sure there are
                    > many others who do the same or similar.
                    >
                    > Still, I think we are in the minority when compared to the number of
                    > people who watch YouTube. I recently retired as a college instructor
                    > teaching radio broadcasting, and even my radio students were heavily into
                    > YouTube, few if any into podcasts.
                    >
                    > Subject matter may have a lot to do with it - there are more familiar
                    > (but bootleg) videos on YouTube than bootleg songs in podcasts.
                    >
                    > Ask ten computer users at random if they watch YouTube, then ask them if
                    > they listen to podcasts - what numbers would you expect?
                    >
                    > ---Dan
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Mike Wills
                    Ask those same people what they watch on YouTube. I bet the majority of them don t watch shows that are released on a regular basis. They are looking for those
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 5, 2009
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                      Ask those same people what they watch on YouTube. I bet the majority
                      of them don't watch shows that are released on a regular basis. They
                      are looking for those short viral clips.

                      --
                      Mike Wills
                      http://mikewills.info

                      Sent from my iPod Touch

                      On Feb 5, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:

                      > Dave says, "But when you say that "video is easier for the great
                      > majority of the audience," I really think you are making a huge
                      > generalization that may well not have the tiniest basis in fact."
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      >
                      > Hi Dave,
                      >
                      > Thanks for outlining your podcast download process. I'm sure there
                      > are
                      > many others who do the same or similar.
                      >
                      > Still, I think we are in the minority when compared to the number of
                      > people who watch YouTube. I recently retired as a college instructor
                      > teaching radio broadcasting, and even my radio students were heavily
                      > into
                      > YouTube, few if any into podcasts.
                      >
                      > Subject matter may have a lot to do with it - there are more familiar
                      > (but bootleg) videos on YouTube than bootleg songs in podcasts.
                      >
                      > Ask ten computer users at random if they watch YouTube, then ask
                      > them if
                      > they listen to podcasts - what numbers would you expect?
                      >
                      > ---Dan
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
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