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Re: [podcasters] Podcasting is "dead"?

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  • the Encaffeinated ONE
    Well, the reason that I was curious was the recent newbie post about how do I do this? , in which the poster said I keep reading that podcasting is dead.. .
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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      Well, the reason that I was curious was the recent newbie post about "how do
      I do this?", in which the poster said "I keep reading that podcasting is
      dead..".

      I doubt a newb would bring this up as linkbait or conversation fodder, and
      they aren't likely to be into deep conversations with long-term podcasters.
      If the original newb poster (lyndagroup?) wants to point at where they saw
      people saying podcasting is dead, that would help.

      I don't personally believe it is dead -- I'm just curious who is saying such
      a thing, and what they really mean. The initial dream that we would all quit
      our dayjobs and get paid to blather on about our favourite topics has
      probably dissolved, given that most of us will be lucky to ever see a dime.

      Podcasting as a medium I think is going quite strong, and is being
      recognized as both a logical convergence of several things (cheap recording,
      cheap hosting, ubiquitous internet, easy blogging, RSS, dissatisfaction with
      traditional media, social networking, recycling/green movement, lives
      segmented into fewer contiguous blocks requiring more portable media
      consumption, unwillingness to pay enormous overhead for atom transport, etc)
      as well as a unique medium on its own.

      But I was curious if there was a reason to this meme, or an aspect that
      disappointed the general public, or some perceived shift from "indie" to
      "corporate"..

      encaf1/MK

      On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Matthew Wayne Selznick <
      mwselznick@...> wrote:

      > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:38 AM, the Encaffeinated ONE <encaf1@...>
      > wrote:
      > > Ok, so I've now seen a few comments in a few places that "podcasting is
      > > dead". I'm really wondering where this meme is coming from, what people
      > > think triggered a shift from "podcasting will take over the world" to
      > > "podcasting is dead".
      >
      > The reason you occasionally see forum / mailing list / blog posts with
      > the keywords "podcasting" and "dead" is because it drives traffic /
      > discussion.
      >
      > In fact, the last big thread on this non-issue was sparked because
      > Mike Geoghegan wrote something to the effect of "podcasting is not
      > dead" and Chris Brogan wrote a follow-up post that attracted a lot of
      > comments. Last year Mashable wrote a piece deciding that podcasting
      > was dead.
      >
      > What these folks are usually talking about is the viability of making
      > a living -- usually specifically through advertising -- by podcasting.
      >
      > I've decided to ignore discussions about the death of podcasting
      > (other than clarifications like this one.) The "podcasting is dead"
      > meme is just link bait and little more.
      >
      > --
      > Matthew Wayne Selznick
      > Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
      > ************************************
      > "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
      > Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
      > http://www.mattselznick.com
      >
      > "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
      > Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
      > http://www.bravemenrun.com
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > YahooGroups Podcasters Links
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      "An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made, in a
      narrow field." - Niels Bohr
      the Encaffeinated ONE <http://encaffeinated.ca>
      Host of THE WEIRD SHOW <http://theweirdshow.com>
      Crew on The 9th HeroesCAST <http://www.heroescast.com>

      Spoken Word Coordinator, Host on CHSR FM 97.9 <http://chsrfm.ca>
      Production Manager, Giant Gnome Productions
      (Junior) Member, Darker Projects, <http://darkerprojects.com>Pendant Audio
      Productions <http://pendantaudio.com>, Broken Sea Audio<http://brokensea.com>
      *the Encaffeinated ONE*: Amateur Voice Actor, Podcaster, Amateur Writer
      Wannabe, SF/F Fan, UNIX wizard, Geek.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matthew Wayne Selznick
      ... Yeah, I don t think the poster was linkbaiting, but the fact that someone apparently brand new to the medium would already have that opinion speaks to how
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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        On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:43 AM, the Encaffeinated ONE <encaf1@...> wrote:
        > I doubt a newb would bring this up as linkbait or conversation fodder, and
        > they aren't likely to be into deep conversations with long-term podcasters.
        > If the original newb poster (lyndagroup?) wants to point at where they saw
        > people saying podcasting is dead, that would help.

        Yeah, I don't think the poster was linkbaiting, but the fact that
        someone apparently brand new to the medium would already have that
        opinion speaks to how effective the naysayers have been.

        > I don't personally believe it is dead -- I'm just curious who is saying such
        > a thing, and what they really mean.

        Google the names and sites I mentioned along with the words "podcast" and "dead"

        --
        Matthew Wayne Selznick
        Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
        ************************************
        "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
        Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
        http://www.mattselznick.com

        "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
        Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
        http://www.bravemenrun.com
      • lyndagroup
        Yikes. I didn t mean to upset anyone with my innocent comment. I m afraid I didn t make a list of the places I saw the dead statement. When some writer
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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          Yikes. I didn't mean to upset anyone with my innocent comment. I'm
          afraid I didn't make a list of the places I saw the "dead" statement.
          When some writer friends mentioned podcasting in a promo workshop a
          year or so ago, I started googling "podcasting," and just began reading
          about it. It sounded great. I really was bummed by the possibility that
          I'd missed the wave on a good thing. I'm thrilled to hear podcasting is
          alive and well. I'll pass the word along. (I write vampire books and am
          constantly being told by one publisher or another that "vampires are
          dead" -- so to speak -- so I'm used to ignoring small, biased
          opinions!) What a great discussion here, though!

          Lynda


          >
          > Well, the reason that I was curious was the recent newbie post
          about "how do
          > I do this?", in which the poster said "I keep reading that podcasting
          is
          > dead..".
          >
          > I doubt a newb would bring this up as linkbait or conversation
          fodder, and
          > they aren't likely to be into deep conversations with long-term
          podcasters.
          > If the original newb poster (lyndagroup?) wants to point at where
          they saw
          > people saying podcasting is dead, that would help.
        • Paul Puri
          Podcasting is not dead. Anyone who says so is, as said before, a link baiter or misinformed. What has really happened is a shift from the term podcasting into
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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            Podcasting is not dead. Anyone who says so is, as said before, a link baiter
            or misinformed. What has really happened is a shift from the term podcasting
            into what it really is. Media.

            Although podcasting was at first a novelty, it has become another form of
            distribution. It started a revolution that is now a big pond for all kinds
            of fish to swim in. Some call themselves content producers, but whatever you
            want to call it, it came from podcasting.

            And podcasting came from something else.

            I look at how the online media landscape has changed in just the past few
            years. For a long time there has been some form of online audio and video,
            but because of increasing proliferation of high speed bandwidth, and the
            increasing number of content producers, audio and video on the web is bigger
            than it has ever been. And the big push really started with podcasting.

            So no, it is not dead. If anything, it is now part of an ever changing and
            increasing landscape.


            --
            Paul Puri

            The most interesting person you will never meet!

            Blog - http://paulpuri.blogspot.com

            Buy stuff from me - http://podsafegear.com

            Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulpuri

            Friendfeed - http://friendfeed.com/paulpuri


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          • Paul Puri
            ... No harm, no foul. Some people here get worked some times because it is a personal issue. After all, most of us are, were, or will be a podcaster. Or like
            Message 5 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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              On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:51 AM, lyndagroup <boulderboomer@...> wrote:

              > Yikes. I didn't mean to upset anyone with my innocent comment. I'm
              > afraid I didn't make a list of the places I saw the "dead" statement.
              >
              >
              No harm, no foul.
              Some people here get worked some times because it is a personal issue. After
              all, most of us are, were, or will be a podcaster.

              Or like me, I was, then stopped. Started up again, and then stopped. Had a
              false start, and then took a long hiatus.


              --
              Paul Puri

              The most interesting person you will never meet!

              Blog - http://paulpuri.blogspot.com

              Buy stuff from me - http://podsafegear.com

              Twitter - http://twitter.com/paulpuri

              Friendfeed - http://friendfeed.com/paulpuri


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            • Matthew Wayne Selznick
              ... haha! I don t think anyone s upset. -- Matthew Wayne Selznick Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority ************************************ Reggie vs.
              Message 6 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:51 AM, lyndagroup <boulderboomer@...> wrote:
                > Yikes. I didn't mean to upset anyone with my innocent comment. I'm

                haha! I don't think anyone's upset.


                --
                Matthew Wayne Selznick
                Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
                ************************************
                "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
                Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
                http://www.mattselznick.com

                "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
                Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
                http://www.bravemenrun.com
              • Justin Kaiser - Lists - Creative Identity
                If you have one, call me at the number below… Justin Kaiser Creative Identity Group Marketing • Communications • New Media Grand Central (815)
                Message 7 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                  If you have one, call me at the number below…



                  Justin Kaiser
                  Creative Identity Group

                  Marketing • Communications • New Media
                  Grand Central (815) 401-4632 • Skype - jrkaiser

                  Corporate - http://www.CreativeIdentityGroup.com

                  Blogging at http://www.JustinKaiser.com



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                • Kevin
                  Perhaps what you are seeing is backwash from all the big media competitors. I dare say, podcasting is far from dead! Kevin sisco83@hotmail.com
                  Message 8 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                    Perhaps what you are seeing is backwash from all the "big media" competitors. I dare say, podcasting is far from dead!

                    Kevin
                    sisco83@...
                    http://www.gcast.com/u/kjsisco

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: the Encaffeinated ONE
                    To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:38 AM
                    Subject: [podcasters] Podcasting is "dead"?


                    Ok, so I've now seen a few comments in a few places that "podcasting is
                    dead". I'm really wondering where this meme is coming from, what people
                    think triggered a shift from "podcasting will take over the world" to
                    "podcasting is dead".

                    I mean, personally, podcasting hasn't seemed all that dead. If anything,
                    it's in a great state. Sure, some of the first wave of podcasts are moving
                    on, but podcasts come and go. Sure, the rapid, explosive rate of podcast
                    creation may have diminished somewhat (although I'm not convinced of that
                    entirely, and would welcome some actual statistics on that). Sure, the
                    mainstream media have been embracing podcasting as another output medium,
                    but because the cost of entry is still phenomenally low they haven't
                    necessarily edged out the small producer.

                    So, why is there this notion that "podcasting is dead"? I know that,
                    personally, podcasting continues to dominate my media consumption (although
                    I recognize that I'm also completely nuts and atypical in the number of
                    podcasts I consume).

                    Any opinions? Is someone trying to kill podcasting by spreading a rumour? Is
                    this "big media" trying to quash its rival? Is this the tired sentiment of
                    those who have been in podcasting and grow weary of it? Is this the cynical
                    comment by the listener who sees their favourite shows change into something
                    they don't like or disappear entirely?

                    encaf1/MK

                    [image: Encaffeinated!] <http://encaffeinated.ca> *the Encaffeinated ONE
                    * *"It Is by beans alone that I set my mind in motion."*
                    Podcaster. Announcer. Audio Actor. Writer. Programmer. *Geek.*
                    Host of The WEIRD Show <http://theweirdshow.com> and Wandering Out
                    Loud<http://encaffeinated.ca>
                    Crew of The 9th Heroescast <http://www.heroescast.com> and Buffy Between The
                    Lines <http://buffybetweenthelines.com>

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • tom_a_sparks
                    I don t see podcasting as being dead, but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using
                    Message 9 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                      I don't see podcasting as being dead,

                      but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing
                      videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using youtube, Not a
                      downloadalbe format like mp4/wmv etc

                      --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin" <sisco83@...> wrote:
                    • RatbagMedia
                      ... Well the main complication is that podcasting re-invents radio and suffers from the many handicaps that radio has had to deal with for so many decades.
                      Message 10 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I think there is a general feeling that podcasting is dead because it
                        > never became as popular as it should have.
                        >


                        Well the main complication is that podcasting re-invents radio and
                        suffers from the many handicaps that radio has had to deal with for so
                        many decades.

                        Podcasting's problem was in effect the low ebb in radio as a means to
                        communicate stuff to listeners. I think it would be very difficult for
                        people to come in cold to podcasting and start listening if they
                        didn't first harbour a penchant to listening to stuff -- on radio
                        especially.

                        So thats' its burden -- ears only, when the media preferences are now
                        very different. That doesn't mean that podcasting is old hat, only
                        that the vogue is focused elsewhere.

                        I've taken up videoblogging and I prefer it to (audio)podcasting for a
                        number of reasons.

                        (1)Video is treated much better on the web. The housing and
                        presentation platforms(eg: automatic conversion to flash single
                        episode and channel players) leave podcasting in the shade.I can also
                        easily upload and share my files on many free sites -- such as BlipTV
                        -- which offer me no end of service and options. Nothing is like
                        that in podcasting. On Blip too I can also cross post to range of my
                        preferred other sites and also get my videos archived.

                        (2) While I also use YouTube (and can cross post to it via TubeMoghul)
                        the amount of traffic you'll get to your item on YouTUbe can leave the
                        podcasting sites way behind.

                        (3) Video is a major dialogue media on the web when audio is not.
                        Despite a few initiatives such as on ODEO for a time -- it's video
                        rather than audio which people prefer to engage a discussion with.

                        (4) Some of my podcasting was taken up by community radio but my video
                        output is in greater demand than I imagined possible.(it just goes to
                        show you how much poor quality video there is on the web).

                        (5) Video is so much easier to edit and format than audio. It's the
                        graphic cues you get. I can edit up video footage in a twice compared
                        to some of the ongoing hassles with drawing together pieces of audio
                        -- if shot/recorded while out and about..But all my paodcating
                        experience enriches my audio edit for video.

                        (6)However, I don't think video makes a very useful podcasting option
                        -- ie: ran on a feed -- because of file size and customized
                        preferences. Thats' where audio rocks -- and the fact that you can
                        port it away from your computer so easily. The problem is that that is
                        the web's best kept secret -- and while I may listen to hours of
                        podcasts each week no one else I know does.They cannot see past video
                        if they see at all.

                        So I'm shifting my focus a lot. And while I try to offer a mix of
                        media on site -- I am getting much more interest from video production
                        than audio.I also prefer to work in video because it is more
                        descriptive and you don;t have to lay down so much explanation.I can
                        also do video to DVD and present my work in real time gatherings. in a
                        way that audio doesn't suit.

                        I have a portfolio in the way audio doens't allow.

                        Essentially the cultural preference has shifted from auditory inputs
                        to visual ones and it is hard to buck the trend with the density of audio.

                        The other complication was that podcasting aped radio as it tried to
                        reproduce a web version of the AM/FM band. Aping radio when radio
                        could still be had only meant that radio too became podcastable -- as
                        is what has happened.

                        So where do these media newbie others fit in? Where;'s the niche that
                        was sustainable? In fact podcasting fed that by trying to be very
                        regular and very episodic -- the terror of the RSS feed -- instead of
                        maybe slowing down and doing less often but quality products that
                        could live on the wed as a ongoing archive.

                        Podcasting's complication was one of poor quality...that dragged the
                        medium down in popularity. There's heaps of crap video too on the web,
                        but it is much easier to sift through that.

                        That's what video teaches you -- the quest for quality and substance
                        --when video on the web is so often neither, and audio podcasting on
                        the web is still an unknown in that regard.

                        So the format can be a tyranny. This desire to replicate the "program
                        ' entity in time, place and subject.

                        It's the radio trap.

                        I think the way to proceed is to mix media and draw in the best
                        options from video, audio and text. And always always look to your
                        content. I think content rules and, as Marshal McLuhan argued, can
                        always determine your medium -- and vice versa.

                        dave riley
                      • Matthew Wayne Selznick
                        ... The point of any media is to get it into the eyes / ears of the audience. If YouTube is the best way to do that (user familiarity, access on an increasing
                        Message 11 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                          On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
                          > but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing
                          > videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using youtube, Not a
                          > downloadalbe format like mp4/wmv etc

                          The point of any media is to get it into the eyes / ears of the
                          audience. If YouTube is the best way to do that (user familiarity,
                          access on an increasing number of Internet-enabled devices) then so be
                          it. Why download something when you can stream it on your
                          Internet-enabled portable device?

                          Video podcasters aren't fucking up when they use YouTube. They're
                          putting their content in the largest distribution stream available.

                          Now, I think it's smart to be on YouTube *and* offer a downloadable
                          option, as with my Teen Poetry podcast... but to say podcasters are
                          "doing it wrong" by using YouTube is as misguided as any right-wrong
                          "rules" when it comes to this medium.

                          --
                          Matthew Wayne Selznick
                          Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
                          ************************************
                          "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
                          Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
                          http://www.mattselznick.com

                          "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
                          Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
                          http://www.bravemenrun.com
                        • the Encaffeinated ONE
                          ... Interesting... It s a shame that audio-podcasting didn t come a few years earlier, then, before radio became (generally) such a wasteland.. ... This echoes
                          Message 12 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                            On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:40 PM, RatbagMedia <ratbagradio@...> wrote:

                            > --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Dan Hughes <danhughes@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I think there is a general feeling that podcasting is dead because it
                            > > never became as popular as it should have.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > Well the main complication is that podcasting re-invents radio and
                            > suffers from the many handicaps that radio has had to deal with for so
                            > many decades.
                            >

                            Interesting... It's a shame that audio-podcasting didn't come a few years
                            earlier, then, before radio became (generally) such a wasteland..


                            > (1)Video is treated much better on the web. The housing and


                            This echoes a question I made months ago: what's the Youtube for
                            audio-podcasting? Can it be? The general opinion seemed to be that there
                            wouldn't be one, because audio is such a different medium, and the
                            portability of audio trumped the social nature of a share listening space.
                            Also, audio not being an inherently visual medium but the web definitely
                            being one seems at odds.

                            (2) While I also use YouTube (and can cross post to it via TubeMoghul)
                            > the amount of traffic you'll get to your item on YouTUbe can leave the
                            > podcasting sites way behind.


                            I think one of the reasons for this is actually the structure of Youtube:
                            you go to a central place to experience many different productions, carry a
                            profile for your entire experience across all productions, and can
                            share/communicate/rate all the things in one place.

                            There are directories for audio podcasting, but they have not taken on to
                            the same level.

                            There might also be a problem with audio presentation lacking any chapter
                            cues. I can skim through a video and have some idea where I'm skipping to by
                            the frame of video that comes up. In audio, I will likely have to wait
                            longer for a cue as to where it is. While there are chapters in the AAC
                            format (I think that's the one), the process for making them always seems to
                            be extraordinarily arcane and/or limited by platform or software
                            availability.


                            > (3) Video is a major dialogue media on the web when audio is not.
                            > Despite a few initiatives such as on ODEO for a time -- it's video
                            > rather than audio which people prefer to engage a discussion with.


                            This I find strange, because the engagement is mostly textual, and that's
                            just as easy for audio as it is for video. And audio is so much easier to
                            feed back with, as long as you put mechanisms in place like a voicemail line
                            or live call-in feature.


                            > (4) Some of my podcasting was taken up by community radio but my video
                            > output is in greater demand than I imagined possible.(it just goes to
                            > show you how much poor quality video there is on the web).


                            The sorry state of radio stations has lowered the expectations of people for
                            what radio can be like, I suppose. I wonder if the omnipresent position of
                            the CBC here in Canada is what gives me a very different perspective on the
                            matter.. I should imagine that NPR listeners and BBC radio listeners might
                            also be more willing to give audio podcasts a chance..


                            > (5) Video is so much easier to edit and format than audio. It's the
                            > graphic cues you get. I can edit up video footage in a twice compared


                            That's the first time I have heard *anyone* suggest that! Most insist that
                            video is dramatically harder than audio, because you have multiple streams
                            of information which must be patched together as seamlessly as possible.

                            Also, audio manipulation is far easier when one considers non-local
                            contributors; I do Skype chats with people in 4 time zones: we could never
                            do video.

                            Finally, audio allows more easy manipulation for tricks such as multiple
                            voices (or multiple characters with my own voice).

                            (6)However, I don't think video makes a very useful podcasting option
                            > -- ie: ran on a feed -- because of file size and customized
                            > preferences. Thats' where audio rocks -- and the fact that you can
                            > port it away from your computer so easily. The problem is that that is
                            > the web's best kept secret -- and while I may listen to hours of
                            > podcasts each week no one else I know does.They cannot see past video
                            > if they see at all.


                            I'm interested if people have suggestions about how we can reform the
                            "image" of audio, how we can build a good community site like Youtube and
                            also keep the portability.

                            Devices like the iPod Touch and the iPhone give me hope that we can have a
                            richer experience with audio and feedback. Imagine a podcast player
                            application which has a "comment on this" button beside every "play" button.
                            Press it, and voila! A feedback window (with both text window and audio
                            recorder controls) pops up. You put in your comment, and the application
                            delivers it to the feedback address given in the podcast episode itself.

                            If someone could please plug that into iTunes and Juice, we'd capture a lot
                            of the audience and start a revolution, I suspect... After all: that's
                            exactly what RSS did, from what I understand, create a simple technology
                            with an application, let it flow out..

                            Oh, and create a nice, standard Wordpress plugin and centralized YouHere
                            (HearHere? YouListen?) website where a podcast producer can put it all up in
                            one place. Include community functions (commenting, rating, "you may also
                            like X", recommendations, profiles, etc.).

                            If I had time, I would have already built this. There are attempts at this,
                            but they all seem very cumbersome, slow, misdirected energies for the most
                            part.


                            > So I'm shifting my focus a lot. And while I try to offer a mix of
                            > media on site -- I am getting much more interest from video production
                            > than audio.I also prefer to work in video because it is more
                            > descriptive and you don;t have to lay down so much explanation.I can
                            > also do video to DVD and present my work in real time gatherings. in a
                            > way that audio doesn't suit.
                            >
                            > I have a portfolio in the way audio doens't allow.
                            >
                            > Essentially the cultural preference has shifted from auditory inputs
                            > to visual ones and it is hard to buck the trend with the density of audio.


                            The trend had switched from honest presentations to vacuous but slick ones,
                            too, but that's changing..

                            Until we all move to be chipped and deliver info to our brain, we will
                            always hear, and we will always listen to one thing and do another. I don't
                            believe audio is dead and gone, just abused and rusty..

                            The other complication was that podcasting aped radio as it tried to
                            > reproduce a web version of the AM/FM band. Aping radio when radio
                            > could still be had only meant that radio too became podcastable -- as
                            > is what has happened.


                            I think this died away very quickly. Sure, there are still some things that
                            are distinctly radio-like, but most things quickly have diverged away from
                            that, and are diverging more and more. That's not say that they left them
                            behind: radio has many years of hard-won lessons to teach, and ignoring the
                            history and significance of that would probably be foolish..

                            (I would be quick to point out that I don't think that the vast array of
                            empty, robotized, copy-cat stations are worth emulating, but their
                            predecessors are.)


                            > So where do these media newbie others fit in? Where;'s the niche that
                            > was sustainable? In fact podcasting fed that by trying to be very
                            > regular and very episodic -- the terror of the RSS feed -- instead of
                            > maybe slowing down and doing less often but quality products that
                            > could live on the wed as a ongoing archive.


                            I think one of the problems I've had is there is plenty of good stuff out
                            there, and since I subscribe to it all (it feels like), I get behind on all
                            the conversations. And anyone who wasn't there from the beginning is left
                            out or has to run fast to catch up. It's a very good point that we might
                            want to reconsider the linear, building-up nature of the medium of
                            podcasting and consider more drop-in, drop-out or ambient conversation
                            styles, or consider something to be taken at a time wholly different from
                            when it was produced.

                            That said, some audio is bound to be continual, some to be an ongoing
                            barometer of current events or a measure of progress so far in some
                            discussion.



                            > Podcasting's complication was one of poor quality...that dragged the
                            > medium down in popularity. There's heaps of crap video too on the web,
                            > but it is much easier to sift through that.


                            What makes it easier to sift through? Why can those tools not be applied to
                            audio? I think the medium has grown in use to the point where there are
                            almost always good quality programs in many niches, so much so that the
                            lesser quality programs fade away. I don't think that it is easier to sift
                            through the loads of crap video, I think that there are better tools to
                            aggregate the sifting and make the better quality programs rise to the top.

                            That's what video teaches you -- the quest for quality and substance
                            > --when video on the web is so often neither, and audio podcasting on
                            > the web is still an unknown in that regard.


                            It is difficult to compare the medium of web video with the medium of
                            podcasting (audio or video). They are *not* the same, I'd suggest, with web
                            video largely consisting of a mountain of individual videos, largely
                            disconnected from each other, and podcasts consisting of a series of related
                            items. When you consume web video, you are looking for a one-off experience.
                            When you consume a podcast, you are subscribing into a continuing, ongoing,
                            periodic experience. It is a bigger committment to subscribe to a podcast,
                            and that committment must be described and vetted with adequate description,
                            features, commentary, social standing, etc..

                            So the format can be a tyranny. This desire to replicate the "program
                            > ' entity in time, place and subject.
                            >
                            > It's the radio trap.


                            "The medium is the message," calls the ghost of McLuhan. But the medium is
                            still malleable, and before Youtube the web video medium was pretty much
                            crap.


                            > I think the way to proceed is to mix media and draw in the best
                            > options from video, audio and text. And always always look to your
                            > content. I think content rules and, as Marshal McLuhan argued, can
                            > always determine your medium -- and vice versa.


                            Well, that interpretation is a little different from the ones I've heard;
                            from what I understand, he was really suggesting that an awareness of the
                            limitations and opportunities a medium can offer -- how it speaks to the
                            consumer -- is vital to really understanding what you can say, and how it
                            gets received. The content doesn't dictate the medium, but rather it is
                            shaped by it. The podcast episode doesn't shape the podcasting medium, but
                            is itself shaped by the periodic, linear, subscription, continuing, two-way,
                            conversational, direct, interactive nature of the system.

                            Podcasting is not radio; web video is not TV. They learn things from them,
                            but go beyond them. There are limitations, but these are not hindrances,
                            merely signals that we might change the medium if necessary, or embrace them
                            and push them as benefits..

                            This has been a very stimulating discussion! I hope that others will chime
                            in with other suggestions of what we, the producers of podcasts (and also,
                            in most cases, some of the consumers as well) can do to expand or understand
                            our medium..

                            encaf1/MK

                            [image: Encaffeinated!] <http://encaffeinated.ca> *the Encaffeinated ONE
                            * *"It Is by beans alone that I set my mind in motion."*
                            Podcaster. Announcer. Audio Actor. Writer. Programmer. *Geek.*
                            Host of The WEIRD Show <http://theweirdshow.com> and Wandering Out
                            Loud<http://encaffeinated.ca>
                            Crew of The 9th Heroescast <http://www.heroescast.com> and Buffy Between The
                            Lines <http://buffybetweenthelines.com>


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • tom_a_sparks
                            ... I dont want to be charged a dollar a second/Kilobyte to access the internet via my 3G internet-enabled device (I dont have one anyway) ... i understand
                            Message 13 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                              --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Wayne Selznick
                              <mwselznick@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:05 PM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
                              > > but I think that a lot of the so-called podcasters started doing
                              > > videoblogs, but they f*cked up and started using youtube, Not a
                              > > downloadalbe format like mp4/wmv etc
                              >
                              > The point of any media is to get it into the eyes / ears of the
                              > audience. If YouTube is the best way to do that (user familiarity,
                              > access on an increasing number of Internet-enabled devices) then so be
                              > it. Why download something when you can stream it on your
                              > Internet-enabled portable device?

                              I dont want to be charged a dollar a second/Kilobyte to access the
                              internet via my 3G internet-enabled device (I dont have one anyway)
                              >
                              > Video podcasters aren't fucking up when they use YouTube. They're
                              > putting their content in the largest distribution stream available.

                              i understand that view, but the limitions of youtube is what turn me
                              off youtube see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_YouTube,
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube and also the youtube
                              corporation is making money of your video submitions

                              > Now, I think it's smart to be on YouTube *and* offer a downloadable
                              > option, as with my Teen Poetry podcast... but to say podcasters are
                              > "doing it wrong" by using YouTube is as misguided as any right-wrong
                              > "rules" when it comes to this medium.


                              Wasn't the idea of podcasting to officer a downloadble file to be
                              placed on your non-internet-enabled media player?
                            • Matthew Wayne Selznick
                              ... Google makes money off of your content in exchange for infinite bandwidth, near-perfect uptime, and infinite storage. Plus, if I tell someone, My video s
                              Message 14 of 23 , Feb 2, 2009
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                                On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:56 PM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_sparks@...> wrote:
                                > i understand that view, but the limitions of youtube is what turn me
                                > off youtube see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_YouTube,
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_of_YouTube and also the youtube
                                > corporation is making money of your video submitions

                                Google makes money off of your content in exchange for infinite
                                bandwidth, near-perfect uptime, and infinite storage. Plus, if I tell
                                someone, "My video's on YouTube," they know exactly what I mean.
                                Can't count on that if I say, "Have you seen my podcast?"

                                There are plenty of ways smart people make money off their videos.
                                Also, I believe YouTube offers ad service through AdSense to folks who
                                upload videos, so you could even earn money directly.

                                > Wasn't the idea of podcasting to officer a downloadble file to be
                                > placed on your non-internet-enabled media player?

                                No. The idea of podcasting was to deliver files (audio, video, or
                                anything else) via RSS. You still need the Internet to get the
                                content at some point.

                                Has anyone noticed that YouTube is starting to offer downloadable video..?

                                --
                                Matthew Wayne Selznick
                                Author, Podcaster, Social Media Authority
                                ************************************
                                "Reggie vs. Kaiju Storm Chimera Wolf"
                                Signed and numbered limited edition chapbook
                                http://www.mattselznick.com

                                "Brave Men Run -- A Novel of the Sovereign Era"
                                Paperback, Ebook, iPhone, Kindle, MP3 CD, Free Podcast
                                http://www.bravemenrun.com
                              • joshuamcnichols
                                ... This may be true. But I contend that a smaller number of people prefer audio to video because it is a more intimate medium. I know video can portray
                                Message 15 of 23 , Feb 3, 2009
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                                  >
                                  > (3) Video is a major dialogue media on the web when audio is not.
                                  > Despite a few initiatives such as on ODEO for a time -- it's video
                                  > rather than audio which people prefer to engage a discussion with.
                                  >

                                  This may be true. But I contend that a smaller number of people
                                  prefer audio to video because it is a more intimate medium. I know
                                  video can portray intimate things. But audio has a special way of
                                  getting directly into your head. I believe it's because audio can be
                                  akin to the human voice, whereas video has all these layers between
                                  you and the content - a screen, a smaller scale, and the distractions
                                  in the room. Furthermore, I appreciate that audio podcasts allow me
                                  to do other things while I'm listening. Garden, exercise, wash
                                  dishes, rock my baby to sleep.

                                  I work in radio rather than television because I felt the intimacy of
                                  audio, and felt alienated by television. If video is inherently
                                  BETTER than audio, then why doesn't PBS make NPR obsolete? I know NPR
                                  is suffering financially, but it's doing way better than PBS.

                                  Audio is definitely a niche in a world dominated by video. But it's a
                                  time-tested niche with real strengths.

                                  That said, having photos or other web features to draw people into the
                                  audio-only content is critical in a world where web pages are the
                                  portals to audio work. Then once people tune in, the audio can do its
                                  work.

                                  My favorite model for audio content is PRX - the public radio
                                  exchange. It requires registration, but if they eliminated that and
                                  enhanced the ability to embed, they'd have something very much like
                                  you-tube.
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