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podcast stats tracking and ad tracking

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  • Charles Hodgson
    I m trying to get blubrry and podtrac stats working for the podictionary podcast and assume I ll be able to eventually, but a question has arisen in my mind.
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007
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      I'm trying to get blubrry and podtrac stats working for the
      podictionary podcast and assume I'll be able to eventually, but a
      question has arisen in my mind. If I do start including ads in my
      podcast, it's one thing to track downloads, it's another to track
      which ads went in what episodes. Is there a "best practices" here?
      If sponsor A is on Tuesday and sponsor B on Wednesday are we talking a
      trust system here? Surely no one is monitoring the thousands of audio
      tracks that are supposed to be mentioning a particular sponsor.
    • tim@frenchmaidtv.com
      Hey Charles, I ve cced Mark McCrery from Podtrac on this to see what he has to say but my spin is that it s still the early days and I don t think we have to
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007
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        Hey Charles,

        I've cced Mark McCrery from Podtrac on this to see what he has to say
        but my spin is that it's still the early days and I don't think we
        have to worry about that just yet. It will eventually be needed but
        for right now we should be so lucky to have that many advertisers.

        This might be a good thing for us to bring up with the ADM as we try
        to establish industry standards.

        I'll let you know what Mark says.

        Tim

        Tim Street
        Creator/Executive Producer
        French Maid TV
        The Viral Video of �How To�s� by French Maids
        http://frenchmaidtv.com
        Subscribe for FREE at: http://www.frenchmaidtv.com/itunes

        MY BLOG: http://1timstreet.blogspot.com/






        On Dec 4, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Charles Hodgson wrote:

        > I'm trying to get blubrry and podtrac stats working for the
        > podictionary podcast and assume I'll be able to eventually, but a
        > question has arisen in my mind. If I do start including ads in my
        > podcast, it's one thing to track downloads, it's another to track
        > which ads went in what episodes. Is there a "best practices" here?
        > If sponsor A is on Tuesday and sponsor B on Wednesday are we talking a
        > trust system here? Surely no one is monitoring the thousands of audio
        > tracks that are supposed to be mentioning a particular sponsor.
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Todd Cochrane
        Charles For all of our campaigns we have a requirements document that spell out how often the ad has to be run. Then we also provide what we call run sheets.
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007
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          Charles

          For all of our campaigns we have a requirements document that spell out
          how often the ad has to be run. Then we also provide what we call run
          sheets. It is a pretty simple excel spreadsheet that podcasters submit
          each month that simply has the following

          Date
          Media URL
          Blog Post URL
          Ad Spot Time Hack

          This allows us to quickly audit the ad spot and is also provided to the
          media buyer.

          Todd..

          Charles Hodgson wrote:
          >
          > I'm trying to get blubrry and podtrac stats working for the
          > podictionary podcast and assume I'll be able to eventually, but a
          > question has arisen in my mind. If I do start including ads in my
          > podcast, it's one thing to track downloads, it's another to track
          > which ads went in what episodes. Is there a "best practices" here?
          > If sponsor A is on Tuesday and sponsor B on Wednesday are we talking a
          > trust system here? Surely no one is monitoring the thousands of audio
          > tracks that are supposed to be mentioning a particular sponsor.
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert Becker
          Todd, Charles originally mentioned using Podtrac and Blubrry as if to imply he wanted to use both. Is this possible? My podcast launches after the first of
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007
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            Todd,

            Charles originally mentioned using Podtrac and Blubrry as if to imply he wanted to use both. Is this possible? My podcast launches after the first of the year and I'd like to use Podtrac for surveys, reporting, and their media kit, but I'd also like to use Blubrry because I see advantages there, too. How can someone use both services?

            Rob


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Todd Cochrane <ceo@...>
            To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:11:39 AM
            Subject: Re: [podcasters] podcast stats tracking and ad tracking

            Charles

            For all of our campaigns we have a requirements document that spell out
            how often the ad has to be run. Then we also provide what we call run
            sheets. It is a pretty simple excel spreadsheet that podcasters submit
            each month that simply has the following

            Date
            Media URL
            Blog Post URL
            Ad Spot Time Hack

            This allows us to quickly audit the ad spot and is also provided to the
            media buyer.

            Todd..

            Charles Hodgson wrote:
            >
            > I'm trying to get blubrry and podtrac stats working for the
            > podictionary podcast and assume I'll be able to eventually, but a
            > question has arisen in my mind. If I do start including ads in my
            > podcast, it's one thing to track downloads, it's another to track
            > which ads went in what episodes. Is there a "best practices" here?
            > If sponsor A is on Tuesday and sponsor B on Wednesday are we talking a
            > trust system here? Surely no one is monitoring the thousands of audio
            > tracks that are supposed to be mentioning a particular sponsor.
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Todd Cochrane
            Robert We have a number of users using both redirects and have examples on the website on how to use it correctly. The concern though is their is a limit of 5
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 4, 2007
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              Robert

              We have a number of users using both redirects and have examples on the
              website on how to use it correctly. The concern though is their is a
              limit of 5 redirects and the more you add the more you risk. One thing
              that we have done with our system to assure media always gets delivered,
              is that the redirect machine on RawVoices sole job in life is to do
              handle the redirect, it has been optimized extensively and we have
              tested it to insure that the infrastructure scales as the number of
              shows we track stats for

              The redirect machine has a twin backup. If for any reason the primary
              redirect machine goes down the twin takes over, we have a monitoring
              service that watches all of our machines and as soon as it detects a
              issue it automatically redirects traffic to the backup machine.

              The machine that actually gives podcasters their stats is a separate
              box, and periodically it connects with the redirect machine and pull the
              data it has collected and processes it. That machine has it's own twin
              that has the data replicated as well. We have off multiple off site
              backups of course as well.

              Todd..

              Robert Becker wrote:
              >
              > Todd,
              >
              > Charles originally mentioned using Podtrac and Blubrry as if to imply
              > he wanted to use both. Is this possible? My podcast launches after the
              > first of the year and I'd like to use Podtrac for surveys, reporting,
              > and their media kit, but I'd also like to use Blubrry because I see
              > advantages there, too. How can someone use both services?
              >
              > Rob
              >
              > ----- Original Message ----
              > From: Todd Cochrane <ceo@... <mailto:ceo%40rawvoice.com>>
              > To: podcasters@yahoogroups.com <mailto:podcasters%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:11:39 AM
              > Subject: Re: [podcasters] podcast stats tracking and ad tracking
              >
              > Charles
              >
              > For all of our campaigns we have a requirements document that spell out
              > how often the ad has to be run. Then we also provide what we call run
              > sheets. It is a pretty simple excel spreadsheet that podcasters submit
              > each month that simply has the following
              >
              > Date
              > Media URL
              > Blog Post URL
              > Ad Spot Time Hack
              >
              > This allows us to quickly audit the ad spot and is also provided to the
              > media buyer.
              >
              > Todd..
              >
              > Charles Hodgson wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm trying to get blubrry and podtrac stats working for the
              > > podictionary podcast and assume I'll be able to eventually, but a
              > > question has arisen in my mind. If I do start including ads in my
              > > podcast, it's one thing to track downloads, it's another to track
              > > which ads went in what episodes. Is there a "best practices" here?
              > > If sponsor A is on Tuesday and sponsor B on Wednesday are we talking a
              > > trust system here? Surely no one is monitoring the thousands of audio
              > > tracks that are supposed to be mentioning a particular sponsor.
              > >
              > >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Charles Hodgson
              ... and have examples on the ... Thanks Todd, could you give us a URL for those examples please? Cheers Charles
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 5, 2007
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                --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, Todd Cochrane <ceo@...> wrote:
                >
                > We have a number of users using both [blubrry & podtrac] redirects
                and have examples on the
                > website on how to use it correctly.

                Thanks Todd, could you give us a URL for those examples please?

                Cheers
                Charles
              • Charles Hodgson
                Making it work: I never did find the exact instructions on how to make blubrry and podtrac work together in podPress, but I have made them do so. Before I
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 12, 2007
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                  Making it work:

                  I never did find the exact instructions on how to make blubrry and
                  podtrac work together in podPress, but I have made them do so. Before
                  I tell you how, I should say that I expect the means to do so should
                  be improved as new iterations of podPress come out.

                  I have implemented the following using podPress version 8.2 for my
                  podcast but have also looked at version 8.8 for my test site and I
                  think it works the same way. I'll upgrade to 8.8 in the near future.

                  Podpress includes the following instructions under podPress > General
                  Settings > Download Statistics:

                  "Note: Only two stats services can be used together.Libsyn and
                  Feedburner count as well, if your using any of those, they count
                  against the limit of two."

                  But I find this not to be the case. I am using LibSyn and Feedburner
                  and Podtrac and Blubrry and everything does seem to be working.

                  The podPress settings for using Blubrry or Podtrac are radio buttons,
                  meaning that if you choose one, you can't choose the other. So what I
                  did was to choose Podtrac but add the Blubrry URL prefix string to the
                  file location of my MP3 (that's something like
                  http://media.blubrry.com/<showname>/fileocation.mp3).

                  Choosing the Podtrac button adds the Podtrack prefix string to the URL
                  as well.

                  This means that when somebody or somebody's machine calls for the MP3
                  file they are sent first to Podtrac's servers who count their passing
                  and then to Blubrry's servers who count them again, and then to the
                  actual file location for download.

                  This is two redirects but doesn't seem to have caused me any troubles
                  in the few days I've been using it (3 episodes, no diminished download
                  numbers).

                  The reason I don't think the instruction is valid that LibSyn and
                  Feedburner count against the total, is that LibSyn and Feedburner do
                  their tracking in a different way. Feedburner is tracking people who
                  are calling for your feed URL. It is not tracking those calling for
                  MP3 download URLs. It too uses a redirect but since it's a different
                  URL it shouldn't cause any delays for those seeking MP3 downloads.
                  LibSyn on the other hand can pull their tracking data directly from
                  server logs so there is no redirect needed (though I really don't know
                  how they do it).

                  That's how I see it through the fog of technology. I welcome anyone
                  else's corrections to my misinterpretations.

                  And have a happy holiday while you're at it!

                  Charles
                • Stephen Eley
                  ... That doesn t really matter. What matters is how many times the file request for the MP3 file is redirected from one URL to another URL. So if someone is
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 12, 2007
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                    On Dec 12, 2007 8:58 AM, Charles Hodgson <charles@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The reason I don't think the instruction is valid that LibSyn and
                    > Feedburner count against the total, is that LibSyn and Feedburner do
                    > their tracking in a different way. Feedburner is tracking people who
                    > are calling for your feed URL. It is not tracking those calling for
                    > MP3 download URLs. It too uses a redirect but since it's a different
                    > URL it shouldn't cause any delays for those seeking MP3 downloads.
                    > LibSyn on the other hand can pull their tracking data directly from
                    > server logs so there is no redirect needed (though I really don't know
                    > how they do it).

                    That doesn't really matter. What matters is how many times the file
                    request for the MP3 file is redirected from one URL to another URL.

                    So if someone is subscribed to your podcast feed and they make a
                    request for your latest MP3 file, their request may end up
                    transforming along the path roughly along the lines of:

                    [Feedburner]
                    http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/MyPodcast/~5/196474135/MyEpisode.mp3
                    |
                    |
                    V
                    [PodPress]
                    http://mypodcast.com/podpress_trac/web/257/0/MyEpisode.mp3
                    |
                    |
                    V
                    [PodTrac]
                    http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirectmp3?http://media.blubrry.com/MyPodcast/media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                    |
                    |
                    V
                    [Blubrry]
                    http://media.blubrry.com/MyPodcast/media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                    |
                    |
                    V
                    [Libsyn Public URL]
                    http://media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                    |
                    |
                    [Libsyn Final URL]
                    http://cdn.libsyn.com/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3


                    ...Do you see the issue? There are even more services one _could_ add
                    that do redirects, and some blog software does redirecting as well
                    (Wordpress doesn't), and that last Libsyn step actually used to be
                    more complicated. And it is true that some browsers and clients may
                    have limits built in to prevent HTTP requests from redirecting past a
                    certain point. (This is usually in order to prevent circular loops.)

                    That said, I'm really not sure which browser or client has a limit of
                    5, or where that number came from. I'd love to know. It sounds
                    really low to me, and I'm wondering if it was merely someone's (Dan
                    K's?) conservative guess.



                    --
                    Have Fun,
                    Steve Eley (sfeley@...)
                    ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                    http://www.escapepod.org
                  • Todd Cochrane
                    The redirect specification published limit is 5 redirects but we do not recommend podcasters have more than 2 and 3 max Todd ... [Non-text portions of this
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 12, 2007
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                      The redirect specification published limit is 5 redirects but we do not
                      recommend podcasters have more than 2 and 3 max

                      Todd

                      Stephen Eley wrote:
                      >
                      > On Dec 12, 2007 8:58 AM, Charles Hodgson <charles@...
                      > <mailto:charles%40podictionary.com>> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The reason I don't think the instruction is valid that LibSyn and
                      > > Feedburner count against the total, is that LibSyn and Feedburner do
                      > > their tracking in a different way. Feedburner is tracking people who
                      > > are calling for your feed URL. It is not tracking those calling for
                      > > MP3 download URLs. It too uses a redirect but since it's a different
                      > > URL it shouldn't cause any delays for those seeking MP3 downloads.
                      > > LibSyn on the other hand can pull their tracking data directly from
                      > > server logs so there is no redirect needed (though I really don't know
                      > > how they do it).
                      >
                      > That doesn't really matter. What matters is how many times the file
                      > request for the MP3 file is redirected from one URL to another URL.
                      >
                      > So if someone is subscribed to your podcast feed and they make a
                      > request for your latest MP3 file, their request may end up
                      > transforming along the path roughly along the lines of:
                      >
                      > [Feedburner]
                      > http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/MyPodcast/~5/196474135/MyEpisode.mp3
                      > <http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/MyPodcast/%7E5/196474135/MyEpisode.mp3>
                      > |
                      > |
                      > V
                      > [PodPress]
                      > http://mypodcast.com/podpress_trac/web/257/0/MyEpisode.mp3
                      > <http://mypodcast.com/podpress_trac/web/257/0/MyEpisode.mp3>
                      > |
                      > |
                      > V
                      > [PodTrac]
                      > http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirectmp3?http://media.blubrry.com/MyPodcast/media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                      > <http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirectmp3?http://media.blubrry.com/MyPodcast/media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3>
                      > |
                      > |
                      > V
                      > [Blubrry]
                      > http://media.blubrry.com/MyPodcast/media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                      > <http://media.blubrry.com/MyPodcast/media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3>
                      > |
                      > |
                      > V
                      > [Libsyn Public URL]
                      > http://media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                      > <http://media.libsyn.com/media/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3>
                      > |
                      > |
                      > [Libsyn Final URL]
                      > http://cdn.libsyn.com/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3
                      > <http://cdn.libsyn.com/mypodcast/MyEpisode.mp3>
                      >
                      > ...Do you see the issue? There are even more services one _could_ add
                      > that do redirects, and some blog software does redirecting as well
                      > (Wordpress doesn't), and that last Libsyn step actually used to be
                      > more complicated. And it is true that some browsers and clients may
                      > have limits built in to prevent HTTP requests from redirecting past a
                      > certain point. (This is usually in order to prevent circular loops.)
                      >
                      > That said, I'm really not sure which browser or client has a limit of
                      > 5, or where that number came from. I'd love to know. It sounds
                      > really low to me, and I'm wondering if it was merely someone's (Dan
                      > K's?) conservative guess.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Have Fun,
                      > Steve Eley (sfeley@... <mailto:sfeley%40gmail.com>)
                      > ESCAPE POD - The Science Fiction Podcast Magazine
                      > http://www.escapepod.org <http://www.escapepod.org>
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Angelo
                      The actual information they track vs. the HTTP protocol they use to track the information are two different things. All of the services, including Libsyn and
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 12, 2007
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                        The actual information they track vs. the HTTP protocol they use to
                        track the information are two different things. All of the services,
                        including Libsyn and Feedburner, use HTTP 30x requests to redirect the
                        request on to the next URL.

                        To understand exactly what is going on, I recommend installing the
                        Live HTTP Headers
                        (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3829) Firefox Plugin,
                        open the Live HTTP Headers dialog with the capture option enabled,
                        then click the link to your media file to observe all of the HTTP
                        requests that occur.

                        The HTTP RFC previous recommendation for maximum redirects was 5
                        (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2616.html, refer to note under section
                        10.3 Redirection 3xx). This is no longer the standard, as IE's limit
                        is 12 redirects and Firefox's limit is 20. We have no idea what the
                        maximum limit of redirects is for other aggregators or iTunes. For
                        this reason, it is ideal to stay within the previous recommendation of
                        5 redirects or less for maximum compatibility. As someone else noted,
                        the reason for a redirect limit is to prevent the potential endless loop.

                        The other issue with redirects is service reliability. The Blubrry /
                        RawVoice redirect is designed to handle magnitudes of requests and has
                        a backup server ready to handle the requests load in the event there
                        is a service failure. I am sure Podtrac, Libsyn and Feedburner also
                        have taken precautionary steps for handling server loads and prevent
                        down time.

                        If you have an audience for your podcast, I would not recommend using
                        the Podpress statistics. Each podpress statistics request is
                        processed from within Wordpress. This means Wordpress scripts and
                        Podpress scripts are executed with every Podpress statistic counted.
                        This adds an additional burden to your web server. In particular,
                        Podpress has a statistics option that can count the last byte that is
                        served from the file. Though this information is very useful, the
                        result is all file download requests are then processed by a PHP
                        process. A download request can tie up an Apache/PHP thread for an
                        indefinite period, which would limit the number of HTTP requests your
                        server could handle. If you have a decent size audience and you are
                        using this option, you should observe your server come to a crawl when
                        you release your latest episodes. The end result could cause the
                        server to become overloaded and deny other media download and web site
                        requests. It would only take 50 concurrent downloads of a 10MB media
                        file to bring a typical web server to its knees.

                        If you have a large audience, you could still observe the server
                        coming to a crawl, as most web servers are not optimized to serve
                        large media files when the requests may take more than a few seconds
                        to process. For this reason, I would recommend switching to Libsyn or
                        a CDN service. A CDN service will spread out the requests among
                        multiple servers that are designed to serve large files. This comment
                        is off topic, but important non the less.

                        --angelo


                        --- In podcasters@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Hodgson" <charles@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Making it work:
                        >
                        > I never did find the exact instructions on how to make blubrry and
                        > podtrac work together in podPress, but I have made them do so. Before
                        > I tell you how, I should say that I expect the means to do so should
                        > be improved as new iterations of podPress come out.
                        >
                        > I have implemented the following using podPress version 8.2 for my
                        > podcast but have also looked at version 8.8 for my test site and I
                        > think it works the same way. I'll upgrade to 8.8 in the near future.
                        >
                        > Podpress includes the following instructions under podPress > General
                        > Settings > Download Statistics:
                        >
                        > "Note: Only two stats services can be used together.Libsyn and
                        > Feedburner count as well, if your using any of those, they count
                        > against the limit of two."
                        >
                        > But I find this not to be the case. I am using LibSyn and Feedburner
                        > and Podtrac and Blubrry and everything does seem to be working.
                        >
                        > The podPress settings for using Blubrry or Podtrac are radio buttons,
                        > meaning that if you choose one, you can't choose the other. So what I
                        > did was to choose Podtrac but add the Blubrry URL prefix string to the
                        > file location of my MP3 (that's something like
                        > http://media.blubrry.com/<showname>/fileocation.mp3).
                        >
                        > Choosing the Podtrac button adds the Podtrack prefix string to the URL
                        > as well.
                        >
                        > This means that when somebody or somebody's machine calls for the MP3
                        > file they are sent first to Podtrac's servers who count their passing
                        > and then to Blubrry's servers who count them again, and then to the
                        > actual file location for download.
                        >
                        > This is two redirects but doesn't seem to have caused me any troubles
                        > in the few days I've been using it (3 episodes, no diminished download
                        > numbers).
                        >
                        > The reason I don't think the instruction is valid that LibSyn and
                        > Feedburner count against the total, is that LibSyn and Feedburner do
                        > their tracking in a different way. Feedburner is tracking people who
                        > are calling for your feed URL. It is not tracking those calling for
                        > MP3 download URLs. It too uses a redirect but since it's a different
                        > URL it shouldn't cause any delays for those seeking MP3 downloads.
                        > LibSyn on the other hand can pull their tracking data directly from
                        > server logs so there is no redirect needed (though I really don't know
                        > how they do it).
                        >
                        > That's how I see it through the fog of technology. I welcome anyone
                        > else's corrections to my misinterpretations.
                        >
                        > And have a happy holiday while you're at it!
                        >
                        > Charles
                        >
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