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Re: Podcasting is "dead"?

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  • tom_a_sparks
    I don t see podcasting as being dead, but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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      I don't see podcasting as being dead,

      but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing
      videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using youtube, Not a
      downloadalbe format like mp4/wmv etc

      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <sisco83@...> wrote:
    • RatbagMedia
      ... Well the main complication is that podcasting re-invents radio and suffers from the many handicaps that radio has had to deal with for so many decades.
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:
        >
        > I think there is a general feeling that podcasting is dead because it
        > never became as popular as it should have.
        >


        Well the main complication is that podcasting re-invents radio and
        suffers from the many handicaps that radio has had to deal with for so
        many decades.

        Podcasting's problem was in effect the low ebb in radio as a means to
        communicate stuff to listeners. I think it would be very difficult for
        people to come in cold to podcasting and start listening if they
        didn't first harbour a penchant to listening to stuff -- on radio
        especially.

        So thats' its burden -- ears only, when the media preferences are now
        very different. That doesn't mean that podcasting is old hat, only
        that the vogue is focused elsewhere.

        I've taken up videoblogging and I prefer it to (audio)podcasting for a
        number of reasons.

        (1)Video is treated much better on the web. The housing and
        presentation platforms(eg: automatic conversion to flash single
        episode and channel players) leave podcasting in the shade.I can also
        easily upload and share my files on many free sites -- such as BlipTV
        -- which offer me no end of service and options. Nothing is like
        that in podcasting. On Blip too I can also cross post to range of my
        preferred other sites and also get my videos archived.

        (2) While I also use YouTube (and can cross post to it via TubeMoghul)
        the amount of traffic you'll get to your item on YouTUbe can leave the
        podcasting sites way behind.

        (3) Video is a major dialogue media on the web when audio is not.
        Despite a few initiatives such as on ODEO for a time -- it's video
        rather than audio which people prefer to engage a discussion with.

        (4) Some of my podcasting was taken up by community radio but my video
        output is in greater demand than I imagined possible.(it just goes to
        show you how much poor quality video there is on the web).

        (5) Video is so much easier to edit and format than audio. It's the
        graphic cues you get. I can edit up video footage in a twice compared
        to some of the ongoing hassles with drawing together pieces of audio
        -- if shot/recorded while out and about..But all my paodcating
        experience enriches my audio edit for video.

        (6)However, I don't think video makes a very useful podcasting option
        -- ie: ran on a feed -- because of file size and customized
        preferences. Thats' where audio rocks -- and the fact that you can
        port it away from your computer so easily. The problem is that that is
        the web's best kept secret -- and while I may listen to hours of
        podcasts each week no one else I know does.They cannot see past video
        if they see at all.

        So I'm shifting my focus a lot. And while I try to offer a mix of
        media on site -- I am getting much more interest from video production
        than audio.I also prefer to work in video because it is more
        descriptive and you don;t have to lay down so much explanation.I can
        also do video to DVD and present my work in real time gatherings. in a
        way that audio doesn't suit.

        I have a portfolio in the way audio doens't allow.

        Essentially the cultural preference has shifted from auditory inputs
        to visual ones and it is hard to buck the trend with the density of audio.

        The other complication was that podcasting aped radio as it tried to
        reproduce a web version of the AM/FM band. Aping radio when radio
        could still be had only meant that radio too became podcastable -- as
        is what has happened.

        So where do these media newbie others fit in? Where;'s the niche that
        was sustainable? In fact podcasting fed that by trying to be very
        regular and very episodic -- the terror of the RSS feed -- instead of
        maybe slowing down and doing less often but quality products that
        could live on the wed as a ongoing archive.

        Podcasting's complication was one of poor quality...that dragged the
        medium down in popularity. There's heaps of crap video too on the web,
        but it is much easier to sift through that.

        That's what video teaches you -- the quest for quality and substance
        --when video on the web is so often neither, and audio podcasting on
        the web is still an unknown in that regard.

        So the format can be a tyranny. This desire to replicate the "program
        ' entity in time, place and subject.

        It's the radio trap.

        I think the way to proceed is to mix media and draw in the best
        options from video, audio and text. And always always look to your
        content. I think content rules and, as Marshal McLuhan argued, can
        always determine your medium -- and vice versa.

        dave riley
      • Matthew Wayne Selznick
        ... The point of any media is to get it into the eyes / ears of the audience. If YouTube is the best way to do that (user familiarity, access on an increasing
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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          On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
          > but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing
          > videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using youtube, Not a
          > downloadalbe format like mp4/wmv etc

          The point of any media is to get it into the eyes / ears of the
          audience. If YouTube is the best way to do that (user familiarity,
          access on an increasing number of Internet-enabled devices) then so be
          it. Why download something when you can stream it on your
          Internet-enabled portable device?

          Video podcasters aren't fucking up when they use YouTube. They're
          putting their content in the largest distribution stream available.

          Now, I think it's smart to be on YouTube *and* offer a downloadable
          option, as with my Teen Poetry podcast... but to say podcasters are
          "doing it wrong" by using YouTube is as misguided as any right-wrong
          "rules" when it comes to this medium.

          --
          Matthew Wayne Selznick
          Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
          ************************************
          "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
          Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
          http://www.mattselznick.com

          "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
          Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
          http://www.bravemenrun.com
        • the Encaffeinated ONE
          ... Interesting... It s a shame that audio-podcasting didn t come a few years earlier, then, before radio became (generally) such a wasteland.. ... This echoes
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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            On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:40 PM, RatbagMedia <ratbagradio@...> wrote:

            > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I think there is a general feeling that podcasting is dead because it
            > > never became as popular as it should have.
            > >
            >
            >
            > Well the main complication is that podcasting re-invents radio and
            > suffers from the many handicaps that radio has had to deal with for so
            > many decades.
            >

            Interesting... It's a shame that audio-podcasting didn't come a few years
            earlier, then, before radio became (generally) such a wasteland..


            > (1)Video is treated much better on the web. The housing and


            This echoes a question I made months ago: what's the Youtube for
            audio-podcasting? Can it be? The general opinion seemed to be that there
            wouldn't be one, because audio is such a different medium, and the
            portability of audio trumped the social nature of a share listening space.
            Also, audio not being an inherently visual medium but the web definitely
            being one seems at odds.

            (2) While I also use YouTube (and can cross post to it via TubeMoghul)
            > the amount of traffic you'll get to your item on YouTUbe can leave the
            > podcasting sites way behind.


            I think one of the reasons for this is actually the structure of Youtube:
            you go to a central place to experience many different productions, carry a
            profile for your entire experience across all productions, and can
            share/communicate/rate all the things in one place.

            There are directories for audio podcasting, but they have not taken on to
            the same level.

            There might also be a problem with audio presentation lacking any chapter
            cues. I can skim through a video and have some idea where I'm skipping to by
            the frame of video that comes up. In audio, I will likely have to wait
            longer for a cue as to where it is. While there are chapters in the AAC
            format (I think that's the one), the process for making them always seems to
            be extraordinarily arcane and/or limited by platform or software
            availability.


            > (3) Video is a major dialogue media on the web when audio is not.
            > Despite a few initiatives such as on ODEO for a time -- it's video
            > rather than audio which people prefer to engage a discussion with.


            This I find strange, because the engagement is mostly textual, and that's
            just as easy for audio as it is for video. And audio is so much easier to
            feed back with, as long as you put mechanisms in place like a voicemail line
            or live call-in feature.


            > (4) Some of my podcasting was taken up by community radio but my video
            > output is in greater demand than I imagined possible.(it just goes to
            > show you how much poor quality video there is on the web).


            The sorry state of radio stations has lowered the expectations of people for
            what radio can be like, I suppose. I wonder if the omnipresent position of
            the CBC here in Canada is what gives me a very different perspective on the
            matter.. I should imagine that NPR listeners and BBC radio listeners might
            also be more willing to give audio podcasts a chance..


            > (5) Video is so much easier to edit and format than audio. It's the
            > graphic cues you get. I can edit up video footage in a twice compared


            That's the first time I have heard *anyone* suggest that! Most insist that
            video is dramatically harder than audio, because you have multiple streams
            of information which must be patched together as seamlessly as possible.

            Also, audio manipulation is far easier when one considers non-local
            contributors; I do Skype chats with people in 4 time zones: we could never
            do video.

            Finally, audio allows more easy manipulation for tricks such as multiple
            voices (or multiple characters with my own voice).

            (6)However, I don't think video makes a very useful podcasting option
            > -- ie: ran on a feed -- because of file size and customized
            > preferences. Thats' where audio rocks -- and the fact that you can
            > port it away from your computer so easily. The problem is that that is
            > the web's best kept secret -- and while I may listen to hours of
            > podcasts each week no one else I know does.They cannot see past video
            > if they see at all.


            I'm interested if people have suggestions about how we can reform the
            "image" of audio, how we can build a good community site like Youtube and
            also keep the portability.

            Devices like the iPod Touch and the iPhone give me hope that we can have a
            richer experience with audio and feedback. Imagine a podcast player
            application which has a "comment on this" button beside every "play" button.
            Press it, and voila! A feedback window (with both text window and audio
            recorder controls) pops up. You put in your comment, and the application
            delivers it to the feedback address given in the podcast episode itself.

            If someone could please plug that into iTunes and Juice, we'd capture a lot
            of the audience and start a revolution, I suspect... After all: that's
            exactly what RSS did, from what I understand, create a simple technology
            with an application, let it flow out..

            Oh, and create a nice, standard Wordpress plugin and centralized YouHere
            (HearHere? YouListen?) website where a podcast producer can put it all up in
            one place. Include community functions (commenting, rating, "you may also
            like X", recommendations, profiles, etc.).

            If I had time, I would have already built this. There are attempts at this,
            but they all seem very cumbersome, slow, misdirected energies for the most
            part.


            > So I'm shifting my focus a lot. And while I try to offer a mix of
            > media on site -- I am getting much more interest from video production
            > than audio.I also prefer to work in video because it is more
            > descriptive and you don;t have to lay down so much explanation.I can
            > also do video to DVD and present my work in real time gatherings. in a
            > way that audio doesn't suit.
            >
            > I have a portfolio in the way audio doens't allow.
            >
            > Essentially the cultural preference has shifted from auditory inputs
            > to visual ones and it is hard to buck the trend with the density of audio.


            The trend had switched from honest presentations to vacuous but slick ones,
            too, but that's changing..

            Until we all move to be chipped and deliver info to our brain, we will
            always hear, and we will always listen to one thing and do another. I don't
            believe audio is dead and gone, just abused and rusty..

            The other complication was that podcasting aped radio as it tried to
            > reproduce a web version of the AM/FM band. Aping radio when radio
            > could still be had only meant that radio too became podcastable -- as
            > is what has happened.


            I think this died away very quickly. Sure, there are still some things that
            are distinctly radio-like, but most things quickly have diverged away from
            that, and are diverging more and more. That's not say that they left them
            behind: radio has many years of hard-won lessons to teach, and ignoring the
            history and significance of that would probably be foolish..

            (I would be quick to point out that I don't think that the vast array of
            empty, robotized, copy-cat stations are worth emulating, but their
            predecessors are.)


            > So where do these media newbie others fit in? Where;'s the niche that
            > was sustainable? In fact podcasting fed that by trying to be very
            > regular and very episodic -- the terror of the RSS feed -- instead of
            > maybe slowing down and doing less often but quality products that
            > could live on the wed as a ongoing archive.


            I think one of the problems I've had is there is plenty of good stuff out
            there, and since I subscribe to it all (it feels like), I get behind on all
            the conversations. And anyone who wasn't there from the beginning is left
            out or has to run fast to catch up. It's a very good point that we might
            want to reconsider the linear, building-up nature of the medium of
            podcasting and consider more drop-in, drop-out or ambient conversation
            styles, or consider something to be taken at a time wholly different from
            when it was produced.

            That said, some audio is bound to be continual, some to be an ongoing
            barometer of current events or a measure of progress so far in some
            discussion.



            > Podcasting's complication was one of poor quality...that dragged the
            > medium down in popularity. There's heaps of crap video too on the web,
            > but it is much easier to sift through that.


            What makes it easier to sift through? Why can those tools not be applied to
            audio? I think the medium has grown in use to the point where there are
            almost always good quality programs in many niches, so much so that the
            lesser quality programs fade away. I don't think that it is easier to sift
            through the loads of crap video, I think that there are better tools to
            aggregate the sifting and make the better quality programs rise to the top.

            That's what video teaches you -- the quest for quality and substance
            > --when video on the web is so often neither, and audio podcasting on
            > the web is still an unknown in that regard.


            It is difficult to compare the medium of web video with the medium of
            podcasting (audio or video). They are *not* the same, I'd suggest, with web
            video largely consisting of a mountain of individual videos, largely
            disconnected from each other, and podcasts consisting of a series of related
            items. When you consume web video, you are looking for a one-off experience.
            When you consume a podcast, you are subscribing into a continuing, ongoing,
            periodic experience. It is a bigger committment to subscribe to a podcast,
            and that committment must be described and vetted with adequate description,
            features, commentary, social standing, etc..

            So the format can be a tyranny. This desire to replicate the "program
            > ' entity in time, place and subject.
            >
            > It's the radio trap.


            "The medium is the message," calls the ghost of McLuhan. But the medium is
            still malleable, and before Youtube the web video medium was pretty much
            crap.


            > I think the way to proceed is to mix media and draw in the best
            > options from video, audio and text. And always always look to your
            > content. I think content rules and, as Marshal McLuhan argued, can
            > always determine your medium -- and vice versa.


            Well, that interpretation is a little different from the ones I've heard;
            from what I understand, he was really suggesting that an awareness of the
            limitations and opportunities a medium can offer -- how it speaks to the
            consumer -- is vital to really understanding what you can say, and how it
            gets received. The content doesn't dictate the medium, but rather it is
            shaped by it. The podcast episode doesn't shape the podcasting medium, but
            is itself shaped by the periodic, linear, subscription, continuing, two-way,
            conversational, direct, interactive nature of the system.

            Podcasting is not radio; web video is not TV. They learn things from them,
            but go beyond them. There are limitations, but these are not hindrances,
            merely signals that we might change the medium if necessary, or embrace them
            and push them as benefits..

            This has been a very stimulating discussion! I hope that others will chime
            in with other suggestions of what we, the producers of podcasts (and also,
            in most cases, some of the consumers as well) can do to expand or understand
            our medium..

            encaf1/MK

            [image: Encaffeinated!] <http://encaffeinated.ca> *the Encaffeinated ONE
            * *"It Is by beans alone that I set my mind in motion."*
            Podcaster. Announcer. Audio Actor. Writer. Programmer. *Geek.*
            Host of The WEIRD Show <http://theweirdshow.com> and Wandering Out
            Loud<http://encaffeinated.ca>
            Crew of The 9th Heroescast <http://www.heroescast.com> and Buffy Between The
            Lines <http://buffybetweenthelines.com>


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • tom_a_sparks
            ... I dont want to be charged a dollar a second/Kilobyte to access the internet via my 3G internet-enabled device (I dont have one anyway) ... i understand
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Wayne Selznick
              <mwselznick@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
              > > but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing
              > > videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using youtube, Not a
              > > downloadalbe format like mp4/wmv etc
              >
              > The point of any media is to get it into the eyes / ears of the
              > audience. If YouTube is the best way to do that (user familiarity,
              > access on an increasing number of Internet-enabled devices) then so be
              > it. Why download something when you can stream it on your
              > Internet-enabled portable device?

              I dont want to be charged a dollar a second/Kilobyte to access the
              internet via my 3G internet-enabled device (I dont have one anyway)
              >
              > Video podcasters aren't fucking up when they use YouTube. They're
              > putting their content in the largest distribution stream available.

              i understand that view, but the limitions of youtube is what turn me
              off youtube see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_YouTube,
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube and also the youtube
              corporation is making money of your video submitions

              > Now, I think it's smart to be on YouTube *and* offer a downloadable
              > option, as with my Teen Poetry podcast... but to say podcasters are
              > "doing it wrong" by using YouTube is as misguided as any right-wrong
              > "rules" when it comes to this medium.


              Wasn't the idea of podcasting to officer a downloadble file to be
              placed on your non-internet-enabled media player?
            • Matthew Wayne Selznick
              ... Google makes money off of your content in exchange for infinite bandwidth, near-perfect uptime, and infinite storage. Plus, if I tell someone, My video s
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:56 PM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
                > i understand that view, but the limitions of youtube is what turn me
                > off youtube see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_YouTube,
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube and also the youtube
                > corporation is making money of your video submitions

                Google makes money off of your content in exchange for infinite
                bandwidth, near-perfect uptime, and infinite storage. Plus, if I tell
                someone, "My video's on YouTube," they know exactly what I mean.
                Can't count on that if I say, "Have you seen my podcast?"

                There are plenty of ways smart people make money off their videos.
                Also, I believe YouTube offers ad service through AdSense to folks who
                upload videos, so you could even earn money directly.

                > Wasn't the idea of podcasting to officer a downloadble file to be
                > placed on your non-internet-enabled media player?

                No. The idea of podcasting was to deliver files (audio, video, or
                anything else) via RSS. You still need the Internet to get the
                content at some point.

                Has anyone noticed that YouTube is starting to offer downloadable video..?

                --
                Matthew Wayne Selznick
                Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
                ************************************
                "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
                Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
                http://www.mattselznick.com

                "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
                Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
                http://www.bravemenrun.com
              • joshuamcnichols
                ... This may be true. But I contend that a smaller number of people prefer audio to video because it is a more intimate medium. I know video can portray
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 3, 2009
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                  >
                  > (3) Video is a major dialogue media on the web when audio is not.
                  > Despite a few initiatives such as on ODEO for a time -- it's video
                  > rather than audio which people prefer to engage a discussion with.
                  >

                  This may be true. But I contend that a smaller number of people
                  prefer audio to video because it is a more intimate medium. I know
                  video can portray intimate things. But audio has a special way of
                  getting directly into your head. I believe it's because audio can be
                  akin to the human voice, whereas video has all these layers between
                  you and the content - a screen, a smaller scale, and the distractions
                  in the room. Furthermore, I appreciate that audio podcasts allow me
                  to do other things while I'm listening. Garden, exercise, wash
                  dishes, rock my baby to sleep.

                  I work in radio rather than television because I felt the intimacy of
                  audio, and felt alienated by television. If video is inherently
                  BETTER than audio, then why doesn't PBS make NPR obsolete? I know NPR
                  is suffering financially, but it's doing way better than PBS.

                  Audio is definitely a niche in a world dominated by video. But it's a
                  time-tested niche with real strengths.

                  That said, having photos or other web features to draw people into the
                  audio-only content is critical in a world where web pages are the
                  portals to audio work. Then once people tune in, the audio can do its
                  work.

                  My favorite model for audio content is PRX - the public radio
                  exchange. It requires registration, but if they eliminated that and
                  enhanced the ability to embed, they'd have something very much like
                  you-tube.
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